Hitchens on Gibson's anti-semitism (and more)

[sgxnk]

frigging hilarious and brilliant

http://www.slate.com/id/2146880/


"was just in the middle of writing a long and tedious essay, about how to tell a real anti-Semite from a person who too-loudly rejects the charge of anti-Semitism, when a near-perfect real-life example came to hand. That bad actor and worse director Mel Gibson, pulled over for the alleged offense of speeding and the further alleged offense of speeding under the influence, decided that he needed to demand of the arresting officer whether he was or was not Jewish and that he furthermore needed to impart the information that all the world's wars are begun by those of Semitic extraction.

Call me thin-skinned if you must, but I think that this qualifies. I also think that the difference between the blood-alcohol levels—and indeed the speed limits—that occasioned the booking are insufficient to explain the expletives (as Gibson has since claimed in a typically self-pitying and verbose statement put out by his publicist). One does not abruptly decide, between the first and second vodka, or the ticks of the indicator of velocity, that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are valid after all."

[ShortnFiery]

1. If there were justice in this world Hitchens and Gibson would be

put in DETOX together. :P

[sgxnk]

2. throw galloway in there as well

i lurv chris hitchens. i may disagree with him often, but he is absolutely brilliant, and dry as a proper james bond style martini

[ShortnFiery]

4. No, Galloway's the read deal. What? Hitchens is a Disgusting Sot :(

[jonnyblitz]

5. i love the book he wrote that trashed mother theresa

titled "missionary postion" :rofl: :rofl:

[warrens]

24. I remember reading that in the Village Voice and saying...

WTF? That was my introduction to Hitchens and all I could think was, you don't have anything BETTER to complain about? Yeah, yeah, she stayed in fancy hotels at fundraisers, her hospices aren't state of the art, blah blah.

At least this time, he makes sense. Perhaps he's on the wagon?

[jonnyblitz]

49. I just checked out a book from the library about Palestine

that he co-edited/wrote with Edward Said, coincidentally.

I doubt he is on the wagon, though.

[herbbrown]

26. Please tell me this is sarcasm

It's always good to trash others who try to make a diference. I'm not saying Mother Teresa was all she was cracked up to be, but for God sake she was running a orphanage in Calcutta, not drinking a bottle of scotch a day in air conditoned bars and putting out drivel...please tell me it was sarcasm.

[jonnyblitz]

51. i dont want to hijack this thread but he made a compelling

case against her. too long of a story to get into here..

I can find a link to an article by an ex-nun who was with her in Calcutta that is available online that i can PM you if you are curious to see what a critic has to say about her. it's just a google away..:hi:

[AliceWonderland]

50. I don't, erm, lurv the man, and he's a lousy writer

He should take some lessons from Mr. Orwell, the writer he tries so desperately to compare himself to. Mr. Hitchens, you are no Mr. Orwell. Bloated, pretentious, bloviating prose... I don't care what the man says, he can say what he pleases. But I do hate washed-up, no talent writers who act as though they are poet laureates.

[Tom Joad]

6. We wrote that at the same time, short!

[ShortnFiery]

7. You know what they say? Great Minds ...

:applause: :hi:

[Tom Joad]

3. Hitchens is an anti-arab, pro-war fanatic these days, and has his own

drinking problems. He and Mel should go through rehab together.

[jonnyblitz]

8. his friend Salmon Rushdie helped him along with that

Islamophobia.

[nam78_two]

12. In Salman Rushdie's defence

he did have a fatwa on his head for writing a friggin' book...

(A book that IMO, had it not been so controversial would have flopped on its face -B.O.R.I.N.G)

I don't like religious extremists/fanatics of any stripe.

[sgxnk]

14. right

and of course, there are lots of authors who wrote books critical of christianity who have had (functional equivalents of )fatwahs placed on their heads

:)

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Nobody expects the Inquisition...

:rofl:

[sgxnk]

30. well, at least the spanish one that is

help, i'm being repressed!

[cgrindley]

37. Name one anti-Christian writer or director

Who has been killed in the last ten years for writing a book or directing a film that has been critical of Christianity. For that matter, name one who has been the subject of a <i>credible</i> death threat. Pretty much everyone in any sort of high publicity or high responsibility role gets death threats; I'm talking about credible ones.

[sgxnk]

58. bingo

i read an interview with a journalist (can't find the link) who hit the nail on the head. he basically said he has, and would in the future - criticize and even ridicule christianity and/or christians. he felt "safe" doing this, and rightly so, because he knows the risk of PHYSICAL danger from opponents to his exercise of free speech is next to zero

otoh, he made it clear he would NOT do the same in regards to muslims or the koran - NOT because they aren't ripe for ridicule, but because he doesn't want to get murdered.

i find that honesty refreshing

what i find INCREDIBLY dishonest is the EXCUSES by mainstream media outlets that refused to run the cartoons out of a claimed SENSITIVITY to islam

lol

yeah, right

they didn;'t run them because they didn't want a grenade thrown into the lobby of the NYT

i can respect that, but let's be honest here

serrano would not DARE dunk a koran in urine in a public art display and we all know it

it would be tantamount to suicide

[jonnyblitz]

53. of course i knew that otherwise it wouldnt make sense

to mention salmon rushdie. :hi:

I hear ya on the fanatic thing , btw.

[sgxnk]

11. hitchen's has always

been against religious extremists and fascism

he rightly recognizes that the real threat to modern society is primarily from islamofascist, not (to borrow an andrew sullivan'ism) "christofascists"

this, and his hawkishness has made him persona non grata among many in the left

but he remains as brilliant as ever. however, since he broke from the narrow orthodoxy of accepted opinion (tm), the same people who praised him to high heaven now can't get enough out of bashing him

brilliant voice, that man

[Cha]

15. Then he should be against

bushocrats and not enabling them..the sotted sod.

[glarius]

17. Exactly!......n/t

[sgxnk]

18. you go miles

towards proving my point

he broke from the orthodoxy

he is no less brilliant, than when he was the darling of The Nation Set (tm)

[ShortnFiery]

44. IMO the only *brilliant* trick he has left is remembering

where he hid the last bottle. :P He's pathetic - sometimes he looks like he's slept in his clothes. Hitchens is in dire need of "An Intervention." :shrug:

Brilliant as the mole on my butt. :(

[CJCRANE]

23. I disagree.

The so-called "christofascists" (i.e. neocons) have actually directly and indirectly increased islamic fundamentalism because they thrive on it.

Plus the death of 100,000 Iraqi civilians in "shock and awe" and its after-effects have created much more damage than the small cells of "islamofascists" ever did or could.

[sgxnk]

32. fascinating

neocons, who primarily evolved from jewish theoreticians are christofascists

this a fascinating turn of illogic

thanks for sharing

[CJCRANE]

35. The Bush administration

whose foreign policy is driven by neoconservatives gain most of their support from born-again christians. That's a simple fact.

[cgrindley]

39. Why are you confusing support with theoretical framework?

The millions of people who purchase automobiles hardly had anything to do with the design and development of the internal combustion engine.

[CJCRANE]

40. Without their support

the Bush administration couldn't do anything. That's why they're dangerous.

[cgrindley]

45. It's the other way around

Without the terrible theories, they'd be harmless. Well, relatively harmless. Best case scenario, Rockefeller Republicans.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. How could anyone who supported the Iraq War be taken seriously again?

I like the little move whereby you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being an adherent to leftist orthodoxy, by the way. This way, you're never wrong, and you always have a snappy comeback. I think we learned that one in seventh grade debate class, though I didn't think actual adults used it...

[sgxnk]

31. no , i don't

first of all, i readily accept that i can be, and am sometimes wrong

i also often change my mind based on reasoned discussion - as happened with abortion and gun control

*i* am not making these claims about leftist orthodoxy

hitchens has, and many others have commented on it as well

for pete's sake, hitchens was practically the golden child of several leftwing publications until he dared support the iraq war, then suddenly he was a blathering drunk

[cgrindley]

41. You can be a liberal and support certain wars

Though obviously not the Iraq one. I've got no problem, for example, with toppling the Taliban, although I think that it was entirely mismanaged from the start. Of course, the Taliban should never have been allowed to take control in the first place and the world should have stepped in long before WTC.

Likewise, find me anyone who would argue that American involvement in WWII was wrong, or that fighting the Civil War was wrong.

I gues there are probably some hardcore pacifists around, heck, I'm almost one of them, but even I can concede that getting rid of the Taliban was a good idea (although idiotically planned), and I have grudging acceptance of Israel's need to do something about Hezbollah (although they should probably stop now and let the UN take over).

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Hitchens changed, as did his analyses

He was never my golden boy, in any case.

If he had proceeded as he did before he became a DC cocktail circuit maven, he would see that the rise of fundamentalisms is global, and certainly not restricted to islam. He would also see that it correlates exactly with the emergence of global information capitalism.

But once again, I still don't know how anyone who supported the war can be btaken seriously as an analyst. They are all utterly discredited in their views, and none of their predictions have borne the slightest hint of fruit. Quite the opposite, in fact. They've bungled just about everything, and analyzed just about everything incorrectly. Now, I read the Hitchens' piece linked here, and it is amusing. Interesting even. But on almost all questions, Hitchens interests me not in the least. Not because he is a drunken opportunist, though he clearly is that. But rather, because he's shot his credibility with his weirdo Bush-love and severely flawed analyses. I'd no more credit a Hitchens' reading of the world situation than I would a drunken kid on the subway, or Paul Wolfowitz: they're all wrong in di9fferent ways, which Hitchens, somewhat impressively, manages to combine.

[nam78_two]

9. Its good to see that the talking heads in the media are focusing

on the important issue of the day: Mel Gibson! :sarcasm:

I don't like Mel Gibson and I am certain that he is a hate-filled anti-semite. But then I don't like Hitchens either-hawkish, cold-blooded neo-con shill....

This is one of those instances where I would sit on the side-lines and shout "fight fight"....;)

[ShortnFiery]

10. Yes, Thunderdome!

:P Two men enter, one man leaves.

I did love the Mad Max movies but not any other Gibson flicks.

[sgxnk]

13. gallipoli

is a great flick, imo
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082432/

i also liked "we were soldiers" and "payback"

[martymar64]

21. Bust a Deal, Face the Wheel!!!

MasterBlaster runs Bartertown!!!


Words to live by . . .

[mcscajun]

27. He had a few good ones, but I never saw the Mad Max films.

They just weren't my cup of teas.

Gallipoli was outstanding, Maverick was fun, Braveheart was quite good, What Women Want was purely hysterical, and Signs was...well, it was the last M. Night Shyamalan film Or Mel Gibson film I will ever see, but for different reasons.

[sasha031]

16. Ya you have to love any self absorbed intellectual drunk

who calls a grieving mother (Cindy Sheehan) a lunatic among-st other things.

Gibson had allot of bad things to say about Bush that night also, (it was in the Independent, I will try to find it)

I guess Mel also said all jews want to do is cause wars,...well I wouldn't agree with him that it's all jews. He must of had the news on as he was driving after having a few.

As for Hitchen's, he is a cruel vicious piece of shit, end of story.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. One thing I would take Hitchen's word for

is his exquisite and expert knowledge on precisely what happens between the first and second vodka...

:rofl:

[sasha031]

22. I heard Gibson alcohol level was below .1 above the legal limit

Hitchen's functions probably every minute of every day between 5 and 6

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Hitchens will never lose the cocktail circuit vote

Angry, muttering drunks are often quite amusing at parties...:rofl:

[nam78_two]

54. Even without his Iraq stance Hitchens is a very classy guy

He called Mahatma Gandhi a "half naked fakir"....

Now I can see that not everyone has to agree with Gandhi's views on everything..But it takes a real intellect to look at the architect of the Non-violent movement and merely feel he was not upto the snuff sartorially....yep a real classy guy that (Hitchens that is)... :sarcasm:

(and yes I have read his writings on India and as far as I can tell his dislike of Gandhi is nothing if not purely visceral-Hitchens really doesn't like those brown people too much)

I may also disagree with some of Mother Theresa's actions (pressing the poorest people in India not to practice family planning etc. out of religious beliefs) but she helped 1000 times as many people as some racist, pretentious pin-head who sits around swilling alcohol and talking out of his ass about other people...

I am of East Indian origin and Mr. Hitchens' thinly veiled racism against my people has always irked me.

Your empire is dead Hitchens...get over it jackass....

[gratuitous]

29. Yup and Galloway has his number

'You're a drink-soaked former Trotskyist popinjay,' Mr Galloway informed him. 'Your hands are shaking. You badly need another drink.'

[sgxnk]

33. galloway is an absurd apologist for fascists nt

[gratuitous]

42. Ad hominem attack or not . . .

Galloway knows a fool when he sees one.

[cgrindley]

48. Whose ad hominem attack are you commenting on?

I'm getting confused.

[sgxnk]

34. lol

ok. now THAT is funny

[cgrindley]

36. Why shoot the messenger?

Hitchens is right. Gibson is a nasty anti-semite, and unlike most other anti-semites has the resources to cause significant chaos. Look at his pathetic little anti-semitic screed, The Passion of the Christ. He's a jerk.

It doesn't matter what you think about Hitchens. He's right on this one.

I question the motivations of those people on this board who brought up Hitchens' stance on the Arab/Israeli mess in context of Gibson's anti-semitism.

[Lurking Dem]

38. Well said. nt

[ShortnFiery]

47. Because it's so damn hypocritical!

Pot, meet Kettle. They're both (Gibson and Hitchens) Horse's patooties!

I met homeless people who carry themselves with much more CLASS than both of them put together. :(

[flyarm]

46. hitchens is a damn drunk..who cares what that pig says! i won't read

his drunken trash!

fly

[Cleita]

52. Sounds like the alcoholic pot calling the kettle a drunk.

:rofl:

[Marie26]

55. I can't stand Hitchens.

Just felt like adding that (although he's right here.)

[nam78_two]

56. He is a racist pin head..

who thinks that being a part of the British empire was the best thing that could have happened to any country that was part of it.

[Marie26]

57. Seems like

I mean, he slammed Mother Teresa! How low can you go? I think he just likes "shocking" people w/his faux-intellectual screeds. He's the male equivalent of Ann Coulter.