Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why are we still working on hydrogen as a fuel? Check this out

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:15 AM
Original message
Why are we still working on hydrogen as a fuel? Check this out
BORON: A BETTER ENERGY CARRIER THAN HYDROGEN?
Graham Cowan


Summary:

http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/Paper_for_11th_CHC.html

Although they have a much taller first step, boron power systems promise to provide emission-free energy from smaller reservoirs than hydrogen can, using fireproof substances. Boria's high specific binding energy and the undemanding nature as cargoes of both it and elemental boron means they will convey energy lightly and compactly, even in small shipments.

If successfully demonstrated, boron-powered vehicles would show the ability to run on public roads without depending on special fuelling stations, since their ash could be sent away and boron could return by any ordinary freight carrier, even by mail. Operators could blast boron pellets with propane torch flames and show that they don't burn, demonstrating that fuel-fed fires during accidents were not possible. The demonstration vehicles could have fuel/ash reservoirs two or more times larger than would be safe on a hydrocarbon-burning vehicle, and since equal energy would require no more than 1.7 times the size, greater speed and range should be possible.

Despite the initially high cost of fuel boron, there seems to be no reason why a small demonstration fleet wouldn't form the nucleus of a quickly growing group of voluntary early adopters, on whose behalf plans for cheaper, larger-scale boron production would quickly be drawn up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. interesting... I think we would be much further along on the alternate
power issue, if Big Auto and Big Oil weren't being allowed to gum up the works with lobbying and predatorial business practices. ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. you could transpose that to include all government.
The first thing we need to do when we get the house and senate back is outlaw lobbyist. IMO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't be a moron, drive boron !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I can see it now, Don't be a Moron, drive a Boron
powered auto that is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. But Boron isn't a renewable resource
Hydrogen isn't an energy source, either-- it's an energy storage medium. You use energy to create Hydrogen.

On the other hand, using Boron for fuel would make Jamaica a major energy player on the world stage.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Does that mean we will invade Jamaica?
I'm signing up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. did your actually read the links
just wondering
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Okay, you caught me not doing my homework.
If I go read it now, can I turn-in my book report and lose half a grade point?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. :-) something like that
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:15 AM by madokie

edit to add: our purpose is not to argue it is to become better informed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Arguments are the third door down on the left. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Okay, Did my homework... looks promising, but...
1) Combustion of Boron requires high-temperatures with high-pressure Oxygen.
2) Boron corrodes combustion equipment
3) Boron needs to be de-oxidized. Article suggests using a nuclear reactor to do this on a large enough scale.
4) Combustion of Boron will produce Nitrogen Dioxide-- which is probably better than Carbon Monoxide anyway?

This Boron thing still sounds promising, I think.

But I can't find anyplace in the article which says we can recycle the consumed Boron ash. Maybe I missed it, since I'll admit that much of it was either over my head, or just more difficult than I had the patience to scrutinize more closely.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Oct 23rd 2014, 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC