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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:27 PM
Original message
Cheney lied about issuing 9-11 command
Edited on Wed Aug-02-06 11:32 PM by kpete
Cheney lied about issuing 9-11 command
by kos
Wed Aug 02, 2006

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
....................

So they lied to the commission. Any repercussion, or are lies SOP in today's bizarro world?

But it's this that really drives home just how incompetent this administration is, how incapable it is to handle a real crisis, whether it's 9/11 or Katrina.


In his bunker under the White House, Vice President Cheney was not notified about United 93 until 10:02--only one minute before the airliner impacted the ground. Yet it was with dark bravado that the vice president and others in the Bush administration would later recount sober deliberations about the prospect of shooting down United 93. "Very, very tough decision, and the president understood the magnitude of that decision," Bush's then chief of staff, Andrew Card, told ABC News.

Cheney echoed, "The significance of saying to a pilot that you are authorized to shoot down a plane full of Americans is, a, you know, it's an order that had never been given before." And it wasn't on 9/11, either.

President Bush would finally grant commanders the authority to give that order at 10:18, which--though no one knew it at the time--was 15 minutes after the attack was over.

But comments such as those above were repeated by other administration and military figures in the weeks and months following 9/11, forging the notion that only the passengers' counterattack against their hijackers prevented an inevitable shootdown of United 93 (and convincing conspiracy theorists that the government did, indeed, secretly shoot it down). The recordings tell a different story, and not only because United 93 had crashed before anyone in the military chain of command even knew it had been hijacked.

At what feels on the tapes like the moment of truth, what comes back down the chain of command, instead of clearance to fire, is a resounding sense of caution. Despite the fact that NEADS believes there may be as many as five suspected hijacked aircraft still in the air at this point--one from Canada, the new one bearing down fast on Washington, the phantom American 11, Delta 1989, and United 93--the answer to Nasypany's question about rules of engagement comes back in no uncertain terms, as you hear him relay to the ops floor.

10:10:31

NASYPANY (to floor): Negative. Negative clearance to shoot.... Goddammit!...

FOX: I'm not really worried about code words at this point.

NASYPANY: Fuck the code words. That's perishable information. Negative clearance to fire.



No one gave any orders to take action until 15 minutes after the attacks ended. They were all petrified by fear, shocked into inaction. Whether it was Bush reading his frakin' Pet Goat book, or Cheney doing nothing on his part.

Yet after, they created an entire backstory to appear heroic and stoic in the face of danger, when the tapes prove they were cowards, utterly lacking in leadership, much less heroics.

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/2/233731/0525
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe they were petrified with fear of getting CAUGHT?

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Bad Penny Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. amen, bro
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Ooo! I like that pic!
Did you make it?


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Bad Penny Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
87. Yeah, a while back.
I've since gotten better at saturation balance ;)

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Control-Z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. You read my thoughts. n/t
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. If anyone wrote a book called MIHOP -
THAT should be it's cover. Your best one, IMNSHO.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. Those who may still think the actions of this administration are
ALL the results of stupidity...I feel are gravely wrong.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. BUT, there are only two possible explainations
and neither look good.


The inaction was either due to incompetence and stupidity, or was intentional.

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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Stupid?
Whether stupid or intentional, Halliburton and the Carlyle Grouup make $$trillions of taxpayers dollars.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Ding!
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
79. Incompetence rarely works so beautifully in one's favor!
I wish all my screw-ups lined my pockets so effectively.
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PurpleChez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Beautifully put! Bloody brilliant.
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daveskilt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #49
100. Im with Gore Vidal on this one -
Bush and cheney are not smart enough or organized enough to have planned and executed the whole thing without getting caught. They selected and grew one of the many plots out there and carefully moved obstacles out of its way. They may even have provided support to it covertly. They made it happen but didn't come up with it or plan it. is that mihop or lihop?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #100
105. They are just puppets/fall guys for the military industrial complex
and the petroleum industry. The lizards who worked out the plans are behind the scenes.


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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. That is exactly it, I remember the day real well as if it was yesterday
the crawford coward was earning his coward wings. dead eye wasn't to be seen or heard
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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hope the Secret Service has an arsenal of fire extinguishers
to put out all those pants on fire.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. And toupees n/t
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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. After seeing your graphic,
I thought, Burn Baby Burn. HA!
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
52. I hope the Secret Service can do its duty....
...to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
112. Hear, hear! Chimpy and Cheney themselves are the greatest domestic
enemies of the Constitution we've seen in the history of this country.
They have NO respect for the Constitution; they are in violation of oaths of office they had no right to take, never having been elected...
Impeach, hell....they ought to be executed for treason.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Depends Administration.
a shitstain on history.
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Johnny Noshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
95. I don't know
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 04:57 PM by Johnny Noshoes
if we can ever completely wash this shitstain out.


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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. Did the tapes say anything about what the 'Happy Hoooligans' were doing?
was Dakota scrambled?
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never_get_over_it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. That freak lies every time he opens his mouth
never foget when he debated John Edwards - two of the biggest whoppers - paraphrasing here - I have never said Saddam was connected to Al Qaieda - back then the freak said it about three times a day and the other whopper was that he said he had never met John Edwards before that night

THEY LIE ALL THE TIME ABOUT EVERYTHING
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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. man these guys really are dumb, we give them too much
credit. Maybe it is that the rest of america is so lazy that they don't realize these guys are just dumb and that they aren't trying to screw up our elections. But you know, they just might be playing us all for fools, who the hell knows anymore?
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
54. I don't think they're dumb ...
... they're just so used to lying, they can't stop.

:spank:
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. because our
pandering lapdogs, the MSM, let them get away with it.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. The 9/11 Commission knew Cheney was lying about that morning
says a 2-27-06 Newsweek article.

{N}one of the staffers who worked on this aspect of the investigation believed Cheney's version of events.

A draft of the report conveyed their skepticism. But when top White House officials, including chief of staff Andy Card and the then White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, reviewed the draft, they became extremely agitated. After a prolonged battle, the report was toned down. The factual narrative, closely read, offers no evidence that Cheney sought initial authorization from the president. The point is not a small one. Legally, Cheney was required to get permission from his commander in chief, who was traveling (but reachable) at the time. If the public ever found out that Cheney gave the order on his own, it would have strongly fed the view that he was the real power behind the throne.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11436302/site/newsweek/page...
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Okay, I'll ask
Has KOS has lifted the moratorium on 911 talk only if that discussion centers on incompetence and limits the bounderies of the discussion?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. very astute question. evidently, yes.
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HongKonger Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Only the almighty one
The leader of the Kos cult can speak about 9-11. Or one of his chosen minions...
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Sure sounds like they are trying to spin the story
that it was just incompetence and stupidity on the part of BushCo rather then the deliberate refusal of top administration officials to respond to an ongoing attack.

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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
78. It's the admin's ardent desire to be seen as incompetent that makes
me believe in MIHOP. Who in the hell embraces "incompentency" unless the only alternative is far, far worse?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #22
117. I think you're confusing two different things.
The INTELLIGENCE about a coming attack was contained in BushCo. They knew. Did nothing. Is it possible they even promoted and paid for the attack? With these bastards, yes. I don't think so, but I don't rule it out, either.

What happened early morning on 9/11 was happening to unprepared, UNWARNED professionals. People who were NOT in the intelligence loop of BushCo. They were caught flat-footed with inadequate equipment proving that America was completely vulnerable to attack by anyone. THAT was a FUBAR SNAFU idiocy between airlines and air force and air control and NORAD and all those who should have known how to communicate immediately with each other and didn't. And these people did NOT want to shoot down an American airliner. Especially since they were so pathetically unclear which airliner needed to be shot down.

It's apples and oranges. One is pretty much treason. The other is inadequacy and complacency that existed over many administrations, both Republican and Democratic. Every Congress is responsible for our lack of response on that morning. We were not ready. All our myths of adequacy were smashed. We still refuse to face that. Our professionals SHOuLD have been able to thwart any attack, even one by our own government. They weren't. Focusing on the possible (even likely) upper echelon conspiracy continues to leave us vulnerable to what is a completely separate problem. Our equipment, communications, training, NOTHING was able to cope.

And what did we do about it? Created the worthless, money-eating Department of Homeland Security which has done NOTHING to fix any of the problems that existed on that morning. So anyone with a spark of creativity can still attack the United States with one caveat: 9/11 was so spectacular that anything less lethal will look inadequate and trifling.

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. That was my take...
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. They weren't under oath
were they? Didn't they wheedle their way of that, in other words refuse?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
51. No, they were not under oath.
As a matter of fact, they did not testify before the panel. They were not under oath and there was to be no recording made of the session nor a stenographer in the room. Bush & Cheney insisted on being together, so that they could better keep their story straight.

They answered questions from the 10 member commission in the oval office. Participants were permitted to take handwritten notes.

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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
90. That Whole Aspect
Of the "Commission"'s "investigation" was really, really slimy. WHY THE HELL DID THEY HAVE TO TESTIFY TOGETHER?

AND NO OATH?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #90
114. Dubya said he wanted the commissioners to see their body language.
Seriously, Junior said that he wanted the commissioners to see his and Darth Cheney's body language at the same time, and that's why they refused to meet with the commissioners unless they could be together.

The president dismissed suggestions that he appeared before the panel with Cheney to coordinate stories.

"If we had something to hide, we wouldn't have met with them in the first place," Bush said. "We answered all their questions."

Bush said it was important for him and Cheney to appear together so that commission members could "see our body language... how we work together."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/29/bush.911.comm... /
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Bushladen Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
110. And for
Those of us who have F 9/11 watch some of the trailers and see and hear Bush say to the media the session "Was enjoyable". How can talking about the tragedy of 9/11 be enjoyable?
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-02-06 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I thought they had a standing directive and didn't require an order from
the President or the Vice-President to shoot down a passenger jet airplane?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. do you have anything that supports your contention?
and a belated welcome to DU. :hi:
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
60. It's been posted on DU -
a link that shows that shootdown authority was passed to the president and Sec Def only (in summer of 2001).

Hopefully another DUer will have more info.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. Totally IGNORING the fact that the VP is not LEGALLY "in the loop".
Under US law (AKA "the Constitution"), the Vice President of the U.S.A.
is officially in charge of NOTHING!

The VP has the duty to break tied votes in the Senate,
and that's it. Other than that, he actually has less
legal "authority" than your local DOGCATCHER.

In a SANE USA, a USA that actually cared to enforce ALL the laws,
Cheney's admissions would be grounds for the IMPEACHMENT
of George W. Bush.
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
88. Um, Yes, Thank You!
These guys use incompetence as a mask because THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #88
109. That is a good way of putting it.eom
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Cheney telling the truth should be covered as news!
At least then all his other utterances would be largely ignored.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
23. Yeah, but all politicians lie right?
Let's just get over it, like they told us to 6 years ago. Its just some treason, tyranny, war and chaos, don't jam our groove.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
24. Hey, THEY made the movie that shows Cheney
giving the nod to shoot down flt 93 in their OWN MOVIE, created by a Canadian director - the movie (which I can't remember the name of right now), was completely laughable, they used the guy from South Park directors series "That's My Bush!" to play Bush in the film..

I had it on tape but gave it to someone else to watch and never got it back.

They have hilarious scenes in it, like Dumsfeld sitting around his Pentagon office doing NOTHING with the clock behind him, then the HIT, and THEN he's outside running around holding IV bottles chasing stretchers, like that's all he had to do that morning.

But the best scene was the AF ONE taking straight off into the sky, ARI saying to Bush - "We have a Threat against the AF One.." The Fake Bush actor hitches up his belt, and very seriously says, "Is it a CREDIBLE THREAT?" while they all nod.. Retarded film making, black humor if they knew what they were doing..

Gonna have to find that movie now and figure out the title, if you ever get a chance to see it don't miss it, they were actually trying to INSTALL Propaganda EARLY.

They even charged MOST of the costs of the film to CANADA using a canadian director, cheating assholes..

I'll find the title and post it later if anyone else doesn' first.. a real classic CRAPPY propaganda film, the worst I've seen, laughable..
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
63. Was it "D.C. 9/11"?
That movie that was shown on Showtime, or one of those cable channels?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. this too shall pass.......
nothing will come of this because there isn`t any republican that will admit that bush and cheney lied to the american people. politicians no longer serve the people of the united states they only serve themselves
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Bushwick Bill Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
26. WATCH THE MINETA TESTIMONY.
This refutes the BS that shootdown orders were issued, but were too late. Nothing should have hit the Pentagon 35+ minutes after the second tower was hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=Norma...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7Vs7KNlpXU&search=Norma...
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. Bush's Pentagon couldn't muster a pea shooter with 35 minutes
to get some kind of defense for the freaking PENYAGON and the nation's capital city.

That's what you get with an AWOL stooge as "commander in chief" and a jerk with Five Military Deferments (Dick Shotgun Cheney) in charge.

INCOMPETENT REPUBLICON CHICKENHAWKS
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Mineta testified Cheney said: ''Of course the orders still stand...!''
..."Have you heard anything to the contrary?!"

What could Sneer be talking about?

From BlogCritics.org:



Clip #1: Lee Hamilton questions Mineta

Windows Media (1.81MB) / Real Media (1.83MB) / Quicktime (13.96MB)

Mineta responds to an opening question by Commissioner Hamilton about the events in the PEOC and an alleged shoot down order. He describes a conversation between Cheney and a young man:

Mineta: "During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President...the plane is 50 miles out...the plane is 30 miles out....and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president "do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??"
Mineta explains that while he had not known it at the time, he had surmised that the standing order the young man asked about must have been a shoot down order. Hamilton, looking a bit confused, seeks clarification about which flight the conversation was regarding, and Mineta once again clarifies that it is the flight that hit the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. on September 11.

There was good reason for the quizzical expression on Hamilton's face. Secretary Mineta had thoroughly trashed previous accounts of the PEOC activities that had been published in the press.

CONTINUED with working LINKS...



DRUNKEN COKE-WHORE
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. i remember specifically bush did not give the command
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:23 AM by seabeyond
that was one of the issues. was either rummy or cheney,.... i am thinking rummy that ultimately made the command which was a no no..... so regardless of the rest of the story, that is the changing of history this adm does so consistantly. bush was flying around NOt being commander in chief, president or decider. he didnt decide shit as he was high in the sky peeing his pants
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. so where is the outrage of moderates?
the anger?

a blow job that is no one's business gets indignant responses from moderate politicians --

but a lie from the VP about flight 93 and shooting the airliners in defence of the country?

and another thing -- don't tell me that belt personages DIDN'T know cheney lied.

i won't believe it.
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. What moderates? Only us Lunatic Lefies remain to oppose the Great Evil...
everyone else is either co-opted, coerced, or cowering in fear. ONE frigging Repuke is all it would take; just one, to stand up and demand, "WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT?" Never happen.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. i know i'm being a little flip.
but i firmly believe there are no moderates -- and i firmly believe that there were people in the senate or the 9-11 commission or where ever -- who knew that cheney was lying -- and because they didn't want to rock the boat said nothing.
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
91. No, Man, Right On
There are those who know right when they see it, and those who know wrong. There is no middle in this thing. The truth is blinding us.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
29. Bush's shadow..
.. looms over all of us and everything, consuming.

We all seem to get lost in it.,, or else it's our shadow too,
collective America's... which is more likely.
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
93. Yes, He is a One-Man Plague
This is a really tragic time for the United States and the world. This small fraction of a man, so embarrasing and shameful, never should have been allowed anywhere the White House. He has never even been remoately qualified. And so we have the complete opposite of a good president, a really, really bad one.

"What in the world prepared you to be the commander in chief of the largest superpower in the world? In your background, Mr. President, you apparently were incurious. You didn't want to travel. You knew very little about the military. . . . The governor of Texas doesn't have the kind of power that some governors have. . . . Why do you think they nominated you? . . . Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that the country is so up?"

Mike Wallace
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
30. Just told a guy I work with about this article. You know what he
said. He said...

"We should have gone in and nuked all those sand niggers, that would have solved it all."

I told him he was terrible. He is a big boss with the company. I could be in trouble. I don't care.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Holy shit!
Sand niggers? What's the matter with that asshole? I'll tell you, if he said that where I work and someone reported him, he'd be out the door before the end of the day.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. I am so PO'd
On September 11 and the days and weeks immediately thereafter, I endured multiple remarks from conservative associates in the vein of, "thank God Bush and Cheney were in office instead of Al Gore." The remarks generally included a reference to the "balls" that Cheney and Bush had as opposed to a "ball-less" Al Gore.....

as it turns out, Bush and Cheney were not only ball-less but also lying sons of bitches....

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
32. come here, call in and tell her!
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
33. Anyone know what codewords they're talking about in the tape?
NASYPANY (to floor): Negative. Negative clearance to shoot.... Goddammit!...

FOX: I'm not really worried about code words at this point.

NASYPANY: Fuck the code words. That's perishable information. Negative clearance to fire.

And who gave negative clearance to shoot? I haven't listened to the tapes yet but I'm confused.
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
99. I believeTarpley addressed this during the CSPAN 9/11 panel the other day
The "code words" had to do with the access codes for launching a nuclear attack.
More info: http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/cspans-coverage-of-am...
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
36. YEA DU!! This is on the front page baby!
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
38. Remember in Clarke's book?
Someone kept hanging up a phone that was supposed to be left open. Clarke asked someone, "What (**&)*^* keeps hanging up?" and the answer was, "That'd be the Vice President."
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
94. Sinister Details are Real
Talk about a rabbit hole. What I can't understand is anyone who DOESN'T cock their head at some of this shit and say, what the f---?!
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT MADE CLEAR BY THE CORPORATE MEDIA
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 10:16 AM by jackstraw45
She was a "Runaway Bride!"



Can't you figure out how IMPORTANT that is?

I mean, in a 3 day period, CNN interviewed FIFTEEN different experts about the "runaway bride" - how can they be expected to talk about the boring Vice President and crimes against the constitution?

:sarcasm:
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #40
72. Oh baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are SO many ratfucks I will never forgive. Starting with the so called journalists of the so called media who are part of the crime too. Man I'm getting knee jerk emotional and pissed. That runaway bride story was the day I KNEW all we are fed is utter propaganda. It's not just about ratings. It's about what they know is acceptable. And the truth of what's happened and is happening in the United States of America isn't on the list.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
41. Whew! That's a relief!!
I thought he had told the truth.
Now that I know he lied about that too, my faith in humanity is restored.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
42. They weren't petrified with fear. They were waiting until the mission was
accomplished.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Ding!
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daveskilt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #50
101. another correct answer - 10 points and a glass of victory gin
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purplecat Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
43. I don't believe these tapes are genuine!!!
Think about it... NORAD went to the commission and lied through their teeth, that much was clear to the members of the commission who even considered refering them for criminal charges (but eventually dropped that ball too, recognizing the precedence of their whitewashing duties). So knowing the military was lying, they subpoenaed for the tapes. The military fought the subpoena for a long time..., but eventually gave in... since they had all the time in the world to create fresh tapes based on the existing tapes, with time stamps matching the story they wanted to sell. People express puzzlement that the military did not give the tapes right away since it puts them in a better light than their own initial account... Dudes, get a clue, the reason they did it that way is that it takes time to create the fake tapes....
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. fake tapes???
or fake post???
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purplecat Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #45
104. fake post???
dude, if you can read the post it is not fake even if you disagree with what I suggest.

these tapes are indicating flight 93 was already down before any order to shoot it down could have come. That's what they want joe-public to conclude, to invalidate MIHOP. some conclude that cheney has thus lied about discussing the possibility of downing the plane. however, remember that the field of debris for flight 93 was several miles long, which can only be explained by the plane breaking up in the air (btw the crash site shown to the public has no plane debris whatsoever...), thus contradicting the official version, as do the local eye-witnesses.

Cheney lying on that point also contradicts Clarke's testimony. What would be Clarke's incentive to lie in this case? By contrast, these tapes shift the blame for the attack on supposedly clueless NORAD.

Remember also that the pentagon has automatic batteries to shoot down incoming missiles and planes. That defense system had to be deactivated during the attack, and that's cheney's stand down order being questioned by an aide as the plane approaches the WH & pentagon, as witnessed by Mineta.
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. Welcome to DU, cat! nt
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. I agree that's a possibility.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:59 PM by mirandapriestly
There is a company named Avid Technologies that edited the airport video with Atta in it, they also do audio. The company was bought by EMC, a defense (& commercial) contractor owned by the major contributor to Cheney. So, it is totally possible.

Oh, and welcome Purplecat!!!
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confludemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
46. Read "Bullshit Artist" by Ron Schalow, sums it all up nicely
and with sardonic, bitter humor and the book is good for passing around to colleagues and friends: http://www.bullshitartist.net/
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. The Cheney's were busy interfering with people in the Command center.
Lynn Cheney kept putting up the volume on CNN news, which made it difficult to hear other open lines, and Dick Cheney was busy hanging up on important connections with other government agencies. At least that's why I remember from my read of, "Against All Enemies." \

If so, I think it's safe to ask if Cheney was intentionally interferring to cover someone's ass.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. Right. More here about that-- plus Josh Bolton on the Cheney shoot-down
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 11:26 AM by chill_wind
orders

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=152184...




Counterterrorism tsar Richard Clarke describes the people in the PEOC as decidedly more political than those in his bunker below the other wing of the White House. In addition to Cheney and his wife, most of the day the PEOC contains National Security Adviser Rice, political adviser Mary Matalin, Cheneys Chief of Staff I. Lewis Scooter Libby, Deputy White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten, and White House Communications Director Karen Hughes. Clarke is told later in the day by someone else in the PEOC, I cant hear the crisis conference because Mrs. Cheney keeps turning down the volume on you so she can hear CNN ... and the vice president keeps hanging up the open line to you. Clarke notes that the right-wing ideologue Lynne Cheney frequently offers her advice and opinions during the crisis.



"(Between 10:10-10:15 a.m.): Cheney, Told That Flight 93 Is Still Heading to Washington, Orders It Shot Down"

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/item.jsp?item=a1000s...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5251871/site/newsweek/
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. There is no excuse for Dick Cheney to be hanging up on open lines.
Knowing now what we know about his interference with the truth, is there no doubt in anybody's mind that Cheney & Rumsfeld intentionally interferred with a proper government response to this attack?
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prole_for_peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. Best case: complete incompetence.
They did NOTHING until it was all over. Georgie sat there stunned, Cheney went into the bunker. They had their chance to be heroic and resolute and blew it; then Rove started making it look like they practically grew to Kong-size and climbed on the WTC to swat the planes away.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #68
81. Don't forget. Rummy supposedly twiddled his thumbs, then played paramedic.
General Myers stayed in a meeting to discuss the future threat of terrorism.

Meanwhile, Representative Goss and Senator Graham, then the respective heads of the House and Senate intelligence committees, met with the head of the Pakistani ISI, General Mahmoud Ahmad -- the same guy who ordered the transfer of $100,000 to the supposed 9/11 ring-leader, Mohammed Atta.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. We need to hire the swiftboaters to do some PR damage on their asses.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
57. LIHOP or
MIHOP

I think I'm leaning towards LIHOP.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
59. Cheney signed a Speaking Statement..
kind of like Bush's Signing Statements. For Cheney this means that he can freely lie like the sack of rat infested pig sh*t that he is....
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
64. Cheney Lied. When do impeachment hearings start??
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Clinton can be impeached for lying...AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!! I'm so sick of this shit!!!!!
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
66. i thought kos had issued a fatwa banning all discussion of 9-11?
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. FOX: I've never seen so much real-world stuff happen during an exercise.
FOX: I've never seen so much real-world stuff happen during an exercise.

Sums it up...I think we ALL are trying to separate the real-world stuff from a fantasy of the last five years...
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
69. What can you expect from a guy
who's idea of hunting is shooting birds set up for him.

His whole "tough guy" image is a lie...he's just a a-hole chikenhawk.

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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
70. Get back to me when Cheney tells the truth...
or anybody else in this administration for that matter. Now THAT will be a headline.
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idgiehkt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
71. Doesn't this totally contradict Richard Clarke?
I don't understand the timeline. Clarke said that Cheney was in the room "when a decision was made about whether to shoot down a plane"; the thrust of his remarks was that it was odd the amound of power Cheney had. This was when his book came out a couple of years ago, and he made this comment in an interview. He seemed to imply that flight 93 was shot down. I am so confused now.
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MAX 1 Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
73. Q U E S T I O N
Ok, Ok,

It has now been confirmed that there were lies involved in the cover-up commission. Lie to shield the commission from the truth. That being that NORAD and the FAA dropped the ball. I mean really, think about it people.

WE KNOW:
~ Homeland Security STILL can not get the foreign passport issue figured out. Just last week several borders were crossed with FALSE passports. 9/11 hijackers had falsified passports too. Several that had incomplete information.
~ That NORAD's radar can not distinguish location and type of plane. Only a blip from a transponder. So any hijacked plane is dependent upon HOW the FAA communicates with NORAD. Thus making the FAA our first line of defense, not NORAD.

Q U E S T I O N:
DO YOU SLEEP BETTER NOW(post 9/11)? KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE ATTEMPTED OBFUSCATION FROM THOSE IN CHARGE OF OUR NATION'S FRONT LINE OF DEFENSE? DO YOU FEEL MORE CONFIDENT KNOWING THAT THE GOP, IN CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT THEN, IS MORE CAPABLE OF HANDLING DIFFICULT SITUATIONS NOW?
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One Sweet World Donating Member (323 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Not at all
MAX 1, I'm sure your question is hypothetical but I do not feel safer one bit. I just pray that our homeland is not attacked again by another terrorist in the near future seeing as how our federal government does not work well in crisis situations (katrina!).

I would say the state and local agencies and first responders are the ones to be grateful for. They did a great job in New York recently in uncovering the tunnel terrorist plot. But alas, the government is reducing funding for the largest, most at-risk cities to support these guys. Don't you just love the logic?!
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
74. Is this not the likely scenario??
Bush - Cheney - and all the rest were unable to keep the different versions of the cover story in place.

We know that Cheney lied here.

We also know Bush gave a televised statement saying he saw the first plane hit the WTC on television before he went in to read "My Pet Goat" --which has been proved impossible since the video of the first plane hitting WTC had not been telecast at the time Bush said he saw it, and remarked "that is one bad pilot."

The truth has not reached the surface, and this is more than mere incompetence.
We see incompetence every day when Bush opens his mouth.

This is a botched attempt to "float" a cover story.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
75. Make no mistake. All of it was cold and calculated. MIHOP.
Those guys use incompetence as an excuse when it suits them. Which shows just how cold and calculating they can be. Don't forget how * ate cake and strummed a guitar while New Orleans drowned! Those bastards don't give a damn about anything but themselves! :grr:

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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
76. I hope everyone in Congress realizes that Dick Cheney hates them
one and all, be they Dem or Rep. All he wants is the power to rule over America, anyone who gets in the way is a 'terrorist' or helping the 'terrorists'.

The truth is like a shark - lie, lie, lie, lie but eventually the truth catches up and swallows you whole.

Couldn't happen to a nicer asshole IMO.
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #76
89. I Don't Know if Hate is the Right Word
Don't you have to be human to hate?

Unfortunately the dustbin of history is too full for these fuckers, dare I say.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. I think it is hate, who else tells a Senator to go fuck himself?
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 05:14 PM by Rex
In Congress? I believe contempt would be more appropriate, but the underlying motivating behavior is hate. Notice how Cheney said it while presiding over the Senate, that should really raise eyebrows.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3699-200...

"Fuck yourself," said the man who is a heartbeat from the presidency.
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
77. "Negative clearance" is not a default. It is an order itself.
And what does an order to shoot have to do with an order to scramble and intercept? NOT ONE OF THE POTENTIAL HIJACKS (except Delta 1989?) was even INTERCEPTED by a fighter jet. So why the focus on whether or not there was a shoot down order, other than to confuse the issue?

Who gave the orders to NOT intercept?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. Check this out, Cheney was a busy boy that day.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911/norad.htm

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the
Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as
Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the
9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got
down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice
President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane was not shot down are we to take it that the orders were to let the plane find its target?

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lilypad_567 Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
84. help
some lady just call me and ask me if i have ever use my phone to call to iran, do that mean that i am being spy on, i do get my internet from aol, and phone service from verzion. should i cancel aol, or verzion, or both. is there a way to report this to the government?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
86. ttt !!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
92. Cheney told a lie?
I'm shocked I tell you!

:sarcasm:
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bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. Seriously...
I think the bigger news would be if there was something this admin. has been honest about. :eyes: Now THAT would be a headline.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
96. Final 9-11 story will be "Incompetent Bush-Cheney Let It Happen...
...then Spent the Next Six Years Trying to Make Political Capital Out of Their Own Mistakes."
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daveskilt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. they let it happen TO make political capital
there was no mistake.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
103. hmmm All our tinfoils hats are becoming so fashionable.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
107. Kos on 9--11? thought that was verboten
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MervinFerd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
108. Karl (HEARTS) the Conspiracy Hobbyists.
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 09:39 PM by MervinFerd
Take a devastating report on Admin incompetence. Mix in a bunch of Bullshit Paranoid Consiracist nonsense.

VOILA!

NOBODY WILL LISTEN TO THE SERIOUS REVELATION!

Funny how this always works this way.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-03-06 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
113. Also see NYT article: NYC and Wash DC were UNPROTECTED on 9/11 - LINK:
Edited on Thu Aug-03-06 11:41 PM by Nothing Without Hope
More lies gradually being exposed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/03/us/03norad.html?_r=1&...
August 3, 2006

New Tapes Disclose Confusion Within the Military on Sept. 11



By PHILIP SHENON
WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 Newly disclosed tapes offer evidence of the widespread confusion within the military as the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks were being carried out, further undermining claims by the Pentagon that it moved quickly to try to intercept and shoot down one or more of the hijacked jets.

When matched with the timeline of the attacks, the tapes make clear that information about the hijackings was slow to reach the military on Sept. 11 and that much of the information that did reach Air Force commanders was faulty.

(snip)

The tapes demonstrate that for most of the morning of Sept. 11, the airspace over New York and Washington was essentially undefended, and that jet fighters scrambled to intercept the hijacked planes were involved in a fruitless chase for planes that had already crashed.

(snip)

Members of the {9/11} commission said the tapes demonstrated that the Pentagons initial account of its actions on Sept. 11 was wrong and that some military officers might have intentionally provided false statements to the commission.

(snip)


At what point will the American people begin to wake up to what really happened on 9/11? These events could not have happened without deliberate witholding of air defense, which would have required orders from high levels indeed. WHEN will this be questioned? It certainly wasn't questioned by the 9/11 Commission.
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mikeyj84 Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
115. Cheney Lied!
And still no one has brought them up on impeachment charges or held them accountable.
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mikeyj84 Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-04-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
116. Cheney Lied
Sometimes I feel like this administration plotted 9-11 to justify their war in Iraq.
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