"The age of consent with parental approval in Iraq is 15..."

[IselaB]

Somebody want to explain this to me? This is from a Reuters article:

"The age of consent with parental approval in Iraq is 15, though it is not uncommon for girls to marry younger in rural areas."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060709/ts_nm/iraq_rape_dc_14

I mean, really, what the hell? What the hell does that have to do with anything? You tell me what the hell that has to do with anything. Does it mean it would have been okay for them to rape her if they'd waited until August 19 (which would have been her 15th birthday)? Or maybe it was okay for them to rape her if Mahmudiya is classified as being in a "rural area?"

Somebody explain to me why this statement belongs in this story.

[benburch]

1. They are trying to say they didn't rape a little girl...

...and that raping little girls is just peachy-OK in Iraq.

Motherfuckers.

[ComerPerro]

11. Meanwhile, if a 17 year old white girl goes missing here in the US

all we will hear is how young she is, she is just a child, etc.


And, yes, apparently if they are of age, rape is ok.

[benburch]

19. The hidden message is that Iraqis are not fully human.

They don't value life and childhood virginity like we do here.

[Ms. Clio]

22. right, that's plan B, after they are forced to admit she was only 14

so now somehow that means something "different" in Iraq than it does here. Especially in those backward primitive "rural areas."

Which I believe proves my point all along that they were well aware that legally and in many cases emotionally, a rape and murder of a juvenile is viewed differently than that of an adult, which is why they tried to obscure the facts about her age in the first place.

[benburch]

26. Some simple-minded Americans might be fooled.

For example, anybody who posts at Free Republic, but the Iraqis are NOT FOOLED, and want blood.

I expect that many more of our troops will be kidnaped and brutally tortured in revenge for this.

[Ms. Clio]

29. Perhaps -- I certainly hope not

But I think whoever killed those soldiers at the checkpoint wanted to strike directly at those they believed responsible for this crime.

[benburch]

31. I hope not, too...

...but I see what is happening.

[tavalon]

73. Perhaps they could just offer up the bastards who did this!?!

Or is that not adequately supportive of the troops?:eyes:

[benburch]

80. I think we should allow the Iraqi justice system to try them.

I don't see why they are being tried in a military court. Aren't soldiers who commit crimes in Germany tried in German courts?

[shadowknows69]

38. Earlier today CNN was still saying

her age was between 14-25 like they still weren't sure. Called her a 14 year old Iraqi "Woman" too. Sickening.

[laundry_queen]

62. I KNOW!

The other day, they kept saying she was 'barely' 20. They must have repeated it 10 times during a 30 second segment. This was after DU's already knew she wasn't older than 15. ugh!!!

[me b zola]

64. Spot on, Ms. Clio. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

43. Really. I don't know what all the griping is about...

... It's perfectly obvious that if an 14 year old American white girl was raped by brownskinned Iraqi soldiers, that everyone (media & republicans) would be talking about age of consent laws and the like.

After all, that's what they've historically done in America, when a black boy/man would have the audacity to so much as LOOK at a whit girl.

Oh wait, no that's not what white folks in America did to those silly, shameless black boys/men.

[malaise]

23. Bingo n/t

[kwyjibo]

69. Even if that was the view of Iraqis,

the rapist is American, so it doesn't make what he did one tiny bit less horrifying. Regardless, I think age is meaningless in this case. Sick is sick is sick.

[tavalon]

74. Exactly!

She was human and no one deserves what these creatures did to her.

[bloom]

2. It makes no sense to me.

I can't help you.

[Sapphocrat]

3. Kind of difficult, anyway...

...to obtain parental consent when you've already murdered the parents.

[Sherman A1]

4. There are those pesky little facts again

[marmar]

5. Great point...

I just have this awful feeling that our collective national karma is f..ked.

[LeftyMom]

6. Once they introduce the idea that she was capable of consent

(nevermind that she was too young to give legal consent or that consent in an islamic country would involve the permission of her family and marriage) then they can go with the usual rape defense that she was whore who really enjoyed it and deserved what she got. Undoubtedly we'll hear that she gave a soldier a nervous smile once and that will be the basis of some theory of a consensual relationship found out by the family or something that shifts the story from rape to tragic cultural misunderstanding.

It's fucking evil, but I bet that's where the defense will head with this.

[enough]

44. Did the parents give their approval to the rape of their daughter

before or after they were killed?

I'm sure your predictions are correct, LeftyMom.

[leftchick]

7. Alastair Macdonald is a sick MFer

I hope he has no daughters. What a fucking puke. :grr:

[ugarte]

8. What's the age of consent to be murdered?...nt

[uppityperson]

12. Found marriage consent, but couldn't find rape/murder consent for USA

links below, for reference.

[IselaB]

14. Exactly!

I don't see how anybody is going to be able to argue issues of consent or "cultural misunderstandings" when they killed her parents and her little sister and then four guys raped her before killing her.

Or maybe that's somebody's idea of true love. Hey, it's "Hadji Girl" but in real life!

[SensibleAmerican]

56. 18 for females, 16 for homosexuals

:eyes:

[tavalon]

75. Rural or not?

This is disgusting. I am beyond appalled, beyond horrified. Put me in a room with these sick fuckers and I just realized that my belief against the death penalty would go out the window, along with each of the aforementioned fuckers. This was premeditated.

[countingbluecars]

9. Age of consent!

This makes me so mad, I could scream! Why even mention this in the article. The girl was raped and killed! Outrageous!

[uppityperson]

10. marriageable age in USA with 2 links

Here are numbers to throw out at people who might think it was ok to rape, murder and mutilate this teen because she was almost of legal age to marry with parental consent. Here in the USA, the legal age to be able to get married with parental consent ranges (pretty much) 14-18. 15/16 seem commonest, though some states allow younger with parental consent. I couldn't find any numbers of legal age to get raped, murdered and mutilated though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age#Americas

United States: Usually 18. Most states, however, allow marriage at a younger age with parental and/or judicial consent. Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant. (Nationally few marry under the age of twenty.)

* Arizona: no statutory minimum, those under 18 must have parental consent, those under 16 must receive approval of a superior court judge and parental consent. (statute)
* California: no statutory minimum, those under 18 must receive approval of a superior court judge and parental consent.
* Georgia: 18 generally, 15 with parental consent, 16 without parental consent if pregnant
* Florida: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent.
* Michigan: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent. 15 and under with parental consent and probate judge approval.
* Mississippi: 17 for males, 15 for females, unlimited with parental consent.
* New Hampshire: 18 generally; 14 for males and 13 for females, in cases of "special cause" with parental consent and court permission.
* New York: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent, 14 for males and 13 for females with court permission.
* North Carolina: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent, unlimited in case of pregnancy or birth of child with parental consent.
* Texas: 18, 14 with parental consent.Texas Family Code
* Utah: 18 generally for first marriage, 16 with parental consent, 14 with court approval or previous marriage.
* Massachusetts: 18 generally for first marriage, 16 with parental consent.

Longer more involved table
http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm

[Ms. Clio]

13. so next time a 15-year-old American girl is raped and murdered

I hope the news media will inform us of the age of consent in her state.

[IselaB]

16. Exactly. n/t

[uppityperson]

17. one could always hope.

sort of like mentioning race or sexual orientation that has nothing to do with anything. If anyone dares to throw this at me, I can now say that the same age laws apply there as here.

[BlooInBloo]

59. 14 year old white girl. Raped a 20-odd year old black guy.

... to try and reflect the analogy with Hadij.

With those additional details, let's see the media helpfully tell us about the "woman" who "alledgedly" got raped, and go on to tell us about the age of consent.

All of this of course dovetails perfectly with the US military's recent recruitment of neonazis.

[Crunchy Frog]

15. It's the same way in parts of the U.S.

I have no idea what possible relevance it has to the case.

I wonder what the age of consent for getting murdered is over there. :shrug:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. there is no "age of consent" to rape n/t

[enough]

42. Well said.

[democrank]

20. This excuse is about as sick as it gets.

What`s next? She must have liked it because she didn`t overpower all the rapists?

[TahitiNut]

21. Well, it's a relief to know they're also subject to statutory rape charges

Gosh. That makes all the difference in the world.
:sarcasm:

[RagingInMiami]

24. Well any girl that gets raped

Was only asking for it.

[Deja Q]

25. Okay, so the bastard raped a woman. IT'S STILL RAPE.

:shrug:

[ismnotwasm]

27. It doesn't

Sick assholes,

"Alastair Macdonald"
(Additional reporting by Alastair Macdonald in Baghdad and Sami al-Jumaili)

Wonder if there is an email address? Let me just tell Rueters and Yahoo and whoever else reads those things exactly what I think about this.
No quarter. Doubt I'll get a response. But I don't think I'll let this one slide. In no way

here's the email
editor.reuters <[email protected]> The one I could find anyway
My response:

To whom it may concern.
The inclusion of the age of consent of an Iraqi girl in this article is heinous and completely unacceptable. What does the age of consent have to do with rape? The authors need to be told, evidently that rape, and consent are two different things, and do not belong in the same article. If you are keeping such reporters in your employ, I feel sorry for those of us who read Reuters on a daily basis and have come to rely on it as a worthy news source. It is a "big" deal. Rape should never be confused with consensual sex, and the only thing I can think of is that the authors were trying to slyly confuse that very issue. If they need more information, or education, I suggest you provide them with whatever is needed. I am completely disgusted. The speculation on the age of the Iraqi girl is supposed to say, what? That rape is better or more acceptable if she if older? That it was not a very young girl that was raped? That the rape did not occur, and it was consensual sex? Was the murder was consensual as well? Just what "IS" the point here? This case is already horrid, and writers who actually make it worse in any way should be fired.



"The age of consent with parental approval in Iraq is 15, though it is not uncommon for girls to marry younger in rural areas."
Please take action on this. It does the Reuters news service no good to publish this type of loathsome reporting."

[Cleita]

28. "Age of consent" means consent. Apparently she neither

consented to being raped or killed. It still would be rape and murder even if she were fifty, not fifteen.

[NYC]

30. She was UNDER the age of consent in Iraq.

...I mean, really, what the hell? What the hell does that have to do with anything? You tell me what the hell that has to do with anything. Does it mean it would have been okay for them to rape her if they'd waited until August 19 (which would have been her 15th birthday)?...

Not only is there no consent for rape and murder, by anyone's standards, she was under the age of consent in her area.

Furthermore, by American standards, a 14 year old girl is a child. A 14 year old girl is never referred to as a woman.

I think the reason for trying to pretend that this child was "old enough to be raped" is to attempt to hide the pedophilia. This was rape of a child. It certainly was by any American's standards, and it is the American newspapers who keep calling her a woman, and now reporting age of consent as though that has relevance to violent rape, multiple murder, and mutilation of the corpse.

I mention mutilation of the corpse because setting fire to the four mercenaries about a year ago was met with reactions of horror. This child was set on fire.

[uppityperson]

36. Under age of consent for MARRIAGE with her parent's permission.

child rape, murder, mutilation. And child murder. And murder of 2 adults (parents). And mutilation of them all. And a cover up.

[NYC]

39. I think they are building up to one of those rape defenses

that makes me choke with rage, such as: She was dressed provocatively.

I hope the guilty people pay for these crimes: 1 child rape, 2 child murders, 2 adult murders, and if the original story is to be believed (rather than the latest "crime of opportunity"), they plotted for a week. So, conspiracy is also one of the crimes.

[uppityperson]

41. I am hoping that info is gradually coming out that will stop that.

As more info comes out, as more coverage is given, there will be less and less a chance. If you hear this bs from anyone, make sure to point out that there is NO age of consent for murder and mutilation and people in Iraq can get married the same age as people in the USA (if they get off on that point). No age for murder. How about her younger sister? And parents. very angry here too

[IselaB]

47. I think you're right

that nobody is going to be seriously arguing about "age of consent" as Americans look at the facts in this case (well, nobody except maybe Ms. Coulter). But I just think it's an outrageous thing to throw into a Reuters report on the matter. Honestly, what the hell does it have to do with anything? Why did the reporter and his editor think it was relevant? What was the logic behind including that datum? It really makes you wonder.

[uppityperson]

49. Please make sure you stress "age of consent to MARRY"

nothing to do with rape, murder, mutilation. They are not even talking about age of consent to have sex, but to Marry. Telling, isn't it? And yes, it does make me wonder why bother throw it in except for the fact that up 'til now Abeer has been a "woman" and they are still trying to push that (maybe it was her fault). bah.

[NYC]

48. I am surprised by the ages of consent in the U.S.

New Hampshire was 13 with parental consent. I suspect that is left over from the 1600s or something.

[IselaB]

50. You know, I always assumed the age of sexual consent was 18

everywhere in the US. Here in California it's 18. But I looked into it once and a lot of states set it lower. And guess where most of those states are? Yep, the Bible Belt.

[Straight Shooter]

32. What is the age of consent for being murdered in Iraq?

:banghead:

[NYC]

33. She was UNDER the age of consent in Iraq.

...I mean, really, what the hell? What the hell does that have to do with anything? You tell me what the hell that has to do with anything. Does it mean it would have been okay for them to rape her if they'd waited until August 19 (which would have been her 15th birthday)?...

Not only is there no consent for rape and murder, by anyone's standards, she was under the age of consent in her area.

Furthermore, by American standards, a 14 year old girl is a child. A 14 year old girl is never referred to as a woman.

I think the reason for trying to pretend that this child was "old enough to be raped" is to attempt to hide the pedophilia. This was rape of a child. It certainly was by any American's standards, and it is the American newspapers who keep calling her a woman, and now reporting age of consent as though that has relevance to violent rape, multiple murder, and mutilation of the corpse.

I mention mutilation of the corpse because setting fire to the four mercenaries about a year ago was met with reactions of horror. This child was set on fire.

[Raine]

34. Just about 10 seconds ago I heard the stupid

shit for brains 'news'woman on my local station say the 'rape of an Iraqi woman'...WTF SHE WAS NOT A WOMAN, SHE WAS A CHILD!!!!!!! :mad: :grr:

[raccoon]

78. Call or email your local station. Call them on this shit!

We all need to do this, don't let the rat bastard media hos get away with this crap.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

35. You're right, that it doesn't have anything to do with anything.

But you can almost SEE Rove over the reporter's shoulder, with a wad of 100 dollar bills, saying, "Go ahead and put THIS in your story."

[Generic Other]

37. In the Law Code of Hammurabi, rape of a virgin was punishable by drowning

The offender would be tied up, weighted down by rocks and thrown in the river. I imagine an unwritten code is still in effect today even if Hammurabi's long dead.

The shame of this crime will be forever etched into the hearts of surviving family members as will their hatred for America. Etched in stone like the laws of Hammurabi. And our country will drown entangled in the laws we have broken, all the while muttering our justifications.

[Hekate]

71. In modern Iraq the family is so shamed the victim is cast out...

I expect there will be extra deaths on our side -- of soldiers who had nothing to do with any of this -- it's all an atrocity --

Hekate

[Nikki Stone 1]

40. Sounds like a planted article from the Pentagon

We know they exist.

[RagAss]

58. BINGO.!!!!......hold your cards everyone...we have a Bingo....

[Nikki Stone 1]

63. For my prize, can I get my country back?

:(

[RagAss]

82. Wish I could deliver that for ya Nikki......instead we have a nice 12 lb.

Turkey for you(my Catholic background--Turkey Bingo at Thanksgiving time).....

[Nikki Stone 1]

84. Me too. We're kinda stuck at the moment.

And now there are revenge killings for this.

[Redstone]

45. Excellent outrage. Anyone with a soul feels the same.

Redstone

[glitch]

54. Indeed. I would hate to be the kind of person who would search for

rationalizations for this atrocity. Even if the rationalizations are only implied.

"Get a soul" should be the new meme for these, for lack of a better word, "people".

[Redstone]

55. Utterly astonishing how the freeps could try to rationalize this. Do none

of them have a 15-year-old daughter?

Redstone

[tavalon]

76. I call them creatures

No amount of "support the troops" meme can get me to support these specific hellions.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. So I guess rapin' and murderin' her is okay, then.

:wtf:

[uppityperson]

51. Age for legal Consensual Sex in Iraq is 18, Marriage15 (w/parentconsent)

This means you are not even supposed to be having sex, illegal to have sex,unless your parents say you can until you turn 18.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/iraq.htm

IRAQ LAWS: 1. Has no sodomy laws, the age of sexual consent is 18. If a minor is between 15 and 18 years old and does not resist the sexual act, the adult may be punished with imprisonment of up to 7 years. If a minor is 14 years or below, the punishment is a maximum of 10 yearsimprisonment.

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

[alittlelark]

52. 'Rape' is not consistent w/ 'age of consent'.....

....duh. Yahoo is a propagandist tool... it has been for at least 2 years now. Ignore them.

[Nevernose]

53. Age of consent in Mexico is 13; most nations 16

That was just FYI and the way my mind works. Mexico has the lowest age of consent I believe, even under-aging popular child prostitution destinations like Thailand and the Phillipnes.

What the hell that line is doing in the story is beyond me. Here in the US, depending upon the state the age of a rape victim makes a difference. Raping an 80 year old is different than raping someone who is 40, 30, 20, or even 16; raping a 14 or 15 year old is different than those ages and different than raping a 12 or 13 year old. Most nations have developed simialr "formulas" based on typical physical and emotional development (a 14 year old, for instance, might be physcially a grown woman, but is probably still a child).

If they'd gone on to elaborate on a different criminal structure in Iraq based upon the age of the victim, that line would have made sense. The way it is now, it looks as if the writer was implying that the age of the victim somehow mattered. Perhaps he has information that the defendants are going to be "she led them on; she was old enough to know better" defense?

Maybe it was just poorly written, a half-assed juxtaposition to the later reference to the six year old little sister, and a reporter with some semi-repressed misogyny?

[SensibleAmerican]

57. It is going to be raised to 16 in Canada to counter the expoitation

on the Internet.

[Nevernose]

68. Most places in Europe you can buy underage porn (allegedly)

According to a friend of mine.

He worked as a copy editor for an American magazine conglomerate that also sold a lot of Eurpeopean magazines. Apperently underage porno was a big seller, and he regularly recieved free copies of girls 14, 15, 16, 17 in compromising positions. The issues were on the counter in the executive lobby, in Los Angeles, for some of their European magazines.

[uppityperson]

60. I found links to legal age for sex and marriage, interesting.

I posted them above in these #s.
#10. Legal age to get married (usa)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age#Americas
http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/Table_Marriage.htm

#51. Legal age to have sex or get married (Iraq)
http://www.ageofconsent.com/iraq.htm
http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

I hate how they talk about "age of consent" without being clear they are talking about marriage, not just sex. Interesting how you can get legally married @ 15 with parent's consent, but can't legally have sex until you are 18 (unless married). I found 1 link that said it was to stop child sex business, but is the law for the country.

[Nevernose]

66. Wow. Hopefully not up-to-date.

I saw a table a couple of years ago that said the age of consent to marry for all states was at least 15, and a news report that they'd changed the last hold-out to 16 (unfortunately, I have a mind like sieve and quite possibly hallucinated the whole thing). And the age of consent for sex was 16. I hope that the one you posted was old or innaccurate.

I know a lot of fourteen year old girls, and most of them have been physically mature. A LOT of fourteen year olds. More fourteen year old girls than the average human can comprehend -- much like the average person can't comprehend the grains of sand on a beach or the number of stars in a galaxy. And not "know" in the biblical sense, but in the clinical sense.

And not a single one of them was emotionally or mentally mature enough to have been married, bear children (which is what "age of consent to marry" really means), or even have sex in the first place.

The way we treat women in this world is bad enough. The way we treat our children? Just plain shameful.

[IselaB]

61. I suppose it could just be bad editing

Maybe the reporter used that line as a lead-in to a more complete analysis of some quirks of Iraqi law, and the editor zapped everything except the first line. I know journalists often complain about how editors destroy the flow of their narrative. In this case, I'd be curious what the editor was thinking.

I'm surprised to find that there is a difference in any US state law between raping a 40-year-old and raping a 30-year-old. Are you only talking about sentencing guidelines or something? Why would there be a difference?

[Nevernose]

67. Sorry if I was unclear.

Most states have four basic guidelines for sentencing premises:
1. The elderly (definition by state, and many states don't have these defintions for the aged yet)
2. Grown women (16-65, for argument's sake, but sometimes 18-65)
3. Physically women, but emotionally children (14 and 15, sometimes including 16 and 17 year olds)
4. 14 and under (who are held to be children, both physically, emotionally, and mentally)

The specifics are different by jurisdiction, but these seem to be the basic four.

And you're right: this may very well be just a case of poor reporting or poor editing. But, then again, I'm a believer in Freud when it suits me, and I can't help but smell a little misogyny in the story.

[Marie26]

65. Who the hell cares?

What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't belong. It was just included to make this somehow seem less horrendous to Americans. Like, "Oh, those Iraqis are so backwards, she wasn't really a child." That's the reaction that sentence is hoping for. It's playing on people's prejudices so that they can feel less horrified by this crime. No, she WAS a child. And it IS horrific. That sentence is incredibly xenophobic & dehumanizing & the reporter probably didn't even realize it.

[Hekate]

70. Rape shames the family so badly that the victim is cast out...

...What is the age of consent for that?

I feel ill.

Hekate

[tavalon]

72. What the fuck!!!!!!!

Where is the "smiley" for spitting with rage? I'm &*%^&%&^%)*&^)*& enraged. Age of consent?!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What the fuck is wrong with that writer? With Reuters?

[smirkymonkey]

77. Wait - isn't premeditated MURDER still illegal?

What is this obsession with the age at which it is "ok" to have sex? Is anyone else just disgusted by the focus on the sexual part of this tragedy?

An entire family was murdered by one of our psycos, premeditated murder, no less. What the fuck is wrong with people? I am getting the impression that people are thinking that if somehow they can "justify" the rape (there is NO justification, imo) that the MURDER part of the story will just clear itself up.

I think this whole "age of consent" bullshit is just a red herring to get everyone distracted from the fact that we have murderous psycopaths in the US Military.

[Canuckistanian]

81. What's the age of consent for being shot and burned?

This reminds me of the Japanese soldiers at Nanking. They got tacit "permission" from their commanders to rape at will, so long as there was no "trouble" - no victims or witnesses left alive.

Is a US soldier really no better than that?

[Greyhound]

79. Pathetic attempt ot excuse the inexcusable. n/t

[dave123williams]

83. It's so that it's OK to smear her as a slut. Capice?