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DiFi backs Gonzo into a corner -- stunned silence ensues!

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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:04 PM
Original message
DiFi backs Gonzo into a corner -- stunned silence ensues!
This exchange happened JUST as DU went down, so I am not sure if it has been posted on since. But it was, to me, the most memorable moment of this morning's Judiciary hearing. Essentially, it went like this:

Difi: "About FISA, you say that the President has the authority to wiretap Americans without warrants due to his war powers under Article 2, correct?"
Gonzo: "Yes."
Difi: "And I got a letter from your associate saying that the President could act because Congress had not set up a statute. Well, that's not true. The FISA law clearly says that the President can eavesdrop without warrants for 15 days after a declaration of war."
Gonzo: "Yes, but we didn't have a declaration of war, only an authorization to use military force, so we couldn't work with that provision."
Difi: "So you're saying that the AUMF does not amount to a declaration of war?"
Gonzo: "Obviously they are different."
Difi: "So if the AUMF is not a declaration of war, the president shouldn't have WAR powers!"

Gonzo: "................."

(whispers in the chamber...)

Oh, Difi... :yourock: All is forgiven... :yourock:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. That is...awesome
When DiFi gets her dander up she is amazing. :headbang:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. For 4 years Bush and GOP media have been saying the Dems voted for war
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 01:26 PM by blm
when all along they voted for a resolution that called for war in the event Bush found it was NECESSARY to defend national security. Bush never found the need he claimed - DSM is proof of that.

Too bad media will not hold Bush accountable for bypassing the guidelines of the IWR to have his invasion.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. Exactly -- the very point JK was trying to make, repeatedly, in 2004
and now their own interpretation of the word "war" is biting them in the ass. Clinton pulled the same shenanigans with arguing over what "is" means...difference: 100,000 aren't dead because of it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #26
65. Too bad DU'ers won't hold him responsible. It's easier to trash Dems
and go with the flow and pretend that it actually WAS a 'blank check to invade Iraq'.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
71. Had more Dems attacked Bush's VIOLATION of the IWR to have war, the media
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 04:24 PM by blm
would have had to deal with the facts LONG AGO. Instead, people were posturing about the vote itself, when it was NEVER the IWR, itself, that took this nation to war, but Bush's violation of the resolution.

The mediawhores seized upon the public's confusion and protected Bush by calling it a vote for war. Too many Democrats joined in the rhetoric out of anger, making them susceptible to the spin.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. A rocket shot up Gonzales' arse that should be heard around the world: war
powers come with a declaration of war which hasn't occurred, so are all of W's assumption of war powers illegal or unconditional? Does even one 'Puke give a flying f*ck? :headbang:
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Epiphany4z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. oops
geeze Gonzo dived right into a big ol pile of poo poo didn't he....
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. ooh, a Perry Mason moment
when the guilty party is caught in a blatant contradiction. "Lieutenant Tragg, arrest that man!"
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Holy cow! Go DiFi!
I completely missed that. Thanks for the update and transcript.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh oh oh is there a clip??? That needs to be on Jon Stewert and KO!
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
126. Link for video is here
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #126
128. Fantastic! Thanks for this link!
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good for DiFi in her questioning.
My faith in her is still frozen at 0 and not likely to climb even with all this California heat and fires.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. About time
someone brought up this little detail.

Nice to see Gonzo Boy under oath today, too.

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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R! This is BIG news!
however, I'm sure the smug * isn't worried about this only about when he's going to get another roasted pig! Hope this story, thanks to DiFi gets some press tonight...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. About that there pig --
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 01:21 PM by NCevilDUer
I read a couple references to it as 'roast boar', as in wild boar. That makes it a game animal, and a classic European traditional feast. For * to call it a 'pig', like he's at a pig-pickin' back in Crawford is an insult to Eastern European cuisine. No?

Maybe that's how the Merkle incident happened - in his fog, with the pig-pickin' there, he thought he was back on the pig farm, and reverted to norm.

ON EDIT - please ignore this. it's way off topic.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
99. I know I was off topic----I just couldn't.....
help myself!!!!!! Thanks for the info. I bet you're right about the boar thing.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
111. You're boaring me.
(sorry- couldn't resist :) )
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Sounds a bit like the old Catch-22. Gonzales - shackles and chains.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. All it takes is about three questions
Nicely done, Senator Feinstein.

This corrupt administration is incredibly slippery and changes its story to suit whatever the prevailing narrative is supposed to be. All it really takes is about three questions to expose them, as Feinstein did with AG Puppy Dog. But you have to do a little preparation before hand.

Will the major media notice this exchange? Will they make a big deal, a little deal, any kind of deal out of it at all? Or will they simply take down their little notes and overlook the fact that there's a contradiction staring them in the face?
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You answered your own question
Will the major media notice this exchange? Will they make a big deal, a little deal, any kind of deal out of it at all? Or will they simply take down their little notes and overlook the fact that there's a contradiction staring them in the face?

I smell Whora O'Donnell, Tweety and the rest of the barking heads spinning now!
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. I'm reminded of an old Doonesbury strip
The civics professor is talking about the founding principles of the country, and asks if anyone has a question about what Jefferson might have meant in one of his writings. He thinks, "Of course not; you're all too busy getting this down." So he goes on with his lecture, and starts making crazier and crazier statements about the United States: Jefferson was wrong! We should have a king, not a president! Congress should be abolished!

Meanwhile, among the students, one of them asks the guy next to him, "Can you believe this?" And the other one says, "Yeah, I didn't know half this stuff" as they're both madly scribbling away at their notes.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. DAMN!
Go Difi!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. What happened after the "silence?" Did they move on to another Senator
so that Gonzales was off the hook? Was there follow up after that bombshell?

Thanks much for this post. Now what will the Senate do with this juicy tidbit that Bush doesn't have "War Powers?" Or, does the fact that he thinks he has them enough. :eyes:

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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. He said...
"Well, it's not that it's less than a declaration of war, it's just that we couldn't work with that particular provision..."

He sounded very weak -- she moved on after a few followups. He never gave it a really good refutation. But you should have heard the silence. I swear it was 10-15 seconds long!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Time then for the Senate to take some REAL action to find out
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 01:29 PM by KoKo01
just what exactly Bush has done without the authority of the War Powers Act which he has been touting he has supreme unitary authority as the Commander-in-Chief.

I can't understand why no one has challenged this in the courts before...although didn't a couple of House or Senate members try to challenge his War Powers in the last year and it never went anywhere?

Let's hope some lightbulbs went off in some heads during that silence ...down in the House where some challenge would have to come. Many of us feel he went into Iraq illegally and that the UN Resolutions and Iraq Resolution he claims authorized him wouldn't hold up as "War Powers" authorized by Congress.

Thanks for the info!
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. Pants bonfire!!!!!
Gonzo: "Yes, but we didn't have a declaration of war, only an authorization to use military force..."

Gonzo: "Well, it's not that it's less than a declaration of war..."

They have to lie, they have no choice. If they told the truth about their motives and actions they would be imprisoned.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
90. Nope
Americans are so fucking stupid that they would let these assholes get away with it. :hurts:
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
108. AUMF's given by Congress in Sept '01 and Oct '02
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 11:29 PM by EVDebs
predicated upon TRUTHFUL circumstances and situations under the embedded War Powers Act

War Powers Act of 1973
www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/warpow.html

"SEC. 2. (a)
It is the purpose of this joint resolution to fulfill the intent of the framers of the Constitution of the United States and insure that the collective judgement of both the Congress and the President will apply to the introduction of United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicate by the circumstances, and to the continued use of such forces in hostilities or in such situations.
SEC. 2. (b)
Under article I, section 8, of the Constitution, it is specifically provided that the Congress shall have the power to make all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution, not only its own powers but also all other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
SEC. 2. (c)
The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."

Note the important words are circumstances and situations and the word "clearly". The act logically implies truthful circumstances and situations (d'oh !).

The text of the AUMF of Sept 2001
http://news.findlaw.com/wp/docs/terrorism/sjres23.es.ht...

and

The text of the AUMF of Oct 2002
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf

please note that Congress abdicated ITS authority unconstitutionally to the President 'as he determines'. So, if a situation or circumstance is patently a lie or fabrication, it's O.K. by the current Congress to proceed since the President determines what truth is/isn't. How lovely.



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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. ummmm... the WH prepared a signing statement to take care of that...
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 01:19 PM by speedoo
minor detail.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

:sarcasm:
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. i've been SAYING we're not "at war"
since before the invasion. make him come to congress for a declaration of war. like it says in that pesky constitution.

it will be interesting to see whom the * admin would declare war ON. terror? al queda? iraq?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
55. We certainly aren't anymore. Handing over sovereignty to Iraq in 2004 made
the IWR null and void, moot, feckless, worthless, obsolete.

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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
75. Right. But the implications of that won't
be covered in the media either.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Good for her...
it's about time.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Beautiful!
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:18 PM
Original message
President Bush: No War Powers according to U.S. Attorney General
Well, there goes another one of Bush's bullshit spin excuses. He doesn't really have any war powers, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT AT WAR!

So, why in the hell is he spying on us? Why is he listening to phone conversations, reading E-mail, monitoring bank transactions, and all the other crap he's doing? He has no business AND NO AUTHORITY to be doing any of it!

Congress did not give him Carte Blanche when they gave the go ahead to use military force.

George Bush = Criminal.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:23 PM
Original message
Hell he's been doing that since Feb 2001
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
30. Apparently so. IMPEACH! IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!!! n/m
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
74. it won't matter until the Corporate Media deems it appropriate for public
discussion.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent!
:applause:
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Priceless!
Gonzo obviously flunked Logic 101. And good on DiFi for entraping him in his own rope!
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. She just won back some points in my book for that one!
:rofl:
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. Brilliant! Should be the headline in every newspaper tomorrow...but
of course, it won't get mentioned!
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. And the impeachment starts when???????
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
25. Excellent! Way to go Senator Feinstein!
Gonzo got logic? I did not think so.

K & R

:kick:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. The sad truth is that Bushco doesn't give a shit what Congress thinks.
Couldn't care less. I'm sure over drinks tonight bush* and henchmen will laugh and call them names and basically not give a rat's ass over what congress cares about or does, they are WAY above them.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. When she's good she's very good, but when she's bad...
...she is so frustrating, so inconsistent.

Well, this is good. I can't wait to see video.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. Is DiFi waking up from her nap and deciding to do her job?
She has actually sent me an email and a letter in the last month. Never mind how many I have sent her since selection 2000 that have gone unanswered and unheeded.
It must be election year.
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
105. Why, yes, it IS an election year for Senator DiFi...n/t
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TiredNow Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. Do you suppose there is any chance that someone in the media
will pick this up and run with it? Or will it end up as a footnote in the newspaper on page A32?

Will anyone in the legislative branch run with it (besides Russ Feingold, who may be the only true remaining public servant in public office- :yourock:)

Man, there it is right there! Buschco claims war powers to justify multiple illegalities, not the least of which being warrantless wiretaps, but admits that we are not legally at war.

How is that not worse than lying about getting a knob-job in the oval office by an intern? Isn't it a little worse?

It is very easy to see the damage caused by the Bushco improprieties, to the people, the institutions of government and to the Constitution.

When will anyone in the media grow a spine, defy corporate headquarters and start reporting the truth just for the public good and the pursuit of the truth?

The general public is apathetic because it doesn't know any better.

How can we get this information in the main stream?!!??





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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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RedStateShame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. OK, lemme guess what Sneaky Gonzales says next....
"That depends on what your definitiobn of war is."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. AH! YOU WIN!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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m_welby Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. how bad a lawyer is gonzo?
To get blindsided like that is something I'd expect from a student, not from someone (anyone0 who actually passed the bar.


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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I was thinking much the same thing
I sure wouldn't want Gonzo as *my* lawyer! What a moran.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #41
112. And I don't want him as my Attorney General!
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. Ass kissers are not picked because of their brains............
they are picked by how well they kiss ass :think:


Btw, that would be a scary thought if the Dems took over the House and gave Conyers a chairmanship with subpoena powers :scared:
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. he's below-average
even among Bush hacks, he ranks way down there.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
He's sinking faster than a rock in a river. The people's lawyer is a little booby.
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Reckon Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
40. Now that was brilliant.
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 02:18 PM by Reckon
This guy is on the correct course!

I would love to know what was said after: (whispers in the chamber...)?

edit: "The emperor is not wearing cloths?????"
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R for DiFi
She's not my favorite Senator, and she does things that truly tick me off. But she occasionally does something wonderful, and I want to keep her!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Busholini, the Silverspoon Sociopath violated the Law
at leat 30 times. Will there be any acountabilty for those Felonies?
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. I wish I knew the answer to that, Disturbed
He's sure gotten away with it this far. :(
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
121. Yes, Bush has gotten away with illegal behavior and it continues.
So who is going to start impeachment proceedings?
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #47
116. Only if we regain control of at least one house of Congress this year.
And even if we do there might not ever be a reckoning. But without Democrats controlling either the House or Senate, there will be ice skating in hell before The Decider is ever taken to task.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. Incompetence seethes from every pore of the Bush Administration.
Every pore, every orifice...
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
46. Brilliant
caught like a rat.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
48. FINALLY!!!! Somebody points this out!
He said this in the last hearing I watched him "testify" in, too! NOONE called him on it. He stated very clearly, "There has not been a declaration of war." Then, he immediately followed it with a statement that included the words 'War on Terror'.

IIRC, that was the same hearing that he "testified" without taking an oath swearing to tell the truth to the Committee before he made any statements.

Was he sworn in today? (I only saw a small part of the hearing.)
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #48
83. I could not find anything from today.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
49. at which point Gonzalez
shouted "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you zany kids!"

or, alternate ending:

at which point Gonzalez shouted: "MUHHAHAHAHA! SO, you have solved the riddle!! But it is far too late for humanity! mUHAHAHAH!!"
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Even if they "solved the riddle"
Will solving the riddle really matter when most of the media is in their pocket? I mean, if Tweety can spin Vernon Robinson's horrific racist & homophobic web ad as "tough," will something like this even register?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. Never give up.
NGU.


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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
73. Yes, it will.
But it will take months. I have seen a lot of these kind of developments. First, the exchange occurs without a whisper from the media. Then the blogosphere gets humming. Some freeper says "but we are at war!!", and the anti-Bush crowd posts this exchange. Randi goes on Lou Dobbs and does the same. AAR talks about it every time a freeper calls and claims we are at war (it is, after all, their favorite talking point). People on DU "tell" their friends, neighbors (actually, if it is me, I corner them and force them to look at the evidence). Eventually everyone knows that we are not technically at war except the "backwash", and that Bush has no war powers.

Three years ago, the MSM controlled ALL information in this country. The blogosphere was here and just as effective at uncovering truth, but no one was listening. Nowadays, wild assertions by the press are not as pervasive, not as effective because there is another conduit of information. It is a slow path, but it is a path nonetheless.

The MSM is not on our side, but it is mattering less and less every day. We should be proud of ourselves for that.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Already posted to mine, and I sent links to my AIM list.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #57
78. the short answer is
youre right. none of it matters. I share your lack of hope entirely.
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MAX 1 Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. B I N G O
No shit Sherlock!!!!!
Haven't we been stressing this oh-so inconvenient fact for some time now? That the AUMF IS NOT a declaration of war and therefore the "War Powers Act" aren't in play? This is only the beginning. Let's hope, pray, write Diane, that she continue on that line of thought/questioning. Accountability IS paramount.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. If it makes the evening news it's progress
let's us hope that we have NEWS tonite
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
54. Good job Feinstein. Still don't trust what you'll do with this, but good
job of getting the statement out there.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. Poltical doublspeak and outright arrogance in the face of law
only gets you so far. However, I wonder if this will actually hurt the Pretzelnut. This country is so friggin' brainwashed.
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Thoreau-Ly Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. Congress Needs a Couple of Transplants
Canastas and spines for all. Though the women typically wear the former than the men, however, when they do.

There used to be Repugnanticans who wouldn't stand for dickheads like Gonzales and these clearly, clearly impeachable offenses. I got to see Warren Rudman make Robert MacFarland sweat, heavily, over Iran-Contra.

Gonzales has no business being there. Not qualified.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200307/berlow
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
58. Someone HAS to get this video on the net.
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TexasChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
59. Ohhh....saaamaackkkk!
Did somebody have to lift up Gonzo after that smackdown?
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
60. Ohhhhh my! Ohmyohmyohmy. Outstanding! n/t
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
61. Excellent!
In fact it was NOT a declaration of war and in fact he did NOT have war powers.

I vote to impeach.
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
62. And freeper heads exploded everywhere.
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Humor_In_Cuneiform Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
63. Way to GO DiFi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! K&R n/t
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
66. My first reaction
is that this is meaningless and no one will give a damn. But on further consideration, it MIGHT be a great quote IF Dems take Congress. If not, refer to my first reaction.
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
68. Whoa, front page
for the first time... I'm awed... thank you DU gods...

Now if ANY OTHER BLOG would pick this up, no? :)
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
69. I have been saying this for years
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 04:15 PM by TechBear_Seattle
Either we are at war, in which case the Geneva Conventions are fully in place and the War Powers Act is in effect (expired, actually, making Bush demonstrably guilty of breaking the law)

OR

We we are not at war, in which case the Junta is in serious constitutional trouble because of actions it has taken in the name of war.

You can't have it both ways.

It is refreshing to see one of our elected quislings FINALLY decide to stop being a criminal collaborator, and pray that Feinstein won't be the last.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #69
92. Isn't it refreshing?
I did not go as far as you, but I kept wondering why people on our side would keep referring to the 72 hour period in regard to getting a warrant. BushCo kept going back to being at war and NO ONE seemed to think to say that there was the 15 day period then. It seemed that everyone seemed to think "oh, we're at war and Congress never made a provision for that so let's examine the program and figure something out." Nothing needed to be figured out. People just needed to pull their heads out of their asses. There is NO excuse for not getting a warrant, war or no war. :mad:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
76. Well, not ALL is forgiven - but that's a good first step
What the hell took DiFi so long?
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
77. BushCo Strives To Create "Gray Areas"
Like the status of the prisoners at Gitmo, they aren't this, they aren't that, they just are a new class of people with no human rights whatsoever. Likewise with the war and the evesdropping, they refuse to do anything straight-up, sneaky bastards.
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
79. Anyone think this deserves some flowers sent to DiFi? n/t
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #79
96. If I weren't totally broke, I'd be in...just to encourage her to continue
to do her damn job, and maybe with a little consistency!
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
80. Is Al retarded?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
81. Amazing event. She deserves some real credit for this.
Surely this isn't the last we'll hear of this. It's a breakthrough. Real journalists would do something about it.

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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
84.  local politician will be coming to my political science class on Thursday
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 06:55 PM by notadmblnd
She's a republican candidate for U. S. House of Represenatives. I'd like to ask her a question about her position on this. But I'm worried that this question makes sense.

In light of Attorney General Gonzoles testamony to the Senate Judiciary committee this past Tuesday where he testified that there was no declaration of war, only authorization to use military force. Does this change your view on whether the president, under the "War Powers Act", has the authority to engage in the operation of survelence programs of the American people?

Does this make sense? Do you think it will be viewed as a trick question? Do I need to reword it? Should I be able to explain the correct answer to the question? Anyone, please feel free to critique and provide input. Stop me if I'm going to look like a fool if I ask this in class.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #84
107. print out the above DiFi smaks down Gonzo exchange above
for notes.

Your question makes sense to me since i have read the exchange, so you should be able to reference it if needed.

good luck, and time the silence <insert truck driving through sound here> before she attempts to reply.

dp
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #107
120. thanks, will do.
nt
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
85. Well damn, it's about time someone said that no one declared war!
Thanks DiFi.

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
86. Good job, Di!
:you rock:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
87. Wow, someone decided to use a bit of common sense...
It's good to see!
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
88. "Bout time someone said it. Did the senate hear it? Will they act?
Wake me up when they give a damn.
ZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzz....
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
91. Link? Video?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
93. All will be forgiven when she stops profiting off the war.
But I WILL acknowledge that was a great catch.

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kymar57 Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. saw nothing on MSM not even pbs
OK Somebody out there with way more skills than me can find a video link for this. I'm not lazy just incompetent
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
94. *clunk*- The sound of the Repuke argument falling off wheels.
Can't have it both ways.
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Fermezlabush Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
97. Why silence? Why not "You broke the law?" Senate is for shit!
Reminds me of Caesar's senate (before the Ides of March)
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
98. Gee...
When she gets it right, she absolutely nails it!

:bounce: :thumbsup: :kick: :headbang: :applause:
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
100. Logic!
It'll get you everytime.

K&R
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
101. Can he be arrested now?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
102. I smell a Top Ten Conservative Idiots entree
looks like Sh*t ...tastes like sh*t ...smells like sh*t ...ooops he stepped in it :hurts:
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
103. Your Powers are weak ,
Your powers are weak, junior.
(scuba regulator sounds)
You should not have come back.
Spammy, I know.
But I just had to say : nice shot!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
104. OMG...he didn't get the memo!
THAT is fantastic! :woohoo:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
106. LOL
Way to go Diane
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
109. Good...it's part of the record.
These are criminals we are dealing with. These are serious crimes against the Office and the Constitution. The 1st order of business for the new Congress should be getting a bill of impeachment onto the floor of the House.
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KBlagburn Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
110. This could be the winning AD for all democrats this fall........
Every democrat running for house and senate should have a campaign ad with this in it.
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rhosgobel Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
113. Video is on CSPAN; more complete transcript?
The full video of the Judiciary committee hearing is on C-span; it's currently at the top of their 109th Congress page (labeled "Senate Judiciary Cmte. Hearing with Atty. Gen. Alberto Gonzales (07/18/2006)").

I believe the section referred to by the OP begins at 2:24:14 in the C-span video. However, the specifics of what's said differs from the OP's text. Here's my transcript of what is (I believe) the exchange referred to in the OP, though if I missed the proper interchange I apologize.

Feinstein (2:24:14): I know that Senator Schumer sent you a letter and received a response from Will Moschella asking you to explain why the reasoning of Hamdan does not also apply to the NSA domestic surveillance program. In the letter to Senator Schumer, Mr. Moschella stated that DOJ's initial impression is that the court's opinion does not affect our analysis of the terrorist surveillance program. Because, in part, Congress "left open the question of what rules should apply to electronic surveillance during wartime." Now, Congress did not leave the question open. FISA explicitly says that warrantless surveillance can continue for only 15 days after a declaration of war. Now that you've had an opportunity to examine Hamdan, is it still DOJ's opinion that it does not affect the legality of the TSP.

Gonzales: Of course there's been no declaration of war here, so we can't take advantage of that particular provision. Our judgment is that it does not affect the legality of the TSP program. But let me explain why ...

Feinstein: If I might just interrupt you. Then you're saying, clearly, that the AUMF does not carry the full constitution weight of a declaration of war.

Gonzales: (pauses) Yes, that is correct. When you declare war, that triggers diplomatic relations, that maybe nullifies treaties. So, there's a big difference. There's a reason why Congress has not declared war in 60 years. But they've authorized the use of force several times. Clearly there's a difference. Yes.

Feinstein: But you're creating a caveat now, and saying that the 15 days does not extend to the AUMF.

Gonzales: No, what I said was "we can't take advantage of that provision under FISA because there's been no declaration of war." Maybe I misunderstood your question. I'm sorry, Senator.

Feinstein: I think that Congress did prepare for that eventuality by providing the 15 days, and you're saying, "Well, it really doesn't apply." Well, in essence, you're restricting the AUMF, which I think should be restricted, so you are in essence agreeing with my point.

Gonzales: Well, I agree with your point that the the Authorization to Use Military Force is not a declaration of war. That is certainly true.

Feinstein: All right. So the president's plenary powers are somewhat restricted then. (2:27:07; Feinstein continues on to more questions)
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #113
118. Rockin. I hope there's video...
that "pauses" hardly gives the flavor of what happened.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
114. Everyone archive this
Save it on your hard disk, print it out and put it in your family album.

THIS is the piece of evidence that PROVES this administration is guilty of a major crime.

This may even be used at the Impeachment hearings in 2008.
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Kaotac Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
115. Ha.
That's pretty funny, though also unsettling at the same time.
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helpman Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
117. Wow
She nailed him
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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
119. Well Duh...... nt
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
122. VIDEO HERE:
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #122
123. thanks HH! nt
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #122
124. Heh...sputtering like a little boy with his hand in the cookie jar...
Is it war or is it not, you pathetic POS? Answer the question...
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
125. Don't you just hate it when you
are breaking the law, and a Senator shoots holes in your theories...?


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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-19-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
127. Watched it last night on replay--the look on her face is great!
She starts out with that dumb girl act (yes, almost all women know how to do that one, so I recognized it for the act it was), and he got this cocky look on his face like he was going to score. Then she pulled the rug out and had the best look on her face--a look of someone who just won an amazing hand at poker. He got this "Oh, shit!" look on his face and started stumbling around. He even tried to say that he might have misunderstood her question--as if!

It was great! Of course, most people would miss it, so I don't think much will come of it.
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