Has Anyone Heard About a New Documentary Called

[orleans]

"Islam: what the west needs to know"

a friend of mine saw it and he is going to write a short review on it (yes, he is a movie critic). after he described it to me i thought it sounded like it is fanning the flames of racism--it talks about how islam is basically a violent religion.

it sounds like this movie would be extremely controversial

it was directed by bryan daly and produced by gregory m. davis

i hesitate to even link to the film's website here.....

can anyone offer any tips, suggestions, info regarding the guys that put this film together? it sounds like propaganda

[salvorhardin]

1. I won't hesitate

Main Idea
Virtually every major Western leader has over the past several years expressed the view that Islam is a peaceful religion and that those who commit violence in its name are fanatics who misinterpret its tenets. This claim, while widely circulated, rarely attracts serious public examination. Relying primarily on Islam’s own sources, this documentary demonstrates that Islam is a violent, expansionary ideology that seeks the destruction or subjugation of other faiths, cultures, and systems of government.
http://www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com/about_the_project.asp

Note: The same could be done with Christianity. I suspect the film's makers have an ideological axe to grind.

[FloridaPat]

2. And Christianity isn't? I seem to remember it was Christianity that

conquered most of the world and tortured and killed quite a few groups of people right off the face of the earth.

[Sailor for Warner]

4. Islam conquered a much larger portion of the world in its day

And almost wiped "Christendom" off the map at several points in history. The only ones of the "big five" that hasnt had a real Empire at one point or another were Judaism and Buddism (Unless you count Solomon, which I dont).

[Sailor for Warner]

3. Geez!

Seriously, something like this happens and everyone is like "Oh Christianity is responsible for all these deaths...blah blah blah" or "The same thing could be said about Christianity" re. Islam being a violent religion. But in the next thread, in order to trash the fundies, everyone is trying to find all these quotes to show that Jesus and Christianity is all about peace love and flowers (mostly the actual case). Islam is doctrinally much less peace love and flowers and much more aggressive, etc.

Make a choice, Christianity is either violent at its heart and the Fundies are right, or it is not and the fundies are wrong.

[Crazy8s]

5. Christianity has two sides

The old testament is quite violent in its treatment of other faiths and their followers. The new testament follows Jesus' teachings, which are more of the 'love thy brother as thyself' philosophy. I'm sure there are as many positive and negative points included in the Koran. Interpretation is key.

The main problem with most religions is the followers and how they choose to interpret their faith. Unfortunately, humans can be a violent bunch when they group up and judge their beliefs to be the correct beliefs. Christianity has been every bit as violent as Islam in the past.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Interpretation is the key

there are some Muslims who say that the Qur'an teaches that the Jews angered God and the Christians were led astray-while others say no, you have that wrong-God said to honor all People of the Book, Christians and Jews alike, as brothers and sisters.

As for Christianity being as violent as Islam was in the past-just look at the Crusades. Not only did Crusaders sack Muslim towns in the Middle East, at times they also attacked Christian towns! And let us not forget that Jews were allowed to practice their faith in Moorish Spain-but when the Christians took over in 1492, the Jews were given the choice of convert or die.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I would say it is propaganda

Islam is often painted with a very broad brush by Westerners with their own axe to grind. I believe everyone here knows that not all Christians are the Timothy McVeigh type or the Eric Rudolph type. Just so, in Islam there are many different groups and branches, many quite peaceful and progressive in their views. Right now in Islam on a world-wide scale, there is a struggle between those who espouse a violent, "we're right they're wrong" attitude with those who are more universal in their approach. Every time a film like this comes out, it strengthens the hands of the fundamentalists, who cry, "See? The Sufi way (or moderate Islam way) doesn't work-they hate us and so are worthy of hate!!!" And the work done by moderates to bridge the gaps between Christians and Muslims, Hindus and Muslims, etc, etc, comes to naught. It is sad, but it is rare that peaceful overtures espousing coexistance are rarely, if ever reported by the West; nor are the persecution of Sufis by the fundamentalists in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia.

[Sailor for Warner]

7. The problem is

That Sufis are a VERY small number and moderates in other branches, especially in America refuse to take a real stand against this kind of bullshit.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Oh really?

How do you know we refuse to take a stand against the violence? Please cite sources where Sufis have refused to take part in peace conferences, where Pirs (heads of orders) have not spoken out against violence. My Pir has been talking about this since 2001-in November in Madison Wisconsin at a meeting open to the public at a Catholic retreat center there. He has organized and participated in numerous ecumenical meetings about this very problem, as have the senior teachers of the order (Murshida Tasnim was at an ecumenical conference in Dallas Texas about this last July 4th). Of course I doubt if you have heard of any of these efforts because the press does not publicize them. Even the FW Star Telegram (the one my brother in law gets) hardly covered the week long conference last year at all--maybe about a paragraph all week. And there was nothing on the news.

Now, I'm not quite sure what we should do to show our stand against violence-seems the only way we could get in the news is if something violent happened, and that's what we are trying to avoid!!!!

Please also check out the Muslim/Islam group here, as there are press releases of 600 Muslim religous leaders in America condemning the violence. Again, little covereage.

[Sailor for Warner]

10. I never said the Sufis werent participating

I was saying that there are leaders in mosques around the world who are not standing up and in some cases passivley supporting fanatics in their own ranks. 600 leaders is impressive but signing a piece of paper does nothing. It is like a preacher who talks about infidelity and chairity from the pulpit and refuses to take an active part in promoting soups kitchens and pregnancy care lines at his church. I appreciate that there are leaders and regular Muslims who are taking a stand, but I dont think it is enough.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. What else would you have us do?

The Sufis in Iran, about 2000 of them, led a peaceful demonstration when their teacher was threatened by the government. There were mass arrests, and some who were taken say they were tortured. The teacher's center was destroyed by bulldozers and set on fire, and Sufis were told that, since they had ties to other countries, they would be watched carefully as they are considered enemies of the government.

Here in this country, mosques have been firebombed and members have been threatened. There were death threats phoned into Dallas about that conference last year, and the participants had police protection.
Yet they kept up with their conference, and the Murshida who was involved is still going around the world doing her teachings about PEACE.

Do more? I don't know what else we can do. We American Muslims don't have sway over those in other countries-and we American Muslims HAVE been speaking out. You have got to realize that it is in Bushco's interest to make sure that it appears that we are doing nothing. And if you don't think the media is keeping information from you, kindly remember that most Americans don't think the Democrats have a plan, either, because the MSM tells them so.

[orleans]

11. as i said, from the way my friend described it

this movie sounds like it is going to fan the flames of racism

and it does sound like propaganda to me

he said they have professors that are quoted in the film, with impressive credentials, and that gives it what appears to be a legitimacy

i really am curious to find out about those two guys who made the movie. i found one of their names on what appeared to be a christian fundie website and -- but i don't know if it is the same person.

axe to grind? that's what i was thinking--i'm just wondering if we can find out some background on them...?

[MisterP]

13. the makers also wrote "The Politicall Incorrect Guide to Islam,"

published by FühreRegnery. It says Banana Head's invasions are a-okay because those dastardly Islamiacs invaded Visogothic Spain in the 700s. I'm in trouble then, 'coz (most) ALL my ancestors CAUSED the Fall of the Western Roman Empire!!!!
And any Welsh person can kill or enslave Mr. Spencer because they're the Romano-Britons and he's an Angle invader.