VIDEO-Greg Palast: Why Mexico vote annulment now a "strong possibility"

[redacted]

In Mexico, populist candidate Andres Manuel López Obrador released a preliminary video yesterday of what he says proves he was cheated out of last week's presidential election. In a video shot in the central state of Guanajuato, the footage shows an apparent supporter of Calderon's National Action Party stuffing a ballot box on the day of the elections. Investigative reporter Greg Palast travels to Mexico City to report on the disputed election.

http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17262

[MissWaverly]

1. Hey, Karl, smile for the cameras

you want your best profile with your hand in that ballot box.

[redacted]

2. LOL!

Did you see on the video the fellow shoving ballots into the box? Think he learned that at one of Karl Rove's weekend seminars?

[MissWaverly]

3. yes, I think so

same thing in Haiti with ballot boxes discarded in landfills, it's the same mo over and over
again, it was played out here since 2000 and in elections for our latin neighbors since that time.

[redacted]

5. Yep, even ChoicePoint is involved this time

Same old, same old. They can't even find a different list vendor, even after Mexican authorities threaten criminal charges.

Did Palast say that ChoicePoint actually got paid out of Homeland Security funds, or was their contract just to provide "anti-terrorism intelligence?"

[MissWaverly]

7. Page 43 of Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast

"...we got our hands on a copy of a $67 million agreement between Homeland Security and Choicepoint. The agreement was so confidential it was not even given a contract number.
It was a no bid deal, of course."

Note from Miss Waverly on the photo of the bid for Choicepoint page 42
There is nothing on the page but the title, date, affected parties and the words-Justification for Other than Full and Open Bidding in Accordance with Title 41, United States Code Section 253 (c). Justification is completely blacked out so I guess the justification is the use of a black magic marker.

[redacted]

8. Miss Waverly is quite the funny gal!

If we can't laugh about stuff like this, we're on the way to losing our marbles.

[MissWaverly]

9. thanks, well, at least I know how to use a magic marker

so I guess I am in on the GOP brilliant management tricks

[annabanana]

4. Oh Lord, I hope so!

I want a clear, irrefutable example of their perfidy right in front of our eyes as we go into November...

[redacted]

6. Perfidy?

Huh?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

11. perfidy

perfidy \PUR-fuh-dee\, noun:
The act of violating faith or allegiance; violation of a promise or vow; faithlessness; treachery.

:D

[redacted]

18. Thanks again Viva

[redacted]

10. . .

[EFerrari]

12. Kick

[redacted]

21. Thanks sfexpat2000!

[jsamuel]

13. direct link here (thanks for thread)

mp3
http://www.archive.org/download/dn2006-0712/dn2006-0712-1_64kb.mp3

low bit rate
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2006/july/video/dnB20060712a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=21:26

hi bit rate
http://play.rbn.com/?url=demnow/demnow/demand/2006/july/video/dnB20060712a.rm&proto=rtsp&start=21:26

[dg10348]

14. Vote Fraud article in English and AMLO website

In one state the people are holding the IFE and local elections officials prisoners in a buliding.Video of vote boxes being opened on AMLO site.See videos in upper right corner of AMLO website.

Article by Al Giordano:http://www.narconews.com/Issue42/article1972.html

AMLO website: http://www.amlo.org.mx/

[redacted]

19. Thanks dg10348! Here's a Google translation of the page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.amlo.org.mx/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.amlo.org.mx%26complete%3D1%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26newwindow%3D1%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Not sure why the images aren't displaying on the translated page, but I think the translation helps.

[Nothing Without Hope]

15. Some earlier Greg Palast articles on the Mexican election:

Here are the DU threads - the articles were published in the Guardian (UK):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=437351
thread title (6-30-06): STEALING MEXICO - by Greg Palast

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1556158
thread title (7-3-06): Dispatch from Mexico City: Stealing it in Front of Your Eyes - Greg Palast

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x439021
thread title (7-8-06): Mexico and Florida have more in common than heat-Greg Palast/The Guardian

[redacted]

20. Thanks Hope

Good to hear from you. How are things?

[killbotfactory]

16. Recount all the votes!

What a concept!

[walldude]

17. Just finished Armed Madhouse.

Palast has balls the size of the moon.

[redacted]

22. . .

[Adelante]

23. Even the PRD rep who monitored that casilla has denied that video

The devil in the blue shirt was a low paid school teacher in a small town who was sorting ballots that had been inserted into the wrong boxes by voters, one of the million Mexican citizens doing his duty to his country running the polls on election day. They weren't even presidential ballots. The PRD representative signed off on the ACTA. There was no evidence of fraud in that casilla.

This was AMLO throwing shit around to see what would stick. Even he has said he has no evidence of what was happening in that video. It's been all over Mexican newspapers and television. The Guanajuato PRD, AMLO's own party, has publicly disassociated itself from this ploy. If you care about the integrity of this election, please stop posting this baseless smear and try to use some perspective. AMLO is a politician and does political tricks like any other politician. This was one of them. Greg Palast was wrong. NarcoNews was wrong. And it's wrong for this to keep appearing on DU as if it were true.

There are many charges such as this that have to be sorted out in the court. Some will be true and some, like this one, will be false. The proceedings will be televised to the Mexican public. Give it a break and let it happen.

[autorank]

25. Like letting the "non partisan" electoral institute"happen". The same

institute that (and this is documented and undeniable):

a) hired the brother in law of Calderon, one of the candidates to write the vote tabulation software central to the institutes aggregation and reporting function; and

b) failed to report (this is very important) that there were 2.5 MILLION ballots that had not been reported and did so and counted the votes ONLY AFTER the issue was strongly pressed by Obrador's people.

"B" is the most devastating. What was it about the 2.5 million ballots that caused them to just not mention the fact. It's a huge part of the vote, maybe 5%...and they were rounding up their totals and presenting them without even explaining where 2.5 million ballots went. Just awful.

The reason not to give it a rest is simple: the deck is stacked. An election was stolen in '88 in a similar fashion. A charismatic leftist candidate was gunned down in Baja California just as he was taking off in popularity. Obrador was challenged with some technicality by t PAN in order to get him "unqualified" to run due to a conviction and removal from office.

Tell me we should leave it alone and let the authorities decide and my response is, the Mexican people have a right to vigorous pursuit of their god given right to demonstrate.

I love Mexico! It's a wonderful country with boundless potential. The people there are held back by a lousy government riddled with institutional corruption, AS ARE we. We have a great deal in ocmmon.

[Adelante]

26. I answered your Point B

In this thread, autorank.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1595082

All I am saying is have an open mind and don't believe every last thing you see on Narco News. :shrug:

[autorank]

27. On open "mind" in a biased contest is a terrible thing to waste;:)

I did not see your answer to part b) about withholding the information on the 2.5 million votes, unless you mentioned it up thread. That's fairly straight forward. They were not forthcoming with this and had to be asked.

The brother in law issue, Calderon's writing the tabulation code, first denying it and then admitting it, is terribly damning evidence.

First the election institute should have had the good sense not to do this. It's like having Niel Bush's company write the election code for the voting machines in 2004. Would you have objected to that.

Second, it should have been disclosed as a matter of fact if they had any conflict of interest standards.

Finally, there should have been some third party investigation of the code. People are still fighting for that transparency here because it's vital to fair elections...for both sides.

If the election institute is fair, then you have a good point. The use of Calderon brother in law (e.g., Niel Bush here) to write the tabulator (e.g. touch screen code here)is simply astounding and totally belies any objectivity.

The comment on Narco News is not an argument and you would have no reason to make that because you don't know what I read or to whom I speak about Mexico. It's a heck of a lot more information than Narco News, although I think they're very good and a brave crew. It's a huge story and we have much in common with the Mexican people, in general, and with the perennial losing party down there, in the sense that we're always "losing" the close ones 2000, 2004 level.

We need to be skeptical of a "rigged game." Just remind yourselves of Bush v. Gore in 2000 and the "objectivity" of the United States Supreme Court. Then you've inoculated yourself with sufficient skepticism about the government (forever) structue down there; just as we should be here, given all the experiences from 2000 on with electronic voting and prior to that with deliberate disenfranchisement of voters through massive suppression.

[Adelante]

28. Skeptical is good - convinced beforehand not so good

Especially when there is so much at stake.

Narco News, I guess it's a matter of approach. Too much I've read this past week, such as the video story in the OP, has been utter bullshit and I hate to see utter bullshit posted and reposted and reposted on DU. But that's just me.

Anyways, ciao :hi:

[autorank]

30. I agree it's always good to cast a critical eye as you absorb information.

We agree on that.

The better the information, the stronger the position for democracy in Mexico (and the USA), which is my main interest.

If course, after you've assured accuracy, it's a matter of being head; which is the shame of the corporate media. They are simply not up to the task, for whatever reason.

:hi:

Clark's getting his voice lately, isn't he.

[Adelante]

31. One other thing on point A

I was distracted yesterday, but I wanted to ask you about this:

"a) hired the brother in law of Calderon, one of the candidates to write the vote tabulation software central to the institutes aggregation and reporting function; and"

My understanding was the brother in law *bid* on writing the software but did not get the contract. I don't know anything beyond that and I am not saying it is true. Just another conflict in information to watch.


Wes, well, you know the man - never, ever gives up on democracy :)

[autorank]

32. I'm pretty sure the brother-in-law, multiple sources & brother in law

denied it only to have a contract produced! I'm to the point of having someone I trust read the original articles in the Mexican press in Spanish, a 2nd confirmation. That one's not the problem. I don't know about the tape though. The big picture here is the history. Last PRD candidate shoved aside in similar fashion 1988, which was one of the reasons that they have this electoral institute. Then the next left charismatic candidate is murdered as he starts his rise. Now the last minute victory and the 2.5 million votes the institute forgot to mention at their key announcement. We'll see. The bottom line is that our press is doing nothing like we're doing...trying to sort out the key elements. We'll see.

[Adelante]

33. Thanks, autorank

I didn't know about the contract. I'm up on the history. It's all pretty dirty no matter who. I have less doubt than you have about the last minute victory, because Mexican television was showing a list of states whose counts were not in yet all night. I could see almost all of them would be Calderon-heavy in votes. As those districts came in his numbers went up and up. I went to bed knowing it would go to Calderon and it did. However, that said, I am very much in favor of a recount to settle it, because it needs to be settled for the sake of Mexican democracy, so fragile, and because it was just too damned close.

[autorank]

34. Texas "hold 'em"...you keep your best cards until you need them

It's an old fashioned election fraud trick...regions, districts, bundles of precincts that "you own" are held back as you watch the vote tally. When you think you might lose, you can play those cards with the right "bid", meaning numbers because, well, because you can. You own the areas. That's not to say that happened here but late reporting is not really a phenomenon that can be ignored.

I don't believe in "good guys," just people. We all flawed to a degree. My rule of thumb, however, is this: when there is something bad that can be done to benefit the * administration and something bad is done, it's likely that the * administration had something to do with it.

It's a strange world and the right is both afraid and over reaching. There's a thread in elections about a spouse of the Choicepoint president participating for months on a private listserv of VoteTrustUSA and, perhaps (not sure yet) helping to fund that organization. There are actually people there defending Choicepoit. Strange world we live in.

I'll bet you a Franklin the real dirt is on the right down there and that good old WH has it's arms elbow deep in the middle of it.

[autorank]

35. We are officially through the looking glass...

...and there are people defending this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=440200&mesg_id=440248

[Adelante]

36. How do you know it was Texas Hold 'em?

You don't. You're guessing. It's just as likely to be true that the list of states on TV and delayed under challenges, combined with geographic differences and time zones, resulted in Calderon's northern support coming in late and AMLO's southern support coming in early. Since I didn't think the PAN would be challenging itself, I concluded most of it was Calderon votes myself and went to bed. If AMLO was so sure he was winning all day, why was he already demanding a recount all day? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, autorank. But I'll bet you the Franklin the dirt down here is on both sides. There is not an inch of difference between these guys or these parties on that score. You do know that some of the very same people from the old PRI who brought Mexico the stolen 1988 election are running AMLO's campaign? I was for AMLO because I thought Mexico could use the tug, but I had no illusions that he was all that different than any other career pol who will work dirty when it's needed to win. For example, paying poll workers on the side, which it is looking like the PRD did, since the PRD leadership has admitted it did. The PAN and PRI probably did it, too. The only hope for staving off as much corruption as possible is the checks built into the voting system and the leverage of the elections court. The only one who would have won a clear majority in this country, in this election, would have been Vicente Fox. You can take that one to the bank.

[autorank]

37. You: "How do I know" when I said "That's not to say that happened "

You did not read my post. I feel like I'm talking to one of those folks around here who goes out of their way to say Bush actually won. Well, in my opinion, he didn't win and by objective standards there's a boatload of evidence to show that there should be an intense, no holds barred investigation.
The ruling party in Mexico is a mess, they're quislings to the * administration just like so many countries are where the very top gets the "rake off" at the expense of the people.

It's pointless to argument over speculation. Either the truth will come out and we'll know clearly or it will not. I just don't see the point of reflexive defense of right wingers, either from your perspective or mine in further indulging the discussion. Lets just see what happens and when a level of proof is reached to demonstrate a reason to believe one way or the other. I'm working on that now and I'll get back to you.

[Adelante]

38. Never mind, then, discussion over

"I feel like I'm talking to one of those folks around here who goes out of their way to say Bush actually won."

This is an insulting statement, autorank. I really am surprised.

[autorank]

24. Perfect, way to go redacted. Great stuff. Thank you. K&R !!!!!!!!!!

Viva la raza!

[redacted]

29. Thank you autorank!

You rock. I'm a big fan of yours. :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: