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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:16 AM
Original message
"Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad"-Hate Groups Infiltrating Military-NYT
Hate Groups Are Infiltrating the Military, Group Asserts

By JOHN KIFNER
Published: July 7, 2006

A decade after the Pentagon declared a zero-tolerance policy for racist hate groups, recruiting shortfalls caused by the war in Iraq have allowed "large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists" to infiltrate the military, according to a watchdog organization.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks racist and right-wing militia groups, estimated that the numbers could run into the thousands, citing interviews with Defense Department investigators and reports and postings on racist Web sites and magazines.

"We've got Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad," the group quoted a Defense Department investigator as saying in a report to be posted today on its Web site, www.splcenter.org. "That's a problem."

....................

The report said that neo-Nazi groups like the National Alliance, whose founder, William Pierce, wrote "The Turner Diaries," the novel that was the inspiration and blueprint for Timothy J. McVeigh's bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, sought to enroll followers in the Army to get training for a race war.

....................

more at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/washington/07recruit.html?ex=1309924800&en=18e0e7dce2b8c8d3&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Everybody is entitled to their opinion
No matter how bullshit it is.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. it's not bs
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 09:35 AM by ixion
it's simply an observation from the people I've encountered who are in the military.


Of course, there is always an exception to the rule, but from my perspective, it most certainly is the rule, rather than the exception.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. What's so special about your perspective?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. nothing, necessarily, but I know I'm not the only one who
sees it that way.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes I've noticed plenty of people who . . . shall we say, think that way
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. nice... very subtle insult
see, I can think just fine. :hi:

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. What goes around...
You can think, you know the rest.:hi:
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Well I don't want my post deleted by saying what i really think.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. You ARE joking, right?
I mean, you meant to put a :sarcasm: notation on that comment? Because, I served, my father served, as did his father, and my mother's father, and my nephew and several uncles. And WE aren't Nazis. I think you associating the two says a lot about you.

Be gone! Before someone drops a house on you.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. "Be gone! Before someone drops a house on you."
proves my point. thanks! :hi:
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Then I suppose we agree to disagree...
...about your powers of observation.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. fair enough... I'm not an extremist
everyone is entitled to their perspective. ;-)
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. It must've changed a lot since the 80s
When I was in, there were more black soldiers than whites in my Cavalry unit. Not many Mexicans, but a few more Puerto Ricans. We all seemed to get along fine. My roomate was a 30 year old black man who would defend me from getting fucked with by the seargent who had it in for me (who was white...so am I). Yeah, there were personality conflicts, but nothing overtly racist.

Never saw any bumper stickers about "Nuke 'em all, and let God sort 'em out" either...and this is when we bombed Tripoli and were on alert for invasion of Libya, until Khadafi chickened out. We did see a lot of "Fuck the Army" bumper stickers, with a picture of a turtle with a big smile on his face, mounting a helmet. I also had a scout friend with a Soviet hammer/sickle flag over his bed...just to get his Lt's goat. It was all in good fun. But that's Gen X for you. We were less propagandized than Gen Y is.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. First place I ever heard "Camel Jockey": the USMC
Also the best market in the world for the "KILL 'EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT" t-shirts.
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MikeNearMcChord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not surprised, you got Bloods and Crips also
When standards are lowered in recruiting, you will get this type of garbage. Besides, if some young White Nationalist wants to pull some "White Power" rant on some Iraqi, let him learn the hard way.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. There is an important difference I think,
between facist groups and street gangs in this context. I certainly have reservations about training gangsters in weapons and tactics, but I have even deeper reservations about mixing facist idealeogy and the military.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. We don't need that.
Seriously.

"Aryan" was the word for (Indo-)Iranian tribes, and is frequently just used for Iranian tribes. And hence for Persians today. I suspect the Iranian meaning is far more salient than the Nazi meaning in that part of the world.

Sunnis won't like that.
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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah let them find out how powerful WHITE is....
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 09:40 AM by pepperbear
in a country full of "UNWHITE". Yeah, that spray can will teach them Izlams a lessin.

Thanks and fuck you, you nasty ass crackers.

That's right. That's what you are...

NASTY-ASS CRACKERS.

1 more time for the lurking freeps who might encourage such behavior.....

NASTY-ASS CRACKERS.

One more time for those who voted for shrimpboy the first & 2nd time around...


NASTY-ASS CRACKERS.

I am pissed. So pissed that a freep will get a earful today.

on edit: so pissed I couldn't spell ASS right. :mad:

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
22. Fugging madness
Invade, occupy, slaughter and now paint racist slogans.

Get out of Iraq
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. RE: all those dogging me for my beliefs about the military
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 09:53 AM by ixion
don't you have some military bro's to chastise for slaughtering thousands of innocent civilians?

It seems you're all very fast to jump on me for my anti-authoritarian pacifism, but when it comes to the ruthless slaughter of innocents by the same people you're defending, well that's just a-okay, right?

The military is fascist (authoritarian) by DESIGN. How can you argue otherwise?

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Who accused you of that?
You said the whole military is racist, with a few (read 2 or 3) exceptions. It's an insulting broad brish and you deserve to be called on the carpet for it.

Trying to distract us from your bigotry, by changing the subject to the current atrocities isn't helping you.

You want to talk about the military establishment, and it's autoritarianism, fine. You didn't do that though. You brought up service members instead. Bad move.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. I'm sorry... accused? the term I used was 'dogging'
there's a difference. I don't feel 'accused' of anything. I feel 'berated', which is what 'dogging' translates to.



And yes, I do think it's relevant to mention the atrocities committed by the same people you're defending so vehemently.

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Dogging is a term soldiers use.
You haven't earned the right.:grr:

Second, it's irrelevant what you think is relevant. You are still using it in an effort to divert attention from your broad brushed maligning of all service members. I won't be drawn into a Hannityesque argument trap with you.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. I was an English major
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 10:59 AM by ixion
I can use any word I want, thanks.

And who the hell are you to tell me what words I can and can't use?

See, your authoritarian bent proves my point, thanks again.

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. WHOOOOOOOO. Touchy!
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 11:41 AM by Touchdown
I can only control you if you let me. You should've seen it as the hollow outrage and shallow debate tactic that it was. I was a journalism major. So what's your point?:eyes:

You proved nothing. I've been out for more than 20 years. I got out because I wasn't very good at following orders, and I saw bullshit too easily. Thank you for providing an excuse for me to exercise that talent.:hi:
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. sooo... if you're so good at detecting BS, so much so that you quit
why defend them now?

Just curious. :hi:

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Defending soldiers and defending the Army are two...
different things. Many of the rules from on high pigeonholed certain soldiers into certain roles against their better judgements. I had many good friends in the Army. Good drinking buddies, volunteers for local German functions (they're allways throwing some carnival, year out), and people who can see much of the bullshit that I saw. We all complained about the same things. The ratio of us talking about the evils of the Soviet Empire is about 5% to the crap we put up with in the Army-95%. Even that was about 20% of total conversations. 80% of talk was about getting laid, and how to attract girls (in colorful Army language of course). These are decent, ordinary young people who are not gung ho, Joe Blockhead brainwashed cult members, as you assert. I met only one certifiable Joe Blockhead, Squared Away, Die in a Blaze of Glory soldier...and nobody liked him. I met many assholes in the Army, but none that I would call homicidal. One little punk racist got his ass kicked by white guys. The black guys laughed and gave them shit for not doing it right.

hat you are doing is giving a legitimacy and success in the brainwashing techniques that the military supposedly has perfected on each one of us through the course of Basic Training, and continuing the big lie throughout our enlistment. That's a legitimacy that Army education (which is an oxymoron itself) does not deserve.

Does that humanize some of these monsters enough for you?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. I understand that they're people, not monsters
My grandfather was a pilot in WWII, and my father and uncle were both in the marines.

In college, I had a dozen or so friends who were in ROTC. I was roommates with one of them for awhile. He slept with a loaded .45 under his pillow. It really creeped me out.

I know there are good, honest, decent people serving in the military, and my heart goes out to them for what they must endure. However, I have run into so many hot-headed, macho creeps associated with the military, it's really soured my opinion of them in general.

And yes, my comments are directed by and large and the institution, rather than the individual.

I believe the concept of 'institution' is one of the core problems facing our society. Government is institutionalized, as is the military, education, religion and on and on. As soon as a social construct becomes an institution, it becomes a threat to the existence of the society from whence it came. And that applies to any and all institutions, including, but not limited to, the military.

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
         -- Albert Einstein

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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
41. What tripe
How do you know we aren't criticizing the military for their excesses? OR why would you assume that?

Fucking bullshit, and you should be ashamed for saying it.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. ashamed for saying what? that I don't like gun-toting murderers?
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 03:01 PM by ixion
I think not.


And I never killed someone I don't know, just 'cause someone told me to.

-- Camper Van Beethoven
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Ashamed for calling our troops guntoting murders for one
but more to the point, ashamed for assuming that because one doesn't agree with your narrowminded, simplistic analysis of the military one is blind to their faults.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. please point out where I said you had to believe what I believe
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 03:16 PM by ixion
I think I've been quite clear that this is only my opinion.


I don't support killing, no matter who does it. Sorry.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Interesting if totally dishonest response
I mean it was you who characterized those of us who defended the military in this manner, wasn't it? "It seems you're all very fast to jump on me for my anti-authoritarian pacifism, but when it comes to the ruthless slaughter of innocents by the same people you're defending, well that's just a-okay, right?"

Or is my memory playing tricks on me again? I mean if you read that, either we share your opinion on the military or we are comfortable with the ruthless slaughter of innocnents, right?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. well, I was being sarcastic...
should have used the emoticon.

It wasn't a command, it wasn't a thesis statement. It was a RHETORICAL statement.

Thanks for calling me dishonest, though. :hi:

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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. You're welcome. You should take some of the credit yourself.
You earned it after all.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. again, you miss the sarcasm
and yet you have the gaul to critique my opinions.

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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. Now THAT'S what I call "winning of hearts and minds"
Romper stompers and bully boys trolling through the streets of Baghdad playing Skrewdriver, Brutal Attack, and No Remorse at full volume looking for some poor Iraqi to beat up or shoot. Really classy.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Yet another reason to end this all-volunteer, privatized, mercenary
military force, less and less representative of the values of US citizens.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. There is a joke in that post somewhere. I just can't figure out where?
Let me think about this for a while.

Don
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Let me know if you find a joke in it, but certainly none was intended.
I think one of the most serious issues in modern American life is the increasing disconnection between citizens of the US and our military. The Vietnam-era army was a rich mixture of privileged and poor, educated and unschooled, rural and urban, all thrown together because some had joined and some had been drafted. Any sort of tribalization, such as the "white power" movement at issue in this thread, tended to get defused and smoothed out in a larger context of "American" culture.

Today's military is composed of:
1) People who have no other career options
2) People who want some kind of schooling or training, and can't get it in civilian life
3) Guys who want to carry lots of weapons legally
4) Guys who want to kill people
5) People who want to serve their country

The more heterogeneous military (including the draftees) was composed of:
1) Musicians, artists and poets
2) Children of upper-middle-class families with good educations
3) Hippies and flower-power types
4) Guys who want to kill people
5) Wise and charismatic individuals who can have a positive influence on #4
6) People who want to serve their country, sometimes not knowing this until they're in uniform

I'm tired of the self-centered arguments of people who think a draft will give Bush and his ilk the means to wage more war. Quite the opposite is true. It would give the American people a reason to get rid of Bush.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. If you are tired give us some examples of...
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 12:00 PM by NNN0LHI
...children from upper-middle-class families ever being drafted and we will call it a day.

I grew up in a lower-middle-class suburb of Chicago during Vietnam and didn't know a single person who was drafted. Not one. They all received deferments for one thing or another.

And why did you stop with upper-middle-class? Why aren't the wealthy peoples kids on your list? Are they exempt in your plan?

Don
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. John K., James D., Carl B., Kenneth S. . .
(I won't give the last names), but these are guys I served with who had "US" serial numbers and were from upper socio-economic families. There were countless others who enlisted to avoid the draft, so that they could apply for a certain school or MOS.

True, many middle-class kids had school deferments or got into NG service (like Bush) or found other ways out of it. But my point is that I served with a real cross-section of young men, many of whom were quite cynical about the army and the war, and who effected a healthy mix of views and ideas among the ranks. "Gung-ho" attitudes were not suffered gladly. I'm willing to bet that such a dialog does not exist in uniform today, among the 100% volunteer forces.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. And what was the reason for not having wealthy peoples kids on your list?
You just forgot about them maybe?

Don
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Truly wealthy people have not generally had their sons serve in the military, although I think John Kerry was from a well-to-do family. Very wealthy people are not a significant number of citizens anyway. What I said was that I personally served with sons of moderately well-off families; my main point, which doesn't seem to be getting through, is that an all-volunteer force will have a VERY limited demographic compared to a conscripted force, and this is a breeding ground for the kind of "group think" that can result in Aryan Nation graffiti on the walls of Baghdad.

Not to mention all the other good reasons for NOT hiring out US military work to private guns, but to take citizen ownership of the process.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. My point is that the wealthy get a pass from the draft you are pushing for
You just admitted it. See:

>>>Truly wealthy people have not generally had their sons serve in the military<<<

And with that your whole argument built on a house of cards for having a draft collapses.

And John Kerry was not drafted so his story has nothing to do with this discussion.

Don
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. After the Black Power and anti-war movements of the 60s, the
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 03:35 PM by coalition_unwilling
U.S. army in Vietnam became increasingly polarized along racial lines, especially in areas away from the front lines. The PBS documentary "Vietnam: A Television History, DVD v. 3" actually has a section on life in U.S. army after Tet '68 where soldiers commented specifically on the lack of racial homogeneity away from the front lines.

That said, I agree that a republic (with a lower-case 'r') must have conscription, for the principal reason to prevent the sort of Praetorian Guard phenomeon this article and others like it portend. If children of the middle- and upper classes had to fight in Iraq, we wouldn't be in Iraq beyond July 31, 2006.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-08-06 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. If Bush and Cheney and Jebs kids would have been forced to go to Iraq ...
...there would have been no invasion and occupation at all. Or even if their daddies would have had to go it would have been the same result. No war.

Problem is wealthy people like Bush and Cheney have already proved that they would do whatever it takes to never allow themselves be drafted and sent to war just as they did during Vietnam.

Your idea has been tried many times before. It has never worked fairly. And it never will be fair either.

Anyone who suggest it will be fair is either being disingenuous or ignorant of past history.

Whatever the reason I will never support any kind of conscription.

Don
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. just an extension of the unreality bushco, limbaugh, falwell,
robertson, liddy, coulter, and others have created in the united states.

it's the unreality that created and ordered t. mcveigh to commit his crime.

it's the unreality that the abortion doctor murderers operate under and so on.

well, this is how the world ends

not with a bang but whimper...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. OK, so how do you tell the difference between these and your average
'nuke the ragheads' all-American haters running rampant throughout the military? They hate Jews and blacks too? They tote spraypaint?
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. I have an idea
Let's put a racist on Armed Forces Radio to incite the Troops and Politicize the military. We could get the troops to hate Liberals as well as blacks and browns.. Oops we already have that.Rush Limbaugh..and our Democratic Representation in Congress doesn't seem to mind a bit..
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. With all the news coming out of Baghdad about the torture and
killing of civilians for "fun", they are certainly acting like Nazi SS troops. You know that Aryans aren't called neo-nazis for nothing. It's because they really believe that Hitler was a great guy and that they should emulate what he stood for.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-07-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
39. What will happen when white nazis meet middle eastern nazis?
Edited on Fri Jul-07-06 01:00 PM by rman
Will they recognize one another as the soulmates that they are?


The Muslim Brotherhood, The Nazis and Al-Qa'ida
Al-Qa'ida is the product of an Arab fascist group that was set up in the 1920s, funded by Adolf Hitler, used by British, French and American Intelligence after WWII, and later was supported by the Saudis and reactivated by the CIA.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/Fascist%20Roots%20of%20Al-Qaeda.html

Extracted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 12, Number 6 (October - November 2005) www.nexusmagazine.com

From a speech by John Loftus (former US Justice Department prosecutor) to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day, (Yom Ha'Shoah), April 18, 2004
First published in Jewish Community News, August 2004

<knip>

Let me give you an example. This year a friend of mine from the CIA, named Bob Baer, wrote a very good book about Saudi Arabia and terrorism; it's called Sleeping with the Devil.1 I was reading the book and I got about a third of the way through and I stopped. Bob was writing about when he worked for the CIA and how bad the files were. He said, for example, the files for the Muslim Brotherhood were almost nothing. There were just a few newspaper clippings.
I called Bob up and said, "Bob, that's wrong. The CIA has enormous files on the Muslim Brotherhood, volumes of them. I know because I read them a quarter of a century ago."
He said, "What do you mean?"
Here's how you can find all of the missing secrets about the Muslim Brotherhood—and you can do this, too.
I said, "Bob, go to your computer and type two words into the search part. Type the word 'Banna', B-a-n-n-a."
He said, "Yeah."
"Type in 'Nazi'."
Bob typed the two words in, and out came 30 to 40 articles from around the world. He read them and called me back and said, "Oh my God, what have we done?"
What I'm doing today is doing what I'm doing now: I'm educating a new generation in the CIA that the Muslim Brotherhood was a fascist organisation that was hired by Western Intelligence and evolved over time into what we today know as Al- Qa'ida .

A brief history of the Muslim Brotherhood
Here's how the story began. In the 1920s there was a young Egyptian named Al-Banna. And Al-Banna formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Banna was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930s Al-Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence.
The Arab Nazis had much in common with the new Nazi doctrines: they hated Jews; they hated democracy; and they hated the Western culture. It became the official policy of the Third Reich to secretly develop the Muslim Brotherhood as the "fifth parliament", an army inside Egypt.
When war broke out, the Muslim Brotherhood promised in writing that they would rise up and help General Rommel and make sure that no English or American soldier was left alive in Cairo or Alexandria.
The Muslim Brotherhood began to expand in scope and influence during World War II. They even had a Palestinian section headed by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, one of the great bigots of all time. Here, too, was a man...the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the Muslim Brotherhood representative for Palestine. These were undoubtedly Arab Nazis. The Grand Mufti, for example, went to Germany during the war and helped recruit an international SS division of Arab Nazis. They based it in Croatia and called it the Handzar Muslim Division, but it was to become the core of Hitler's new army of Arab fascists that would conquer the Arabian Peninsula and, from there, on to Africa—grand dreams.
At the end of World War II, the Muslim Brotherhood was wanted for war crimes. Their German Intelligence handlers were captured in Cairo. The whole net was rolled up by the British Secret Service.
Then a horrible thing happened. Instead of prosecuting the Nazis—the Muslim Brotherhood—the British Government hired them.

<knip>

About the Speaker:
John Loftus is a former US Justice Department prosecutor who lives in St Petersburg, Florida. As a young US Army officer, he helped train Israelis in a covert operation that turned the tide of battle in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. During the Carter and Reagan administrations, he investigated CIA cases and Nazi war criminals for the US Attorney-General. As a private attorney, he works pro bono to help hundreds of intelligence agents obtain lawful permission to declassify and publish the hidden secrets of our times. Loftus is Vice Chair of the Florida Holocaust Museum's Executive Committee. He is the co-author (with Mark Aarons) of The Secret War Against the Jews (St Martin's Press, 1994) and Unholy Trinity: The Vatican, the Nazis and the Swiss Banks (St Martin's Press, 1992, 1998). His forthcoming book is titled Prophets of Terror: Jonathan Pollard and Peace in the Middle East. He can be contacted via his website, http://www.john-loftus.com.
This speech by John Loftus was given to mark Holocaust Remembrance Day (Yom Ha'Shoah) on April 18, 2004. It was first published in Jewish Community News, August 2004. We downloaded this version from the website http://www.navyseals.com/ community/articles/article.cfm?id=4328 and have slightly edited it.

Endnote
1. Baer, Robert, Sleeping with the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul For Saudi Crude, Three Rivers Press/Crown Publishing, USA, 2003, 2004 (ISBN 1-4000-5268-8; see review in NEXUS 11/06).

========

Brotherhood Wins 12 Egypt Parliament Seats
By JASPER MORTIMER, Associated Press Writer Thu Dec 8, 4:56 AM ET
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:Jnfxju39UoYJ:news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051208/ap_on_re_mi_ea/egypt_elections_16+egypt+parliament+seats&hl=en&lr=lang_nl|lang_en|lang_de|lang_es&client=firefox-a


CAIRO, Egypt - Preliminary results in Egypt's elections gave the leading opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood, a record 19 percent of the seats in parliament after a four-week election with unprecedented political violence.

The results — released privately Thursday by an official in the Interior Ministry, which oversaw the election — came a day after at least eight people were killed as police battled to stop voters reaching polling stations in Muslim Brotherhood strongholds.

In Wednesday's runoff polling, the Brotherhood won 12 seats, the National Democratic Party of President
Hosni Mubarak and its allies took 111 seats, and the opposition front two seats, said the ministry official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press. Two more seats remain undecided.

If those results are confirmed, the tolls from Wednesday's runoffs would give the ruling NDP and its allies 333 seats, or 73 percent of parliament, and the Brotherhood 88 seats. Other opposition parties and independents would have 21 seats. Twelve seats are undecided and reruns are expected to be held. The parliament holds 454 seats, 10 of which are appointed by the president.

The results mean the Brotherhood — a group that is banned but tolerated with restrictions — has won almost six times the 15 seats it held in the outgoing assembly.

Under U.S. pressure to bring about democratic reform, Mubarak gave the Brotherhood unusual leeway in the campaign, but his security forces cracked down after the first round of polling on Nov. 9 when it became evident that the Islamic group had far more popular support than expected.

In Wednesday's polling, as in the second and third rounds, lines of police officers in riot gear blockaded numerous polling stations in opposition strongholds.

Supporters of the banned Brotherhood fought back, hurling stones and molotov cocktails and cornering security forces in some towns.

Wednesday's toll of eight dead brought the death toll to 10 people. Hundreds have been wounded and more than 1,000 arrested, mainly supporters of the Brotherhood.

The United States had criticized the level of violence even before Wednesday's fatalities. "We've seen a number of developments over the past couple weeks during the parliamentary elections that raise serious concerns about the path of political reform in Egypt," U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said Tuesday.

The fighting between would-be voters on the one hand, and police and government supporters was particularly severe in the Nile Delta on Wednesday.

Government supporters, some armed with machetes, got out of an armored police vehicle in the Delta city of Zagazig, 50 miles northeast of Cairo, and attacked voters who had been pushing to break through police lines outside a polling station.

A 14-year-old boy, Mohammed Karam el-Taher, was killed when police fired at the demonstrators in Qattawiya, a village in the Nile Delta province of el-Sharqiya. Another demonstrator in the same village, Mohammed Ahmed Mahdi, 22, died of gunshot wounds to the head.

In the southern city of Sohag, up to 400 voters waited for hours outside the Mohammed Farid School polling station but were blocked from entering by lines of police.

Interior Ministry spokesman Ibrahim Hammad denied that police were blockading polling stations, saying the police were protecting the stations and "helping the voters to reach the ballot box."

In the outgoing parliament, the NDP had 398 seats, the Brotherhood controlled 15, independents held 23 and opposition legislators had 16.

The Muslim Brotherhood calls for implementing Islamic law but is vague about what that means. It campaigns for headscarves for women and against immodest dress, for example, but it insists it stands for a more moderate version of Islam than that followed in Saudi Arabia.
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