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no_to_war_economy Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:47 AM
Original message
I am very aware that Israelis visit this site.
taken from : http://lebanesebloggers.blogspot.com /


I am very aware that Israelis visit this site. So my message to those visitors is that you not only destroyed the dreams of an entire generation of Lebanese (i.e. my own, and probably my children's). But, you guys and your government just shot yourselves in the foot! And I don't mean merely with one shot. No! I mean, you guys got an M-16 rifle, put it on full automatic and shot both your feet to smithereens.

Your reckless shock-and-awe military campaign ultimately turned a political-military organization that you hate into the Arab Worlds hero; and in doing so, you have only increased the influence of your arch-nemesis, Iran. Ultimately, the biggest losers are the Lebanese people, and the hope they manifested in a region characterized overwhelmingly by hopelessness and depression.

Whoohooo! Great Job Folks!

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. and they have turned supporters like me into
into a group who trust them as much as we trust bush&co.
great job, indeed.

oh, by the way, that broad-based, well choreographed and sustained PR offensive is becoming more and more offensive.

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survivor999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Bullies turn me off.
That's all.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. Ditto
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 01:49 PM by lastliberalintexas
A Neo-Con is a Neo-Con, regardless of what country they run or want to invade.


on edit- Though I actually believe the Israelis have a better chance of taking control of their country back from the PNAc/Ne-Cons than we do. Good for them, bad for us. :(
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm guessing that the Israelis have greater things to worry about ...
... than pleasing the rabble at DU. For them, it is survival.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ummm....
*sound of something going over head*

The post isn't referring to DU.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. How delusional one must be...
...to think that the wanton slaughter of innocent civilians (many of which have been children) in a neighboring state can be passed off as self defense or survival. These are war crimes.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. No, it's not. Fighing on someone else's soil, nuclear power, 4th best mili
tary in the world.

Shit, this isn't even close to being about Israel's survival.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Unchecked flow of arms from Syria and Iran...
including long range missiles. Iran forging ahead on nuclear technology. Growing military strength of Hezbullah. All with Lebanon's blessing. (Their feigned innocence fools only the willfully ignorant.)

Sitting in judgment from our perspective is disingenuous at best.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. *judgment from our perspective is disingenuous at best*
And this is applicable to...
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. No, it's not. Bombing innocent civilians who never supported Hezbollah
-- as if children who are now murdered could have ever supported anything -- and claiming that they are using "human shields" is what is disingenous at best.

More like Neoconservative lies being fed to the masses by the warmongering media.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Don't get the impression that I support Israel's level of response.
I fully believe that they are being much too destructive and cavalier about the loss of civilian life. However, that doesn't mean that the threat against them is not real.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. Then you are buying into the PNAC propaganda
Just as Bush and his cronies would like you to do. War makes them an awful lot of money, you know, and Halliburton's shares did take a bit of a drop recently. Poor things.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. they must be using invisible angels and choppers to fly them into
southern lebanon. Perhaps they are using Harry's magic cloak and his broomstick?

Just how does one transport anything when every bridge, road, highway, has been smashed and destroyed by thousands of tons of US high explosives?

Israel has already claimed (and the BBC, UN and others have confirmed) that there is no traffic from Iran or Syria getting into Lebanon. Unfortunately, that includes food, water, diesel fuel for water pumps, medicine, etc.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. And Hezbollah is in the business of manufacturing arms?
Please.
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jayfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
46. Survival Huh? What Was Hizbollah Going To Do, Abduct Everyone In...
Israel, two people at a time? As for the OP, I agree with what he said but I reserve the sentiment for the Israeli government. Propaganda has a way of riling up even the most reserved of populations.

Jay
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. And I wish them well
In their efforts to make a future where they are no longer threatened by bloodthirsty maniacal terrorist groups launching murderous attacks on them.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Which country are you talking about?
;-)
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I was going to ask the same thing. nt
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maalak Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. perhaps Lebanon should have disarmed Hezbollah...
... as was agreed to when Israel left, instead Hezbollah has been allowed to dig in, stockpile weapons and use Lebanon as a supply & staging ground for attacks against Israel...

just a thought.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. And a misguided thought.
Now, instead of dealing with Hezbollah, you have all of Lebanon and all of the Lebanese to fight.

A catastrophic error in judgment.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Are you kidding?
Hezbullah IS the Lebanese army. They make no bones about it. Yes, they have a weak and ineffective official military, but Hezbullah is their bite.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. No, not kidding. But Israel has created twenty more hezbollahs with
Olmert's campaign strategy to carry Lebanon.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
44. True, but it's the nature of the beast.
Life in the Middle East has always been that way, and in all likelihood, will be that way until the end of time.

I don't applaud the actions on either side, but I understand both.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. NOT true
many years ago, egypt and Israel sat and talked, they even made peace.
It is not impossible, it is simply hard work. It takes time, energy, talent and more work. Unfortunately, the bloodthirsty neocons in the US and the Likud think alike. They put their myopic tunnel-vision far ahead of US or regional or Israeli long term interests. And everyone else loses.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. This is all the fault of Israel?
LOL!
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. did I say that? Feith, Perle, and others in the US
push their agenda along as hard as they can.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Brokered by Jimmy Carter.
*
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Another thought...
Hiding missles in civilian neighborhoods. Knowing full well the missle site will be bombed by Israel after a launch. Knowing full well Lebanese civilians will die from the site being bombed. Using these Lebanese deaths as propaganda and human shields. So how much does Hezbollah care about the Lebanese people? They care more about the destruction of Israel. Everyone in Israel is considered a military target to them. Israel, if you are listening, you have a lot more supporters than the media is publishing.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Excellent post! n/t
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. Do you think the British military in WW2 was "hiding behind civilians"
when they put AA guns in London to shoot at Nazi warplanes?

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. The British sent the children to the country so they wouldn't
get killed.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. I said civilians, not children.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 11:43 AM by Marr
I assume your point is that the Lebanese don't love their children. I would disagree, but I'm not arguing that.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Really, how did you assume that point from my post?
I don't see how the Lebanese could have arranged to send their children away considering how these attacks were done by surprise.

My point was that the British didn't put those weapons in London without considering how and preparing for lessening the collateral damage.

And quite honestly WWII was a really different type of conflict than this raid of shock and awe being perpetrated today.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. We did it too
In Hawaii and on our West Coast.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Perhaps Israel should have treated the Palestinians like humans and
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:52 AM by higher class
should have sent visual and factual messages of diplomacy and a desire to live together. Perhaps they should not have continued to press the borders, dominate, and display their hate.

Perhaps they should have been less aligned with inhumans like PNACers before and after they became known by that name.

Perhaps they could have found some way to demonstrate love or tolerance over military weapons and love or tolerance over the friends they chose in the U.S. and U.K. who facilitated their war make-up and actions

They were pressed into the peace that they have displayed by the humans in the U.S. and U.N. who believed in peace. We don't know how genuine their intentions were in hindsight.

There are not than many of us in the 75% of the U.S. who are not religious bigots who will go along with the killers of Israel.

I believe that the leader regime of Israel and the US/UK are fighting the little people.

I am not anti-Semetic, anti-Jewish race, anti-Jewish faith and I have plenty of reasons for making that claim.

My disgust is targeted at the leaders of Israel and those in the military and citizenry who support killing - raw, inhuman, criminal killing, and every Israeli who denies Palestinians, those obsessed with widening the borders of Israel, those who hang their hat with the death seeking leaders of this country and the UK who are working with the barons to own the earth and control the people.

Everyday Christians and Jews deserve better than what the combined killer leaders of the two countries are up to.

The ONLY WAY is peace. The ONLY WAY is the environment for children to thrive.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
54. Perhaps they could have...
...done more to support the infant DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of Lebanon before bombing it out of existance.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
8. Open letter to Bush from an Arab girl
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile...
BY MIRA AL HUSSEIN

2 August 2006


President Bush,

It has become extremely difficult to give you the benefit of the doubt on Lebanon, for you have left no doubt in our minds. We are now certain like many of us have always been that your foreign policy is completely biased towards Israel, and you have made no effort to hide this fact. Just out of curiosity: are they also drafted in Tel Aviv?

It is your choice, Mr Bush, to support Israel, just like it is our the entire Arab and Muslim worlds choice to support Lebanon. You insist that Israel has the right to defend itself. Defending oneself, I believe, is a universal right, not exclusive to Israel.

"The first Qana massacre did not quench the Israeli thirst for blood," it is said, graphically describing yet another Israeli crime against the innocents of Lebanon. In Qana, 57 armless, defenseless civilians died in an Israeli air strike, 37 of them were children. Maybe these numbers dont matter to you, Mr Bush; they are mere numbers of the nameless Lebanese dead. But they matter to more than 200 million Arabs in the Middle East.

I quote our late president, Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, who in 1973 had said, "Arab oil is not dearer than Arab blood." But it seems that Iraqi oil is dearer than American blood. I am somewhat relieved to arrive at this conclusion. At least theres no racism against a certain group of people. Everybody is a potential sacrifice to secure US interests, even if it means sacrificing a whole nation.

No, Mr Bush, we will not accept, nor will we allow the sacrifice of more Lebanese civilians. A ceasefire should have been enforced two weeks ago. Was there a need for 37 children to die before you decided it was time for a ceasefire? How many more, Mr Bush, should die before you decide to stop sending those bloody weapons to Israel? Perhaps we can afford a sacrifice that will rein in your generosity towards Israel permanently.

/continues...
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adriennui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. this "arab girl"
writes like an oxford grad.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. I hesitate to accuse anyone or racism, but your post looks very like it.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 10:57 AM by Donald Ian Rankin
You do know that non all Oxford grads are white men nowadays, don't you? For all we know to the contrary, she may be an Oxford grad.

I don't know if you actually hold the belief that all arab girls write English in a particular way (presumably poorly, since you're contrasting it with the way Oxford grads steryotypically write) or if it just sounds as though you do because you posted in a hurry, but it's a silly and extremely racist one.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. wow...arab girls are not capable of writing?
"writes like an oxford grad"? so what if she is one? does that diminish what she has to say?
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. "Mira Al Hussein is a student of International Studies...
at Zayed University, in Dubai"

www.khaleejtimes.co.ae/ktarchive/031102/editor.htm

"Girl" can mean young woman. And it's possible for women to write well--even the young ones.


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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Yeah, and we all know that Arabs are illiterate morons, right?
Your prejudice is showing.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. The problem wasn't with
"Arab". The problem was with "girl".
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
adriennui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. no, israel has shown the world that it will defend itself
no more passive jews. we learned a lesson from adolph hitler who BTW had an alliance with the mufti of jerusalem.
there's a long history of anti-jewish hatred prior to the creation of israel.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Israel is a neocon run nation, much like the USA,.............
war, destruction, killing and occupation are the ONLY answers to political problems. The current US policies and actions in the ME have rolled back many years of 'progress'. The very thing the bush administration and Israeli government claim they want, democracy and peace, is totally undermined by their own actions, but this is the way of neocon psychopaths. Israel has created their own problems by their ongoing attempts to acquire their neighbor nations lands; occupying another's country has a tendency to really piss people off, as we have learned with Iraq. I hope someday there are sane politicians that can sit down at a table and truly create peace; with the current politicos there is no hope.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. The only reason I'm posting to this thread is because of your post.
If everyone here could see the truth in your post, then maybe we could get about the business of solution rather than criticism of the Israeli people.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. When someone is attacked and their life is threatened . .
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 12:01 PM by msmcghee
. . they become conservative in their outlook at the world. That's why it is morally wrong to attack others - as Hezbollah attacked Israel. Violence breeds conservatives. It starts a chain reaction that ultimately only ends when enough people have died that they lose the will to continue. History has shown that's a large number indeed.

The initiation of aggression is immoral - period. There is no bringing up past wrongs as justification. Each side can claim enough of those to justify killing every person in earth. So forget that. You can't use force to settle disgareements. And groups or states who do that must be destroyed if the world is ever to have peace. You can't screw around with this stuff folks. You can have war or peace - and peace requires the abdication of the intitiation of force to settle disputes. Period.
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JackNewtown Donating Member (703 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Which is why PNAC and PNAC's backers love Israel nt
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. It must be easy to broad brush EVERY Israeli
that makes the eventual slaughter of them easy & justified...

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. Incongrous point here.. but wasn't the power grid utterly destroyed?
Just saying, if it was, how is this person POSTING on the WWW? Don't you need electricity for this?

Hey not like the city of beirut,, under siege we are told, has city lights in the middle of a bombardment no less.

The great job is that he, and his friends, ARE winning the propaganda war...

If power grid is utterly destroyed, how do you post on the web? If telephone liines are gone, how do you post on the WWW?



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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. On CNN yesterday?, there was an interview being conducted over
the phone with a young lebanese woman in an area under heavy fire. The anchor asked her how she was able to use her phone. She was connected to her car battery through an adapter. They have those for computers too.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
27. no one wins in this war
the Israeli citizens have gained nothing but more hatred and insecurity. the Lebanese people have to rebuild their lives and country again. there are no winners in this war.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. When this is all over . .
. . if no-one sets off a suitcase nuke in Tel Aviv, that is - then maybe Lebanon will decide that allowing an army of Israel haters a free pass to set up shop along the border with Israel and attack Israel from those positions inside Lebanon - was not such a bright idea.

It's sad, but at the least Lebenon will have to spend a lot of time rebuilding infrastructure before they'll have any mad-money for anti-Israel projects.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
57. Wow
So much hate. Do you also support Bush and the PNACers vis a vis Iraq? Or do you actually believe that the 2 "wars" are separate issues?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
48. sorta like an Iraqi talking to Americans
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. Locking.
This post is inflammatory.

Fenris
GD Moderator
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