Did anyone see Lanny Davis on c-span this morning with..

[butterfly77]

Katrina V . I would like to ask this question and the last time I did people got angry, which I did not understand. Mr. Davis was on the show promoting Lieberman and Katrina was for Lamont. Mr Davis was also promoting his book about how mainly dems shouldn't call names and talk nasty about Bush or the Dems he said we should talk about facts but not good and evil. As callers called in they began to question the fairness of Israel as it relates to the palestines and he got angry and call them bigots and liars.

My question is why is it when someone ask a question about the whole middle east situation or as it relates particularly between Israel and palestine they get highly upset as if you have offend them just to ask a question. I asked the question once about, if America helped Israel in 1948 or in the 40's estabish or re- establish a homeland why is there so much confusion and how do they know this is the spot and why did they leave or what made them leave in the first place.

While watching Mr. Davis this morning I began to see some of the same characteristics that I see with liberman. I believe the reason why he supports bush is because of Israel. I have seen this violence between the two parties every since I was a child and I would like to know why it is not getting any better. Maybe some can explain this to me without getting angry with me because I am asking these questions.

Someone once told me to go read the history and when I do read I realize that some who have written history have re-written to benefit whatever. We see this with all of the books that have come out since bush has become the non-president all of his minions have and are writing books to make him look like some great leader which I don't believe that he is.

[Skidmore]

1. You have stated some of my exact thoughts. I have come to understand

our nation's relationship with Israel and Israel's behavior in simple psychological terms. We, as a nation, are always responding out of guilt for not taking action sooner to help the Jews when they were being mistreated in Hitler's Europe. They, on the other hand, have carried this chosen people promise and the accompanying myth of entitlement to a specific territory throughout history and now combine it with understandable collective PTSD from the trauma of WWII. We continue to fight WWII through our policies with Israel. I am always mystified by the way a people who were so badly oppressed are so unwilling to find a way to resolve differences with the neighbors they have. I don't believe that the grievances of the Palestinians are without basis. Some may be. However, to plop down people from all over the world, whose only attachment to the concept of "Israel" was an emotional one and expect the people living there to just roll over is pretty naive.

Lanny, if you're online and that logic is considered antisemitic, so be it. It is my firm belief that it takes two to tango, and Israel is not blameless in this mess, and we have responsibility for using this tension to keep that region destabilized. This collectively is a crime against all the peoples in that region.

[hlthe2b]

2. the ultimate refuge for those who can't/won't debate...

accuse others of racism, bigotry, and especially--antisemitism.

My issue with Lieberman and others like him is not that he is a strong supporter for Israel--It is that he has made Israel's interests priority OVER the US. The neocon movement aligned itself with the Repugs, only when it became clear that they could not roll the Democratic party to their agenda. Given that many of the founding Neocons, were once Dems, it is not surprising that we are still stuck with their residue among the "centrist" to far right Democratic side of the party. The break was not absolute and these DINOS are trying hard to pull the entire party hard left. Not all Neocons are probably TRUE Zionists--some may just exploit the issue to gain favor. But it is their high card to gain support in many quarters.

[Skip Intro]

3. Sometimes I wonder if Lieberman's loyalties actually lie with Israel

instead of the US.

I wonder that about other public servants as well. Lyndsey Graham amended a resolution a year or two (or three?) ago, re: the Iraq invasion/occupation, which stated clearly that our actions against Iraq were and are, at least in part, meant to make the region safer for Israel. Our men and women, according to this resolution, which passed, are killing and dying for Israel? That makes me wonder who is in control of, or wields greater influence over, the foreign policy of this nation.

I have a co-worker, a super-fundie bushbot, who thinks that the US should operate at the whim of Israel. He doesn't look at Israel as the 51st state of our union, but looks at the US as the military arm of Israel.

It baffles me.

You can't say our soldiers are dying in Iraq for our (US') freedoms (a big damned lie itself) if indeed they are dying for some paranoid idea of security for the state of Israel.

[butterfly77]

12. I don't get it ....

they kill every leader the palestines pick, what will they do kill until they do what they want.

[Cassandra]

4. Actually, they weren't talking about the Palestinians...

at all but were asking if always taking Israel's side in whatever way they ask is necessarily to America's benefit. As a Jew, I think invading Iraq was neither advantageous for us nor for Israel.
Jews were mostly pushed out of Israel, or Palestine as the territory was known earlier, by various groups but never completely; there have been small communities of Jews there continuously. The close genetic ties of Jews and Palestinians suggest that some Palestinians might be converted Jews from long ago. Jews know this is the spot because Jerusalem has always been the holiest city for Jews. If we respect Muslims' veneration of Mecca and Medina, and Christians' of Bethlehem, then Jews deserve the respect that their interest in Jerusalem is religiously based and not just a political move to piss off the Arabs. Davis was being beyond hypersensitive on the issue of our interests and Israel's; I didn't hear anti-Semitism in the questions he was asked, and I'm pretty sensitive to that.

[quickesst]

5. I watched it also...

and in my humble opinion, Davis wasn't hypersensitive about it at all. He simply used the phrase to escape answering a logical question. That was easy enough to surmise when he let it be known that any remark that is not condescending to Isreal is anti-semitism, even when coming from a Jewish person. Exactly the same cowardice masked in indignation a lot of people use for the immigration issue. Thanks.
quickesst

[butterfly77]

9. Tell me where were these jews before the 1940'S

I am asking out of curiosity and are there any black jews I have heard this thrown around also and would like to know where it originated from.

[bobbieinok]

6. I asked a Green prof at my conservative xtian college why so many

pentecostals/charismatics were so totally pro-Israel. He said it was b/c they had an extremely bad conscience that they had not tried to stop the holocaust in WWII.

There were students there who madly attempted to find some Jewish ancestor. And many wanted to take Hebrew as their modern language. A Spanish prof always asked them if they realized just about the only place Hebrew is spoken is Israel; they still thought the only possible choice for them was Hebrew.

Also even the mildest suggestion that maybe Israel had not acted 200% correctly in some minor thing would call forth unanimous condemnation.

I really do not think many were consciously following the Falwell/Robertson view that Jews must be converted or will be destroyed in the end-times. It seemed, for many of the students at least, to be some romanticized view of Jews and Judaism.

[Justice Is Comin]

7. I never liked Davis even when Clinton was in office.

But Katrina, she's a 100 carat diamond.

Did you hear her describe Bush? "Reckless...feckless...and lethally incompetent! If that isn't short and sweet.

Then she said she was only interested in three things when Davis was trying to blather about Liebermans great record and she summed it up why Lieberman should be dumped.

"THE WAR...end it!

HEALTH CARE...pass it!

AND THE CONSTITUTION...defend it!"


Wow, love her. :kick:

[butterfly77]

10. Katrina also told of her experiences in Russia...

and how she sees this country going in the direction of losing our rights.

[DeepModem Mom]

8. I seem to remember that Lanny was at Yale with George W, and liked him? nt

[butterfly77]

11. This is the reason he doesn't want us disparging ...

the reputation of his buddy and also from what I could tell it has a lot to do with Israel.