Education on Marijuana

[serryjw]

Is there any scientific proof that it is harmful to an adult or that it leads to harder drugs?

[mikelgb]

1. on the contrary

all recent articles I have seen on MJ health effects have been positive

[Jed Dilligan]

2. No

There's no such thing as "scientific proof" but the bulk of research indicates neither. Smoking is bad no matter what you smoke, but marijuana is not carcinogenic (meaning it can "only" lead to emphysema). But ingesting marijuana in other ways has not been found to be harmful to the body or mind in any measurable way.

Edited to change meaning totally.

[mike_c]

5. I believe you meant "not carcinogenic...."

eom

[Jed Dilligan]

14. Thanks, changed it.

[dysfunctional press]

6. not all smoke is created equal.

nicotine, for instance is a vascular constrictor, whereas pot acts as a bronchial dilator.
smoking pot used to be prescribed to asthmatics.

[Jed Dilligan]

7. That is true

I'm not sure how that relates to emphysema medically, though. I thought the tar was the issue.

[dysfunctional press]

10. personally...

i think that pot smoke ultimately acts to help the lungs keep themselves cleaner.

and on another note- i'm the only person i socialize with who smokes pot- and among people with similar diets/ages- my bad cholesteral level is at least 40 points lower...i'd be interested in knowing if any tests have been done to determine the effect of pot on cholesterol levels in the blood?

[madokie]

41. being a pot head since '68 and my cholesterol both LDL and HDL are

well within the range preferred. I smoked cigs until Aug '77 and today I have peripheral arterial disease. So I'm not 100% convinced that the numbers mean anything. My doc tells me it was the cigs though

[benburch]

9. Actually, there is no evidence of emphysema at all!

I've searched the literature.

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Well, that's good to know!

I always wondered how smoke could be intrinsically bad when our ancestors sat around open fires every night for most of our existence as a species.

[jbnow]

78. Actually what happened

to cigarettes is that tobacco growers started using Calcium Phosphate Based Fertilizers. It is the cheapest to use. Trouble is this leads to radioactive Polonium 210 in the lungs.
Tobacco companies know about it. There were internal Phillip Morris memos regarding this radiation contamination since 1974.

It is bad in the food chain, bad for those who live near the plants that make it...but it is especially bad when smoked. Researchers haven't found any single part of tobacco smoke that triggers cancer except the Polonium 210 from the fertilizer. They state that over 90% of smoking related cancers are caused by the choice of fertilizers. There are other health risks in using tobacco but cancer is one that could be avoided by a switch in fertilizers. Someone should sue over THAT, there is abundant evidence.

If marijuana crops are grown with this fertilizer it would also become carcinogenic, not due to the marijuana but the Polonium 210.

It amazed me when I learned about this. Sounds like some grand conspiracy theory but it is just true.

Anyway our ancestors who sat around open fires smoking whatever they smoked were most assuredly not using that fertilizer. The fertilizer started being used in the 1940's.

[misanthrope]

191. You mean our ancestors...

...that lived to 35 years of age?

[Jed Dilligan]

198. Statistics lesson:

People have always lived the same amount of time, the short average lifespans from earlier eras reflect a higher IMR.

[misanthrope]

201. That's a difficult statistic...

...to verify for a preponderance of reasons.

My belief, and that of every historian and anthropologist with whom I've discussed this, is that while, yes, infant mortality was higher, mortality across the age spectrum was higher from a variety of sources. Medical science and technology are not to be underestimated.

This is a complex question with a ton of avenues for searching down its answers, including primatology, archaeology and a variety of disciplines. Mighty intriguing.

Infant mortality 150,000 years ago was indeed higher than it is now in the United States, but current infant mortality in famine-plagued areas of the Third World are probably higher now than they were in North America 700 years ago.

It was certainly within our genes to live as long then as we do now, but their world was pretty damn dangerous compared to the one you or I inhabit.

[Jed Dilligan]

205. Yes, I meant barring accidents and disease, too

The addition of years at the end of life by medical advances has become more significant lately.

But the idea that people "lived to be about 35" in ancient times is a statistical fallacy. As today, the bulk of deaths happened early or late in life, except in unusual circumstances such as war. People lived to be 70-80 barring violence, famine, and disease, just like today, and degenerative diseases (lifestyle and environmental diseases) were as relatively infrequent as contagious diseases were relatively frequent.

[Webster Green]

3. None!

The prohibition laws are based on lies.

[iconoclastNYC]

57. Prohibition laws are also based on Racism

It was a way to harass blacka in thier "uppity" jazz clubs in harlem and mexican migrant workers.

[dysfunctional press]

4. personal info...

i have been smoking about an oz/week for going on 30 years...i don't use tobacco in ANY form.

i just had a chest x-ray, and it's clean as a whistle.

[maxsolomon]

28. oz./week?

$300/ounce x 52 weeks = $15600/year. that's a lot of weed. you're smoking 3.5 grams/day.

you must be
a. young with plenty of free time.
b. rich or a spendthrift.
c. smoking ditch weed, or stunningly immune to the effects of THC.

in any case, SA lute! :smoke: :evilgrin:

[Union Thug]

29. A friend of the family..

Smoked from morning until night. I remember him lighting a joint outside the hospital one day when visiting my mom, and just about anywhere else. Yeah, he's seen the inside of a jail cell on more than one occassion, but he didn't give a shit then and still doesn't..almost 70 years old now. I don't know how much he burned through over the years, but I'm thinking bales of hay and horses here.

[Seedersandleechers]

30. Not $300 an oz. here. More like $75.

[mike_c]

32. whoa-- $300/oz is usual here in Humboldt County...

...where a great deal of pot is grown. Of course, there are usually chains of supply through growers or friends of growers for less, but the norm for most casual buyers is a quarter oz at a time for $75 or so, give or take. I'm amazed to learn that there is anyplace left in the U.S. with dope prices int the range you mentioned.

As an aside, I still remember paying $20/oz for domestic and Mexican pot in the early 1970's. Of course the quality was awful compared to some of the good clones produced today.

[Seedersandleechers]

35. The $75 oz is Mexican. I have not seen the stuff you see

on the centerfold of High times for a very very long time. It would be so worth it.

[madokie]

45. how about 95 to 100 bucks a pound in the early '70s here.

10 bucks an ounce a full 4 finger bag too.

[mike_c]

48. yeah but it WAS likely to be mostly schwag....

I mean the first thing you did was clean out the sticks and seeds....

[madokie]

51. not really, I had smoked good thia while in bangkok, good cambodian in nam

and it was comparable to the nam and cambodia weed, what we were getting anyway

[Seedersandleechers]

64. What? You are saying skunk weed is like what you got in Nam

and Bangkok?

[noshenanigans]

196. so that's true?

I had heard that the quality has gotten a lot better through the years. Down in L.A. I pay about 60/eighth for good Humboldt (well, I'm told) stuff.

I was watching that documentary "The Drug Years" on Vh1 and they were talking about this "Columbian Gold", that I assumed was gold because of all the red. Does that stuff still exist?

[wordpix2]

37. $150 here in CT

[Pastiche423]

103. $300/oz here for medicinal pot

You can get a very nice buzz from a hit or three.

[uncle ray]

33. for about $50 a month

a person so inclined could grow all the smoke they need. and that's for a nice indoor setup, if you got some nice woods behind your house it's pretty much free.

[dysfunctional press]

39. the once price is half that...

but who buys by the ounce...?

[maxsolomon]

47. i do

an ounce lasts me a year.

[Seedersandleechers]

67. I do too. Lasts a quarter of a year..

Now if I had some of that one-hit pot-it would last me a year.

[wordpix2]

36. wow, you have good genes for lung disease

[dysfunctional press]

44. and it goes beyond that...

i have debilitating and painful condition called ankylosing spondylitis that's causing the slow fusion of my spine- because of this condition, my ribs are fused to my spine in such a way so that they don't move to allow my chest cavity to expand and my lungs to inflate fully.

[ixion]

8. Marijuana is:

Non-lethal, non-addictive (physically), and non-toxic, which means it is impossible to 'overdose'.

Neither Nicotine, caffeine nor alcohol cannot make this claim.

[Union Thug]

11. No. The gateway drug thing is the one that bothers me the most..

The only gateway is the dealer that many need to go to to get it. They are all to willing to push off a few freebies here and there.

But alone, MJ is not any sort of indicator of harder drug use.

MJ is not as physically traumatizing as alcohol or tobacco. The worst I've ever suffered as a result of prolonged MJ use is a slight cough after daily use over the course of about 6 months. Solution: cut back a little and it goes away.

I know people that have smoked daily since the late 60's that are healthy as an ox. My mom, who never smoked MJ in her life, meanwhile, is dead because of her cigarette habit. Which should be illegal again?

[MadJohnShaft]

15. "to push off a few freebies here and there" - got a beeper number?

[Union Thug]

17. That is how my bro became an ice head..

And ended up living in a cabin for ten years seeing spy satellites watching him

[Cybergata]

70. The reasoning here is...

people who use harder drugs first used pot. I have to laugh at that because they never tell you how many people who smoked or ingested pot never cared for or used anything in the "hard drug" category. That would be a far more fascinated statistic. Probably 1% or less fall into that category. I have asthma and have a cabinet full of prescription drugs to deal with it. When I was young, the asthma meds that existed were pathetic, and pot did the trick. The drug companies have to share a big part for the disinformation & propaganda that keeps pot illegal.

[Journeyman]

12. The dangers of marijuana are. . .

1) Getting busted.












(h/t A Child's Garden of Grass, originally published circa 1972)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

74. and #2...

murdering every Cheeto in the house.

[dogday]

16. Should be a law that when a person is

suffering with cancer, they get to pick which method of relief they want... Why deny suffering people?

[spag68]

18. Pot

I remember a study done 60 years ago by the fda. They gave the equivalent of 50 joints a day to rabbits and the only result was, the rabbits fell asleep and awoke with a ravenous urge to eat.

[spag68]

19. pot use

In 1961 The navy landed in columbia with 500 sailers, guess what many of us have been doing ever since. 64 and still here.

[serryjw]

20. Thanks everyone

Colorado is trying to decriminalize 1 oz for private use on November ballot

[IdaBriggs]

22. Please see post #21. nt

[Occulus]

43. lots and lots of propaganda in #21

Such as this:

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

From the mouths of fundies.....

[elehhhhna]

89. data from holland contradicts all of post 21. who do you trust?

[IdaBriggs]

113. Not a fundy. I'm the one who wants sexual predators executed, tho.

We seem to disagree on a lot of topics, you and I. :)

And what you call "propaganda" I see corroborated as "common sense" based on my family's experience. But one must always keep in mind that the studies consistently show that ONLY A PERCENTAGE of people who do this shit will end up in really bad experiences.

Load up the gun for russian roulette -- maybe you'll get lucky. Of course, the smarter ones won't play at all....

[Zhade]

117. Well, your oft-debunked claims aside (see below, for example)...

...the only important question is: do you want it to remain illegal based on your personal tangential tragedy?

If not, then your inaccurate statements aren't that threatening, because most of the world knows what you claim is NOT true, and if you're not against personal liberty in terms of how we use our own bodies, at most we have a disagreement.

[IdaBriggs]

122. Hmmm. Do I want to protect 20% of the people in the country

from having to deal with the shit that has been going on in my family, if it means 80% of the country is going to have a good time?

Tough question: NOT.

My answer is this: I do not want minors to be able to access illegal drugs. If someone provides a minor with illegal drugs (including tobacco or alcohol), I want the full weight of the world to come crashing down on their heads. If someone commits a crime, or causes injury to another while under the influence of either a) illegal drugs, or b) alcohol, I want the world to come crashing down upon their heads. And I don't want to be worried about the actions of people who my safety depends on -- firefighters, police officers, military folks with guns, air traffic controllers, meat inspectors, or health care professionals, among others -- because they decided to either a) get drunk on lunch, or b) take a toke or two, because what is the harm, after all? Nor do I want teachers to be strung out on mind altering recreational chemicals while they are responsible for the safety of students. Get the idea?

So, in answer to your question: YOUR FREEDOM ENDS WHERE MY SAFETY BEGINS. If you want to get "altered" in the privacy of your own home, go for it -- as long as you don't have children in your care. (If you do, and your actions even ONCE affect their safety, as I said before, I want the world to come crashing down around you -- alcoholics included.)

I view it this way: smokers of tobacco want their "freedom," but I want the "freedom" to breathe non-polluted air. (I'm allergic, and we have family members with asthma.) You want to smoke a cigarette, do it where it isn't going to cause problems for other people. One of my grandmother's died of cancer (she had three different kinds at the end), and she smoked for as long as she could. It was an ugly death, but I'm sure she appreciated the "freedom" she had to be as stupid as she was.

At a certain point, we have to decide if the cost of treating the 20% who *do* have problems is worth tolerating the 80% who don't. For me and mine, the answer is no. Its probably the same answer you will get from most people who have had to deal with abuse / addiction issues with loved ones.

[Zhade]

135. Well, then, we have a problem.

You're basing your "20% with a problem" on bullshit info. So, if you fight to prevent people from exercising their liberties (as long as they don't directly impair others, like someone using family grocery money to buy weed) based on your wrong assertions as to its danger, expect a fight on your hands.

Until you have the correct facts, you shouldn't try to restrict others' lives.

[IdaBriggs]

149. I believe one problem we have is that you have YOUR version of

correct facts, and I have *MY* version of "correct facts", both of us basing our opinions on studies and personal experiences.

We are in a "battle of the experts." I think we are going to have to start a different thread on this topic -- how does one determine what is a valid study or not? Is Cornell University a biased source? What about the National Institute of Health?

We are arguing opinions and interpretations, when we should be arguing facts. "A lot of people don't have problems, and a lot of people do." Since common sense isn't really all that common, perhaps we can find a way to address the issues.

So, I'm asking again: what constitutes a valid study, and who exactly is a non-biased source?

[Zhade]

159. Well, my facts don't come from the biased US government.

I've already answered regarding sources - if the US government is involved IN ANY WAY, I distrust the study, because the USG has a vested interest in manipulating the findings and outright lying about them - and then there's that pesky fact that their findings keep getting debunked by unbiased reseachers.

Once I know that there is no USG involvement in the study whatsoever, then we can talk.

[dysfunctional press]

165. actually- the USG came out with a study saying pot was harmless...

Nixon commissioned it- a HUGE study. and when the results came back NOT to his liking and expectations- he threw it in the trash.

[Zhade]

180. Oh, that's true.

You found an exception to the rule - which, of course, was trashed by the USG.

So your post should help Ida realize my point about the government lying about marijuana.

Thanks for reminding me of that!

[info being]

207. Which is precisely why you don't have the right to restrict ohers!

[wordpix2]

38. gawd, don't CO legislators have anything better to do like protect nationa

l lands?

F**ck

[uncle ray]

203. it might be the pot speaking but

i think it's the federal government's job to protect national lands, the state can worry about STATE lands. maybe when the feds stop criminalizing pot possession then the PEOPLE of colorado can quit wasting our time in efforts to legalize it. personally i applaud the CO legislature for doing what the people of this state want.

[tridim]

194. It's technically already legal in Denver

We voted on that awhile back.

What's up with the new law? State-wide?

[serryjw]

220. 1 oz of less would be

decrimalized in CO(private use only)

[IdaBriggs]

21. Yes. It lowers your white blood cell count, and interferes with short term

memory.

http://health.yahoo.com/topic/addiction/other/article/pt/Psychology_Today_articles_pto_term_marijuana

What happens after a person smokes marijuana?

Within a few minutes of inhaling marijuana smoke, the user will likely feel, along with intoxication, a dry mouth, rapid heartbeat, some loss of coordination and poor sense of balance, and slower reaction time. Blood vessels in the eye expand, so the user's eyes look red.

For some people, marijuana raises blood pressure slightly and can double the normal heart rate. This effect can be greater when other drugs are mixed with marijuana; but users do not always know when that happens.

As the immediate effects fade, usually after 2 to 3 hours, the user may become sleepy.

How is marijuana harmful?

Marijuana can be harmful in a number of ways, through both immediate effects and damage to health over time.

Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult.

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Under the influence of marijuana, students may find it hard to study and learn. (14) Young athletes could find their performance is off; timing, movements, and coordination are all affected by THC.

Some of the more long-range effects of marijuana use are described later in this document.

How does marijuana affect driving?

Marijuana affects many skills required for safe driving: alertness, the ability to concentrate, coordination, and reaction time. These effects can last up to 24 hours after smoking marijuana. Marijuana use can make it difficult to judge distances and react to signals and sounds on the road.

There are data showing that marijuana can play a role in crashes. When users combine marijuana with alcohol, as they often do, the hazards of driving can be more severe than with either drug alone.

Health Hazards

THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus, a brain component that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of senses with emotions. Learned behaviors also deteriorate.

Long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs.

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers.

Does using marijuana lead to other drugs?

Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other drugs without first trying marijuana. The risk of using cocaine has been estimated to be more than 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Although there are no definitive studies on the factors associated with the movement from marijuana use to use of other drugs, growing evidence shows that a combination of biological, social, and psychological factors are involved.

Marijuana affects the brain in some of the same ways that other drugs do. Researchers are examining the possibility that long-term marijuana use may create changes in the brain that make a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as alcohol or cocaine. While not all young people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, further research is needed to determine who will be at greatest risk.

Stats on children and use http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

(same page lists health effects; this one is important -- )

Other Health Effects

Some of marijuana's adverse health effects may occur because THC impairs the immune system's ability to fight disease. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited14. In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors15,16.

[serryjw]

24. I don't smoke but I do see

cigarettes and alcohol much more toxic and dangerous.

[IdaBriggs]

52. Degrees of perception of 'bad' are interesting.

Just because one is bad doesn't make the other good. :shrug:

[iconoclastNYC]

58. It's useful to compare

The government says : "Alcohol and Cigarettes are OK" but Pot is bad....and illegal.

Why?

Certainly not based on a neutral evaluation of the medical studies.

Certainly in my mind there'd be a lot less domestic abuse if people got high from pot rather then jack daniels.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. That's right. Just because pot may have some minor (or "bad") side effects

it doesn't mean it's "good" to spend $40 Billion a year on a bullshit "drug war"- in the process making the United States the #1 per capita incarcerator of non-violent offenders- or to continue classifying consenting adults who choose to smoke or otherwise ingest it into their bodies as "criminals". :shrug:

[serryjw]

145. I agree

but this is not about what is good or bad for you. There is no amount of cigarettes that you can smoke and feel it will damage you.....BUT it's legal. Sugar & fried food are a lot more damaging to a human than pot. I do smoke cigarettes and don't smoke pot....I'm only defending the absurdity of our laws.IF 1 oz of pot relieves stress than maybe in the long run there will be less heart attacks.......the medical community thinks that of a glass of wine!

[IdaBriggs]

150. Now you are talking two different issues -- safe, versus legal.

The question of whether a substance SHOULD be legal is an interesting one. The big debate here is whether or not its safe.

I'm going to stick to my position that it can be "safe" for some people, but its obviously not safe for everyone, and if I find you've been providing it to my minor children, I'm going to make it REALLY *unsafe* for you! :)

[serryjw]

153. Click the link above

Currently Colorado's penalty is a $100 fine for 1 oz or less in private use. That is what the November initiative is to totally decriminalize it. I was just doing research and it is cost US over $8 BILLION for enforcement. We may disagree but I think this is a waste of money and resources. Whether it is cigarettes, alcohol or pot we are always talking about adults. Anyone younger is their parents problem.

[dysfunctional press]

25. Bwahahahahahahahaha....

sure are a LOT of "mights" and "may-be's" in those paragraphs.

i'd LOVE to see it's effects compared to those of tobacco and alcohol and caffiene- ALL MUCH more harmful to the body/mind, and all completely legal.

nice propaganda piece, tho'...

[Occulus]

42. This was the best part:

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

Didja notice how it jumped from "marijuana use" to "drug use", and then after that paragraph jumped back?

Transparent as glass. The MSM does this all the time regarding pot busts: it's called a "drug bust", and usually doesn't specify WHICH drug.

[IdaBriggs]

54. Marijuana is traditionally deemed to be a gateway drug because

one starts out with it; when one's head does not immediately explode, it becomes "acceptable" at some level to try "other" things.

Heroin is currently going for $3 a try among our local teenagers. One of my beloved nieces who started using pot has since become a heroin addict, with the occasional use of ecstasy tossed in. While this doesn't happen to everyone (just like everyone who drinks alcohol doesn't immediately become an alcoholic), you couldn't pay me enough to offer it to my children as an after dinner aper tiff. Unfortunately, my sister did that, and hence we have my niece and her problem. On the other hand, her sister just graduated from college, despite her mother's drug use. It appears to be a game of russian roulette, with some people heading to hell on earth in the proverbial hand basket, while others just continue to move on with their lives.

:shrug:

[iconoclastNYC]

59. Shows the idiocy of lumping pot in with harder drugs.

Our youngsters should be taught that some drugs are realitively benign and others are life-altering.

Making no distinction between pot and harder drugs may lead some to disbelieve whatever you tell them about Herion, Meth, or Crack.

[elehhhhna]

91. I don't know ANYBODY who passed out in public, peed on themselves, got

assaulted, crashed their car, slept with an idiot, etc. while high on pot.

Booze? Different story altogether.

Anecdotal evidence, yes--but too consistent to be denied.

[IdaBriggs]

110. Ooh! Me! Me! I do! I've got at least one niece, thanks to it!

But to be fair, I'm related to quite a few idiots! :)

[Warren DeMontague]

72. That's right. I would say Al Gore managed to come out alright.

Same with Carl Sagan.

Newt Gingrich, I'm not so sure about.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. Given the historical preponderance of alcoholism in my family

I wouldn't give after dinner aper tiffs as after dinner aper tiffs.

But pot doesn't "make" anyone a heroin addict. That's ridiculous. If anything, the #1 "gateway" drug in this country is alcohol, because drunk people are way more wont to do stupid shit of all stripes than anyone on any other substance that I've ever come across.

Pot doesn't "lead" to heroin any more than Des Moines "leads" to New York City. It's possible for people who end up in one place to have passed through the other, but it doesn't prove anything.

[IdaBriggs]

148. I apologize for the repetition, but this thread is getting quite unwieldy!

Pot was a gateway drug for my niece. It felt good, and she began to actively seek out other drugs to help her "feel good" when the "bad effects" of her marijuana use began to overwhelm the "feel good" from the pot. Specifically, dropping out of sports because she couldn't pass the drug tests (and preferred getting high to going to practice), failing school because her short term memory was shot / she was too high to study, and getting pregnant because she and her druggie boyfriend "forgot" to use protection while strung out.

Pot = FEEL GOOD. Effects of Pot = FEEL BAD. Rather than demonstrating the maturity to stop smoking pot, she began to actively seek out "better" drugs that would give a "BETTER FEEL GOOD" which led her to Ecstasy and then Heroin (available for $3), which not surprisingly, led to her heroin addiction.

Oddly enough, alcohol wasn't something she got involved with because "only dumb people drink." :eyes:

Unfortunately, her mother did not consider marijuana to be a "bad thing", and apparently supplemented her SSDI as a dealer, including providing it to her daughter's boyfriend the day after he came home from a drug rehabilitation program (which caused a huge rift between us when I found out about it one family Christmas!). She apparently supplied it to her children "because at least then she knew where they were getting it." The older daughter left home for college, had a run in with the law involving a college party (which we're not supposed to know about -- shhh!), and fortunately has managed to become a credit to the planet. (She graduated college, is a vehement vegan, and is now planning on going to pharmacy school -- the irony!) The younger sister was not so "lucky" as to escape the negative consequences of the extremely risky household she grew up in; her (ex?) boyfriend has spent a great deal of time in jail starting when he was sixteen or seventeen, and I have officially lost track of the number of auto accidents she has been in, the worst of which was rolling a car on I-75 while strung out.

My niece's story is not unique. For the percentage of kids who end up in trouble, its a pretty common tale. The studies I have read seem to find a correlation between the age of "first use" (fourteen years old = messed up life / college = not that big of a deal).

Obviously not everyone has these types of problems. For those who do, its a tragedy. For those who don't, its not that big of a deal. :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

164. I will grant you, that's a sad story. Although I'm not convinced it's

the "fault" of THC.

I also am not convinced your niece's story would have turned out any "better" if she had been one of those "dumb people" who drank, rather than (or in addition to) smoking pot.

I'd be happy to regale you with tale after tale after tale, all equally tragic and sad, of lives I know of which were destroyed, demolished, or otherwise damaged through and by alcohol. I'm one of the 10% or so of the population that can't drink; and I'm pretty sure there's a genetic, physiological causative factor behind it. All I know is, I couldn't drink "normally" from the get-go. Alcohol didn't "make" me an alcoholic; and I don't "blame" the distillers of, say, Jack Daniels for the hell my life became before I finally got clean & sober many years ago.

But all my experiences, the wreckage that I've seen alcohol cause in people's lives (I've seen wreckage caused by drugs, too- but in all honesty, out of every substance I've watched in action in people's lives, from nicotine to cocaine and worse-- marijuana is bar none the most benign thing I've seen people do. Not to say no one has problems with it, or it's all hunky dory- but all things being equal, for most people, it is a relatively benign substance) has never led me to think that prohibition works, or that there's any logic or sanity in trying to turn, say, liquor drinkers (the ones who have the sensibility not to get behind the wheel drunk, that is) into criminals. Same thing with pot. I'm thoroughly convinced that the drug war causes more harm than legalized, regulated, availaible like alcohol to adults 21 & over pot ever could, and for the people that do have problems with pot or other substances, the answer is to treat it like a public health issue and plow all that "law n' order" money into treatment on demand.

Just my 2 cents.

[dysfunctional press]

166. so- should EVERYTHING that causes SOME people problems be banned?

oh...like...alcohol?
(LOTS more problems with alcohol- even among teens)

tobacco?

peanuts?

fatty foods?

why do you think that we should be some kind of "nanny state", instead of letting people decide for themselves?

[Zhade]

181. Because she lost someone, and blames the wrong thing.

I can fully understand and empathize with that.

I cannot, however, allow lies to be told, even if unknowingly. I feel for her, I really do, but this idea of prohibiting marijuana use based on her personal tragedy (that was not CAUSED by pot) crosses the line.

She does deserve sympathy, though. So Ida - :hug:

[nashville_brook]

185. aspirin made me feel good. next it was Vioxx.

[Cybergata]

76. I already posted this above, but here it goes again!

It would be a more realistic view of the how marijuana is not a gateway drug by showing statistics of how many people smoked or ingested grass and either preferred not to use or never used hard drugs. I can promise you that statistic would show just how bogus the gateway argument is. I don't smoke pot because it is illegal, and that is the only reason. All the ones that you gave earlier are just the same propaganda we all have heard over and over and over again. I worry more about the propaganda than I do about marijuana. We heard about the "dangerous" effects of marijuana in the 50s and 60s. We smoked weed, and since everything said about it was a lie, we figured that all the other warnings about drugs were lies as well. Maybe marijuana wouldn't be a gateway drug for that small percent that it is if the truth was told. BTW, I know Harvard graduates beside George Bush who smoked Marijuana and are quite successful by society's terms.

[IdaBriggs]

93. I used to have a pamphlet that talked about the actual percentage

of teens who used pot as a "gateway" drug -- its not at my fingertips at the moment. Anyway, one of the things it specifically broached was the AGE when someone used it 'for the first time' -- the younger the first time user, the increased risk of it being a 'gateway' drug.

So, for example, if you use 'magic weed' for the first time in college while going through that dangerous experimental time, you have a better chance of not getting your life ruined than you do if you are a fourteen year old. For that fourteen year old, this 'risky' behavior and its resultant 'feel good high' becomes something to pursue (since they don't have the maturity that even an eighteen year old does, unfortunately), and that is when things get UGLY -- but not for everybody, thank goodness.

While the vast majority of folks (I think the study said 80%, but that is from memory) don't end up in 'disaster' situations with 'harder' drugs and alcohol, those 20% who do usually end up falling hard (and my family has several examples of them) with all of the characteristics of 'bad things happening to good people' stuff.

Hence my "russian roulette" analogy. If it only gets ugly for one out of five people, should the rest of society be concerned? My answer is yes; you might have a different one.

Then again, I will bluntly state that my perception is very much affected by the family tragedies I have experienced thanks to the use of (illegal) recreational drugs. I will wonder for the rest of my life, if my sister had bothered to get her white blood cell level checked, and known that her use of marijuana was responsible for lowering it, would she still be alive?

She was 39, and I will never know the answer to that question. Then again, since she was providing illegal drugs to minors (her then sixteen year old daughter, and her daughter's boyfriend, also sixteen THE DAY AFTER HE GOT OUT OF A DRUG REHAB PROGRAM), and their lives have pretty much been destroyed (heroin addiction / jail), maybe we are all better off with her dead, and unable to spread the poison to other people's children.

What a terrible, terrible thought her decisions have left me with! :cry:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

79. So then the alcohol was the gateway drug for your niece...

not the pot.

[IdaBriggs]

94. Uh, no. For her, it was the pot, provided by her mother.

ON EDIT: I know this specifically because of a discussion she and I had at my grandmother's funeral. She didn't drink, she told me haughtily, and pot wasn't *really* that bad for her. She was sixteen at the time.

[Zhade]

109. It still wasn't the marijuana.

It was the LIES about it (like the ones in your post #21) that led kids like her to surmise that the government also lied about other drugs' effects.

That's why bullshit, repeatedly-debunked lies like those in post #21 are far more harmful than marijuana (which is by itself actually beneficial, and even the 'dangers' of its smoke arguably overblown).

[IdaBriggs]

118. Wow. So, you think because "marijuana is bad" is "A LIE", that is why

so many lives are ruined because of recreational drugs?

Personally, I think her life was ruined because MARIJUANA FEELS GOOD, and so she started looking for other drugs to MAKE HER FEEL GOOD when the "high" from marijuana wasn't enough to drown out the side effects the marijuana use began having on her life: dropping out of sports because she couldn't pass the drug test, failing school because she couldn't remember things, and getting pregnant because she and her druggie boyfriend weren't "remembering" to use protection whlie strung out.

But, that might be too much in the common sense department for a lot of people to understand. Its really the government's fault, right? :eyes:

[Zhade]

137. You can't see the logic in that? I thought it was self-evident.

"Marijuana is bad" IS a lie, so let's dispense with the scare quotes, first off.

Second, your description of her sounds like she was filling a need, and if it wasn't pot, it could have been booze (like my parents, before they sobered up) or food or cigarettes or hang-gliding or...

It wasn't the pot that made her need to fill the hole. Sounds like she had an addictive personality, which again is sad and I really do feel for your loss.

[IdaBriggs]

151. I don't agree with you. I believe marijuana is bad, otherwise she

wouldn't have been dealing with the "bad effects" of it.

She dropped out of sports (because she couldn't pass the drug tests / was too strung out to go to practice) = bad effect.

She began failing school (because her short term memory went to shit / she was too strung out to study) = bad effect.

She ended up pregnant (because she and her druggie boyfriend couldn't "remember" to use protection while strung out) = bad effect.

Bluntly, she was too damn young to have the maturity to understand what she was dealing with, and someone she trusted/respected was telling her it was okay.

One of the "experts" we talked with about her addiction told us that she had become "emotionally frozen" at the age she started using drugs, because it "numbed her" so she didn't have to deal with "pain / growth" that came with coping with normal teenage stuff. This still makes a lot of sense to me, based on talking to her; even at twenty, its like talking to a child....

Oddly enough, alcohol wasn't something she messed with (to my knowledge), because as she scornfully told me one time, "only dumb people drink." :eyes: Of course by this point she was putting needles between her toes....sigh....

(We are putting aside the medical affects on my sister, who was an adult free to make her own dumb ass decisions, by the way, and dealing strictly with the teenage niece in this discussion.)

Saying she had an addictive personality is an easy out; prior to becoming a regular user of marijuana at age fifteen / sixteen, I actually thought she was going to make it. Now, I wonder who is going to pay for her funeral....

[Zhade]

158. More assumptions...

"because she couldn't pass the drug tests" - in that case, the drug laws were responsible, not the pot. As far as "too strung out" - one doesn't GET strung out on friggin' POT unless one has the kind of personality that would tend that way even without the drug of choice.


"She began failing school (because her short term memory went to shit / she was too strung out to study)"

Since we're trading anecdotes, my IQ scores went UP after I got baked. Go figure. (And the 'strung out' thing, see above).


"She ended up pregnant (because she and her druggie boyfriend couldn't "remember" to use protection while strung out"

Funny, I always - without fail - remembered to use protection EVEN RIGHT AFTER GETTING BAKED.

Your anecdotal stories don't bear on the science. Marijuana does not itself harm people.

"Saying she had an addictive personality is an easy out; prior to becoming a regular user of marijuana at age fifteen / sixteen, I actually thought she was going to make it. Now, I wonder who is going to pay for her funeral...."

It's not an out, it's a fact that some people do in fact have such personalities, and become addicted to anything that numbs their pain or helps them escape. Sounds like the case here.

And again, I am sorry for your loss. Just don't blame it on the pot. THAT'S a cop-out.

[dysfunctional press]

167. did she ever smoke cigarettes before she started with pot?

tobacco use by a minor is just as illegal as pot- so that would make tobacco the gateway drug, if she smoked them first.

[High Plains]

123. Hmm, heroin cheaper than a pack of cigarettes.

Maybe, just maybe, we should start thinking about means other than prohibition to deal with our drug use.

[Ariana Celeste]

125. We definitely should.

As it stands, it's easier for a teenager to find and buy pot, then it is for a teenager to buy cigarettes or alcohol- at least, that's how it was for everyone I knew in high school just a few years ago.

So in effect, legal and behind a counter= harder to get.

[dysfunctional press]

162. most people DO NOT start with pot-

they generally start with tobacco or alcohol first.
and since they generally start before they are of legal age- alcohol and tobacco use is just as illegal as pot.
so- to call pot a/the primary "gateway" drug is COMPLETELY IGNORANT HORSESHIT.

[eridani]

215. That handbasket to normal life ratio is about--

--15 out of 100, same as for alcohol.

[IdaBriggs]

53. As I said in another post, just because tobacco and alcohol are bad

doesn't make marijuana good. I'll even add "excessive caffeine use" to the list of "not good" things.

[dysfunctional press]

161. try to tell a medicinal marijuana user that it isn't good...

i'm one- and i can tell you that it is.

[Zhade]

182. Same here. I'd claw my eyeballs out without it some days.

That whole glaucoma thing really sucks, and the optometrist worries that I have it, and at such a young age. The pain I get in my eyes is a strong sign. I have a return visit specifically for glaucoma in six months.

It's a beneficial plant, government-sponsored lies notwithstanding.

[benburch]

26. A load of Government bullshit there. nt

[IdaBriggs]

55. That is your opinion, ben. Unfortunately, when it doesn't cause

problems for "everyone" (just like only some smokers get cancer), a lot of people immediately dismiss the science. One of the studies that most disturbed me was when they discovered that folks who smoked ONE JOINT A WEEK for ONE YEAR had a 44% lower white blood cell count than folks who were in the "control" group. (The paperwork for that reference isn't immediately available to my fingertips.) Unfortunately, we will never know how much her "regular" use of marijuana contributed to my sister's death -- she had MS, and died of pneumonia. :cry:

[iconoclastNYC]

62. Nothing is even sourced in that article

So basically it's the governments oppinion.

[IdaBriggs]

97. If you want to find the sources, you can. I did.

And I find it humorous how some people make decisions about when the government is telling the truth, and when its lying -- usually it has to do with whether or not their own admittedly biased opinions are supported.

For myself, I am not a user, and I did the research because I was trying to find out what the hell was going on with my family. Now, I did not like the answers I found, but then again, I didn't like what was happening to my family, either.

My opinion prior to finding out my beloved niece was a heroin addict was strictly in the "I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home." Now, its firmly in the "KEEP THAT SHIT AWAY FROM MINORS!!!" camp.

[Zhade]

112. If you can, prove that you did.

Otherwise, those of us who have already read these lies and the facts that debunk them can easily dismiss your unevidenced claims.

[benburch]

69. But that study wasn't true.

It was debunked.

[IdaBriggs]

134. Ben, the study I read seemed extremely credible to me.

I am going to end up digging the drattable thing up, and then I'm going to share it with you.

In the meantime, can you please tell me what YOU would consider credible? Despite our disagreement on this topic, I've got a lot of respect for you. It appears to be that we are at a "battle of the experts" situation, and I'm not sure how to go about addressing this issue.

I've said it in a different post -- there is baggage on this issue, and I think everyone is pretty passionate, and considers themselves to be "well informed." The studies that I am aware of do coincide with observable personal experience that I have, and it appears that you (among others) feel the same way.

If I think the experts I've read are "right" and you think the experts you've read are "right", and we both have personal experience to back up our opinions, then how can we ever get this disagreement resolved?

[Zhade]

140. Here's a tip: DON'T rely on "studies" done by the USG.

They have a vested interest in pot remaining illegal, which should be clear to everyone on this board. Logic dictates that the conflict of interest rends their 'results' questionable at best.

[IdaBriggs]

152. Is Cornell University someone you would consider valid? nt

[Zhade]

157. Depends. Did the USG fund the study? Then no, not in that case.

NT!

[LaPera]

75. 30 years of research: Find NO link between marijuana, lung cancer. AND

reports have also discounted the theory of a link to lower white blood cell counts in pot smokers. Just as they tried in vein to make a connection with pot and lung cancer for over thirty years...I've read the same bullshit about other "government" funded studies, saying pot "lowers white blood cell count" -- Just the usual government pot propaganda bullshit! They've been thrown this shit and that shit out for years and have NEVER proved any of their lies and the lies are ALWAYS dis-proven...Still gullible people keep believing and telling these lies as truth's, and we clearly see who!!!

The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.

The new findings "were against our expectations," said Dr. Donald Tashkin, a UCLA pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.

"We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."

Federal health and drug enforcement officials have widely used Tashkin's previous work on marijuana to make the case that the drug is dangerous. Tashkin said that while he still believes marijuana is potentially harmful, its cancer-causing effects appear to be of less concern than previously thought.

Earlier work established that marijuana does contain cancer-causing chemicals as potentially harmful as those in tobacco, he said. However, marijuana also contains the chemical THC, which he said may kill aging cells and keep them from becoming cancerous.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/26/MNGAKJ2S481.DTL&hw=pot+lung&sn=001&sc=1000

[Viva_La_Revolution]

84. I smoke weed, and the last time I had a cold, cough, or even a sniffle

was close to 4 years ago.

My roommate on the other hand, who never smokes pot gets 2-3 colds every year and bronchitis at least once a year.

I've never gotten a 'rapid heartbeat after smoking. no loss of balance either.

Yes, it affects your brain - so like alcohol, you shouldn't drive or operate machinery.

My mom has MS and smokes pot occasionally (1-3 times per month) when she gets leg spasms. it stops the cramps immediately, where the prescription she got takes 30-45 minutes.
The cigs she keeps smoking may kill her though.

I had walking pneumonia 18 years ago, they almost put me in the hospital, and I didn't smoke then.

I doubt the pot had anything to do with your sister getting pneumonia. Did her doctors say it did?

[Union Thug]

27. That's some quality propaganda..full of non-definitive maybe this or that.

This is just silly, especially for those that are or live around long term MJ users.

[IdaBriggs]

82. My favorite long term MJ user is dead (my sister, age 39).

Hopefully you won't have to attend the funeral of yours. She had MS, and died of pneumonia on December 29, 2003. She left behind two daughters, then ages eighteen and twenty. (Their biological father had died of a heroin overdose years before.) One study clearly stated that smoking ONE JOINT PER WEEK FOR ONE YEAR resulted in white blood cell count 44% LOWER than folks with the same medical condition who didn't smoke MJ at all. We will never know how much her use of "MJ" contributed to her unexpected sudden death at age 39.

Another "favorite long term user" has a tradition of picking abusive men (who also indulge in recreational drug use), and I've had the "privilege" of visiting both her and her last ex-husband while they were hospitalized -- her for getting the shit kicked out of her from one of the early conquests, and him after he tried to kill himself while "self medicating" for his "issues."

In the meantime, since she didn't see anything wrong with MJ use, my (deceased) sister provided it to her children (partly because she supplemented her SSDI by selling illegal drugs, and partly because she was an idiot), and the (then eighteen year old) was officially a heroin addict by March of 2004. The family found out when she rolled her vehicle on I-75 while strung out on drugs; she survived it, and has been in rehab several times since. At one point I was told she was supporting herself as a prostitute (she was nineteen by this time). I'm not sure where she is at the moment because after she got caught stealing from my brother (a thousand dollars worth of his tools, six hundred dollar cash, and forty dollars from her twelve year old cousin) she was kicked out, and does not currently maintain regular contact with any of us. :cry:

Dismissing the dangers of recreational drugs -- alcohol, tobacco, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, etc. -- is something that foolish people commonly do. Of course, the last funeral I attended in my "summer of death" (last year) was that of an eighteen year old. Alcohol was a primary cause of death in that particular grievous experience, so don't mistake me for a fan of alcohol abuse, either.

A dear friend of mine is a "regular" long term MJ user, and appears to have suffered minimal "bad effects"; as I said in an earlier post, this type of drug use appears to be a game of russian roulette, with some people having serious problems, and others having none whatsoever.

With the family tragedies I have experienced, I choose to err on the side of caution, and will do everything in my power to keep it (meaning illegal drugs, alcohol and tobacco) out of the hands of minor children. Since studies show that people who use any of these products for the first time ONCE THEY ARE EIGHTEEN have a much smaller percentage of having long term "problems" with them, this seems like a sensible course of action. That won't protect everyone since there are still going to be a percentage of people who have addictive personalities, etc., but it seems like a reasonable bite of the problem apple to me.

[LaPera]

86. The studies are government funded BULLSHIT dear!!!

Sad story...But it sure as fuck wasn't the pot that lowered her white blood cell count...Hundreds of millions of pot smokers around the globe DON'T have lower white blood cell count because they smoke pot...

I know myself smoked for over thirty-five years and so many others who don't.

Your blaming the death on pot, Show me the study...it's complete bullshit...

[Zhade]

114. Sad. But not dead from marijuana.

Maybe, at most, dead from the lies told about it that led her to thinking other drugs must have been lied about, too.

I'm sorry for your loss, but no objective scientific evidence supports the claim that marijuana kills.

None.

[Union Thug]

141. Although I am deeply sorry for your loss...

I'm not sure that I am convinced that pot was the culprit in any of the cases cited.

I'm not familiar with the study that you cite, but I would sure like to see it and have it contrasted against other reports to the contrary.

At risk of sounding presumptuous, to blame pot for psychological/mental issues is misguided. I doubt marijuana had anything to do with the relationship issues cited in your text or the attempted suicide. These are personal problems that go way beyond the choices one makes to cover the pain. Based only on what you've said, the problems inherited by your niece were not the result of pot, but the result of a living in a severely dysfunctional home. Heavy drug use may have been a symptom, but they don't sound like they were the cause of the problems.

I also take issue with the implication that pot and heroin use are somehow connected. I've smoked pot off and on for 25 years and never thought of shooting up even once. I've never had any interest in coke, meth or crack, either. If you want to pursue that argument, then we had better back way the hell up to cigarettes and alcohol, because I don't know ANYONE that smokes pot that didn't try alcohol or cigarettes (or both)first.

Nobody is dismissing the dangers of drug use. Responsible drinkers don't kill themselves or others with cars. Same with potheads. I have never driven buzzed, stoned, or drunk. We are talking about personal responsibility here. That some people are not healthy enough to make good choices for themselves should not translate into denying responsible people the things that they enjoy in life. I smoke to relieve stress and to help me sleep. I enjoy it, smoke several times a week, and am not hurting anyone in the process.

Again, I am sorry about your loss. There is nothing that stops that pain. But to place the blame on a little green plant doesn't seem to be honest, at least in my opinion.

[dysfunctional press]

168. marijuana didn't kill her. OR give her MS.

i know several people with MS who began smoking AFTER their suffering started, because of being un-insured and not being able to afford proper pain meds.

your posts in this thread make you sound like a bitter, twisted, and vindictive person.

you want to blame anyone and anything for your families woes- you chose pot.

genes and/or upbringing are the likely culprits.

[mike_c]

31. all of this info is derived from biased, untrustworthy sources....

The U.S. gov't. Most are intrinsic to the fact that marijuana is an intoxicant-- that's WHY it's used recreationally. By their very nature, intoxicants alter perception and cognition in a dose dependent manner. That is expected, and is not an adverse health effect at all. Don't operate dangerous machinery when stoned. Don't try to follow life-or-death instructions when toked up. That's just common sense, IMO. Most animal studies that showed any adverse affects were at dosages far exceeding recreational use. EVERYTHING you can consume has a toxicity threshold, even oxygen.

Many of the statements in your post are simply propaganda, i.e. linking marijuana to tobacco induced respiratory disease. I do not believe there is ANY credible data in that regard. The statement that "that very few young people use other drugs without first trying marijuana" is also true of alcohol and increasingly a potpourri of prescription pharmacueticals. Much more so in the case of alcohol thn marijuana.

And while we're on the subject of alcohol-- the adverse health effects of alcohol use are well documented. If alcohol users shifted their preference from alcohol to marijuana-- not a simple matter, I know, but IF that were generally possible-- their long term health prospects would improve dramatically. Alcohol kills directly-- it's a physiologic toxin and its abuse is a chronic disease. On the other hand, no one has EVER toked themselves to death-- but since there are always exceptions to the rules, I'll grant the remote possibility, although it's so remote that I would gladly wave a magic wand and convert every alcoholic's drug dependency from ethanol to marijuana in an instant if it were possible to do so. It would save many lives.

[IdaBriggs]

87. Many of your points are addressed in my previous answers to folks on

these topics. Just because alcohol and tobacco are "bad" doesn't mean marijuana is "good" -- again, rather than becoming boring with repetition, see my previous comments.

As for your point that "the government is biased," I find that highly amusing. So, sometimes studies by medical professionals are right (when they agree with your point of view), and sometimes they are wrong (when they don't). Perhaps you would be comfortable with the same standards you espouse being applied to say, cancer drugs? Its not so bad, if they only kill ten or fifteen percent of the people who use them? Or whatever the percentage happens to be that you are comfortable with?

Studies by their very nature use "many" and other such qualifiers, because different people react "differently" but there are enough UNBIASED studies out there for me to be comfortable saying "I don't want someone operating heavy machinery while they are under the influence of either alcohol or recreational drugs. I don't want my children using illegal drugs. I don't want people who are strung out on either alcohol or recreational drugs attempting to do important tasks like caring for small children, or making life / death decisions (like firefighters, police officers, air traffic controllers, or health care professionals, for example) because I don't trust that they are at the top of their game, and my life, as well as that of people I love, is therefore at unnecessary risk."

And since personal experience is such a huge deal in our perception of whether or not illegal drugs and alcohol abuse are dangerous, I will stick to my earlier comments about the funerals I have attended of loved ones, as well as the lives that have been destroyed IN MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY, and combine that with the common fricking sense that comes of having watched a beloved niece, strung out on drugs at my father's funeral, to make the logical assumption that "impaired judgment" is a BAD THING, and that it is pretty damn common with the vast majority of drug users I know.

Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, and perhaps you are one of them. Congratulations. You won the game of russian roulette. Unfortunately, members of my family didn't, and I don't want to watch people I love play anymore.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. You've been snookered.

The thing I can't figured out is, what you've got to gain.

[IdaBriggs]

102. Dear God in Heaven -- what do I have to GAIN???

I open up my PERSONAL FAMILY TRAGEDIES --

-- A DEAD SISTER

-- HOSPITAL VISITS DUE TO PHYSICAL ABUSE

-- EXPOSURE TO AIDS / HIV DUE TO UNPROTECTED SEX WITH INFECTED PEOPLE

-- SUICIDE ATTEMPTS

-- A BELOVED TEENAGE NIECE TURNED HEROIN ADDICTED PROSTITUTE

-- UNWANTED PREGNANCIES

-- CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR (STEALING FROM FAMILY MEMBERS)

-- POLICE INVOLVEMENT

-- AND THE FUNERAL OF AN EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD

AND YOU ASK ME WHAT I HAVE TO GAIN BY TELLING MY STORY???

Let me guess: you are one of the "lucky ones" whose life hasn't been negatively affected by the use / abuse of recreational drugs and alcohol. I don't even USE THE SHIT, and THE IDIOTS IN MY FAMILY WHO DO have made a MAJOR impact on me --

So, when people say, "Its not really that big of a deal; alcohol is worse!" I politely say, "Excuse me, but if you have an auto immune disease, there is a damn good chance your ability to fight bacterial infections is going to be compromised, and if you have an addictive personality, there's a good chance bad things are going to happen, and if you hang out with people who's judgment is "impaired," you are putting the lives of not only yourself, but the people around you at risk," which seems like COMMON FRICKING SENSE TO ME, but hey! What do I have to gain?

The fact you even ask such a dumbass question tells me a lot, and leads me to the OBVIOUS question:

ARE YOU ON DRUGS AT THE MOMENT???

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. IdaBriggs, you've posted so much disinformation...

how do you expect me to believe any of it?

[IdaBriggs]

127. That's funny -- that is EXACTLY what I think of a lot of the "its no big

deal" people! I actually took the time to read a variety of studies, and these were the conclusions I came to. At no point in time am I saying "its this way for everyone," but the folks who say "its no big deal" actually seem to believe "its that way for everyone!"

We all come to this discussion with our own baggage. For my family, we would all have been better off if the local drug dealers had killed each other off, and left my loved ones alone. Maybe for you its no worse than the occasional beer, and it has had no real impact on your life other than a "pleasant buzz." I've got a list of family tragedies that are 100% associated with illegal drug use, and a whole bunch of bad memories as a result.

I believe each person who is posting is basing their passionate belief on what they've read, and their own personal experiences. Which expert is "right?" Whose experience is "most valid?" Which team of scientists do you believe?

"Opinions are divided" -- for once, its true! And unfortunately, we don't seem to have a way of independently evaluating all of the available information, and we also have to add in the fact that drugs do different things to different people.

[Zhade]

115. Marijuana doesn't kill.

I'm sorry for your loss, though.

[Jed Dilligan]

121. I don't begrudge you your views on the effects of drugs.

The minute ONE MORE COP gets hired, or ONE MORE PERSON arrested because of your advocacy, then you become my enemy, as much as Bush or Rumsfeld or Cheney is my enemy.

[IdaBriggs]

124. Then we are enemies, because I will formally, officially advocate

for MORE POLICE OFFICERS and MORE ARRESTS for people who a) provide illegal drugs to minors, and b) commit criminal acts while strung out on any form of recreational drug, including alcohol. I also formally suggest that all parents of teenagers institute MANDATORY HOME drug testing (at a cost of under $5 per test), and SUE THE SHIT OUT OF ANY PERSON PROVIDING EITHER ILLEGAL DRUGS OR A SAFE HARBOR FOR THEIR USE.

On this issue, sir, I understand that we can give each other no quarter. Welcome to the big tent! :)

[Jed Dilligan]

126. Well I heartily wish for your failure

and will tell you that I consider any money taken from me by the government for these measures to be robbery, and you an accomplice.

It's justice that drug tragedy hit you, since you are one of its perpetrators.

[IdaBriggs]

133. Huh? I'm one of the perpetrators? Did that sentence come out wrong?

I didn't become an advocate AGAINST IT until the drug tragedies hit me and mine, so, if you want to say its my fault because I didn't care sooner, well, I guess that I can understand. Of course, I did spend a couple of years volunteering on a crisis line nearly twenty years ago, and one of the things we had to become educated about was drug abuse / addiction issues, but honestly, I didn't really advocate for much back then.....

Oh, well. After Al Gore's sister died of lung cancer, his family quit selling tobacco. Hopefully you won't ever have to learn about the stuff that my family has been dealing with over the years, and that way you can stay innocently self righteous on the topic.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but even if you are ill wishing me, I hope your lessons are a little gentler than mine on the topic -- may you never have to visit a loved one in rehab, or attend the funeral of a life cut short due to these topics. My blessings on you in answer to your curse! :)

[Jed Dilligan]

136. Believe me, I've had plenty of those rehab visits,

and a few of those funerals too.

Anyone who supports the War on Drugs is the perpetrator of these deaths. The blood of my people is on the hands of every DA that built his career on it, every cop who filled his quota with it, and every parent-advocate who invited these demons into our world because they thought someone else could solve their families' problems.

The dealer who gave your niece heroin was created by YOU--or, according to your post, the you that you've become since then. There would be no dealers if we did not fight this insane "War."

[Zhade]

144. And that's a hard truth to face.

Frankly, everyone who supports the WoD, or doesn't fight against it, is to blame.

[High Plains]

142. I haven't had to visit a loved one in rehab or at a funeral home.

I have had to visit a few in jail or prison for drug charges. There are about 500,000 of them behind bars on any given day.

Drugs can cause harm. Drug prohibition causes more harm. Better to end harmful drug prohibition and concentrate on the real harms that can accompany drug use.

[Zhade]

143. No one wants minors to have access to pot.

And anyone committing a crime should be punished, naturally.

As to the parental issue, you have no right to force parents to test their kids. You're welcome to suggest it, of course.

But try not to do so based on your incorrect views on marijuana. Learn the facts, first.

[IdaBriggs]

154. Parentally, I am not trying to FORCE people, but I am formally

suggesting it. I believe I've learned the facts. You believe you have, too, and you think drugs are no big deal (which I find an absolutely ludicrous statement). I have invited you else where to help define "which expert is to be trusted." I have read books, talked to experts in both rehab and law enforcement, and studied the topic from a personal family dynamic point of view.

I have no idea where you get your information from, but obviously, you believe you have something worthwhile to share.

At the very least I am pleased that you agree that keeping illegal drugs out of the hands of minors is a good thing. Congratulations! We have found common ground!!!

[Zhade]

156. "you think drugs are no big deal" - see? you don't know the facts.

Like, for instance, what I think. And it's obviously not a statement, since I NEVER SAID THAT.

When you assume to know what others think and put words in their mouths, why should anyone take you seriously?

[IdaBriggs]

208. Sorry Zhade, but apparently your first assumption is wrong at least

56% of the time in this "unscientific" DU poll. Only 44% agreed with an across the board attempt to keep alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, or other recreational drug out of the hands of minors, with a whole bunch of people claiming "parental privilege" when it comes to exposing their children to ANY of the above.

Common sense is not necessarily all that common, and a lot of DU'ers are apparently so committed to keeping "open minds" that their brains tend to fall out!

[Asgaya Dihi]

210. If it's the poll I'm thinking of I'd disagree

The question wasn't phrased as should we try to keep drugs out of the hands of children, it was phrased more as should we nail parents. Many are wary of the idea of zero tolerance suggestions that don't take circumstance or degree into account. I'm one of them. I'm also not one of the pot is harmless crowd, though it's not what you seem to think either. That aside even if everything you assumed was true what we're doing still doesn't work. I'll leave you a few links to think about then leave it at that.

Overview of Drug Induced Deaths
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/drug-death.htm

As you can see death rates haven't fallen through the war on drugs, they have climbed. Rather than saving lives we've lost them, rates 7 times as high as when we started on cocaine with a similar climb in heroin.

Trends in Drug Purity (1981 - 2002)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/purity.htm

Purity hasn't been hurt much on any and has improved on some such as heroin.

Trends in Drug Prices (1981 - 2002)
http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/prices.htm

Cocaine is a fraction of what it used to be in inflation adjusted dollars, so is heroin and combined with the better purity it's a bargain compared to when we started. We've lost ground.

Here's a glimpse of the cost. http://www.prisonsucks.com If you only look at one link in this message look at that one.

The growth rate of our prison system can be traced in the following document. Note that it was fairly stable with population growth from 1925 till the Controlled Substances Act passed then explosive growth that still hasn't stopped. You don't need to read the whole thing though it's worth it but the two charts about 1/4 way down are interesting.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/pdfs/pub9036.pdf

It's not a matter of drugs are ok, it's a matter of what we're doing doesn't work and we have better options. Here's a glimpse of one as noted recently in the British medical journal the Lancet, it's not the final word on the subject but it is encouraging enough to pursue.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/439/swissresults.shtml

[WindRavenX]

169. lol, you're a joke

Unbelievable.

While I am deeply sorry for your tragedies in life, the attempt to somehow pin it on the effects of a benign plant is laughable.

When you say things like this:

I also formally suggest that all parents of teenagers institute MANDATORY HOME drug testing (at a cost of under $5 per test) you look like someone who is completely, utterly, feeding the propaganda from the government. Mandatory home drug testings. Good. Fucking. Grief.

I smoke daily. Guess what? I'm a double major in biology and english and I've WORKED on the effects of canaboids on carcingenic cells with my professors-- you wouldn't believe how it stops tumor growth.

But since I'm just a big ol' dumb pot head, I'll stop.

[Klaxon]

188. I am glad you mentioned that ...

Because there was one seriously decent USG scientific study in the late 70's that showed that Cannabis actually eradicated/stunted Tumors of Lung Cancer, Melanoma, and Virus borne Lukemia...They naturally buried it but rumors of that study abounded...recently scientists in Switzerland(Or Sweden- not sure which one)Duplicated those results...

Great to see people doing that work here in the states as well.

Not to mention Dr. Russo's cannabinoid research showing its innate abilities to heal...and bolster the immune system..endocrine system(which is made up entirely of cannabinoids naturally).

The pro Drug war studies that she is hysterically quoting...(in grief and we feel for your loss) are so insanely biased and lacking in even the most fundementals of credible evidence...other then of course FEAR.

[Pastiche423]

131. IdaBriggs -

I have an auto immune disease - Lupus. If pot would lower my white soldiers, then I would smoke a hell of a lot more than just a bowl a night for pain. (The pain that comes w/paralysis.)

[dysfunctional press]

177. Pot is NOT to blame for any of this-

bad genes combined with bad parenting often has lackluster results.

[LaPera]

92. Members of your family have addictive personalities.

If it wasn't heroin it would be booze, or tobacco or food or anything else...they had huge problems, and addicts are also born...indulgent personalities, they are in the genes...Truly sorry but your family is among them...

However, hundreds of millions who smoke pot are NOT --- and that's proven every single year that goes by...

Show me ONE "unbiased" report, just one...There are NONE!!!!

[IdaBriggs]

100. Tell you what -- you tell me what constitutes "an unbiased report"

and I'll go play google for it.

You are correct; certain members of my family have addictive personalities, and for them, illegal drugs opened up a nightmare. The last study that I am recalling from memory (and I will double check the source later), said that only about 80% of people who use this stuff end up having problems, and that other factors, including age when first used, along with tendency toward "risky behavior" also played a part in how much of a disaster it ended up being.

When you say 80% of people don't have a problem, that means ONE IN FIVE DO. Those are worse odds than russian roulette.

You may be one of the lucky four out of five. Do you want to hand your fourteen year old a joint, and let them play, too?

[High Plains]

128. I'm willing to concede that marijuana can have harmful effects.

And I say this as a regular user for more than a quarter century. (For me personally, the primary harmful effect is the fear of getting arrested.)

People are defensive about pot precisely because it has been the subject of so much hysteria and so much propaganda. Our government has spent millions to finance studies designed to find out horrible things in can do (and none to see if it could prove beneficial), we arrest more than 700,000 people a year for pot, so people are not apt to suffer bullshit silently.

But yes, some people can use it to their detriment.

The real question is not how harmful is marijuana--not very--but what will we do about reducing that harm? I argue that a legal, regulated market is the answer. We spend about $20 billion a year on marijuana law enforcement; certainly we could find a fraction of that to spend to help people who develop problems with it and for good, non-propagandistic drug education.

[IdaBriggs]

155. Well, a legal regulated market is going to piss off a whole bunch of

small business men! :)

Seriously, some of your points have merit. I think we need to start another thread for some further discussion, because frankly, this one is getting too long!

[LaPera]

101. Every Pot post, you recite the same unfounded government-funded propaganda

You roll out the same story the same old extremely sad story...But it sure as fuck wasn't the pot that lowered your sis white blood cell count...Hundreds of millions of pot smokers around the globe DON"T have lower white blood cell count because they smoke pot...Who told you this shit, some doctor blaming a low count and then saying cuz your sister died because she smoked pot and you believed it? Your sister also ate food, drank fluids and took medicine...yet you believe it has to be the pot.

Amazing.


I'll repeat what I posted earlier

I know myself smoked for over thirty-five years and so many others who don't.

Your blaming the death on pot, Show me the study...it's complete bullshit...

Unforunately members of your family have addictive personalities, which would include you, I'd be very careful at what you indulge in...even too much television.

If it wasn't heroin it would be booze, or tobacco or food or anything else...they had huge problems, and addicts are also born...indulgent personalities, they are in the genes...Truly sorry but your family is among them...

However, hundreds of millions who smoke pot are NOT --- and that's proven every single year that goes by...

Show me ONE "unbiased" report, just one...There are NONE!!!!


Reports though have discounted the theory of a link to lower white blood cell counts in pot smokers. Just as they tried in vein to make a connection with pot and lung cancer for over thirty years...I've read the same bullshit about other "government" funded studies, saying pot "lowers white blood cell count" -- Just the usual government pot propaganda bullshit! They've been thrown this shit and that shit out for years and have NEVER proved any of their lies and the lies are ALWAYS dis-proven...Still gullible people keep believing and telling these lies as truth's..

[IdaBriggs]

108. I will answer the same as I answered before -- you tell me what you

consider to be an "UNBIASED" report, and I'll play some google games.

Fortunately for me, only one of the family members mentioned has a BLOOD relationship with me, which definitely helps me to avoid the addictive personality thing (although as much time as I spend on DU ... hmmmm)....but thank you for your concern, and yes I am aware of the danger.

I repeat myself AD NAUSEA: just because YOU are one of the lucky ones doesn't make something safe, and I would dearly love to read one of these "unbiased studies" that you have managed to find which says "pot is harmless" -- please provide access to it.

Every time there is a pot thread, a whole bunch of "its not that big of a deal" folks come out of the woodwork -- folks who would be screaming bloody murder if the FDA approved drugs for sale over the counter with as many known side effects as the recreational drugs provide. ("How dare they not protect us from the profit mongering drug companies? Oh, my local drug dealer wants to make some money? Well, he's a small businessman, so that's okay!")

I've been listening to the bullshit propaganda "drugs are fine, mmkay," folks for a long time, and I'm here to tell you, for my family, and a lot of people I know, THAT'S NOT THE TRUTH. I'm not saying your head is going to explode if you smoke a joint, but if you get behind the wheel of a car, and get into an accident while "altered" I want your ass in jail. (And yes, I feel the same way about drunks.) And if you decide to provide illegal drugs to minors, I want you hunted down and SUED for every cent you have.

But if you want to smoke your brains out, as long as you don't involve any of the rest of us, well, who cares? Its sort of like motorcyclists riding without helmets: we might have to pay to scrape up the street, but at least we get some organ donors from it. Unfortunately, if you are strung out on drugs, odds are pretty damn good your organs can't be used (I don't know for sure, I'm making an assumption), so the word "wasted" takes on a whole new meaning....!

[LaPera]

129. Your convoluted logic proves only one thing...

You don't have a clue...and then you say people here say "drugs are fine" no one said that.

No one believes that!

Pot is fine though, indeed...and pot is what we are discussing here...

Here's an unbiased study about pot(or biased in the reverse he wanted to find that pot indeed caused lung cancer) even heavy usage doesn't cause lung cancer http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/26/MNGAKJ2S481.DTL&hw=pot+lung&sn=001&sc=1000

I knowing hundreds of 30, 40 & 50 year pot smokers, also know that they don't have lower white blood count and are as healthy as can be...Much healthier than all the people I know who don't smoke pot!! God's wonderful healthy flowering herb.

Pot is NOT physically addicting. Unlike the pharmaceutical medicine you consume or the hard street drugs your family consumed...Pot doesn't destroy the body like alcohol does, with it terrible body destroying hangovers, Pot doesn't cause lung cancer as tobacco does, Pot doesn't affect the heart as your coffee does...

Pot has proven medicinal uses do you dispute glaucoma victims testimony too? Pot is wonderfully enlightening take my word for it and it very relaxing fun as well...

Again with hundreds of millions who smoke pot daily show me the death's or those silly low count lies you recite...You do your little Google search...I've had others like your self try and always come up empty or some easily discounted bullshit bias study...your not unique, there's always a few like you who want to believe the worst, even when millions have proven otherwise...You offer nothing except your addictive family and some quack who said it was pot causing low white blood cell count.

The government has been trying for many, many years to convince people of their bullshit studies about pot...NONE EVERY HOLD UP BECAUSE THEY CAN'T THERE ARE NO DANGERS...EXCEPT PERHAPS GETTING THE MUNCHIES AND GAINING TOO MUCH WEIGHT...and like everything else if the government repeats it enough there are always the gullible like yourself who will staunchly believe it as gospel from their own thinking.

Many people I know smoked & enjoyed for many years and sometimes decide not to to smoke for month's at a time, because we get bored with it and then go back and enjoy it later...there's no fucking physical withdraws...you don't see people lying in the gutter begging for a joint...you do with people strung out on pharmaceutical, and hard street drugs and alcohol and tobacco and even brother can you spare a dime for a cup of coffee...

Stop the lies and pontificating apply it to only your own life...

Pot is not the demon weed you want everyone to believe!!

Now, it's a warm sunny day here in beautiful, liberal Humboldt Co. the last day of Spring...And I'm heading to the beach and I'm going to have a nice fresh bowl of some fine Humbold clean organic smoke!! Cheers! :smoke:

[Greyhound]

146. Not interested enough to go dig it up again, but this study has been

universally criticized outside of the US as agenda driven bias. of course you can just take a quick look at where it comes from and decide for yourself without going to the trouble of research. The citations make for some interesting reading too.

[Oldenuff]

206. Bull---Onee!!

I can't believe there are still people who hold the opinion that Marijuana is harmful.But then again,there are those that make a ton of money in the various court mandated drug programs.Then there is law enforcement,who have a vested interest in keeping it illegal..(with some exceptions...LEAP is one example)..

I am sure that there are those in Government who are thrilled that their are people who will believe anything they say.All they have to do is fund a study,or put out a pamphlet,and there are those who will quote it as scripture.(Good Grief..there are approx 35% who support Bush)..Some people will believe anything their government tells them..

Marijuana harmful?..Total HOGWASH!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. None.

Those who say otherwise can generally be assumed to be liars.

[Occulus]

46. Yeah- read post #21

:evilgrin:

[GreenTea]

107. Read post # 101

Old Ida, repeats the same old unfounded bullshit every time there's a pot thread!

[Zhade]

116. Truthfully, I think it's the need to blame something for the death.

I can understand that.

Spreading lies that have been debunked by scientific research, though, is going too far. I feel for her loss, but pot didn't kill her relative.

[LaPera]

132. Sadly, your absolutely correct...

[sweetheart]

34. "Ganga"

Is the name of a goddess. She is the river goddess, the immaculate
immutable awakeness that is aready present in every moment.
She flows through time alight and sublime. If you smoke her
sacred herb, she may gift you with a dance.
That Marijuana is called Ganga is not an accident, nor is it
an accident that it is from the himalayan valleys.

In myth, Ganga flows down from shiva's crown, shiva being the
god of yoga, the god of illusion and awakening, or a symbol, or
a mandala in consciousness, perhaps. Shiva is pictured often covered
in ash, from a burial ground, symbolic of the final end of all
illusion, burned away in the fires of time, and in that burial
ground where the yogins used to meditate, Shiva has his drum and
his trident. Yes, trident, and this has been used as a fear
symbol for hundreds of years to scare up an image that has been
created and interpreted in western myth "shiva == satan", and
that the herb of the shiivite, is the herb of the devil.

And since the middle ages, the popes have been concerned with this
and demonizing pot and banning it, for fear of the devil... and its
absolutely shocking to discover that our current-day laws are based
on a continuation of that same very approach to religious ethnocentricity.

Ganga Ma Hari Ma Om Ma

[GreenTea]

40. If there were such a thing as a "gateway" drug (There isn't, it's complete

BULLSHIT!

Then it would be alcohol.

Name one drugy who didn't start off having a beer (or some other alcohol) before trying anything else?

But that's just it, ones choices...there's no big bogeyman gateway drug!

Certainly not marijuana, because pot is NOT physically addicting?

They've been trying to put some sort of stigma on god's gift of the green wonderful plant that has true medicinal uses and enlightening pleasures & fun!

They'll continue to lie about pot just to stigmatize it, and have been for over 70 years.

[dysfunctional press]

49. all you need to do is re-phrase the "gateway" question-

-when you point out to fundiefascistrighties who often pose the "gateway" question that alcohol/tobacco are the REAL gateway substances- they'll always point out that those substances are "legal" ones...

so- i usually ask it back to them this way-

"What is the most common illegally-used gateway drug?"

the answer would obviously be either alcohol or tobacco(not sure which), because the vast majority of "users" show up at the gateway long before they turn 18 or 21.

the answer is usually some variation on: "yeah...well..." followed by a change of subject.

[LaPera]

66. Great response, but you meant ....

"legally-used gateway drug" --- not, "illegally-used gateway drug" when asking the question?

Your approach is a wonderful way to push their bullshit(about a gateway drug), question back right in their right-wing hypocritical faces!!!

[dysfunctional press]

77. no- i meant illegally-used..

when someone under 18 uses tobacco, or someone under 21 uses alcohol- it's just as illegal as using pot.

[LaPera]

83. Got it...So do they ever respond, or do they always change the subject?

[dysfunctional press]

85. they usually change the subject...

or say it's meaningless and then change the subject.

it's not like i've talked to LOTS of them tho...i've been having less and less contact/interaction with any of...those people...

[mike_c]

50. just a reminder kids....

It always 4:20 somewhere!

[shanti]

163. sure is!

[Blue_In_AK]

56. I don't know about scientific...

But speaking from almost 40 years of experience (I'm almost 60), I can tell you that I myself am completely healthy - I never get a cold and all my health stats are perfect. I've always worked hard, been responsible. I raised three beautiful, smart, successful girls. And just last week I completed a 15-mile hike that climbed 2500 feet in seven miles, and suffered no ill effects and, in fact, I'd do it again today if I could get my husband (who smokes much less than I do) to do it. He refuses.

Personal anecdotes, to be sure, but that's all I can go on.

[High Plains]

60. Yes. There is about a 1 in 30 chance you will be arrested.

Based on an estimated 20 million who smoked last year and the more than 700,000 arrested for marijuana offenses last year.

[iconoclastNYC]

65. Maybe 1 in 30 if you are black or live in the ghetto

If you are white or live in a white neighborhood, you aren't going to get arrested.

Wanna smoke pot and not get arrested?

- Know your source (referals are good.)
- Have your source deliver it to your house (don't buy in public)
- Keep it in your house, never "carry"
- Don't smoke with the windows open

You have to be pretty unlucky, careless or black to be arrested.

[Cybergata]

80. ...or Hispanic, you'll get arrested. n/t

[elehhhhna]

95. Or a tennaged male in a fast-moving car. duh.

[Ariana Celeste]

96. And long haired males

My SO gets stopped when he's walking home from work every couple of months it seems, because he "fits the description". Of course this is a 90 some odd percent white town so the cops are hard pressed to find a minority.

[High Plains]

130. You are correct, sir. And that helps explain why pot is still illegal.

All those nice, white, middle-class users don't really have to worry. Just the kids and minorities.

The drug war is racist. If not in its intent, in its application. And if we're still applying racist policies after several decades, then I guess it's intentional.

[Hippo_Tron]

195. Crack has a higher mandatory minimum than Cocaine

Of course policy makers would never admit this is because black people do crack and white people do cocaine. It's amazing the things you learn watching The West Wing.

[mike_c]

119. not where I live....

Thankfully, that likelihood of being arrested isn't evenly distributed....

[serryjw]

147. Where does the 20 million

estimate come from? Anyone know how many cigarette smokers we have in US?

[High Plains]

179. According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health,

the federal government's annual survey, 14.6 million people reported using marijuana in the last month and 25.5 million reported using in the last year in 2004.

http://oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k4NSDUH/2k4results/2k4results.htm#ch2

[serryjw]

204. Thanks....good info

n/t

[anarch]

61. I know for a fact that marijuana is a gateway drug

to cheetos.

[Cybergata]

81. maybe for you, but...

yuck! Orange cardboard worms! Ick! Maybe more of a gateway drug to potato chips, or better still, blue corn chile tortilla chips! <hee hee> I had a cat that loved blue corn chile chips. I wonder if catnip was a gateway drug to them as well! :evilgrin:

[tridim]

199. Or best yet..

Netsle Caramel Drumsticks. Trust me! :P

[Cybergata]

217. Ohhhhh! Yummie, Yummie

I'm getting flashback munchies! :hippie:

[paparush]

63. I had years of education while on marijuana.. ; -)

[iconoclastNYC]

68. Pot Myths Debunked

As marijuana arrests steadily increase, recent studies have refuted two concerns (or is myth the proper term?) that are central motivations for American drug policy: 1) Marijuana is a gateway drug and 2) Medical marijuana would be abused by adolescents. A Project RAND study of data from the US National Household Survey on Drug Abuse shows that few marijuana users ever graduate to harder drugs. The Canadian Senate and US National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine have also issued reports criticizing this theory that guides so much of our nation’s drug policy. NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) Foundation Executive Allen St. Pierre commented, “Statistically, for every 104 Americans who have tried marijuana, there is only one regular user of cocaine and less than one user of heroin. For the overwhelming majority of marijuana smokers, pot is clearly a ‘terminus’ rather than a gateway.”

In addition, the General Accounting Office of Congress has reported that the legalization of the use and possession of medical marijuana (eight states have enacted medical marijuana legalization laws since 1996) has not led to widespread abuse as expected by critics. Most patients qualified to use medical marijuana suffer from chronic pain and/or multiple sclerosis, and only one state, Alaska, reported registering a medical marijuana patient under the age of 18. Authors of the report determined, “None of the federal officials we spoke with provided information to support a statement that abuse of medical marijuana laws was routinely occurring in any of the states, including California.”

http://www.weeklydig.com/index.cfm/issueID/f3fcfb6a-5c8c-4603-b8bb-25f2c79bdd1c/fuseaction/Article.view/issueID/f3fcfb6a-5c8c-4603-b8bb-25f2c79bdd1c/articleID/703c34b6-b9a9-4e25-ac68-d39a3a1cfc27/nodeID/4b1339d1-be3a-44a2-be8b-1484963a003a

[Zhade]

120. Thank you for some actual FACTS to counter the lies above.

I doubt the poster above is knowingly pushing lies, but all the same, it's nice to have facts to counter the bullshit.

[tridim]

200. It was certainly a terminus for me

I never went past LSD, and only did that about half a dozen times.

I'm living proof that Cannabis isn't a gateway drug.

[Ariana Celeste]

90. A thought on the "gateway drug" thing.

I know/ have known many people who use/ have used harder drugs. Most of them smoked pot, given- but they didn't do other drugs because of marijuana- there was no "marijuana is good so I bet this is better" thinking involved. It wasn't "Oh marijuana is totally safe so I bet other drugs are." It's simply because they prefer a different kind of buzz. Some people like to chill, some people like to speed up (ADHD meds, ephedrine, meth, etc.). Some people just like a happy buzz (Opium, etc.). Some people like all of their perceptions to change (acid, peyote, etc.).

These days many kids are getting their hands on other drugs before they can find pot. Personally, I was already drinking, smoking cigarettes, and taking my buddy's ADHD meds before I discovered marijuana.

Also, DARE actually made my friends and I interested in trying different substances. Not a hit of pot.

[DemInDistress]

98. 43 years of pot smoking and the only detrimental effect I had was

getting "BUSTED" three times in my life. It's funny, their are about 9 people who can gain "legal weed" for their glaucoma and over 100,000 federally funded methadone users. WHY?
Legal weed is a major threat to big corporations just ask Hearst,DuPont,JP Morgan. For they are the folks who took Anslinger aside in 1937 to revoke the Marijuana Tax Stamp and outlaw HEMP to this very day.
1 acre of Hemp= 2-4 acres of trees and better quality paper products.
1 acre of Hemp= 2-4 acres of cotton a more durable fabric to boot.
Hemp oil Hemp products are "renewable"
Hemp is environmentally friendly.

There are 1,000 reasons (all good) for legalizing Hemp but big corporations and law enforcement wont permit none of that.

If a political candidate were to propose legalizing Hemp I'd bet he would win on that issue.

BTW some very famous Americans enjoyed Hemp (marijuana)
George Washington
A. Hamilton
Abe Lincoln
many many more...

[kittenpants]

105. and Queen Victoria's doctor prescribed pot for her PMS...

I wouldn't mind that.

[Ariana Celeste]

111. It works!

:hi:

[serryjw]

139. Thanks for info

I am researching on google.

We are almost decriminalized already for private use of 1 oz is a $100 fine!
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=&Group_ID=4526

[CanSocDem]

172. "If a...

... political candidate were to propose legalizing Hemp I'd bet he would win on that issue."

self-delete for making the unforgivable mistake of confusing "hemp" with 'pot'.
.
.
.

[devilgrrl]

99. No, there isn't any proof

eom

[nonconformist]

106. The Gateway Drug thing is bullshit.

If you are inclined to use hard drugs like, say, heroin, you are not going to have ANY qualms about using weed. Or alcohol, for that matter.

[Montagnard]

138. Some call it Tamjee,

Some call it the Weed,
Some call it Marijuana,
Some of them call it Ganja,
Never mind,Got to

Legalize it don`t Criticize it,
Legalize it
yea-ah-yea-ah,
and I will Adverticze it

[killbotfactory]

160. No.

It's illegal and part of the drug war because:
1. It's hard to market, since it can be easily grown (Only marijuana derivitives are ever approved medically, because that's the only way companies can make a profit off of them.)
2. Nixon wanted to crack down on the hippies, because he couldn't arrest them for long hair, but he could for smoking pot (seriously.)
3. A bunch of self-serving racist and corporate propaganda leading to it getting banned in the early 19th century.
4. The drug laws give obscene amounts of power to the police, and they don't want to lose it.

[Jed Dilligan]

171. Ding ding ding we have a winner

Except for one thing--19th should be 20th century.

I like number four especially, it's not brought up enough.

[ismnotwasm]

170. Hooboy.

It gave me severe bronchitis. I've seen people zone out on munchies and video games or movies for hours, sometimes years, at a time. Totally wasted, all the time.
One thing I've never figured out on these threads is WHO are you all smoking with? The chronic users I used to know--and that was EVERYBODY at one point in my life for almost 20 years, nearly always had a cough, whether they smoked cigarettes or not, and unless naturally energetic had the personality of a chair when constantly stoned, because we all were usually smoking for several hours at a time. Maybe it was marijuana abuse? I don't know maybe the people I hung around had the tendency to overuse substances for the high. (Actually I know they did, but that's another story.) And hell yeah I knew people who drove and got in accident while stoned, mostly because of not paying attention to things like stop signs.

On the other hand, when my world expanded a bit, I began to know college graduates with advanced degrees who smoked their way through college, and still use it. Successful, well adjusted business people as well. Artists, and musicians, not the fucked up kind, but the ones who really dug what they did, and appreciated it.
Marijuana itself seems to be fairly benign in many cases but my experience tells me it's certainly not for everybody.

So what is the answer? To me it's an individual thing. I've seen the studies on both "sides", and it's a logical answer. I can't smoke. Some people can. My own experience tells me that it's an addictive, damaging substance for some, good times for others.
As a nurse, I will never believe that any chemical substance ingested for whatever reason is totally harmless. Or always helpful.

BUT...I completely support marijuana legalization. Both for personal use and medicinal. I understand and have read enough to know that there are unexplored uses medically, and the fact that someone in chronic pain, or on chemo, or like my husband has a disease like Multiple Sclerosis, would go to JAIL if found using a substance that can help with nausea, pain, muscle spasms pisses me off.

Marijuana laws are just a way to create prison fodder. They are unjust, unwise and do nothing other than fill prisons and jails. Some jails are so full depending on local laws they'll let out a burglary charge before a marijuana drug charge. Stupidity itself.

[malachibk]

173. Actually there is -- and this is coming from a pothead!

Just back from work, so don't have time to pull all the links, but pot has been found to increase the odds of schizophrenia by roughly 2.5. I'm a psychiatric epidemiologist by training so I promise this is a fact. If you're interested in reading articles email me and I'll find them for you; there are quite a few as this finding has been replicaed quite often.

[Bretttido]

174. Marijuana screwed up my life

Sorry to break up the party, but my personal experience with marijuana was horrible and it seems to have chronically affected me. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem whatsoever with my friends smoking up around me. I wish I was "normal" and could join in.

I started smoking marijuana when I was about 16 and really enjoyed it the way most people do. About the 20-30th time I had it though (when I was 17), I had what some would call a "bad high".... a really really really bad high. I don't believe anything else was mixed in with the weed though, because everyone that had it with me that night was fine. I won't go into the specific details but for the next 6 months, I would constantly have flashbacks while sitting in class and began living in fear of the flashbacks, because each time I had them, I didn't realize they were flashbacks and thought I was back in bad-high land. Eventually they stopped and all was well.

Fast forward 3 years later in college. I decided it had been a long enough time so I decided to try it again. That was a bad idea though. I experienced a near-identical bad high to the one 3 years earlier. The following night I became horribly depressed, to the point that I could not stop crying. Then the next night, I returned to a horribly depressed state, unable to do anything but cry for seemingly no reason. It continued every night for over a month till I finally got help after I tried to commit suicide.

I was prescribed 20mg of paxil and that helped my mental state return to normal. I had to up the dosage to 30mg and 40mg over a period of 2 years and have had to stay at the 40mg ever since. Any attempt to ween off the medication has been hopeless, and it looks like I'll have to use it as a crutch for the rest of my life.

As a post-note, I was taking isotretinoin (Accutane) when I was 17 and had the first "bad high." I've never known if this was related at all...

[Warren DeMontague]

175. I do know accutane has messed with some folks' heads pretty seriously.

Anyway, whatever the story, it sounds like pot isn't for you. Hey- don't feel bad about not being able to smoke it; I almost killed myself with booze, and now I don't do anything stronger than caffeine. I've also found that I'm more than capable of having a damn fine time without any mind-altering substances, and not in a "I'm only saying that because I have to" sense.

I still think it's ludicrous and obscene that we wage "war" on certain chemicals, particularly pot, however. Pot should be legal. No question.

[Bretttido]

176. I agree completely, it should be legal

But with all substances, it can mess some people up. I just hope the risks can be defined so that others don't have to go through what I have.

[Zhade]

183. That sucks. But there's no causation proven here, just correlation.

Sorry you had such a bad experience. Seriously doubt it was the weed. Glad you're doing better, though!

[nashville_brook]

186. pot did not cause your depression/anxiety

[CabalPowered]

187. I took Acutane for about almost a month endured vivid

nightmares every night. I wasn't smoking at the time but there's no doubt that Acuatane has some psychoactive effect.

[SPKrazy]

189. Probably The Pot Had Little To Do With It

although, I wouldn't recommend trying it again to see

I had problems with pot, mainly that it made me want to drink booze, and I had a problem with booze.

but I think all drugs should be legalized because the war on drugs is a failure and a waste of tax dollars, and the laws that have been enacted, like seizing a drug users assets (or just someone suspected of it) has become legal. That isn't right.
If someone smokes pot, they shouldn't have to worry about the government busting the door down and confiscating their vehicle(s) etc.

Legalize, regulate, tax, treatment on demand paid for. All drugs legal NOW!

[sweetheart]

192. Grow up and be responsible

YOU made a decision to take marijuana at a young age, when you've been advised by almost everyfuckingbody
that its not that healthy for developing minds. The mind is a temple a very sacred and complex thing, and
our culture just screws with it, putting in drugs after drugs as if one will fix another.

Sometimes weed doesn't work with your chemistry.

Blame cannabis, or blame yourself for not being careful with your drugs taking.

In an unregulated market they say caveat emptor (means "buyer beware"). You took an unknown
substance, of unknown chemicals, in an unknown dosage, under complex other developmental conditions
involving teenager hormones and conditions... and you haven't a clue whether it was the drug or not.
This immediate conventient excuse "the marijuana" did it to me, relieves you of any responsibility, and
you are enslaved, not free; enslaved to being not responsible for your own behaviour and your own life.

Watch out for all those evil things out there, they can hurt you. Rattle snakes bite, and mushrooms can
kill you if you eat the wrong ones. Those evil rattle snakes, we need a law to exterminate them.

Cannabis is a sacred plant, to be respected... its not a party drug, its not beer. Those OTHER drugs
you're taking now are much spookier and i can't believe you diss weed and then take those biochemical frazzlers.
"caveat emptor" - the doctors sold you some more drugs, and they are legal drugs dealers, but their
drugs are MORE dangerous, and they are even less scrupulous.

[Bretttido]

212. I'm grown up and responsible, now what?

Yeah, I was young and smoked. If you read my story as me blaming the marijuana and avoiding all personal responsibility, you're wrong. I stated clearly, I CHOSE to have marijuana, and I CHOSE to have it again (a bad IDEA.) I'm not looking far and wide for a scapegoat. Some people may wish to look the other way, but it is completely obvious in both situations that marijuana had a direct effect on the current state of my body and mind. I didn't say marijuana was evil and needed to be exterminated, I said exactly what happened to me in hopes that someone with a similar situation does not repeat it.

[sweetheart]

216. what marijuana did you take?

Was it an indica or sattiva type of cannabis? Did it have hairs of particular
colour on the buds? Was it hydroponics or soil grown? Did it come from an organic
garden, or was it smuggled in from somewhere in a for-profit deal? This single
drug, "marijuana" has as many varieties as wine.

So your comment reads, I had a bad experience with Barolo, therefore "wine"
caused the effects i experienced. By having an illegal, unregulated market,
you are picking a wine bottle blindly, hoping its a good wine.

Just if you are a scientist of any sort, then you *know* that you have no idea what
you smoked except that it may have looked visually like dried green stuff. I've
smoked some crap weeds in my day that gave me headaches and made me sick, but i've
been aways careful to sample a new weed lightly to test it.

If it were legal, like wine, and you wanted to taste wine, you might talk to a
somallier (wine expert), and this person might listen to your preferences and find
you just the right bud, at just the proper dosage. But as its illegal we all pay,
as people who've had bad experiences think they know what marijuana is, and the
fools who make the laws take that as evidence that they are right in limiting
our freedoms for the persons amongst us who have been unlucky.

Good luck to you, sorry if i was harsh.

[Klaxon]

202. Let me guess...

The bad high was convincing you that you had seen the exact place you were in while you were there and you remembered living it before...???

[Bretttido]

213. Not quite

If you've ever listened to the beginning of the Tool song: Third Eye, it's as similar as I'm able to describe.

"See, I think drugs have done some good things for us, I really
do, and if you don't believe drugs have done good things for us,
do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all your albums, all
your tapes, and all your CDs and burn 'em. Cause you know what?
The musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced
your lives throughout the years? Rrrrreal fuckin' high on
drugs."

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely
energy condensed into a slow vibration, that we are all one
consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively, there's no such
thing as death, life is only a dream, in which is an imagination
of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, is
what it is, okay? Keep that in mind at all times. Thank
you."

[Klaxon]

218. Down the rabbit hole...

I definitely recognize one of my hero's that quote is from Bill Hicks who had a major influence on Tool routine. Not only am I very familiar with it...but I wholeheartedly agree with it.

And I think what I said reflects that quite well...

You don't need an SSRI because you were shown a piece of "IT". I strongly encourage for you to ween yourself off of those ASAP...you will be ok.

You were blessed...

I definitely urge for you to pick up Bill Hicks comedy routines, Many of which have been re-released recently.

http://www.billhicks.com/

[Bretttido]

219. Believe me I've tried

many times to ween myself off of the SSRIs. I got myself into the greatest shape of my life over the past year and a half, working out and doing aerobic activities 6-7 days/week. I bike to work, get plenty of sun for Vitamin D, eat a well-balanced diet... everything under the sun that doctors have recommended. After getting into this great shape, my latest attempt to step down the SSRIs to only 20mg over a period of 2 months ended unsuccessfully. When it gets to the point that I literally cannot function at work, stop eating, and suicidal thoughts creep through, I'm left with little choice. I will continue my exercise and hopefully beat this someday, but I believe my mind's chemical balance has been permanently changed.

Thank you for the encouragement though, I don't take it lightly.

[Klaxon]

222. You are a female correct?

No matter... St Johnswort has been pretty successfull in my wifes post pardum depression...But it works on men as well... I do know you really have to wean off of them...They are horrible drugs. IMO

[IdaBriggs]

209. I'm sorry you went through that.

:hug:

And I'm sorry that some of the responses I'm reading to your story aren't as supportive as you deserve. :hug:

Unfortunately, there are some folks with an agenda on this thread, and any evidence counter to their viewpoint is going to be attacked. Please don't take it personally, because they are not attacking YOU as a person -- in this case, they are attacking the message they don't like you relaying.

You probably already knew that, but I thought it was something that should be said anyway.

And again, I'm sorry you went through such a horrible time. It sounds like you have handled the situation since with grace and courage. Welcome to DU! :hug:

[Bretttido]

214. Thank You

:hug:

[genieroze]

178. No

[tuvor]

184. Tobacco would be a lot less harmful without the hundreds of chems, too.

My hunch is that smoking tobacco isn't what harms a person quite so much as constantly inhaling burning...

* Acetanisole
* Acetic Acid
* Acetoin
* Acetophenone
* 6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
* 2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
* 2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
* Acetylpyrazine
* 2-Acetylpyridine
* 3-Acetylpyridine
* 2-Acetylthiazole
* Aconitic Acid
* dl-Alanine
* Alfalfa Extract
* Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
* Allyl Hexanoate
* Allyl Ionone
* Almond Bitter Oil
* Ambergris Tincture
* Ammonia
* Ammonium Bicarbonate
* Ammonium Hydroxide
* Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
* Ammonium Sulfide
* Amyl Alcohol
* Amyl Butyrate
* Amyl Formate
* Amyl Octanoate
* alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
* Amyris Oil
* trans-Anethole
* Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
* Anise
* Anise Star, Extract and Oils
* Anisyl Acetate
* Anisyl Alcohol
* Anisyl Formate
* Anisyl Phenylacetate
* Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
* Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
* 1-Arginine
* Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
* Ascorbic Acid
* 1-Asparagine Monohydrate
* 1-Aspartic Acid
* Balsam Peru and Oil
* Basil Oil
* Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
* Beeswax White
* Beet Juice Concentrate
* Benzaldehyde
* Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
* Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
* Benzoin Resin
* Benzophenone
* Benzyl Alcohol
* Benzyl Benzoate
* Benzyl Butyrate
* Benzyl Cinnamate
* Benzyl Propionate
* Benzyl Salicylate
* Bergamot Oil
* Bisabolene
* Black Currant Buds Absolute
* Borneol
* Bornyl Acetate
* Buchu Leaf Oil
* 1,3-Butanediol
* 2,3-Butanedione
* 1-Butanol
* 2-Butanone
* 4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
* Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
* Butyl Acetate
* Butyl Butyrate
* Butyl Butyryl Lactate
* Butyl Isovalerate
* Butyl Phenylacetate
* Butyl Undecylenate
* 3-Butylidenephthalide
* Butyric Acid]
* Cadinene
* Caffeine
* Calcium Carbonate
* Camphene
* Cananga Oil
* Capsicum Oleoresin
* Caramel Color
* Caraway Oil
* Carbon Dioxide
* Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
* Carob Bean and Extract
* beta-Carotene
* Carrot Oil
* Carvacrol
* 4-Carvomenthenol
* 1-Carvone
* beta-Caryophyllene
* beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
* Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
* Cassia Bark Oil
* Cassie Absolute and Oil
* Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
* Cedar Leaf Oil
* Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
* Cedrol
* Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
* Cellulose Fiber
* Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
* Chicory Extract
* Chocolate
* Cinnamaldehyde
* Cinnamic Acid
* Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
* Cinnamyl Acetate
* Cinnamyl Alcohol
* Cinnamyl Cinnamate
* Cinnamyl Isovalerate
* Cinnamyl Propionate
* Citral
* Citric Acid
* Citronella Oil
* dl-Citronellol
* Citronellyl Butyrate
* itronellyl Isobutyrate
* Civet Absolute
* Clary Oil
* Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
* Cocoa
* Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
* Coconut Oil
* Coffee
* Cognac White and Green Oil
* Copaiba Oil
* Coriander Extract and Oil
* Corn Oil
* Corn Silk
* Costus Root Oil
* Cubeb Oil
* Cuminaldehyde
* para-Cymene
* 1-Cysteine
* Dandelion Root Solid Extract
* Davana Oil
* 2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
* delta-Decalactone
* gamma-Decalactone
* Decanal
* Decanoic Acid
* 1-Decanol
* 2-Decenal
* Dehydromenthofurolactone
* Diethyl Malonate
* Diethyl Sebacate
* 2,3-Diethylpyrazine
* Dihydro Anethole
* 5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
* Dill Seed Oil and Extract
* meta-Dimethoxybenzene
* para-Dimethoxybenzene
* 2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
* Dimethyl Succinate
* 3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
* 3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
* 3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
* 4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
* 6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
* 3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
* 2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
* alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
* alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
* alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
* 2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
* 2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
* 2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
* Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
* delta-Dodecalactone
* gamma-Dodecalactone
* para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
* Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
* Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
* Ethyl Acetate
* Ethyl Acetoacetate
* Ethyl Alcohol
* Ethyl Benzoate
* Ethyl Butyrate
* Ethyl Cinnamate
* Ethyl Decanoate
* Ethyl Fenchol
* Ethyl Furoate
* Ethyl Heptanoate
* Ethyl Hexanoate
* Ethyl Isovalerate
* Ethyl Lactate
* Ethyl Laurate
* Ethyl Levulinate
* Ethyl Maltol
* Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
* Ethyl Myristate
* Ethyl Nonanoate
* Ethyl Octadecanoate
* Ethyl Octanoate
* Ethyl Oleate
* Ethyl Palmitate
* Ethyl Phenylacetate
* Ethyl Propionate
* Ethyl Salicylate
* Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
* Ethyl Valerate
* Ethyl Vanillin
* 2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
* 2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
* 2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
* 5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
* 2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
* 4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
* 4-Ethylguaiacol
* para-Ethylphenol
* 3-Ethylpyridine
* Eucalyptol
* Farnesol
* D-Fenchone
* Fennel Sweet Oil
* Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute
* Fig Juice Concentrate
* Food Starch Modified
* Furfuryl Mercaptan
* 4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One
* Galbanum Oil
* Genet Absolute
* Gentian Root Extract
* Geraniol
* Geranium Rose Oil
* Geranyl Acetate
* Geranyl Butyrate
* Geranyl Formate
* Geranyl Isovalerate
* Geranyl Phenylacetate
* Ginger Oil and Oleoresin
* 1-Glutamic Acid
* 1-Glutamine
* Glycerol
* Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated
* Grape Juice Concentrate
* Guaiac Wood Oil
* Guaiacol
* Guar Gum
* 2,4-Heptadienal
* gamma-Heptalactone
* Heptanoic Acid
* 2-Heptanone
* 3-Hepten-2-One
* 2-Hepten-4-One
* 4-Heptenal
* trans -2-Heptenal
* Heptyl Acetate
* omega-6-Hexadecenlactone
* gamma-Hexalactone
* Hexanal
* Hexanoic Acid
* 2-Hexen-1-Ol
* 3-Hexen-1-Ol
* cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate
* 2-Hexenal
* 3-Hexenoic Acid
* trans-2-Hexenoic Acid
* cis-3-Hexenyl Formate
* Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate
* Hexyl Acetate
* Hexyl Alcohol
* Hexyl Phenylacetate
* 1-Histidine
* Honey
* Hops Oil
* Hydrolyzed Milk Solids
* Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins
* 5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta- Lactone
* 4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone
* 2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
* 4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone
* 2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde
* 4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone
* Hydroxycitronellal
* 6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane
* 4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
* Hyssop Oil
* Immortelle Absolute and Extract
* alpha-Ionone
* beta-Ionone
* alpha-Irone
* Isoamyl Acetate
* Isoamyl Benzoate
* Isoamyl Butyrate
* Isoamyl Cinnamate
* Isoamyl Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate
* Isoamyl Isovalerate
* Isoamyl Octanoate
* Isoamyl Phenylacetate
* Isobornyl Acetate
* Isobutyl Acetate
* Isobutyl Alcohol
* Isobutyl Cinnamate
* Isobutyl Phenylacetate
* Isobutyl Salicylate
* 2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine
* alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol
* Isobutyraldehyde
* Isobutyric Acid
* d,l-Isoleucine
* alpha-Isomethylionone
* 2-Isopropylphenol
* Isovaleric Acid
* Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil
* Kola Nut Extract
* Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin
* Lactic Acid
* Lauric Acid
* Lauric Aldehyde
* Lavandin Oil
* Lavender Oil
* Lemon Oil and Extract
* Lemongrass Oil
* 1-Leucine
* Levulinic Acid
* Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract and Powder
* Lime Oil
* Linalool
* Linalool Oxide
* Linalyl Acetate
* Linden Flowers
* Lovage Oil And Extract
* 1-Lysine]
* Mace Powder, Extract and Oil
* Magnesium Carbonate
* Malic Acid
* Malt and Malt Extract
* Maltodextrin
* Maltol
* Maltyl Isobutyrate
* Mandarin Oil
* Maple Syrup and Concentrate
* Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil
* para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One
* Menthol
* Menthone
* Menthyl Acetate
* dl-Methionine
* Methoprene
* 2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol
* 2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol
* para-Methoxybenzaldehyde
* 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One
* 4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
* 1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone
* Methoxypyrazine
* Methyl 2-Furoate
* Methyl 2-Octynoate
* Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone
* Methyl Anisate
* Methyl Anthranilate
* Methyl Benzoate
* Methyl Cinnamate
* Methyl Dihydrojasmonate
* Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated
* Methyl Isovalerate
* Methyl Linoleate (48%)
* Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture
* Methyl Naphthyl Ketone
* Methyl Nicotinate
* Methyl Phenylacetate
* Methyl Salicylate
* Methyl Sulfide
* 3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone
* 4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone
* 5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal
* 5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarboxaldehyde
* 6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One
* 2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde
* 5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One
* 1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene
* 4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One
* 2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde
* 6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One
* 4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol
* 4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole
* Methyl-alpha-Ionone
* Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid
* 4-Methylacetophenone
* para-Methylanisole
* alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate
* alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol
* 2-Methylbutyraldehyde
* 3-Methylbutyraldehyde
* 2-Methylbutyric Acid
* alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde
* Methylcyclopentenolone
* 2-Methylheptanoic Acid
* 2-Methylhexanoic Acid
* 3-Methylpentanoic Acid
* 4-Methylpentanoic Acid
* 2-Methylpyrazine
* 5-Methylquinoxaline
* 2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One
* (Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)
* 3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde
* Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate
* 2-Methylvaleric Acid
* Mimosa Absolute and Extract
* Molasses Extract and Tincture
* Mountain Maple Solid Extract
* Mullein Flowers
* Myristaldehyde
* Myristic Acid
* Myrrh Oil
* beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether
* Nerol
* Neroli Bigarde Oil
* Nerolidol
* Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal
* 2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol
* gamma-Nonalactone
* Nonanal
* Nonanoic Acid
* Nonanone
* trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol
* 2-Nonenal
* Nonyl Acetate
* Nutmeg Powder and Oil
* Oak Chips Extract and Oil
* Oak Moss Absolute
* 9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%) And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)
* delta-Octalactone
* gamma-Octalactone
* Octanal
* Octanoic Acid
* 1-Octanol
* 2-Octanone
* 3-Octen-2-One
* 1-Octen-3-Ol
* 1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate
* 2-Octenal
* Octyl Isobutyrate
* Oleic Acid
* Olibanum Oil
* Opoponax Oil And Gum
* Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute
* Orange Oil and Extract
* Origanum Oil
* Orris Concrete Oil and Root Extract
* Palmarosa Oil
* Palmitic Acid
* Parsley Seed Oil
* Patchouli Oil
* omega-Pentadecalactone
* 2,3-Pentanedione
* 2-Pentanone
* 4-Pentenoic Acid
* 2-Pentylpyridine
* Pepper Oil, Black And White
* Peppermint Oil
* Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil
* Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil
* alpha-Phellandrene
* 2-Phenenthyl Acetate
* Phenenthyl Alcohol
* Phenethyl Butyrate
* Phenethyl Cinnamate
* Phenethyl Isobutyrate
* Phenethyl Isovalerate
* Phenethyl Phenylacetate
* Phenethyl Salicylate
* 1-Phenyl-1-Propanol
* 3-Phenyl-1-Propanol
* 2-Phenyl-2-Butenal
* 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol
* 4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One
* Phenylacetaldehyde
* Phenylacetic Acid
* 1-Phenylalanine
* 3-Phenylpropionaldehyde
* 3-Phenylpropionic Acid
* 3-Phenylpropyl Acetate
* 3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate
* 2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran
* Phosphoric Acid
* Pimenta Leaf Oil
* Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch
* Pineapple Juice Concentrate
* alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene
* D-Piperitone
* Piperonal
* Pipsissewa Leaf Extract
* Plum Juice
* Potassium Sorbate
* 1-Proline
* Propenylguaethol
* Propionic Acid
* Propyl Acetate
* Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate
* Propylene Glycol
* 3-Propylidenephthalide
* Prune Juice and Concentrate
* Pyridine
* Pyroligneous Acid And Extract
* Pyrrole
* Pyruvic Acid
* Raisin Juice Concentrate
* Rhodinol
* Rose Absolute and Oil
* Rosemary Oil
* Rum
* Rum Ether
* Rye Extract
* Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage Oleoresin
* Salicylaldehyde
* Sandalwood Oil, Yellow
* Sclareolide
* Skatole
* Smoke Flavor
* Snakeroot Oil
* Sodium Acetate
* Sodium Benzoate
* Sodium Bicarbonate
* Sodium Carbonate
* Sodium Chloride
* Sodium Citrate
* Sodium Hydroxide
* Solanone
* Spearmint Oil
* Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil
* Sucrose Octaacetate
* Sugar Alcohols
* Sugars
* Tagetes Oil
* Tannic Acid
* Tartaric Acid
* Tea Leaf and Absolute
* alpha-Terpineol
* Terpinolene
* Terpinyl Acetate
* 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline
* 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane
* 2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone
* 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine
* Thiamine Hydrochloride
* Thiazole
* 1-Threonine
* Thyme Oil, White and Red
* Thymol
* Tobacco Extracts
* Tochopherols (mixed)
* Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract
* Tolualdehydes
* para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate
* para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde
* para-Tolyl Acetate
* para-Tolyl Isobutyrate
* para-Tolyl Phenylacetate
* Triacetin
* 2-Tridecanone
* 2-Tridecenal
* Triethyl Citrate
* 3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol
* para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol
* 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One
* 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione
* 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan
* 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
* 2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone
* 2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine
* 1-Tyrosine
* delta-Undercalactone
* gamma-Undecalactone
* Undecanal
* 2-Undecanone, 1
* 0-Undecenal
* Urea
* Valencene
* Valeraldehyde
* Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder
* Valeric Acid
* gamma-Valerolactone
* Valine
* Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin
* Vanillin
* Veratraldehyde
* Vetiver Oil
* Vinegar
* Violet Leaf Absolute
* Walnut Hull Extract
* Water
* Wheat Extract And Flour
* Wild Cherry Bark Extract
* Wine and Wine Sherry
* Xanthan Gum
* 3,4-Xylenol
* Yeast

http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm

[SPKrazy]

190. Tobacco Is The Only Drug That Is Nearly Consistently Common With Drug Use

tobacco use is really the only proven Gateway drug

Marijuana? Only in that it puts one possibly in contact with people who can get harder stuff whereas they might not have been in contact with them before.

But chemically, there is no causality between pot and other drug use

chemically there is not a link between tobacco either, it is just a social stat that I read a long while back. (No I don't have a link, but think about it)

[HughBeaumont]

193. Cannabis should be LEGAL.

Hell, you're going to make a purposeless shit-smelling, shit-tasting, highly-addictive plant that's responsible for tobacco baron profit at the price of hundreds of thousands of deaths a year (including my grandmother's, Aunt's and future MIL) legal, I see no problem at all legalizing something that's so low on the addiction scale in comparison. Not to mention it's many uses in industry, fuel, clothing, food and technology could offset hundreds of years of deforestation and inject some new life in an economy starving for innovation.

Of course, I'm also not jumping on the "100% harmless" bandwagon either; come on, no drug is. Pretty much every one of my potsmoking friends aren't the invincible, bulletproof, non-smoker-lunged superhumans that are described in this thread. Via long-term use, they have coughs, slurred speech, frequent bouts of ennui, pneumonia, bronchitis and depression. Yet, LSD is pretty much the worst illegal drug that any of them ever wound up doing. None of them became coke or meth addicts because they were looking for something beyond a pot buzz. Also, it's not like they ever "fiended" for it. They didn't have marijuana for a night, oh well. It isn't like cancerettes, where you need one every 30 to 60 minutes.

The whole "gateway drug" shit is a buncha crapola. If someone's going to do heroin, coke or meth, it's going to happen with or without marijuana. There are so many factors in determining if a person has addictive tendencies that simply blaming MJ even as a minor facet is silly.

That being said, I don't want my kid to ever smoke ANYthing. He can't, really. He may be a candidate for Marfan's syndrome, which is characterized by leakage of the mitral or aortic valves that control the flow of blood through the heart. He pretty much has to avoid anything that can potentially worsen this condition.

[noshenanigans]

197. One more thing..

for those getting into tizzys because of emphasyma or lung cance (even though later studies say there may not be any connection at all), there are other ways to use pot other than smoking. A good vaporizoe will let you simply take in the THC instead of any smoke.

[BillORightsMan]

211. I'm all for a drug-free America

Now where's my free drugs?:crazy:
Haha! Peter Tosh said it best when he said...

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Some call it tampee
Some call it the weed
Some call it Marijuana
Some of them call it Ganja

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Singer smoke it
And players of instruments too
Legalize it, yeah, yeah
That's the best thing you can do
Doctors smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
Even the lawyers too

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

It's good for the flu
It's good for asthma
Good for tuberculosis
Even umara composis

Legalize it - don't criticize it
Legalize it and i will advertise it

Bird eat it
And they leave it
Fowls eat it
Goats love to play with it

[Rex]

221. Yes, you can get emphysema from smoking pot.

Pot has a lot more tar then cigarettes (of course cigarettes have 600 chemicals on any given day; only one or two good for you). A large amount of inorganic matter lodges itself in the lungs over the years and can lead to cancer and breathing problems. It really all depends on two things; can you 'handle' the drug and do you agree to pay the consequences down the road, provided we make it that far.