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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:34 PM
Original message
Islamofascism is a filthy putrid ideology
Edited on Sun Jul-16-06 11:35 PM by Proud2BAmurkin
So is Judeofascism and Christofascism.

Israeli Jewish conservatives, Al Qaeda, and the rePUKE right wing are all the same FILTHY death culture ideology and no one should sympathize with ANY of them.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I really don't want to get into this ...BUT--
"islamofascim" and all the others are utterly ridiculous memes, IMO :hi:
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What exactly does it mean?
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. MY religion for me and thee or else
scumbag idea of "religion"
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. the terms?
They are, IMO, disingenuous attempts to make it an easy situation to understand for viewers/readers in America. I don't think it's reflective of the nature of any of the afore mentioned religions in reality and in the current situation in Israel and the M.E.

IMO, of course.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It's reflective of the nature of the EXTREMISTS in all of the above
That's what Islamofacism and Judeofascism and Christofascism are.

Members of those religions who want to create laws forcing everyone else to comply with them.
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. What I'm saying is...
...I do not think that they reflect the actual situation that they are being used in.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Religious fundamentalism of all types is f..king up the world...
It's going to be the end for all of us if it's not stopped.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. You have made a very profound, powerful and bold statement
that, in my opinion, is not the slightest bit overblown. If we can survive the short term by throwing them out of power, we might make it.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. I blame 99% of all of humankind's past and present problems on
fundamentalism....and it doesn't matter which one. They are all identical.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. If the human race is fortunate and smart enough to survive another
thousand years, it will because the "power buttons" of governments have been taken away from the religiously oriented thinkers and placed into the hands of people who follow objective survival processes.

Circumstances of the past 2,000 years have favored the ones who fabricate their beliefs from out of the fears and desires with no verifiable proof whatsoever. But, conditions have changed, especially in weaponry, communications, transportation, population and the environment. These new set of possibilities and challenges no longer favor the advocates of "superstition". Ultimately Nature will punish the stupid with annihilation and reward objective intellect.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Intolerance stinks. (eom)
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blue sky at night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. when we can learn there is no them
Only us, then we have found God. God is.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. actually, i'd call 'islamofascism' one downright stupid label.
like fox news' 'homicide bomber'. meaningless rhetoric.
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I agree. And it blurs the very important definition of Fascism...
Fascism is a very specific political merging of corporate and state interests (read, political right wing. OBL and his crew are radical religious extremists, not necessarily fascist. Accepting a juxtaposition of islam and fascism diminishes the importance of fascism as a political ideology and makes it more difficult for us to clearly identify and label as it creeps into and overturns our (relatively) democratic society.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. AQ has its roots in nazism

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Fascist%20Roots%20of%20Al-Qaeda.html

Al-Qa'ida is the product of an Arab fascist group that was set up in the 1920s, funded by Adolf Hitler, used by British, French and American Intelligence after WWII, and later was supported by the Saudis and reactivated by the CIA.
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PsychoDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Perhaps a better label ...
Maybe a better label would be "Islamic Nationalism" ?

Fascism as you pointed out is a specific political ideology while those like Osamma Bin Ladin are seeking to impose a specific Islamic national identity that does not reflect the political system of fascism.

Peace.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. not entirely meaningless
see the Muslim Brotherhood

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Fascist%20Roots%20of%20Al-Qaeda.html

"Al-Qa'ida is the product of an Arab fascist group that was set up in the 1920s, funded by Adolf Hitler, used by British, French and American Intelligence after WWII, and later was supported by the Saudis and reactivated by the CIA."

<more>
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
14. Regarding fundamentalist conservative Judaism
and I'm not a Jew and I'm also hopelessly ignorant about Islam and the Evangelical Christian movement, but the one difference that strikes me is that Jews are not trying to convert the rest of the world to their religion.

I do not support at all what Israel is doing to the Palestinians or in Lebanon, but it seems to me that even the most radical conservative Jews have much more modest goals than the followers of the other two religions. Maybe I'm wrong about this and that's fine, because I know little about this subject, but it seems to me that even the extremists among Jews will be happy to just have their piece of land and carry on with their lives without trying to force everyone else to believe the way they believe. They're not after world conquest and the subjugation of others to their values. Of course, that "piece of land" in the Holy Land is the cause of a lot of death, destruction, and injustice no doubt. But of the three religions you mention, it seems to me that if you eliminated all but one, the world would be better if only the Jewish fundamentalists existed. That's not to say that there wouldn't be problems, because the situation in the Middle East cuts deeper than just religion and values. It has to do with language-based, racial, ethnic, and cultural hatred on both sides as well. That's why maybe just describing the fanaticism in terms of Judeofascism, Islamofasciam, and Christo-facism is not enough.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Jewish fundamentalists
Here's an article written by, of all people, Michael Ledeen and his wife, Barbara, discussing Christian and Jewish fundamentalists. In light of your post, thought you might be interested in it. I have read that Ledeen and his wife are/were involved in the Temple Mount movement (I cannot confirm this with a decent source).


A CASUAL OBSERVER might be excused for believing that nearly all of the recent violence in Israel has been part of the usual cycle of Arab-Israeli conflict. The observer would be wrong. Though some of the recent acts ... seem to be the work of extremist Israeli nationalists, much of the destructive intent is fueled by a mixture of nationalist politics, messianic longing, and the search for roots. In fact, some of the current extremism is a direct outgrowth of the ancient forecast of the Apocalypse... The targets of the most spectacular incidents over the past months have been Muslim authorities and the area they control in Jerusalem, but for the most part the people who planned or participated in the attacks are the violent fringe of an informal movement that stretches from the United States to the Middle East, and encompasses millions of evangelical Christians as well as some Israeli Jews. This unlikely coalition rests upon a common belief that the Final Days are upon us. For the Christians, this means that the Second Coming of Christ is imminent; for the Jews, the Messiah is about to arrive. Both believe that the crucial spot for the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecies is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, because that is where the Temple of Solomon is to be rebuilt. According to the fundamentalist understanding of Christian prophecy, three great events are required for the Second Coming: Israel must be a Jewish nation; Jerusalem must be a Jewish city; and the Temple must be rebuilt. Today only the third condition remains to be met. Though most Jews believe that the building of the Temple will occur after the arrival of the Messiah, a growing number of deeply religious Jews believe that efforts to rebuild the Temple, and other steps for its proper functioning, should be made before the Messianic Age.

~snip~

On March 10, 1983, more than forty Jews suspected of planning to penetrate the Temple Mount were arrested in Jerusalem. ... Their legal fees--amounting to $50,000--were paid by wealthy Christian evangelicals from Texas. Less than a year later, only last January 27, Israeli security forces thwarted an assault on the Mount ... There is good reason to believe that the money for this group, the so-called Lifta Band, also came from Christian sources in America ... the suspects began to be cooperative only after an Israel officer had "scolded them for using a Bible published by a Christian group as their religious source." ... At the Temple Mount the religious passions of the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religions intersect as at no other on earth. Not only is the Mount the site of Solomon's Temple, it is also where Abraham came to sacrifice his son Isaac; where Jesus taught, and threw the money-changers out of the Temple; from where Mohammed ascended through the seven Heavens into the presence of Allah... Except for a few years during the Crusades, the Temple Mount has been under Muslim control since the conquest of Jerusalem almost fourteen hundred years ago... Political pragmatism, however, is unlikely to withstand the messianic passions that are directed at the Temple Mount... The Israeli courts have generally denied the right of Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, but there are signs of change there, too. ... The driving force behind the Temple Mount movement, however, is the American evangelical community, some 45.5 million strong. The evangelicals met regularly with former Prime minister Menachem Begin over the years, reportedly urging him to rebuild the Temple, and they raced to Washington this spring to endorse the proposal to move the American Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, citing Biblical prophecies of the day in the near future when Jerusalem will become the capital of the world. ... The most visible link between the evangelicals and the drive to rebuild the Temple is found in the Jerusalem Temple Foundation in Los Angeles, the latest of several organizations (and the only such group in the United States) designed to put pressure on the Israeli government to limit the Waqf's control over the Temple Mount. The chairman and executive director of this ecumenical foundation are Terry Risenhoover and Douglas Krieger, two Christian evangelicals who have the means, the energy, and the network of friends necessary to catalyze a mass movement (Risenhoover is a multimillionaire, owner of a company called Alaska Land Leasing that is currently planning searches for oil in Judea and Samaria). ... ... Deloach's senior pastor at the Second Baptist Church in Houston (the switchboard operator answers calls by saying, "The amazing second"), H. Edwin Young, is likely to be the next president of the 13 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, America's largest Protestant body. Both pastors accompany groups to Israel and take them to the Temple Mount and to the Jewish yeshivahs training priests for the Temple. Deloach is candid about his objectives: "We will do whatever is right and politically expedient to make that Temple Mount free for all three religions." ...

~snip~

Some of the members of these committees, yeshivahs, and groups are simply interested in the historical or scientific aspects of the Temple Mount. But many--and their number is growing--are working for a Jewish presence on the Mount, and eventually the rebuilding of the Temple. Some of these people are highly orthodox, and firmly believe that the Messiah will soon arrive. Others are primarily Israeli nationalists, who view Muslim control of the Temple Mount as an insult to the Zionist Dream. But in the end the religious and nationalistic themes are hard to distinguish from each other, and the effect is the same: Waqf control over the Temple Mount is being challenged. ...BY FAR the most dynamic of the challengers is the Israeli section of the Jerusalem Temple Foundation, headed by Stanley Goldfoot, a South African Jew who came to Israel in the '30s and fought in the Stern Gang during the postwar period. A passionate nationalist, a highly skilled rhetorician, and a man of demonstrated activism, Goldfoot believes that the Temple Mount belongs to Israel, and to Israel alone. ... Goldfoot sees the Christians as logical allies, for he believes that "Christian fundamentalists are the real modern-day Zionists"; in Goldfoot's view, it is the christians above all who realize that "we are coming to a crucial period in earth's history, and they want to help fulfill prophecy and thus hasten the coming of the Messiah." ...It is thus not so surprising that those who planned to sabotage the Temple Mount in January carried Christian versions of the Old Testament, for the Temple Mount movement is based on a messianic vision that, at least in its first stages, is common to both Jewish and Christian religions. To be sure, there is a basic disagreement, but it is one that will only be resolved in the Final Days. As one Jewish leader put it to us last summer in Jerusalem, "They believe that once the Temple is built, Jesus will come again. We expect the Messiah to come for the first time. Let's build the Temple, and see what he looks like."

~snip~

Historically, messianic movements tend to be strongest in periods of intense internal turmoil and external threat. Both of these elements are present in contemporary Israel, and the Israelis' anxieties are largely shared by the American "Christian Zionists." All we know about the Temple Mount suggests that it will grow in interest and become a source of conflict, with international consequences that are hard to predict. Up until the arrests of the twenty-five extremists, the Israeli government either ignored the Temple Mount movement or attempted to co-opt it, but neither approach was successful. It remains to be seen whether the arrests will dampen the ardor of the zealots. With the redemption of mankind and the fulfillment of prophecy at stake, arrests are transformed into temporary setbacks, extremism becomes righteous action, and political considerations pale into such insignificance that even conservative Christians and radical Jewish nationalists can become allies.


Source Citation: Ledeen, Michael, and Barbara Ledeen. "The Temple Mount plot: what do Christian and Jewish fundamentalists have in common?." The New Republic 190 (June 18, 1984): 20(4). It is from Lexis-Nexis so I have no link.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. If only I didn't feel as if these names have been made up
Islamo-fascism. Christo-fascism. "whatever grinds my butt to the bone"-fascism.

However, some modes of behavior are uncool regardless of left or right.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. Umm, stay away from jingoistic labels please
Those are more fittingly used over at FR, where blind hate and lack of intelligence walk hand in hand. Islamofascism is a RW meme make up to work the freepers up into an orgasmic froth of hate. It is a false meme, and not appropriate in intelligent company. Same goes for the other two that you mention.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Do you realize
how often these labels are used around here in regard to the right?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-17-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Frankly this is the first time I've seen these specific labels
Used on DU at all. Yes, there are insulting labels used by liberals regarding conservatives and vice versa. That's politics. However I think tarring an entire group of people because of the religious beliefs is beneath us. One can always use the term "islamic fundementalist" or "RW fundementalist" and get the same idea across without having to resort to tarring and insulting an entire religion.

As far as insulting the right goes, I really have little sympathy for them. Their blind belief in neo-con politics and their politics of hate and fear emptied my soul of any sympathy for them whatsoever.
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