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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:34 AM
Original message
Germany has banned protests during Bush's visit
German authorities have barred all open-air public gatherings and protest marches in the old part of the town. The ban will take effect on the evening of July 12 and will last until one hour after Bush's departure on July 13.

German pacifist and leftist groups are planning to stage a major demonstration during the Bush visit -- titled 'Not Welcome, Mr. President'. Thousands of protestors are expected to attend the demo from all over Germany.



A court in the northeast Germany has upheld a partial demonstration ban for the duration of the upcoming two-day visit by US President George W. Bush, DPA reported Tuesday.

The administrative court in the town of Greifswald stated in its decision that the gathering ban was 'basically legal'.


How do you like that. Illegal acts are being described as basically legal to accomodate BushCo.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Does anyone know what "F**k that noise" is, in German? n/t
PB
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. God bless google
Bumsen Sie diese Gerusche
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. LOL! Thanks! n/t
PB
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yep. We can't have democracy at a tyrant's picnic.
It spoils the mood.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not an expert on German Constitutional law, but I don't see how this
is legal there. Germany has very strong protections on free speech (with a few minor, Nazi-related exceptions).

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. It is not legal in Germany
that is why there is a now a new category called 'basically legal'.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Do you have a link for this by any chance?
I'm going to see if I can find something in the German press regarding this.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes. sorry, I forgot
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks!
:hi:
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Sounds like a Bush thing . Specially since he signed a thing
he does not have to follow the law even when he just sign red the bill. Crazy and I wonder if the Germans will take this?
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. My guess would be: they have declared another demonstration/event
Two demonstrations can't be at the same place and time. This is done on a first-come-first-serve base.
Also the police has to state that they're able to maintain security at a given place, otherwise demonstrations can be moved to other locations.

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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deutchland, Duetchland, Uber Alles......
Global Fascism is what we are looking at.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That's pretty offensive
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. "with a few minor, Nazi related exceptions"
It was a reference, nothing more.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sieg heil mutherfuckers!
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Also very offensive
I think it's very hurtful for you to call modern Germans Nazis.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. You want to point out where I called "modern Germans Nazis?"
Ich warte Ihre Antwort. Btw, lebte ich dort und meine Familie ist deutsch. Und dir?


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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. The article is about Germany and your title is an offensive phrase
I'm glad you didn't mean to imply what I thought you did.

Freut mich dass du auch Deutsch sprechen kannst. :)
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. It seems to me that the article is about
How Germany is forsaking its democratic principles and returning to fascism for the sake of Bush's visit.
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Easy Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. I wouldn't call it fascism
The thing is, this is just another aspect of today's "absolute security" fetish, added by Bush's desire for his own comfort bubble. And since Merkel would never, ever risk anything with her beloved authority figure, she implements whatever is decreed.

Inter arma enim silent leges, and Bush carries the spirit of war wherever he goes.

~Easy
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
46. Well,
Edited on Thu Jul-13-06 05:20 PM by Kellanved
For once, there's hardly anything special about it. During protocoll events a certain distance between protests and event is required. It's the standard procedure in all countries and with all events.
Protestors attending the queens birthday? won't happen.
Protetstors attending a presidential inauguration? won't happpen.
300 meters away? no problem.

The wannabe protestors are right to point out the breach of free speech, but it is hardly special, nor difficult to understand why it's done. Also, there's a ton of precedence.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. who would have thought that the next president to get a blow job
in office would be getting it from the new German chancellor. If I were her I'd also ban blue dresses during the visit. :shrug:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hmmm, I wonder if bush is gonna give Merkel the same lecture
on the right to dissent and press freedom that he has been giving Putin? Ummmm......don't think so.

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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. Going back to their facsist roots I see.
:eyes:
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long_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. Why do they love America?
:sarcasm:

Seriously, what a bunch of goddamn pussies. Not the Germans, even though I'm surprised at this action, but Bush and his entourage. Must...shelter...Golden Boy...from...criticism.
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Apparently it is because of the violence
Protests in Europe become extremely violent at times. These people will start a full-blown riot over a World Cup match.

I am all for free speech. But I don't support the use of violence in protesting a war. That is the king of hypocrisy right there.

We bash the government for using murder to prove that murder is wrong. Yet we go out into the streets and use violence to try to convince the government that war is wrong. It just doesn't work.
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. yeah, those protesters need to stop using cluster bombs, chain guns,
Edited on Thu Jul-13-06 11:51 AM by Gabi Hayes
white phosphorus....stuff like that, damn them to hell

great analogy!

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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Rocks, Molotov Cocktails, etc...
You start using those things, you give the government a perfect excuse to shut your protest down.

In America, you have no right to start a riot under any circumstance...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. And it must be the police that light the tires on fire and flip cars?
Remember the protests at the RNC convention in 2004? Who was it that was setting tires on fire? The police?

In New York after the Iraq war began, protesters pulled police down from their horses and started beating them. People started throwing rocks at the UN buildings for passing Res 1441.

Come on, dude. You are trying to blame the police for every violent act that occurs in a riot? Both sides CAN be blamed for any violence that occurs.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. In any given protest...
it's usually police that trigger violence by attacking non-violent protestors.
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Ask my father, he was beaten by police in Chicago, 1968.
Ask the protesters in Oakland who were peaceful. . .the Freepers got happy when they saw the wounds the police laid on peaceful protesters.

You want to ban because of what MIGHT happen, not what is happening! On that, you are wrong, so is the German government and so is anyone who agrees with the actions of the German government.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Where's the violence?
The right of the citizens to gather and protest is pretty well-established. I don't see "violence" inherent in a gathering of citizens, yet you seem to be pretty confident that violence will erupt. Do you know for a fact that the gathering will use violence? Or is that just a guess? Should the rights of the citizenry be curtailed on a guess?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. Deleted message
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
45. LOL! Do you have proof that I have used violence to try to change people's
minds?" - That's quite an allegation.

"But people who start violence deserves to go to jail." - Show us the DUers who claim otherwise.

"And if you think you need violence in order for people to listen, then you obviously have never heard of people like Ghandi or MLK Jr. They were able to provoke change without violence. If you feel you need to hurt people or property to get your point across, then you are not very intelligent and obviously a poor debater." - Here you go:



"And in my opinion, you are no worse than the fascist government you claim to be against." - I am certainly "no worse," but I cannot say the same about you.

"You are using violence to try to change people's minds." - Prove it! Show us where I have acted out violently.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. That's a bunch of BS right there...
I have a friend who is a cop and he told all about how riots begin and spread. It is part of their training.

95% of the people at a protest are there for peacefully purposes. However that 5% are determined to cause trouble. Police are trained to detain those 5% whenever they are found. Because if they start making trouble, it quickly goes out of control. All the people protesting peacefully end up running home scared. The people that remain join the trouble-makers and all of a sudden, you have a riot...not a protest.

And you have no right to start a riot. Read the constitution, Pal. It gives you the right to assemble peacefully. But if you start using the violence, the constitution doesn't protect your free speech anymore. And that's how the supreme court interprets it as well. Why is this? Because you are putting innocent people in danger and destroying public and private property.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Police are trained to begin & start riots?
That explains a lot.

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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. To reply, what you said is BS
Fear of what might happen isn't an excuse to stop protesting and ban it. . .if you think that, you hate freedom, America and everything the Constitution stands for!
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I never said I agree with the ban
All I stated was that violence in past protests is the reason they banned it. And I stated also that protesters are sometimes to blame for the violence.

However, there seems to be people here who think either violence never happens in a protest, OR think that the police causes all of it. Both arguments are entirely false.

And even if the police start it, it gives you no right to escalate the situation. That destroys any moral high ground you are trying to achieve. Because when people see a riot on TV, guess who they are going to sympathize with??? The police. And they are going to think YOU are nutty ones.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. The World Cup was just played in Germany....
I don't recall even one riot.

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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-16-06 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
50. Kick
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SammyBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
23. Ah. . .and that funny little name with the box mustache smiles on Germany
once again. . .what was his name? Had a bad haircut. . .killed 6 million Jews.

Oh yes. . .here he is!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
41. Isn't Democracy a nice thing?
:sarcasm:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. Merkel
will soon watch her government fall. One more East German fascist will be kicked out of power.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
47. Unreal! So * & Co is in charge of what other people in other countries
can or can not do?!

:wtf:

This shit gets more ridiculous, irritating and yes, frightening every day! :crazy:
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Well, BushCo *dominate* the world now, don't they?
Is it not what the war criminals at the PNAC, led *in part* by Herr Rumsfeld and Darth Cheney wanted? (And got, thanks to EE&S+Diebold&Co?)

What more proof is needed? :shrug:
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-13-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
48. Merkel's a disgrace, though nothing compared to Bush.
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