Hezbollah is committing war crimes.

[DireStrike]

Apparently there are people who think this forum is critical only of Israel and totally ignores hamas and hezbollah's crimes. Here is another post disproving that - maybe someone can tally it up and put it on the scale, and let us know when we've distributed blame correctly.

Hezbollah targets civilians. They're not particularly good at it, so they don't get numbers like Israel does. They are not brave defenders of the lebanese people, and are at least equally to blame for the current mess, along with Israel.

[DYouth]

1. They were FORMED to defend Lebanon

I mean to say they aren't in some sense defenders is fallacious.

[DireStrike]

6. They are defenders of lebanon the same way Bush defends the US

What they are supposed to do, what their mission statement says or whatever, is not relevant to what they are doing. Bush passed the clear skies act and the patriot act (with the help of plenty of cowardly dems). Hezbollah call themselves defenders of lebanon. Same shit.

[hack89]

8. Not completely true

they were formed to protect the Shiite population - from Lebanese Christians and Druze just as much as Israel. Do you think that Hezbollah has the interest of all of Lebanon in mind when they start wars at the behest of Iran?

[DYouth]

9. "Iran pulling the strings" is this Bill Kristol talking points?

[DireStrike]

13. This is muddy ground we walk on

Few of us are in a position to know what is going on. All we can do is judge people by their actions, and not what others tell us about them.

[DYouth]

18. Which is why I hope you join me in resisting the urging by the neocons

to expand this war beyond Palestine and Lebanon to Iran and Syria. It's all nonsense and most people who will die in such a war never dreamed of taking up arms against Israel or vice versa.

[DireStrike]

24. Damn right I will.

There is more evidence for stolen elections than there was to go to war in Iran, Syria, Iraq, and possibly even Afghanistan (I haven't looked into that much.)

[hack89]

17. So Hezbollah is not Iran's proxy?

Why did Iran provide all that money, weapons and military advisors?

Calling me a freeper simply highlights how pathetic your arguments are - no intellectual content, just insults.

[DYouth]

20. They were justified in creating it

They had to defend themselves against US proxies Israel and Iraq.

[Taxloss]

27. Hezbollah was formed long before Iraq was invaded by the US.

Iraq used to support Hezbollah, under Saddam.

[Ms. Clio]

22. Is Israel the United States' proxy?

$3 billion a year, a rush order of bombs, a helpful sale of jet fuel, and "permission" to continue destroying Lebanon would seem to indicate so.

[Taxloss]

19. Wrong.

They were formed to kick out the Israelis, but not in Lebanon's interests - simply in order to keep Lebanon in the Syrian/Iranian sphere of influence. The Beirut government has no love for Hezbollah, it's just another occupying force, and the Lebanese people dearly want Syrian interference to end.

Syria (and Iran, which supplies Hezbollah) cannot fight Israel conventionally, so they prefer to use Hezbollah as a proxy to bleed Israel in Syria. This is not good for the Lebanese, or the region as a whole.

[DYouth]

23. It's not an occupying force

That borders on ridiculous. These are Israeli points

[Taxloss]

26. It is an extension of Syrian influence over Lebanon.

And most Lebanese people see it as such.

And by the way, are you suggesting that "israeli points" are ipso facto wrong?

[malaise]

28. Clearly you didn't hear SIniora

in that interview today.

[Taxloss]

33. He's justifiably upset about Israel's assault

which has been, in my opinion, hugelt misguided. They had to retaliate, but not like this.

[BillZBubb]

29. Where do you Israel apologists get this bullshit????

Hezbollah is made up of Lebanese. Not Iranians, not Syrians. They may share Iran and Syria's dislike of Israel, but Hezbollah is looking out of Lebanese Shiite interests. Militant Hezbollah is a product of Israeli actions not Syrian or Iranian. The Israeli occupation of Lebanon gave them their start.

The Beirut government may not love the militant wing of Hezbollah, but it is not an "occupying force". They are indigenous and supported by a large percentage of the population. Your comments are pure Israeli propaganda and patently absurd.

[hack89]

47. Before they were killing jews

they were killing christians and druze - lets not forget the civil war.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. Absolutely nt

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Sure, in the same way that the Minutemen were formed

to defend the US.

Thugs.

[TahitiNut]

44. Oh? Israelis were crossing into Lebanon to work on farms

... construction, and in fast food restaurants? I didn't know that. Live and learn. :dunce:

[JerseygirlCT]

45. That's rather my point

The minutemen weren't formed because the US needed defending, but because of xenophobia and racism.

Hezbollah aren't a Lebanese defense force -- they're a terrorist group and a proxy for Iran and Syria in their efforts to de-stabilize the region and destroy Israel.

[TahitiNut]

48. Have the Minutemen broken our laws? Killed anyone?

How many have you interviewed personally to come to the conclusion they're all xenophobes and racists? Are there no Hispanic-American members? no Asian-American members? (I really don't know - but find it improbable.)

Don't get me wrong. I don't carry water for them. I profoundly disagree with their approach and their style - not to mention their apparent majority political preferences. I do, however, wish the left would get up off its collective ass and get as active for something like a living wage, national health care, or employer accountability - active to at least the extent that these people have regarding issues of far more relevant impact to greater numbers.

Insofar as Hizb'allah is concerned, I pretty much detest the attempts by their opponents to rewrite history and cartoonishly demonize them in a wholesale manner. I do, however, understand how the drums of war are beaten to get people up in arms with war fever. Dehumanization. Demonization. Hyperbole. Kill. Kill. Kill.

In my view, they're roughly equivalent to the IRA + Sinn Fein. Shall we have the British bomb Dublin? Shall we sell them the bombs to do so? How many 10-story apartment buildings did the British turn to rubble in Dublin with their Air Force? How many UN observers did they attack with aircraft?

From a national government I expect far, far better. The Bushoilini 'doctrine' isn't any more attractive when conducted under a Star of David instead of the Stars and Stripes. I regard Likud as nearly as cancerous as neoconservative Republicans. I suspect there're a sizable number of Israelis that'd agree with me on that.


:puke: :puke:

[CuteNFuzzy]

2. you know, maybe they should bomb with chemical weapons

to get the thumbs up from the U.S.? Is that what it takes?

[ShortnFiery]

3. I've learned my lesson ...

:popcorn:

[Swede]

4. Katyushas filled with ballbearings aimed at a city of 300,000 is a crime.

No doubt about it.

[msongs]

5. lots of war crimes & blame to go around. after all,

"your attacks are war crimes and ours are not", generically speaking.

The USA is certainly no moral example, sorry to say.

msongs
www.msongs.com/howarddean2008.htm

[Emit]

7. Based on some of the footage I saw today on MSNBC

I would say that some of the Lebanese may disagree with you about the 'Hezbollah are not brave defenders of their country' part. After the bombing of Tyre, the reporter for MSNBC said he had to leave when the crowd got so worked up, for fear that they would turn their aggressions on him, an American. What's going on now is not turning the Lebanese against Hezbollah -- it's pushing them toward them!

[DireStrike]

10. Unfortunately you're right

Violence and war seems to turn everyone into rabid partisan warmongers. Anybody who hurts the enemy, says they'll hurt the enemy, or looks like they might think about hurting the enemy, is ok in everyone's book when a war is going on.

[Igel]

31. Partisan supporters support their party.

Esp. after a decade of hearing how wonderful they are, how wonderful Allah's Party is (Hezbollah being a phrase from the Qur'an, what all Muslims should join ... a great slogan), and how horrible and corrupt the Jews are.

Feed people, clothe people, tell people they're good and great and the only reason they don't have more is because there's an enemy that wants to have them poor, hates them because they're good, and are willfully corrupt ... you can't lose. Ethnic- and religion-based populism has seldom failed, but requires an external enemy.

Hence, Hezbollah's the resistance. It can't be otherwise. When it stopped being the resistance, it had to become the resistance yet again ... and the Shebaa Farms claim sprung back into existence.

[Jade Fox]

11. War IS war crime.

There are no good guys when cities are being destroyed and civilians are being killed.

When this is over, who will have "won"?

[DireStrike]

14. I'm guessing some western investors will make out pretty nicely

Oh, and weapons manufacturers.

Everybody else loses.

[blonndee]

12. Yes, killing civilians is wrong. nt

[treestar]

15. What, doesn't Hezbollah have a right to defend itself?

:sarcasm:

[LSK]

16. nevermind

BOTH SIDES SHOULD FUCKING STOP ALREADY.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Stay tuned! Hezbollah has a BIG SURPRISE for Tel Aviv! The death toll of

Israelis will surely climb.

Israelis, BY LAW, must have bomb shelters and safe rooms. That is another reason there aren't as many Israeli deaths. WHY do they, BY LAW, have to have bomb shelters and safe rooms? BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS ALWAYS BEING ATTACKED BY PSYCHO TERRORISTS.....that's why.

[BillZBubb]

30. They have to have shelters because they always make enemies

They've just created a whole new generation in Lebanon. Israel has become a terrorist state.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Bullshit.. Read a history book or better YET...READ THIS book:

"Why I left Jihad" by Walid Shoebat...a former PLO member who LEFT the terrorist business. Read it and educate yourself and then come back here and tell me Israel is a terrorist state.

http://www.shoebat.com/book_jihad.php

[BillZBubb]

36. I don't need to read one guys opinion. I look at the facts.

The fact is, Israel has become a thug and terrorist state. What they are doing in Lebanon is pure state terrorism.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. "Why I left Jihad" by Walid Shoebat...READ IT PEOPLE. Learn the TRUTH! n/

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

25. Breathtaking in their disregard for innocent life

[Superman Returns]

32. oh my

Israel is a terrorist state? How are rational DU'ers surviving this onslaught of these like-minded posts?

[JerseygirlCT]

37. I'm growing tired of the black and white,

Israel isn't completely right, therefore Hezbollah can't be wrong thinking here.

Israel is not a terrorist state. Israel as a state has been under siege since its founding. They have every right to defend themselves.

That said, I think their actions are too strong -- isn't "disproportionate" the current term being thrown about the news shows?

That doesn't ever make Hezbollah into some sort of noble freedom fighters. That's a painful, and painfully naive view of thugs using religious fundamentalism and hatred at a basic level to insure their own power. The Lebanese need to be free from this gang, and the sooner the better for the future of Lebanon.

[magellan]

39. No shit.

They're terrorists. What's Israel's excuse?

Both sides are wrong. Get over it.

[bowens43]

40. Israel targets civilians too.

And they are much better at it. The Israeli military has killed more civilians then Hezzbollah , Hamas and the PLA combined.

Israel stole the land that they occupy. All of it. They are terrorists and occupiers.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. "they don't get numbers like Israel does."

Indeed they don't. Israelis killed by Hezbollah have been mostly military while Lebanese killed by the IDF have been overwhelmingly civilian.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/interactives/mideastattacks/israelmap.html

Who exactly is the terrorist, if terrorism is defined as:

"Terrorism refers to a strategy of using violence, or threat of violence targeted against innocents or non-combatants to generate fear, cause disruption, and ultimately, to bring about compliance with specific political, religious, ideological, and personal demands."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

Chalking this up to bad targeting by Hezbollah is yet the latest attempt to paper over reality with a veneer of bullshit.

[melnjones]

43. ...

:applause: