CondoSLEEZA the Liar is corrupt AND incompetetent. Therefore a perfect GOP

[In Truth We Trust]

choice to be their next nominee. I predict it will be chuck hagel ultimately with perhaps Sleeza as vp nominee.

[Richardo]

1. Can we stop with the juvenile nicknames?

:eyes:

Bushitler, Bu$h, KKKarl, Repukes, Repugs, Repigs, etc etc etc.

It's all so tiresome, adds nothing to the point and, oh yeah, is not funny.

[arwalden]

2. I'd Like To Add Two: "MSM" and "M$M".

Tiresome, paranoid.

As if it's some big monolith acting in unison with secret "MSM" meetings. :eyes:

Besides... aren't WE trying support/help/encourage the progressive news sources to eventually BECOME the "mainstream". Why are so many of us ridiculing and demeaning that which we hope to one day become?

[Richardo]

3. .

:pals:

[In Truth We Trust]

14. Are you saying that we should strive to become like the the corp media of

today? Are you saying that we should not ridicule those deserving of ridicule because someday we want to be like them? I doubt that is your intent , but that is how it reads to me.

Btw, I prefer "corporate media". It is more accurate and reflective of their goals imo.

[deaniac21]

21. I think they are saying that your criticism might be taken seriously

if it were not written in such an immature way. Ad homineum attacks are pretty much useless to the intelligent.

[Richardo]

24. Bingo.

Thanks, deaniac21 :thumbsup:

[deaniac21]

32. BTW, I LOVE 'The Great One'!

21 forever

[arwalden]

33. Oh Brother!

<< Are you saying that we should strive to become like the the corp media of ... today? >>

Are you saying that you actually don't understand what I wrote? :eyes:



<< Are you saying that we should not ridicule those deserving of ridicule >>

Are you saying that you think that's ridicule? Do you think it's clever? Valid? Accurate? -- Really? :shrug:

Frankly, things like "M$M" do not strike me as ridicule... instead it comes off as being a bit paranoid and making the person who uses it look naive and immature. It doesn't really do much to strengthen our arguments or to help the cause.


<< because someday we want to be like them? >>

Oh good grief. Give me fucking break! You're kidding, right?

Well, yes... some day I hope that we (and our progressive message) is indeed the MAINSTREAM message. There's nothing wrong with being MAINSTREAM. (I can't imagine that any RATIONAL person would interpret my words in any other way.)


<< Btw, I prefer "corporate media". It is more accurate and reflective of their goals imo. >>

Good for you! :thumbsup: I prefer that description too... Both "corporate media" and "traditional media" are concise and accurate and don't sound as idiotic as "MSM" and "M$M".


<< I doubt that is your intent , but that is how it reads to me. >>

Ah-ha... so it turns out that you WERE just playing a game. You were just pretending not to understand. Wasn't that a clever thing to do? Making an issue over that which you understood all along? Wow. Was this to try and score some 'debating' points? (Oooo! How exciting!)

And now we see that all along you actually DID understand what I meant! Well how about that? :eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

20. I hope to one day become Arwaldem

:D

[Kellanved]

26. It wold make your dative

Casually speaking.

[arwalden]

37. Thanks Misunderestimaton

:loveya: bunches!

[In Truth We Trust]

6. To each his own. Would george W Frawd annoy you too? just asking.

I personally like the accuracy and appropriateness of condoSLEEZA or condoLIAR. If the shoe fits.....

[Richardo]

7. Yeah, they all annoy me.

You can show contempt without resorting to third grade insults.

[In Truth We Trust]

9. I prefer to refer to it as "framing for the masses" ala Lakoff. You take

the high road I'll take the Autobahn.

[tigereye]

59. I think those insults lower us to their level

as much as I like Santorum, I don't call him Slick Rick in front of my kid. He is still ( sadly) our Senator.

also I don't like referring to Dr. Rice in that way since she is (as hard as it is to understand given some of her misguided views) a well-educated African American woman and the Secretary of State.

[asthmaticeog]

10. REAL NAMES NOW!!!

[arwalden]

11. HA! There You Go... That's Certainly "Framing It For The Masses"...

... eh? :rofl: :rofl:

[Susang]

50. STOP THE JUVENILE NICKNAMES!!!!!

:P

[leftofthedial]

12. umm, no

[Richardo]

13. You've elevated the debate

:thumbsup:

[leftofthedial]

15. no "debate" needed

but the demeaning names are

it's propaganda 101.

[Richardo]

16. OK if it's propaganda, what is it trying to accomplish?

What message is it really sending?

That Condoleezza Rice is underhanded and unethical, or that the person using the term is so intellectually bankrupt that it's the only thing he or she can use to make the point?

[In Truth We Trust]

18. I take offense at your elitist insult. You claim a righteousness you don't

reflect. I could spend hours documenting why CondoSLEEZA is corrupt and incompetent. I could cite numerous positions and statements and all kinds of historical fact substantiating my claim. But since you are so informed that wouldn't be neccdesary now would it?

I stated and opinion. You stated your opinion. Unless we disagree on the initial assertion I see no issue here but your dislike of they way I stated my opinion. Perhaps I should take exception to the words you choose. Would that be ok with you?

As I said earlier; you take the high road, I'll take the Autobahn.

[Richardo]

23. It's not you - it's DU in general... your post lit my fuse, so to speak

How do you feel about the terms Klintoon? Hitlery? Does someone using those terms make you want to sit still and hear whatever reasoning might be behind them? Or would you label that person an hysterical partisan who has already told you all you need to know about their views?

At DU and FR, where there are only choir members, I guess that might appeal to some as the height of cleverness. I find it juvenile.

So yeah, I guess we agree to disagree.

[In Truth We Trust]

28. regardless of your personal opinion and intellect the use of such framing

is in general quite useful and agreeably unfortunately effective. I take your point re sympathetic figures being disparaged and agree that it is regrettable and debasing to true debate. But you seem to be substantiating my position that it is an effective albeit simple tool for framing people and positions. I am obviously fighting fire with fire. When I hear another person use the term left wing wacko's I do react with a preconceived notion of that person as you correctly point out. I do not shut them out but rather engage them to eleborate to justify themselves and or their position.

It is groupthink mentality at its basest but I maintain it is still effective. Advertisers charge based on impressions that they calculate an average consumer would realize in a given period of time. tis allow their customer to "impress" an opinion on a target. Regardless of the mediim or content the net result is the same. An opinion is formed and reinforced. Fight fire with fire.

[tigereye]

67. but if you live by the sword

you often end up being impaled on it.

[leftofthedial]

19. nothing about this indicates that the name is the "only" thing

one can think of to make the point

it's just a label

[Kellanved]

25. It's just irritating

I don't understand why you think that there is a need for using "propaganda" on a left-leaning message board. We generally share the underlying assessment, there's no need to rub it in.
The use of juvenile nicknames achieves nothing and undermines debates about very real politics and problems.

[leftofthedial]

27. I couldn't disagree more

such nicknames, replacing generally well-known detailed factual background, are actually quite articulate and formative components of a coherent opposition. Some names are better than other, but "CondaSLEAZY" is quite effectively descriptive, particularly if that is the aspect of her "character" one is posting about.

I don't understand your objection at all.

[Kellanved]

31. OK, But you'll lose a number of readers

I generally stop reading a post at the first occurrence of a tiresome nickname. A fair number of posters seems to think along the same lines.

If using nickanames while preaching to the choir is more important than actually making a point, then there's nothing left to discuss, other than agreeing to disagree.

[leftofthedial]

51. preaching to the choir is a waste of time anyway

as is trying to communicate with those who ignore substance because they don't like the style

if, on the other hand, you think Rice is not sleazy, then argue your point accordingly

[Kellanved]

55. Whatever

If it's just a matter of style, then I'd recommend dropping the nicknames.

I am in the relaxed and remote position that I have no interest whatsoever in Mrs. Rice's demeanor. I don't think her work as a scholar is worth the acclaim it got. Also the application of it on today's problems is questionable.
Her performance as secretary of state is another worthy field of discussion ("Ineffective" would come to mind).

But using playground-level nicknames to imply some sort of lewd behavior has no place in serious political discourse. It might be my European background, but I don't think the private relationships/preferences/habits have any place in political discussions, regardless of the form, their truth content or the political gain possible.
In the present case it's pre-schooler form, questionable truth content and zero political gain, so they are just tiresome. But that's just my personal impression, which might or might not be shared by a majority of other readers.

[tigereye]

69. it's a cheap shot

when there are substantive arguments to be made....

[JuniperLea]

34. I wouldn't mind an objection unless it becomes an obsession

Something tells me that we are in for endless preaching of one opinion with regard to pronouns, proper nouns and satire.

[Sailor for Warner]

41. Gee sure like em

Because progressives are so darn dimwitted that we need dem silly nicknames to that we can see how bad dem Repugs are. Hehehe Repug...cause theyre Repugnant har har har. Hehe KKKarl Rove, because he is in the Klan, oh wait, that is making a broad generalization and implying that hes a horrible rascist who advocates the lynching of black people and wholesale reace terroization because he is an archetect of Bush's policies. Well I guess that is a reasonable conlusion to draw. :sarcasm: :rofl:

[Richardo]

42. I wish we could nominate individual posts for the Greatest Page

:rofl:

[Sailor for Warner]

44. Ha

:blush:

[Misunderestimator]

45. LOL!

:rofl:

[arwalden]

46. Excellent!

</burns>

[leftofthedial]

48. some names are better than others

some are just plain bad

some are inaccurate

some are perfect

[Virginia Dare]

56. Self delete

replied to wrong message

[Sailor for Warner]

57. I just got back from there

I was in Norfolk for my last tour (broken up by IA duty in the sandbox). Haha, as much as I love FL, I do think that VA has the best flag/State Motto of all.

[Virginia Dare]

61. Cool, you're welcome back anytime...

sorry I got so confused about the embedded thread I didn't know what I was replying to!

[Sailor for Warner]

63. Eh Ill stick with getting a Virginian into the Oval Office for Now

Since we are never, it seems going to have a Floridian :cry:

[Virginia Dare]

66. Unless it's the other George , then we're really screwed...

yes, it would be nice to see Warner follow in the footsteps of Washington, Jefferson, Madison et. al.

[Virginia Dare]

58. Good one Sailor,

hey did you get to Virginny yet?

[tigereye]

68. but wouldn't we have disparaged similar nicknames

given to former Sec. of State Madeline Albright ( regardless of whether she was a bit more right to center than some of us would have liked?)

[Dora]

30. I second this motion.

Infantile nicknames do nothing except stroke the ego of the user while infantilizing the recipient. It's a bullying technique.

George W. Bush has nicknames for everyone around him.

[JuniperLea]

35. Second the motion?

Was this put to a vote?

Don't we have bigger fish to fry than to worry about this? Talk about infantile.

[Dora]

43. No, there wasn't a vote.

After a motion has been made and seconded, then the vote is put to the committee. Because there is no committee on DU, there will be no vote. (There is a poll that I saw on the matter in The Lounge, btw, and a poll is the closest thing we have to a vote on DU.)

I used the phrase "second the motion" in order to signify my agreement with Richardo. It was a turn of phrase, not an official rule of order.

Regarding the size of fish available to fry, I can only observe that you apparently have enough time to disagree with me... so... :shrug:

[Sailor for Warner]

38. Thank you

*Hugs Richardo* :hug:
I didnt want to say it because everytime I say something like that I get accused of being a mole. It just makes us look like them...LIEberal, SCREWels, Algore, etc.

[Mr_Spock]

47. Don't forget SatAnn Couterguist & Bill o'Liely

I love 'em, don't you?

[Mr_Spock]

49. Condoliar & Condombusted

There are so many good ones to choose from :D

[Virginia Dare]

60. No,

I will continue to call the person who is referred to as our President a chimp. I don't recognize him as a human. You can put me on ignore if you want.

[butterfly77]

62. Not to you!

Here's some more Hangjaw Hannity, O'Lielly, Lushlimbaugh,Hulajaw bush,Wolf Bitzer,will that do for now...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[madinmaryland]

64. Can I still use an "asterisk"

in place of bush?

or "pResident" bush?

[Sailor for Warner]

65. Whateva

I personally call him the President, BUT tha is because I work for him. I was also raised to respect the office even if I do not repect the man. I didnt care much for President Clinton either (for different resons of course) but you would never hear be referring to him by anything but President or President Clinton. Thats just how I am I suppose.

[Hubert Flottz]

4. Condyloma is just itching...

to be the next neoGOPer pResident! The votes are there on the Supreme Court now even more than in 2000 and the GOP smells blood in the water!

[PATRICK]

5. Good points

Rice as the one to actually drive policy is no Cheney, but maybe they want weakness and a scapegoat so that absolutely no one can outshine the inner circle that inevitably strives to be headed by another Bush. Hagel is controlled because of his intimate pioneering relationship to DRE fraud which also works to ensure he will head off attempts to deprive the dynasty of their best future tool. Hagel will be poised to resolve the Iraq mess without ending the looters' agenda. In doing so he will be as effective and popular as Ford although a renaissance of MSM blather might save him for four years. The idiotic media praise is waiting for a cue, if a Bush prince in the wings waves an indolent hand and yawns "see you in 2012".

The Bushes have all the crony tools in place to ensure compliance, safety and ultimately failure of any "new" GOP president who not only will be the one most eager to fit that definition but who is 100% controllable behind the scenes. That means no Guiliani, no McCain, no matter how often they bend over for the crazies. No newbie, no clean rising star, no non-circle ideologue, no interim honest loser. To allow any independent presidency is a grave threat to the illegal Bushes. They will equally try to control the next Dem candidate selection, as a reluctant alternative to be quickly weakened and destroyed. Some moderate who will constantly be on the defensive while trying to steer a middle course, whose reflection of the last 8 years of DLC quietism, the MSM will spin into a disastrous plunge and party divisions. Bill Clinton survived and thrived as the economy did. That can easily and horrendously be derailed this time as the entire economic picture has swollen and radicalized. The world community will be even less eager to help a weaker Democrat than Clinton, fearing justly the real Bush power will again come back and the power in place could meantime be even more freely punishing.

It is an ugly ugly picture if the candidates from the major parties are those who will not only leave the Bush crimes untouched, but will be subject to their cruelest influence whether they like it or not.

A better start to shake up the Bushes would be for the Dems to go for broke and the jugular in 2006. There is no patient way to wait for a chance to plant one's tiny flag on the mountain of incurable cancer.

[In Truth We Trust]

8. Well said. They own the infrastructure and can create the next "king"

whether it be a dino or repuke they'll never allow for a true peoples rep but rather a true corporatist perhaps in dlc clothing.

[PATRICK]

17. It goes beyond

a useful personality or convenient ideology. they have to own the next president and know he/she is incapable of undoing their design. Blackmail or cronyism or extreme stupidity and cowardice is a requisite or else they must make/let things crash all around to stop an independent.

[dogday]

22. I like the names Condiliesalot and M$M

and any other names I can think of.. If Rove can stand up and say we support the terrorist.. I know I can stand up and call these thieves and liars what they are.....

[JuniperLea]

36. Don't you think our lessons in another's idea of proper nouns

are getting tiresome? What's with the nitpicking when there are so many other issues with greater significance?

I think it's silly to think one can campaign against an age-old DU tradition. I think a lot of those names show great creativity.

[dogday]

39. As long as Rove says we are supporting terrorist

and my Son fights in Iraq, I will call these crooks anything I like....

Cut n Run... No they want Stay n Pay.....

[JuniperLea]

40. We all have that right... for now

We still have a right to free speech and it is best used at all times.

Bushie and his band deserve it.

Interesting thought... the only person I can ever think of who venomously opposed my using the term "Bushie" was a RightWingNut...

[Sailor for Warner]

53. I understand you have the right to free speech

Which means some of us have the right to call some of the names used on here asinine and adolescent, and they make us sound just like "them" to boot.

[JuniperLea]

54. Yes, you have the right to state your opinion

But you don't have the right to bat people over the head with it forever and ever, amen. I'm not saying you do that now, I'm just saying...

[zbdent]

29. Kindasleezy Lies . . .

[lamp_shade]

52. A little respect is in order...

How's "Saint Condoleeza of the Mushroom Cloud" ?

[Cleita]

70. She would have to dumb herself down some more.

They want dumb people to run. Ever since Nixon, the Republican presidential candidates have been dumb and dumber. Reagan, Bush I, Dan Quayle (I think he lost support because he might have been a little too principled for them.), and now this idiot.