Did anyone else feel bad for Nancy Reagan when Ron died?

[LittleClarkie]

I didn't like Ronald Reagan. I had even less use for Nancy.

But the sight of her on his coffin, overcome and needing the kids to pry her off the thing, made me cry. Maybe it was because I'd just lost my dad a few months before. I dunno. A couple of my Republican friends looked over at me and said, "What are you crying about? You're a Democrat."

But another Conservative friend understood. This wasn't about Democrat or Republican. And he hoped that if the tables were turned and it was Bill Clinton who'd died, that he'd react with compassion for another human being despite what he might feel about the man or his family.

The conversations today just reminded me of that day. Carry on.

[smokey nj]

1. Yes......

I was reminded of my mother's grief when my dad died.

[w8liftinglady]

2. I'll give her credit for preserving his dignity.

alzheimer's disease sucks.too bad they cut the health care that would have helped other victims without their resources

[Sailor for Warner]

3. I felt bad for Nacy when Ronnie died

Just like I felt terrible when I saw Baroness Thatcher being riddled with the side effects of stroke. It is terrible for anyone, particularly when they once were such powerful world leaders.

[journalist3072]

4. I cried for her

When they showed her leaning over his coffin, breaking down and not wanting to leave, I admit that I cried.

To be sure, I was no fan of Ronald or Nancy Reagan, and detested their political views.

But I couldn't help but feel sorry for her. And I was thinking of my own great-parents.

[Redstone]

5. Harpy that she is, that did not make me feel joy in her sadness.

There's NEVER joy in a spouse's sadness, if you have any kind of humanity.

Redstone

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

50. delete

Already had an answer to what I asked.

[TomInTib]

54. No, just an example of her hypocrisy.

I will admit that I have slept with hundreds of women.

My sweetheart is watching me type this and that is cool.

I will own up to all that I have done.

I did it and that's that.

Can you believe we are even discussing this?

We are talking about the wife of Ronald Reagan.

[genieroze]

56. Honestly? No. All the damage Raygun did to this country made me

indifferent about his death. I would still take Raygun over Monkeyboy though.

[TomInTib]

59. I, too, was unaffected by his death. Well, that's not really true..

I was wishing that it would be a lot more painful.

With Monkeyboy, we have Raygun redux. Only more worldly now.

I believe Ronnie and Georgie are/were equally dangerously indifferent fools.

[genieroze]

83. There is one BIG difference between the two. Raygun would give the fundie

wackos lip service while the Chimpinator actually does what they tell him to do because like them he's a evil fundie lying bastard. Raygun just pretended to feel their pain while Chimpy makes the rest of us fell their pain.

[City Lights]

6. I did.

Regardless of my opinion of them, I was struck by the love they had for each other.

[JVS]

7. I was unable to give a damn

[EFerrari]

8. No, I didn't. Instead I felt revulsion at the hagiography

that made a mass murderer into an icon of "democracy".

It might have been morning in America but it was nightfall in those places around the world where "Ronnie" sent his torturers and his assassins and his death squads.

No, that day -- that whole long disgusting week, I felt no empathy and no sympathy for Nancy Reagan. She was, after all, his partner.

[Redstone]

10. And this "Name Everything After Reagan" mania is disgusting,

isn't it? It's not like he was worth a shit as a President.

Ah, but we can't expct the Other Side to unsderstand reality, can we?

Redstone

[EFerrari]

12. Maybe we could name a catsup after him

[Posteritatis]

28. Wasn't she offended by that too? (I don't recall.) n/t

[JI7]

9. yeah, that moment when she was in front of his casket towards the end

was very sad. it's nice she has her two kids though. i liked it when they were both by her side holding her hand as they went out to look at the flowers, cards etc that people had left for her husband.

i don't know if you were on DU then, but it was pretty disgusting. i imagine the same would happen on Freerepublic if/when a well known Dem dies.

[LittleClarkie]

15. No, I don't think I was here yet, or not much anyway

Was it a similar reaction to Ken Lay death or worse?

[JI7]

21. i just signed on to DU

been away the whole day. haven't heard any news of the day. still kind of surprised/shocked at the news he is dead.

i assume the differences would be that Reagan had been sick and away for a long time. it really made no difference in terms of what he could do at the time he died.

with Ken Lay what he has done and could do was still current. there was a trial , people lost jobs, savings etc because of him.

i can understand the anger at Ken Lay more. but i haven't really looked at the posts enough to say whether i think it has gone too far.

[lonestarnot]

11. Nope. I felt sorry for her that he lived so long.

[DemoTex]

Excellent post, LittleClarkie.

Join me and a few others in making DU a more tolerant place. Know what I mean Vern?

[EFerrari]

22. Tolerating evil isn't honor, it's complicity.

And that's why these perhaps well meant comparisons to "one of ours" passing don't hold up very well.

[MADem]

13. When Dick Cheney left a frail, almost blind with glaucoma, woman

alone in the rotunda of the Cap, to hesitantly find her way to the casket of her husband, I was simply appalled. I agreed with Ron Reagan that Dick was a shit.

Nancy is just Nancy; nothing to hate there, or get mad at, really. She might have been a bit obtuse (the dresses, the china) but she didn't care about us. She just cared about her husband. And hey, that's fine, we didn't elect her. Her name did not appear on any ballot.

And only a person with a heart of stone can be unaffected by the pain and suffering of loved ones left behind after a death in their family. We've got one of those in the WH right now.

[nancyr]

14. Grief

While I detested Reagan and all he stood for, I can, as a human, feel empathy toward those who mourn the loss of a loved one. I've done my share of mourning...and it's a universal feeling. It's the ones who show not one shred of sympathy that scare the crap out of me.

[MuseRider]

16. I did

and I felt sorry for all his family and those who loved him. Death comes to everyone, some sooner than later. At that point my animosity ends if for no other reason than for those that loved them. I may hate what they did in life but I can't celebrate their death, at least not in public.

Everyone reacts differently to these things. It will settle down soon, like it always has.

Peace.

[ThoughtCriminal]

17. Yes, but there is one thing I wanted to say

Imagine what the last few years would have been like for her if they had been poor.

Ronald Reagan received the bert possible care and plenty of help. Thousands of families have to deal with it with little long term help and face financial ruin trying to take care of loved ones.

[Mz Pip]

18. I felt bad

for a lot of reasons. It must have been a hard and painful few years to watch your loved one fade away. At times like these it is not about Dems v Repugs but just the sense if humanity. I did not have to go through this with my parnets but who knows? My kids might have to go through this with me.

I do not take any pleasure in the pain of others. Even if I do not agree with them politically.

Mz Pip

[Catch22Dem]

19. I did, but I know where you're going with this...

I don't put Lay and his wife in the same category though. I think in his own way, Reagan cared about the country. I think Nancy did too. I also think she cared about Ron very deeply. No acting there. I think Ron's family loved him very much too, from our dear Ron Jr. to that shitbag Michael.

I don't think Lay gives a shit about this country or its citizens however. I don't think his wife give a shit about anything other than the superficial. The only time I've seen her upset is when she was crying about losing all their money, yet I notice that crook motherfucker died at "one of his vacation homes."

[LittleClarkie]

24. No, I don't think I'll be shedding any tears

but I won't be getting out the bubbly either.

In some ways, it's a shame he got the quick exit. Remember the serial killer Jeffrey Dahlmer? That's what some of his victims families said when he was killed in prison. That it was too easy an out for him.

I think some were looking forward to Lay going to prison.

[EFerrari]

25. Those "roast him" posts make me feel ill. I couldn't be for

the death penalty if I tried.

On the other hand, I'd be a liar if I said I felt badly for Nancy or similarly felt anything but disgust for Lay and his whole food chain. It's going to be a really long time before California recovers from what Enron did to it. And, I'm no even up on how many trusting people in his own company he completely betrayed. How many lives he ruined or at very least, how many lives he allowed to be ruined because they weren't important enough to him to give a damn about.

Maybe it's a skill to observe the passing of someone who is clearly an enemy of the people. It wouldn't matter to me what his politics are. He did those things. He didn't even seem to think they were particularly wrong. Today, he's gone. Maybe that's the best thing that could have happened to someone with a soul like that.

[LittleClarkie]

31. It's bizarre to think that he said he was a Christian

and kept pleading his innocence even though it was quite clear he was guilty. "Everything works for good for those who love God" and all that. Enough to make the Almighty queasy, one would think.

Now he gets to have "a little chat" with his maker about his false piety.

But I can't dance. He wasn't Hitler.

[EFerrari]

33. Dancing won't restore what he destroyed, for sure. n/t

[Catch22Dem]

34. With ya 100%

[applegrove]

20. Yes.

[DesertRat]

23. Yes, I did

They were obviously deeply in love for a long time. Her pain was heartbreaking to watch.

[movonne]

26. Yes I did....I think she loved him very much..

[helderheid]

27. Yes. I cried for her pain. I can't stand to watch ANYONE in pain.

[Karenca]

29. Yes, n/t

[TomInTib]

30. I just kept seeing Peter Lawford and Sargent Shriver..

drunk as hell at the bar at the Beverly Wilshire. Telling tales about driving around Southern California with a young Nancy Davis. Banging her in the back seat of a convertible - with the top down.
They said she was the blow-job Queen of Hollywood.

Fuck her.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Ahem... Perhaps something other than "fuck her" would have been

appropriate considering the sexual nature of your post. The first thought out of my twisted little mind was "Should I get in line?"

But I don't see what that has to do with an old lady crying on a casket.

[TomInTib]

40. I know. I thought about it after another glass of wine.

But it was too late to edit.

My sweetheart feels the same as you.

Me?

When I saw her leaning over that casket, I wanted to kick her clean over it.

I just hate the whole damned bunch of them.

"Just Say No", my ass.

You do know her father was one of the founders of the John Birch Society, don't you?

But she was a babe when she was younger. I would have been in line with you.

[bbinacan]

41. Real cute

asshole.

[TomInTib]

44. Sorry. I just hate the whole bunch of them.

Including her father, one of the founders of the John Birch Society.

And I can only wish that dear Ronnie would have died a much more painful death.

I did not realise that this was a "feel sorry for the enemy" thread.

Will we post the same squishy stuff about Linda Lay?

I won't.

[LittleClarkie]

48. No, this isn't the feel sorry for the enemy" thread

but neither is it terribly relevant who Nancy used to sleep with. She never pretended to be pure. Posting stories about her sex life just seems kinda crude, really, and somewhat sexist.

[TomInTib]

52. Well, I am not sexist, by any means. But I am a little crude.

I just hate the bitch.

She had not known him - or him, her - for years. Alzheimers always does that. Most normal people feel relief at the end, not grief. Alzheimers is not an auto accident.

She was an actress, for God's sake. And a poor one, at that.

I don't care who she slept with. I think that story is just a good picture of our beloved Nancy.

"Just Say No" while I was organizing off-loads in New Orleans during our Central American Adventure(and you know what I mean).

Next we will be feeling sorry for Tammy Faye. She was a great crier.

Sorry, but I feel the world is a much better place without that fool and I only hope his witch wife is gone forever, never to resurface.

[LittleClarkie]

53. Thing is, most of us in this thread seem to think she was NOT acting

Hence, she got to us, regardless of what we thought of her.

[bbinacan]

79. Sorry I called

you an asshole. I was in a pretty bad mood at the time.

[JNelson6563]

74. Moreso for his kids

I felt a little sorry for her but more for the kids. I know what it's like to lose your dad.

Julie

[AlCzervik]

32. i did, when she was at the casket crying and didn't want to leave

i felt for her.

[wagthedogwar]

38. be human

Now take the pain Nancy felt hanging on to Ronnie's casket and multiply it by 200,000
(that's about the number of families who've had to do the same thing in Iraq)

--it is soooo easy to de-humanize people, but they are human, even republicans.

Life is short, be kind to yourselves

* * * * * *

Desiderata

Go quietly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace may come from silence.
As far as possible don't alienate, be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others,
even the dull and ignorant have a story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons--they are a vexation to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Take joy in making your plans as well as your achievements.

Keep growing in your own career, however humble;
it is a real treasure in times of changing fortunes.
Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all dearth and disenchantment,it holds perennial.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
by gracefully surrendering those things of youth.
Nurture your strength of spirit, to shield you in times of sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings for many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace within your soul.

With all its problems, daily grinds and broken dreams, the world is still beautiful.

Be cheerful and strive to be happy.

Max Ehrman



(c) Max Ehrman 1926

*edited for clarity

[LittleClarkie]

51. Deteriorata has ruined any appreciation I could ever have for that poem

All I can see is the parody version when I try to read it.

Damn that National Lampoon!

Introduction

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.....
Deteriorata! Deteriorata!

Go placidly
Amid the noise and waste.
And remember what comfort there may be
In owning a piece thereof.

Avoid quiet and passive persons
Unless you are in need of sleep.

Ro-tate your tires.

Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself
And heed well their advice,
Even though they be turkeys.

Know what to kiss.....and when!

Consider that two wrongs never make a right
But that THREE.........do.

Wherever possible, put people on hold.

Be comforted that in the face of all aridity and disillusionment
And despite the changing fortunes of time,
There is always a big future in computer main-te-nance.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Remember the Pueblo.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mu-ti-late.

Know yourself.
If you need help, call the FBI.

Exercise caution in your daily affairs,
Especially with those persons closest to you.
That lemon on your left, for instance.

Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls
Would scarcely get your feet wet.

Fall not in love therefore;
It will stick to your face.

Gracefully surrender the things of youth:
The birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan
And let not the sands of time
Get in your lunch.

Hire people with hooks.

For a good time call 606-4311;
Ask for "Ken."

Take heart amid the deepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.

And reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot
It could only be worse in Milwaukee.

Chorus

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

Therefore, make peace with your god
Whatever you conceive him to be---
Hairy thunderer, or cosmic muffin.

With all its hopes, dreams, promises and urban renewal
The world continues to deteriorate.

GIVE UP!

Reprise

You are a fluke
Of the universe.
You have no right to be here.
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe is laughing behind your back.

[wagthedogwar]

57. ...and just when I felt sorry for the bastards

Oh my god, I love that!

you made me laugh out loud little clarkie, cheers!

[pookieblue]

36. Yes

seeing anyone in that much pain tears me up inside.

[hlthe2b]

37. Absolutely....

I hope I never become so jaded that I can't respond to the emotional turmoil that is so human and the grief that we all will experience some day. I cried several times with Nancy...

I may not have been a fan of either Ronald or Nancy Reagan, but that doesn't mean I can't empathize with her loss.

[kskiska]

39. It was probably the only time she seemed genuine.

Instead of the plastic face and adoring public glances, we were used to seeing, we saw true emotion from someone who's every public moment had been stage managed.

[U4ikLefty]

42. I felt bad that he didn't die in prison where he belonged!!! n/t

[BringEmOn]

43. No. Let that shriveled up old turd burn in hell.

[zalinda]

45. No, he was old and sick, it was a blessing. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

46. Aye, but that moment at the casket still got me

When she lost it, so did I.

[wellst0nev0ter]

49. After The Way Those Monsters Trashed The Wellstone Memorial

I couldn't give a damn how distraught she was. If I remembered it, it was a carefully stagecrafted piece of theater put on by the media -- the way they always portrayed St. Ronnie throughout his presidency. She can do what she wants, they're not getting a teardrop from me.

[EFerrari]

55. Sentiment isn't the same thing as awareness.

Nancy can get an Oscar for her performance as far as I'm concerned.

She knew what she was married to. She wasn't an idiot.

Geezus. I understand (I think anyway) that LittleClarkie is calling on our better instincts but frankly, Ronald Reagan was scum. She was Mrs. Scum.

[TomInTib]

69. Hear! Hear! I couldn't stand Raygun and I can't stand * or Laura..

but I hate that witch.

There was always some horrible, cloyingly sweet-sickly-death stench around that woman.

[Jara sang]

64. Fuck no. Fuck those elitist fucks.

[niyad]

58. sorry, I just remember my "jane wyman was right" pin--hardly anybody

ever got it.

[Missy Vixen]

60. I did

Ultimately, no matter how objectionable I found Ronald and Nancy Reagan's politics, they were still in love, and she'd just lost her soulmate.

I have to hand it to Nancy. She didn't let * and his handlers exploit her, and was very critical of their stance on stem cell research. Again, don't care for her politics, but could feel for her loss as another human being.

Julie

[gumby]

61. What is the point of your post?

Are you trying to rack up 'empathy' posts vs. 'fuck 'em' posts?

Are you trying to illustrate that posters are either 'feel good' empaths or 'hateful' liberals?

Why, why, why would you bring up Nancy Reagan hugging Ronnie's casket?

This seems very, very strange to me.

[LittleClarkie]

71. No

The events of the day, the reactions to those events by some DUers, and the reaction of other DUers to those reactions all reminded me of that day when I felt compassion for someone across the political aisle. So I shared.

Make of it what you will.

[Hekate]

62. By all accounts she loved him with all her heart; everything for him

At that moment we witnessed the grief of a woman who had lost her soulmate -- that was genuine. Nancy loved Ronnie more than even her own children.

The Republican hagiography -- revolting. The Reagan record -- as governor and president -- abominable. Nancy as First Lady -- sometimes silly and vain, but she was the wife, not the office-holder.

Let grieving families alone to grieve in their own way. Including Kenny-boy Lay's family.

Hekate

[gumby]

63. Reagan was stricken with Alzheimer's.

It seems to have become more prominent after he was shot during his first term.

Nancy may have indeed been the Real 'office holder' for many years.

[niyad]

65. when it was finally "officially" acknowledged that he had alzheimer's,

I called my best friend in CA, and said, "are you and I the ONLY ones who knew he had it when he was gov?"

anybody remember him sleeping through most of his term, including iran-contra? does anybody remember iran-contra? ollie north, poindexter, , negroponte, abrams, and the rest of that slimy bunch back in power again?

so no, thinking what happened during his terms in public office (including sitting on funding for AIDS research), and knowing what little I do know about their history, I didn't feel anything about her--but then, I also didn't watch that disgusting spectacle, either.

[pitohui]

68. i knew he had it when he was governor

no you weren't the only one, even back then jokes were made abt his intelligence or more properly his lack thereof

i used to have a collection of dumb quotes of his from the 60s that were absolutely hilarious

[niyad]

72. thank you. it's good to know we weren't the only ones. did you ever

read "the last days of the late, great state of california"? excellent commentary on ray-gun's stint as governor, and how utterly, almost frighteningly incompetent he was.

[EFerrari]

66. Then, she may be responsible for the murders of many innocents.

[pitohui]

67. i felt bad for her because of what she went through

i did not feel sorry for her because he died, life without a brain is no life at all, w. alzheimer's in my family i wish they would pass some law that you could go somewhere and get euthanized when you are abt to lose your marbles, i would never wish to put my survivors thru that

i do feel bad for what a terrible time it must have been, watching your husband forget you and your children, forget his dignity, forget how to freckin eat and go to the toilet

wouldn't wish it on anybody


we should either cure this or allow people to make arrangements for themselves that don't include destroying their survivors financially, most elders aren't as wealthy as the reagans and can't afford the needed 24/7 care that may be required for many, many years -- a relation of mine took two decades to die, and most of that time she was absolutely completely unaware of reality

as it is now, the patient has a cruel choice of having to kill himself while he still has quality of life or leaving it too late and being kept alive w.out a brain for years

[REP]

70. No.

She's a worthless bitch and he was a useless fraud.

[hiphopnation]

73. Draconian drug laws and those that were affected by them.

My sympathy is reserved for them, if there's any left i suppose a bereaving republican widow could get some. that's a big if...

[Marie26]

75. Yes

That just means you're a human being first, a Democrat second. I felt bad for Nancy Reagan too, & I'd hope Republicans could feel compassion for a Democrat's pain. It scares me sometimes when people let ideology take over their basic humanity.

[bdamomma]

76. I bet Nancy felt relieved to have Ron go

Alzheimer's is a terrible disease and it is totally draining (emotionally) on a family.

I wasn't really a reagan or nancy fan.

[noonwitch]

77. Yes I did-she looked so devastated and exhausted at his funeral

I wasn't a fan of her husband's politics, but alzheimer's is a terrible way to die. I'm sure watching his decline was awful for Nancy and the Reagan family.


And, in the 80s, I was one of those who spread the nasty Nancy joke:

"What do Nancy Reagan and tampons have in common?"

Seeing how sad and frail she looked at Ronnie's funeral took all hatred for her out of me.

[ellie]

78. No, not one bit.

[benburch]

80. I did.

She clearly loved him deeply.

[ProgressivePatriot]

81. No

The best thing Reagan did for this country was to die....and that cost us $10 million.

[MadHound]

82. No, I didn't feel sorry for her

Nor did I mourn the death of Ronny boy. The ones I felt bad for were the victims of Ronnie's little excursions into El Salvador and elsewhere, along with the victims of his domestic policies.

I simply can't bring myself to mourn over the death of criminals and thugs, a description which includes Reagan, Nixon, Lay and the Bush family.

[allalone]

84. yes

I didn't like either of them, but it broke my heart to see her so bereft at the side of the coffin.