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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:01 AM
Original message
help me out with the Israeli/Lebanese/Hezollah timeline
Hezollah kidnaps two Israeli soldiers
Israel bombs Beruit
Hezollah fires rockets at Israeli cities

You know how the corporate media is, so I have to make sure

Also, why did Israel invade Lebanon in the 1980's and didn't that action help strengthen Hezollah?
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. You have to go back further...
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 09:09 AM by LiberalPartisan
18 may 1948 Israel becomes an independant state
19 May 1948 Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Jordan all declare war on the new state of Israel.

And it's been a variation on that same theme for 58 years.

The 1980s invasion of Lebanon was to establish a buffer zone between Isreal and Lebanon because the in place UN force proved ineffective as halting terrorist attacks against Israel originating from Lebanon.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Nah - you have to go back just a bit further.........
". . . Around 10,000 B.C., many hunter-gatherers living along the coastal plains of modern Syria and Israel and in the valleys and hills near the Zagros Mountains between Iran and Iraq began to develop special strategies that led to a transformation in the human community.

. . . Between 9000 B.C. and the beginning of the Christian era, western civilization came into being in Egypt and in what historians call Ancient Western Asia (modern-day Cyprus, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Turkey, south-western Russia, Iraq and Iran).


. . . The history and culture of Mesopotamian civilization is inextricably connected to the ebb and flow of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The earliest communities developed to the north but since rainfall in that area was so unpredictable, by 5000 B.C. communities had spread south to the rich alluvial plain. The economy of these communities was primarily agricultural and approximately 100-200 people lived in these permanently established villages. The alluvial plain in southern Mesopotamia ("land between the rivers") was far more fertile than the north but because there was little rainfall, irrigation ditches had to be constructed. Furthermore, the river beds of the Tigris and Euphrates rise and fall with the seasons and they change their course unpredictably. Southern Mesopotamia also had its share of flash floods which could destroy crops, livestock and village homes . . .

. . . Because the land closest to the river was the most fertile, there was a variation in terms of the wealth of these early farmers, which led to distinct social classes.


. . . Mesopotamian villages and towns eventually evolved into independent and nearly self-sufficient city-states. Although largely economically dependent on one another, these city-states were independent political entities and retained very strong isolationist tendencies.

http://www.earth-history.com/Sumer /
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. The word Hebrew actually means.....
he who has crossed the euphrates....
Indicating how long it has been "Their" land.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. When they got there, weren't the Philistines already there?
I think so.

And the Philistines became the Palestinians.

Not "their" land anymore than Columbus "discovered" a land already inhabited by Native Americans.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. origins.....
The Book of Genesis is set in the Fertile Crescent between 2000 and 1000 B.C.E. It places Israelite origins in Mesopotamia, the "land between" the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. By the 3rd millennium B.C.E., people speaking Semitic languages had settled in this "cradle of civilization," founding city-states such as Abraham’s birthplace Ur, from whence he set out for Canaan.

. . . After their settlement in Canaan in the 13th century B.C.E., the Israelite tribes went through a period of political and religious disarray until a monarchy was finally established. Under David and Solomon in the 10th century B.C.E.,

. . . In 722 B.C.E., Assyria, the rising power in Mesopotamia, conquered the northern kingdom and exiled its people. The captives, the so-called "Ten Lost Tribes," were probably absorbed into the general population. The kingdom of Judah survived until 586 B.C.E., when it fell victim to Nebuchadnezzar, king of the new Mesopotamian empire of Babylonia.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/heritage/episode1/

*****

The Hebrews, a Semitic-speaking people, first appeared in Mesopotamia. For instance, Abraham's family were native to Sumer. But between 1900 and 1500 B.C., the Hebrews migrated from Mesopotamia to Canaan and then into Egypt. At this time, a tribe of Hebrews who claimed to be the descendants of Abraham began to call themselves Israelites ("soldiers of God").
http://www.historyguide.org/ancient/lecture4b.html

*****8

The source that introduces us to people called Hebrews is the Book of Genesis, of the Five Books of Moses, or the Old Testament, Genesis 14:13 describing a man called Abraham as a Hebrew. Genesis describes Abraham as the son Terah and the brother of Nahor and Haran, a family that dwelled at Ur, in the land of the Chaldeans. According to Genesis, Terah took his family to Haran, where he died. And from Haran, Abraham migrated with his family into Canaan. Some believe this was toward the end of the 2000s BCE, long before the Chaldeans established themselves in Sumer. Some others speculate that Abraham's migration from Haran came much later. In recent years, archaeologists have concluded that we have no evidence as to dates regarding Abraham.

The word Hebrew has been associated with the word Hiberu found in writing sent to Egypt by one of the small states that Egypt had left behind when it withdrew from Canaan in the 1300s BCE. These states were disturbed by the arrival of nomadic tribes that came in waves across generations. Hiberu meant outsider and might have referred to a great variety of migrants. The connection between the words Hebrew and Hiberu, moreover, is still being questioned.

The question remains for some whether the Hebrews were the original people on this earth or whether they derived genetically from those Homo sapiens believed to have been in Africa some 130,000 years ago - the latter suggesting that like others the Hebrews passed through a period of primitive hunting and gathering and the animism common to hunter-gatherers, including the belief that the world worked through the magic of many gods.

The Hebrews described in the Old Testament appear to have been semi-nomadic herders of sheep and goats and occasional farmers, without knowledge of metal working, sophisticated craftsmanship or a written language. Like other nomadic herders, they were tent dwellers - as Abraham is described in Genesis 13:3. And as was common among herders, the Hebrews had a masculine god of the sky and weather. The Hebrews organized themselves around their extended families, and Hebrew families were combined into kinship groups governed by a council of elders that left the head of a family with a sense of self-rule. These heads of families were males with absolute authority over their wives and children, and they were the priests for their families, each family having its own sacred images.

Typical of pastoral peoples, Hebrews saw vengeance as necessary for justice - an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. They believed in collective guilt: that an extended family, clan, or tribe was responsible for the acts of one of its members - a view that was to color their picture of divine acts of vengeance. Like other peoples, the Hebrews saw their god of the sky as concerned with them rather than as a god for all peoples. Genesis 15:18 describes their god as making a covenant with Abraham, saying: To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch04.htm

******

About that last statement: "Genesis 15:18 describes their god as making a covenant with Abraham, saying: To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates."

hmmmmmmmmm......

". . . a sign of the covenant between God and the Jews, who are descended from Isaac, son of Abraham's old age. Abraham also received the promise of Canaan for his people.

. . . Muslims believe that Arabs are descended from Abraham and Hagar through their son Ishmael. Abraham is further regarded as an ancestor of Muhammad. "

http://www.answers.com/topic/abraham


Sounds like the Bible (if you want to use it as the authority) is ceding the land to Abraham's descendants - which include the Jews AND Muslims. (oops - looks like God made the same mistake the Brits did.)


Wait a minute - who's this? In the Book of Genesis, Keturah or Ketura (קְטוּרָה "Incense", Standard Hebrew Qətura, Tiberian Hebrew Qəṭûrāh) is the woman whom Abraham marries after the death of Sarah. She bears him six sons, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. <**That he sent far far away from his son, Isaac.***>

She is styled "Abraham's concubine" (1 Chr. 1:32). Abraham married her probably after Sarah's death (Gen. 25:1-6). He also sent the sons he had by Keturah to live in the east far from his son Isaac. Rabbinic lore (midrash) holds that Keturah is Hagar.



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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Ah, You Kind of Forgot About ...
... the forcible expulsion of indigenous people from the new 'independent' state of Israel.

700,000 folks basically boot off their own land.

Nothing "liberal' about that ... and that is what set this off 58 years ago.

And the conflict has always been a very one-sided affair, with the U.S. always supporting the most egregious land grabs and hideous treatment of Palestinians.

Then when desperate people strike back, they are labelled 'terrorists'.
(And blowing up innocent people by suicide bomb is wrong ... but so is blowing up innocent people with air-to-ground missiles fired from jet fighter planes.)

There is a very easy solution. Enforce UN resolutions 242 and 338 -- Israel returns to the 1967 borders. And that's pretty liberal because the 1947 UN partition plan lets the Palestinians keep a whole lot more of their land.

The only real solution is political, war and force and killing people will not ever remedy this problem ... and that is the mistake both sides have made over the decades. But really, the obligation is mostly on Israel with its illegal nuclear weapons and overwhelming military power (paid for mostly by YOU, American taxpayer) ... they should act responsibly instead of always buckling to the extremists in their own country that want to essentially ethnically cleanse 'greater Israel' of all Arabs.
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. If Israel reverted to the 1967 borders...
Do you really believe terror attacks against her would stop?
I don't. Iran would direct Hezbollah or some other proxy to continue attacking Isreal in line with the official Iranian policy which seeks the destruction of Isreal.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. In fairness...
I'm not Israel apologist, but we should remember that the Arab residents of the Jewish-majority land that was made into Israel were given Israeli citizenship and have kept it to this day. The persons displaced from their land were displaced when Israel's neighbors attacked Israel.

Nothing in what I am saying excuses the immoral and counterproductive treatment by Israel of those people in the decades since then, but remember that the creation of Israel produced people who were at that time the only Arab citizens of a democratic country in the region, and the persons displaced were displaced from their Palestinian home by a war of aggression and choice against Israel, an aggression that has on some fronts abated but on other fronts only gotten worse (and often gotten worse due to Israel's own pig-headed actions).
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. that's an incomplete timeline
and it starts about 4000 years too late.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. the first part
The Katushya rockets from Hezbollah

Annan urges Palestinians, Israelis and Syria to exercise restraint
By Associated Press June 29, 2006
"Annan noted that four Katushya rockets were fired into Israel on Wednesday. "
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/8776.ht...

Bombs from Israel:

Hezbollah leader vows 'open war' on Israel
Last Updated Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:26:37 EDT
More than 55 people were killed on Thursday in the first wave of Israeli strikes against the airport and two Lebanese military bases. Israel's navy is enforcing a blockade of Lebanese ports.

Israel's military campaign was launched in retaliation for an attack by Hezbollah forces on Wednesday in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and taken into Lebanese territory.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/14/israe...



"Israel began its ground invasion June 28, three days after militants linked to Hamas captured Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit, 19, in a daring cross-border raid. Israeli officials said they would do what was necessary to get the soldier back.

On Thursday, the fighting swelled - and so did the death toll.
http://www.columbian.com/news/APStories/AP07062006news4...



Tensions run high in the Middle EastIsraeli war planes fired on after entering Syrian air space
By Jeff Pegues (Gaza City-WABC, June 28, 2006) - Tensions in the Middle East escalated further Wednesday when Israeli war planes were fired on after flying into Syrian air space.

That comes after Israeli fighters hammered targets in the Gaza Strip.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=nation_world&...
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. self-delete
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 09:08 AM by mzteris
double post.
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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Who needs a reason at this point
Israel is a militaristic theocracy that just happens to hold elections. Same with most of the countries in the Middle East... there is not going to be any reform there. We have screwed up badly enough that a regional war there is inevitable.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. militaristic? yes.
Theocracy? not in any real sense of the word. To call it a theocracy is to ignore that it's not only about religion, but just as much about cultural identity. By almost any measurement, Israel is a democratic society. That certainly doesn't excuse the brutal occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, but suggesting that Israel is much like other theocratic nations in the mid east, is just factually incorrect.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. There's a pervasive meme
going around at DU that this is all about two kidnapped soldiers. That leaves out the fact that H'zbollah fired rockets into israeli towns as a diversion while carrying out their operation; they crossed into Israel, killed several IDF members and captured/kidnapped/abducted/whatever, two. This was not the first time in recent years that H'zbollah has carried out such an operation. In addition, H'zbollah has been firing rockets into Israel for years.

However, H'zbollah's actions cannot, I think, be divorced from Israel's brutal campaign against Palestinians in Gaza. Would they have mounted this operation had the Israelis not brutally bombed Gaza, causing the entire citizenry to suffer? It's hard to say; I certainly wouldn't hazard a guess, but I think it's fair to say that the Israeli/Gaza situation acted as a spur.

As far as Israel's invasion of Lebanon, that was, ostensibly, to go after the PLO. In fact, the situation today, is not that different from the one a quarter of a century ago.
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Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. There you go and now you have really screwed up
"Hezollah kidnaps two Israeli soldiers" OMG, you said it. You must be a repuke :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

There were "captured" not "kidnapped"

Just wanted to warn you that you have committed the most heinous sin around here and used the terminology of the bush/israeli controlled US media.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

As a side note: Hezbollah has been sending rockets into northern Israel for years, ever since Israel left every square inch of Lebanon

The two kidnapped solders were the last straw for Israel
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
8. as of 2000 Israel was in possession of a bit of the southern portion of...
lebanon.... They pulled out of those territories (no, not golan heights) in an agreement (I think as part of Oslo Accords) with lebanon that Hezbollah would no longer be allowed to use that area as a base from which to launch attacks on Israel. In other words Lebanon had to step up to the plate.... They never did..... attacks continued.
the Israelis should have gone back in a long time ago..... the kidnappings were just the last straw.
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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Netanyahu wasn't talking about this during psy-ops on CNN
Seriously. Israel's leaders were preparing the American public for this weeks before this started by pounding our media with talk about these rocket attacks. This administration is complicit in what they are doing now. We probably endorsed it. Do really believe Bush hasn't talked to the new Israeli PM at all? This is what we are being told by Washington.

But these attacks Netanyahu was talking about... supposedly "hundreds" of rocket attacks from Gaza. Well, I heard no mention of Lebanon during this, did you? Huh? Here come the bulldozers...
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Gaza.... is in a different direction from Lebanon....
The people in Gaza who are firing rockets are Hamas..... a horse of a different color.
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imlost Donating Member (176 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. I believe, Israel invaded Lebanon in the 1980's because of the PLO.
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 09:27 AM by imlost
The PLO had control of southern Lebanon and they were attacking Israel.
The Lebanese wanted the PLO out of their country, therefore they were happy
when Israel came in. Israel got rid of the PLO in Lebanon. But, then Israel
overstayed their welcome. This is when Hezbollah was created. 100 days to the
day of Israel invading Lebanon you saw the first suicide bombing by Hezbollah
against Israel.

Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm going of what I heard on NPR.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. The first invasion of Lebanon
Also, why did Israel invade Lebanon in the 1980's and didn't that action help strengthen Hezollah?

They invaded in the 1980's because the PLO (a group whose political wing you would recognize today as Fatah) had taken up positions in southern Lebanon under the cover of a decade-old Lebanese civil war, and was using them to launch rockets and raids into Israel (sound familiar?) The Israeli invasion was, ironically, hailed by Shi'ites at the time as a liberation from the PLO occupation, but the Shi'ites quickly soured on the Israeli occupation and began to resist it. As more Shi'ites began to demand an Israeli withdrawl, Hezbollah was formed (with funding and guidance by Iran). Its military arm began resistance operations against the Israeli army (and "collaborating" Lebanese), and its political arm began to restore the demolished infrastructure, building hospitals, schools, and housing.

The alleged cause of the invasion and occupation was an assasination attempt by Abu Nidal on the Israeli ambassador in London. Much like the Lebanon air strikes today, though, it could be argued that Israel hit the wrong target since Abu Nidal was a committed enemy of Yassar Arafat and the PLO, though they had at times formed a truce of necessity against Israel.

At any rate, after an initial occuption and some violence, a tenuous ceasefire was reached with Israel in control of southern sections of Lebanon, but not claiming any sovereignty over the land (ie, they never said the land was Israeli, they just said they were going to hold it since Lebanon could not keep people from attacking Israel from it). The ceasefire crumbled after the assassination of a popular Lebanese prime minister, in which Syria was implicated (sound familiar?) -- this was the time period in which US Marines were sent as peacekeepers (can you imagine? an Arab nation requesting US troops as peacekeepers? tout ca change...). Israel invaded the north of Lebanon and closed off the Palestinian refugee camps.

And now comes the really bad part (and remember this is still just one year into the occupation).. Ariel Sharon (sound familiar?) sent a Phalangist militia (the Phalangists are something like the Hezbollah of Lebanese Christians) into several Palestinian refugee camps. Hundreds, possibly thousands, of Palestinians were killed in cold blood and buried in mass graves. Israeli society came near to collapse in the resulting furor. In addition, shortly after the massacre, the Marine barracks in Beiruit and the US embassy were bombed, apparently by Hezbollah. Reagan withdrew the US troops and invaded Grenada.

The violence simmered for another 18 years with only a few hot spots in the mid 1990's. Sharon's political career was derailed for almost 2 decades, until the intifada (which was nominally sparked by his visiting the temple mount). In a strategic sense, the Israeli occupation was a success since it did prevent any further attacks or raids into Israel proper. However, it was a pyrrhic victory in that it cost the lives of more than 1000 Israeli soldiers, turned world opinion against Israel, further hardened the Palestinian resistance (Arafat was beginning to negotiate with Israel in 1982), created Hezbollah expanding Iran's influence in the country, destabilized Lebanon for at least a generation, and created an indefensable salient that everyone knew Israel would have to withdraw from at some point.

And withdraw they did in 2000, at which point Hezbollah reoccupied the area and within a few months was launching rockets into the Golan heights and, from time to time, "green line" Israel. As Israel withdrew, Syria moved in and stayed until world opinion and Lebanese protests made them withdraw in 2005 after a Syrian-linked assassination of a popular Lebanese political figure. As Syria withdrew its physical presence, its influence over Hezbollah seems to have diminished, and the audacity of their operations against Israel increased. And, so, we're where we are today.

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AusTexDem Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
18.  Now that was actually helpful. Thanks. nt
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. Self Delete
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 09:48 AM by dmesg
I'm getting a lot more of these dupes lately...
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. 10,000 BC: A clan of caveman from the mountains of what is now Sinai
Edited on Sat Jul-22-06 10:38 AM by leftofthedial
became nomadic in response to drought.They knew the Egyptians would kick their ass and make them slaves and make them lift heavy rocks all day, so they wandered north and east searching for water and grazing lands for their goat. By coincidence, another clan from the area we now call Damascus also began wandering, searching for water for their goat. They knew the Babylonians would kick their ass and make them slaves and make them wrestle lions all day, so they wandered south and west.

As luck would have it, both groups arrived simultaneously in the area near present-day Jerusalem, and found a water hole and a patch of grass--just enough for a goat.

One thing led to another and they began throwing rocks at one another. Several were killed on both sides. Lemuel, son of Schlemuel from the southern clan, Ahab, son of Schmahab from the northern clan, and a few others were smitten most grievously with stones and verily did die. The two leaders (both being sociopaths, as all politicians are) saw this battle as a chance to increase their power over their respective clans by loudly rousing their side to fight. And oh, the fight was wonderful! Lots of blood and destruction and fear and loathing! The sociopath's dream!

But then, it began raining steadily. Soon, there was enough water for both goats and even enough for the two sides to let their children drink. The sides stopped fighting for a bit while they drank. Pretty soon, the fight was forgotten and a few of the cavemen from different clans actually began grunting most jovially and picking fleas off one another. The goats even started getting romantic.

The sociopath leading the southern clan and the sociopath leading the northern clan both realized that this peaceful drinking was a bad, bad thing. Neither wanted to share power and control over the water hole and the patch of grass. What to do? What to do? Beng sociopaths, they both had long ago convinced their followers that there was a bearded fat guy in the clouds who made it rain (or not) and that the bearded fat guy wanted *him* and only him to be supreme ruler of the clan. Extending that "divine" authority to include dominion over the water hole and the patch of grass and--what the hell--all the lands a man could ride a mule to in forty days (if he had a mule) was easy work for a sociopath. Presto! The struggle with the other clan was not just about goats drinking water or control of the water hole and the patch of grass or sharing sometimes scarce resources. It was about appeasing the bearded fat guy in the clouds who made it rain (or not). Even though both clans believed there was a bearded fat guy in the clouds who made it rain (or not), as luck would have it, each had made up a slightly different name for him. One clan feared BooBoo and the other feared GooGoo. This, combined with Schlemuel and Schmahab still being pretty pissed off that their sons were dead, made starting the fight back up a piece of cake!

Voila! Each side had to revenge their dead AND prove that they owned the water hole and the patch of grass AND prove that their bearded fat guy in the clouds who made it rain (or not) was the only true bearded fat guy in the clouds who made it rain (or not). And what the hell, why not take the other guy's goat and some of his women while we're at it too! After all, GooGoo, MY bearded fat guy in the clouds who makes it rain (or not) is bigger than BooBoo, YOUR bearded fat guy in the clouds who makes it rain (or not). And what's more, I used to know Lemuel. He was a pretty good guy and he wasn't planning to be killed by a rock that one of you stinking bastards threw! I'm gonna kill you, you evil scum terrorist bastards! I'm gonna kill you. All of you deserve to die. You are murderers AND you worship the wrong bearded fat guy in the clouds who makes it rain (or not)! Die! Die! Die! Kill! Kill! Kill!

(To complete the timeline, throw in a couple of times when one clan or the other left for awhile and then came back. Change the names of the clans and the name of the bearded fat guy in the clouds who makes it rain (or not) once in awhile. Otherwise, repeat pretty much the same scenario every twenty or thirty years from 10,000 BC to present.)

Oh, great Schmahab, I will revenge the death of your son, yea even unto the seventh son of the seventh son! Where's my goat?
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. almost right story, wrong time...
more like 2000 BC --- if you'll pardon my intrusion......

Genesis 13: "And the land was not able to bear them, that they might dwell together, for their substance was great, so that they could not dwell together. And there was a strife between the herdsmen of Abram’s cattle and the herdsmen of Lot’s cattle" (vv. 6 and 7).


Lot chose the Jordan valley to live in. In this valley were many wicked cities. One city was named Sodom. It was in this city that Lot went to live. (Everyone touts how "generous and king and wise Abraham was to effect this...... unless you believe *this* next part, too ...)

Abraham walked a little ways with the angels and one of the angels told Abraham that God was going to destroy the wicked city of Sodom. (Genesis 18:16-22)


ALTHOUGH, you're probably right that something similar happened earlier. Check my post upthread about history.
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