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Why Brokeback Mountain is important and why it isn't

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:18 AM
Original message
Why Brokeback Mountain is important and why it isn't
Brokeback Mountain tells an uncomfortable story. For those, like me, too young to directly remember, it is jarring to see an era in which gay men routinely married women and had kids. For those who grew up in an age of gay straight alliences and corporate diversity programs, Jack and Ennis must appear as alien as a Martian. But like any good fiction, this story represents real people. People who grew up in an era of virtually no choices for LGBT people.

America in 1963 had no gay actors, doctors, teachers, or clergy. At least not openly gay versions of those. Moral clauses kept gays and lesbians out of those fields. There were no such things as non discrimination policies or laws. McCarthy, now remembered as an anti communist bully was also a homophobic one. Homosexuals were seen as security risks and perverts. In that America, the notion that two cowboys would ride into the sunset in each others arms was simply crazy talk.

Gays and lesbians tend to be horrible about having a sense of history. We honor Stonewall but forget about the Machete Society. The stories of the real life Jacks and Ennises are often lost to today's gay and lesbian. But it was the injustice and frustration of those people which led some to take those tenative steps toward equality that directly led to the world we live in now. A world, that for all its flaws, sees 3 of the largest 6 states with gay rights laws, an entire region with them, and four states with either full civil unions protection or outright same sex marriage. A world, that for all its faults, where the vast majority of corporations include gays and lesbians in their diversity training and protections. A world, that for all its faults, sees openly gay teachers and gay straight alliences in many of our high schools.

Jack and Ennis are, like it or not, a very real part of our history. People who felt forced to comply with society's dictates and marry and have kids were our first out parents when they eventually tired of the lies. The spouses involved in those marriages often became our allies due to the direct knowledge of how that pressure had ended up hurting them. Without the real life Brokeback Mountains, there would have been no Stonewalls. Without the real life Brokeback Mountains there would have been no custody cases.

This movie, even if it wins the Oscar it is now favored to win, won't solve the problems of the world. It also won't open closed minds. But it will, if we let it, give us a sense of history that many of us sorely lack. Instead of condeming the Jack and Ennises of the world we ought to thank our lucky stars we were born in a world that is alien to theirs. We should bow down to those brave few who helped changed that world. Thanks to those people, we can only guess if we would have behaved differently than they did. I, for one, am happy not to know what I would have done faced with that world.

I felt the cross post was needed given the wide play the movie has had in GD.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. well said
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. But, I think it will change things more than you know
Part of the problem is that many people think of LGBT as strangers, someone to fear. They never think of them as real people. BBM has made them real people. That's what will make a difference. Yes, there will still be assholes, but I think you'll start to see a shift in attitude, even with red staters.

zalinda
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting.
I had not thought of it in those terms. I work with a lot of both men and women who lived the marriage and kids life only to later be able to live the life they were really happy to live. It will be interesting to talk to them about your thoughts. Maybe because we are older and lived during the times you are speaking about we have not seen it in that way.

I can't remember who it was last night, one of the screenplay writers or maybe Ang Lee who mentioned how they were honored or happy to make a film that spoke about important things and hopefully would start dialog (it was something like that but much more eloquent and I was only half listening). That is the way I have viewed the importance of this movie. The less people are shocked, the more this all becomes normal(?) the easier the fight will become. I appreciate that this lovely story has been made into a film and am still waiting the chance to see it.
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wonder why the right wing isn't protesting
this movie? They are keeping awfully quiet.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. They were hoping it would die in obscurity
The right wing got burnt when the protested The Last Temptation of Christ, where they ended up propelling a movie to profitability. They ended up miscalculating again since the Golden Globes ensure the movie will stay in theaters for at least a couple more months.
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dback Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. It's approaching $30 million--more than double its cost
And only playing on some 600 screens, so do the math--it's got one of the highest (if not the highest) per-screen averages out there.

Now, you've got right wing snots like Ben Shapiro (who really needs a good boot in the tush) who claim it's a "failure" because it's "only" made $8 million. First of all, this figure is an outright lie--it had made $8 million by Christmas.

Secondly, again, see the per-screen average--yeah, a piece of horror garbage like "Hostel" made $15 million its opening weekend (something Shapiro noted), but what's it's per-screen average? And what'll it's staying power be come the first week of February? "Brokeback" is going to keep bringing in audiences for the next 3 months, right up through the Oscars; it could very well eventually recoup its budget 10 times over. (In London, it OPENED at #1, ahead of "King Kong.")

Thanks for the gay history notes. Dan Savage has a particularly venomous column in the new Advocate (with Jennifer Beals on the cover), wherein he goes to town on recalled mayor James West, who was outed. Savage's point is, there's a big difference between a pre-Stonewall generation of men who came of age and maturity long before the '69 riots and the 70's flowering of the movement (like Jack and Ennis), and men like West who were born around 1950 and not only stayed closeted, but intentionally worked AGAINST the gay rights movement while trying to score with young men in secret. (West voted against gay marriage, gay teachers, domestic partnerships, the whole shebang.) The first group of men should have our pity and our support; the second, our anger.

All I know is, as long as women are still seeing the movie and weeping "Say yes, Ennis! Say yes!" (as Leonard Pitts referenced in a recent column), the movie is possibly going to change hearts and minds in ways we can only begin to imagine.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. it is doing quite well
as I said the right miscalculated. I do think we should hold off on the thoughts that people not disposed toward LGBT are watching the film. I would imagine that fewer than 1 in 100 Americans have seen the film and our support is much higher than that.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. I can't find (nor did I look too hard) the link, but I recently read
it was the highest per-screen gross.

I saw the film. I truly liked it. I twice laughed out loud at inappropriate scenes. But that really had nothing to do with the movie, it had more to do with a belly full of sushi and kirin and my best friend sitting next to me making me giggle.

I was blown away by Heath Ledger and Jake Gylenhaal (sp?). They were both great.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Additionally if the *mainstream* is SO CONSERVATIVE
Then why is this movie doing so well?

Doesn't it seem odd that if the *norm* is to renounce gays that this movie even has anyone to view it?

I find it strange to say the very least!
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. a movie can do well with a fairly small percentage of the population
actually seeing it. I don't think the movie is entirely preaching to the choir but it likely is doing a good bit of that.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Thanks for this thoughtful post.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. I just figured out what K and R means
thanks.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Machete Society?
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 10:10 AM by mcscajun
Can you enlighten this uninformed straight lady? :)

BTW, I think your post hits this movie issue dead on. I saw it this weekend, and I had similar thoughts on it's impact for those youngsters who weren't around pre-Stonewall.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. gay rights organization dating from the 1950's in Chicago
it eventually got shut down over obscenity charges (they mailed pamphlets arguing for gay rights which were deemed obscene). To my knowledge they were the first group to organize around gay rights in the US.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It was the Matachine Society, not Machete
and it had small chapters all over the US, mostly concentrated in larger cities, such as New York. You are correct about our lack of undertsanding history. ;) :hi:
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Found it!
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. sorry I was at work
so I couldn't research the spelling very efficiently.
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
38. The Daughters of Bilitis was another such group, for women. (nfm)
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. That is a new one to me
I hadn't heard of that.
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Here's a link from the queer encyclopedia www.glbtq.com
Apparently Bilitis was a poet who lived on the Greek island of Lesbos and wrote love songs to women. Christianity hadn't been invented yet, so I guess it wasn't sinful.

http://www.glbtq.com
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/daughters_bilitis.html
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/mattachine_society.html
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. You got a good start, but BBM is much more than you describe.
While true, as the film starts in 1963, where there was still oppression, and standards of behavior, you obscure the regional differences, IE small town vs. big town America.

In 1963, there was a burgeoning gay community that was still furtive, but none the less active in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and LA. The bars were still being raided by police on a regular basis, but they nevertheless catered to homosexuals. After the Stonewall riots (backlash against the raids), the 70s brought a political force in the gay rights movement that was more powerful than any in human history. Sodomy statutes started to be repealed at a rate that suprised even the most active gay rights advocates back then. The 70s activism period, IMO, was even more powerful than that of the 80s which focused mainly on AIDS and drug activism, as opposed to just gay rights. There was Queer Nation, which advocated loud, direct confrontation with homophobia, modelled after ACT-UP (AIDS activist group started by Larry Kramer)but it quickly fizzled out. Parades cropped up in every American city over 500,000 people. Harvey Milk was elected to the SF city council in the 70s, a milestone. His assasination, and subsequent slap on the hand sentence for his assailant galvanized the gay community into further action.

In the cities, all these events and much more were taking place during the same 20 year period Jack and Ennis were still compartmentalizing their relationship into secret meetings on BBM, both still afraid of being found out. The good news of the cities never reached them, since they were of a different world. A world that had it's standards and pigeonholed gay cowboys into certain behavior that they felt they had to conform. That, coupled with their own internalized homophobia (one moreso than the other). The culture of small town America is strong enough to block any world turning events that are happening in the cities... (SPOILER HERE!!!)Witness the phone call between Ennis and Jack's wife, where she tells of a truck breakdown, them the director shows us what really happened. She was so afraid of what others might think that she felt compelled to lie about an important event. But, there was a glimmer of hope in Jack's Mom, and her eyes told you that she knew, and that it was OK with her. (END SPOILER)

BBM is still going on today. There are peobably millions of married gay men and women who feel the need to take on the same pretenses as depicted in the film. These people do what Jack did...go out and find anonymous encounters in dangerous places. It still happens today. I've had one night stands with men who had obvious dents in their ring fingers, more than I can count on two hands.

History isn't the only message of this film. It's much more multi-layered than that.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. of course location also mattered
but even in most big cities being gay was no picnic back then. Yes, it even happens today. In college I mistakenly dated one or two of them.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. the same pretenses of heterosexuality and marriage
are very much alive today...i agree 100%.
i don't know if i didn't notice it as much when i was younger or if the heightened anti-gay climate of the past few years is making more people opt for the cover of heterosexuality...but lately i've run into to quite a few lesbian women married to men.
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wiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
44. Queer Nation was late 80's
It is also relevant to remember, that in places like Jamaica, or The Bronx or in entire states like Wyoming, for example, that out gay men and lesbians are still murdered, abused and mutilated. Gay teenagers are routinely thrown out of their homes and disowned, forced into prostitution or drug dealing or homelessness or worse. High school can be a violent and life scarring event for them, as well as others who don't fit a mold. Gay couples are prohibited from adopting children in most states.

Gay men and Lesbians are routinely denied health care by health care providers based on their sexual orientation. Recruits who are assumed to be gay are sometimes abused, or murdered in the military. For a great many men and women, a heterosexual facade, including marriage, is the only way they know or can survive. In the last ten years I've had four gay friends brutally murdered just for refusing to hide who they are.

BBM exists for most gay men and lesbians, especially the majority who don't have the high incomes that make them a desirable market share.

There is a long way to go. That road is especially long and hard for gay men and lesbians who are also people of color. I see the incredible damage every day in my medical practice, and wonder how some health care providers can practice medicine with such irrational hatred and fears in their hearts while others have risked their lives, and careers to help all those in need.

Some really brave, cool, courageous and upright heterosexuals had a lot to do with the movement, and they still do. I think both GLBT people and their supporters deserve an enormous amount of thanks and gratitude. And the cool younger people who don't have that hatred and fear in their hearts are daily reminders that hope exists for a better world.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. Very good points.....My mom's first cousin and best friend (born in 1932)
was gay. They went to high school together in Mississippi in the 1040's/1950's, and he has told me some fascinating stories of his life in those years (he was VERY popular among the guys in his graduating class). Later, living in the gay scene in Mobile in the 1960's, also brought a flood of stories. Very interesting man, but very cautious in who he trusted. Discovering I was both gay and in a LTR seemed to really thrill him.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. My uncle was born in 1934
but sadly he died while I was quite young. He had a pretty rough time of it according to my dad. After high school he got into both drugs and alcohol and eventually they killed him. Being openly gay was evidently a bit more than he could handle (he also had mental illness). From all accounts he was a brilliant man but troubled.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wasn't McCarthy a closet homosexual himself?
We all know about "Mary" Hoover.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Nah' He was a drunk, and hated communism.
Homosexuals were just a means to his end. You might be thinking of Roy Cohn, McCarthy's right hand man. He was a closet homosexual, and railed against homosexuals, fought against them, even up to his death of AIDS...err...excuse me, "Liver Cancer".:eyes:
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. You're thinking about his chief counsel, Roy Cohn who was indeed
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 04:17 PM by Rowdyboy
a deeply closeted Jewish homosexual. A thoroughly evil man to boot who did all he could to hurt Jews and homosexuals.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I knew about Cohn, but wasn't there something about
Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 04:22 PM by YOY
Joltin' Joe (just ask those he had electrocuted) and a young sailor? I could have sworn I read it somewhere.

As for Cohn...I don't really believe in hell, but on the off-chance it exists, I do believe he is there.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great post dsc.
I remember those days, especially because of the problems my gay cousin suffered through back then. Fortunately, the West Coast was always more gay friendly than the rest of the country and gays could find niches where they could live their lives more openly even in the early sixties.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. I don't know about that. I know a lot of cowboys and not even one is gay.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I know a lot of people
and none of them are cowboys. Does that mean they don't exist?
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. No, it means that none of the cowboys you don't know are gay.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Um OK
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Don't tell that to the International Gay Rodeo Association (link):
The International Gay Rodeo Association (IGRA) is an organization comprised of numerous regional Gay Rodeo Associations from across the United States and Canada. IGRA, in collaboration with member associations, assist these associations in raising and donating thousands of dollars to charity in their communities each year. The Gay and Lesbian Communities of the United States and Canada have been enriched by the educational efforts of IGRA through its sanctioning and sponsorship of the various events and activities which are a part of what we call "Gay Rodeo".

http://www.igra.com/

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yeah, but Ennis said Rodeo cowboys aren't real cowboys.
...then Jack got pissed, danced and fell on his ass.
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
43. Logic error. See post 42. (nfm)
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Uncle Roy Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-18-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
42. Some of them might actually be self-confessed, practicing cowboys,
But they might still be "in the corral" so to speak, and just not want to come out to you because they think you might be a steerbasher. Sometimes it's pretty hard to tell if people are cowboys. Sometimes they walk kind of funny, you know, sort of bow-legged like, from all that time in the saddle... Sometimes they just SEEM like cowboys, but really are quite normal. All hat, no cattle, like certain Presnits we could mention.

It's a life-stye choice that not many would make, given all the bovapedophobia out there. As Willie Nelson sang: "Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys".

Find a way to let your friends know that you will still love them and respect them, even if they ARE cowboys. Maybe you could suggest you all go to a rodeo together some time, as a way of letting them know you are cool with it.

And get fitted for chaps... That will say a lot. Of course if they're NOT cowboys, that might backfire. They might think you're queer...
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Oh they do exist!
I am part of that "cowboy" group, I raise horses and have been involved with Cutting as a sport. There are plenty of gay cowboys and cowgirls. One of our best cowgirls here in the state many years ago was not only a lesbian but an ex Playboy model. We have a gay rodeo association here as well.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. You should rent "How the West was Hung"
Now, thee's some gay cowboys.:evilgrin:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. You are so bad
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is an excellent commentary on the film
Thank you
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. Very thoughtful post.
:thumbsup:
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