Democrats are in Danger of Annihilation

Whenever they call ordinary republicans "pugs" or "repukes"/"repugs"

Whenever they rant and rave against someone for being moderate or indepenent or centrist

Whenever they throw around words like "fascist" as if such words were games

Whenever they oversimplify and create a straw-man to attack their opponents

Whenever they push controversial issues and loose sight of bigger problems they deal with

Whenever rhetoric is more important than plain talk and solving real problems

Whenever they talk down to ordinary people or people who disagree

Whenever they have a patronizing attitude toward 'joe six pack'

Whenever they don't even care about this stuff

...doesn't even figure into your scenario for annihilation?





How do you explain the "Republicans" doing the exact same thing and becoming a majority party?

And I disagree that many dems do most of the things you describe, speaking of strawmen...

I didn't say most dems did it.

I said when dems do it, it hurts them.

Golly gee. Wait until you see what the repubs offer for an alternative.

It's funny how the same ideas, put in less dangerous tone, weren't interesting to people.

Then it bothered me that people didn't see the problem.

So I wanted to convey there was a serious problem.

My wording was perhaps too heavy on style and not exactly what I would have wanted to convey.

how much the DLC sucks!

Stand up for what is right, even if you are standing alone.

That would make us "bad." And, you know, subject to annihiliation!

Moonbat, DUmmies, Lie-berals, deathocrats, DemRats, Hitlery, KKKlintoon, etc. etc. etc.

calls guys like Rumsfeld an' Cheney "Repubelickin's". That always gets a big laugh. An' the biggest laughs come from the guys what voted for Reagan. Twice! Boy! Them guys sure used ta' love all that tough talk from the Republicans. And it's funny ta' think that some of them union guys used ta' vote straight-ticket for the Democrats!

But those guys stopped bustin' Hillary's chops an' moved on ta' the big trouble-makers some time after they found out our troops was sent ta' Iraq for lies. Johnny Kowzlowski don't like that his grandkid's there, the kid's in a safer place than most, but Johnny and his gang don't like it one bit. They worry like hell about all the kids.

They still like the tough talk. we still don't even remember half of each others real names, we been callin' each other names for so long!

Beer and laughs is what cuts the pain when a guys been two-timed. If its by a gal or a Party, it don't matter. Still helps. That's the way guys are sometimes.

Disclaimer: this is a semi-fictional SCRIPT, just like the OP.

Stuff like Cheney telling Leahy to go FUCK HIMSELF on gov't property and such like...

And I'm not the only Democrat in the world who feels that way.

They're not winning on the merits.

It's fucking fascism....pure and simple.

(If it walks like a duck....)

...and repukes are lower than maggot shit!

If you can't talk respectfully to a conservative next door, you can't claim to be about representing the majority in a democratic republic.

Most of them are actually reachable on a one to one basis, in my experience. Especially with Bush's popularity in the toilet.

I've been able to do it more often than I thought I would be able to, so it's disheartening to see terms like 'repuke' etc., here.

though i disagree they are the majority. and when people are wrong they must hear the truth.

now, try showing a little respect for people who disagree with you.

nt

My point is if you want to be self-righteous Democrat, those things make you loose any moral clout you might once have had.

One I'm not buying.

Man, you want to talk about the shit that drives ME crazy- that's gotta be near the top of the list.

myself included who have a hard time with vowels. I could read novels by the age of 6, but I can't spell worth a damn.

It still drives me buggy.

Interestingly enough, I seem to have trouble with words that have two consonants in 'em- as well as that whole i before e thing. But I usually try extremely hard to make sure the stuff I put out is properly spelled English before I hit "post".


I might have displayed a little more patience with the OP if it wasn't such a pious, condescending lecture.

I dont think too many moderates look to professed Liberal message boards for news & views...

If DEMS were on TV saying this stuff, you might have a point...

or goddless?

Maybe it's time to sink to their level.

1. They lied about Iraq
2. They outed a CIA agent
3. They violated the law by illegal wire taps without going threw the FISA court
4. There is no separation of powers
5. They have infiltrated the MSM
6. Corporate lobbyists DO control the government, and that is what Fascism is all about

Unless you are reactionary YOU WILL NOT GET ANYONE'S attention. There are no rules in street fighting, and the swift pukes should have taught us that

We are going to be labelled as reactionary either way. Example, if you are not for the war you are against the troops, if you don't support the president you are unamerican.

If you haven't noticed THEIR reactionary style has been winning them elections...

1-5 was correct, 6 was partly correct and partly very debatable.

>> Unless you are reactionary YOU WILL NOT GET ANYONE'S attention. There are no rules in street fighting, and the swift pukes should have taught us that

Again, your party deserves to loose if the message is 'conservatives are repukes'

>> We are going to be labelled as reactionary either way.

Well don't make it true, then.

>> If you haven't noticed THEIR reactionary style has been winning them elections...

But if Democrats won using their reactionary style, it would STILL hurt the country, and I would stop voting for them, period.

because nice guys don't come in first

Do any of us actually LISTEN to Ann Coulter's points when she name calls? No. We just freeze her out.

If we name call, that's what will happen to us, too. The best way to talk to a conservative is to LISTEN. Wait for an opening, and then carefully step in. Don't make them slam the door in your face. Listen to them, really listen. The next thing you know, they're listening to you, and you're actually having a conversation.

...is what, exactly?

Secondly, focus on solving serious problems and talk clearly about it instead of throwing around nonsense.

Issues haven't won any elections lately, personalities have.

We would be lucky if this election hinges on issues, because the Republicans have nothing on issues. They have scare tactics and smear campaigns. But at least 30% of the population still think that Bush is a "good Christian" and therefore worthy of their votes. If the Dems don't watch out, we'll once again lose because the Repubs are the "good guys."

and the media won't print or air them, and when they do, they do with a condescending attitude.

stolen ballots, misplaced registrations, faulty electronic voting machines, uncounted provisional ballots, etc.

As to your other point, I don't think name calling is an effective tactic. Does Ann Coulter change any minds with her vile tongue?

What we need, urgently, are persuasive truth-tellers -- like Martin Luther King. And good listeners -- like Bill Clinton. And effective fighters -- like Paul Wellstone and Ted Kennedy.

We do need to fight back. But we don't need to match slime for slime, because -- unlike the Bushies -- we can attack with the truth.

Quite a number of my good friends are very conservative. While I may be their "token liberal," I have found that there are two things hindering the democratic party: 1) people are set in their political and religious convictions and are totally unwilling to change and 2) They don't want to hear what you have to say no matter how you say it.

Conservatives will vote for democrats only if the democrat happens to agree with the conservative (not the other way around) and the republican running for the office isn't "worthy" enough. Political races aren't about getting votes, they're about energizing people who would already vote for you enough to get them to go out and vote!

And do you know what I get in return? Name-calling and death threats.

It's useless, carl. Utterly useless.

getting in the way.

That's my experience.

What were you trying to say? And how patronizing was it?

...honest, sincere, and straight from the heart.

And you know how that is perceived, carl? As weakness, that's how.

Despite my thin skin, I'll do my best to overlook your implication that I have ever been either insincere or patronizing. When I say something, I say what I mean, and mean what I say. You don't even need to know me to know that -- do your homework and look up my posts for the past four years, and you may get a feel for the way I so very stupidly have laid my soul bare, repeatedly, and have been stomped on, because I was too naive to realize I was being set up.

Now, imagine similar conflicts with people who aren't even supposed to be on "my" side, and perhaps you can imagine how totally fucked over I've been by RWers just itching to burn a silly liberal.

I've been fucked over by my own family, carl. I no longer care to waste my time or energy on people who patronize me.


On edit: Typo

I'm talking about people who call them 'repukes' and who are patronizing.

I know there are hard asses out there. People can be mean, don't want to be decent, I know.

I'm not complaining about ALL of DU, or all of the Democratic Party, but I am concerned about some of the stuff that I saw recently on these forums.

given the fact that she was quite sincere and unpatronizing in her response to you. I don't detect even a trace of one. Peeeh-ewe! Something really stinks here. Self righteous? Yep, that I believe.

Oh, and by the way, PAHLEEZE... It's LOSE, not LOOSE!

I shouldn't have judged saphocrat by other people here who apparently don't want to discuss the things I mentioned in the first post at all.

We are just so relentless in our attacks on them via our all-powerful state-run media...


Oh, and on a personal level, we're always just scoffing at them in our Birkenstocks while we sip tall lattes at Starbucks before we hop into our spiffy new hybrids to go to the next wine tasting...

Shouldn't you have used we instead?

We is DU to me. They are those, repub and dem, who are lost in their ways.

I hope that was the definition of the OP also.

So tartar sauce goes well with them

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And stop calling them repukes! It hurts their, er, someones feelings!

My edit:

>> this is, IN FACT, a state, run by corrupt, thieving, lying, mercenary, warmongering, murdering thugs who think only of their own bank accounts, never, EVER dealing with controversial but insignificant issues like women's reproductive rights (after all, we are ONLY slightly more than half the population, but who cares?)and never, ever deal with joe sixpack (because, of course, the pugs do such a fine job of reaching out to him)

I agree with your assessment of the Bush Administration on everything except for that small section, and I'm very concerned about how America could become fascist or a police state, and I don't think simple-minded reactionary nonsense on the more reactionary left helps the Democrats handle the problems all that well.

If they are 'repukes' then are you dehumanizing and scapegoating some neighbor of yours, someone who you MIGHT be able to reach, if you could stop dehumanizing and scapegoating them?

my own way. Unless you deal daily with the likes of dobson, haggard, allard, tancredo, musgrave, and the whole lot of these right-wing loons, you haven't got a frigging clue.

by the way, who appointed you arbiter of the platform and behaviour of all the dems?

He isn't. Do you seriously think everyone who voted for Bush is Dobson or Fallwell?

Then you are deluded.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

it will just involve a meaningless counter-argument. Some people just have to get all up in your business and tell you how to live.

I didn't MAKE anyone live any damn way at all.

I DID express an opinion.

Whether the opinion was welcome or not, doesn't make me a busy body. This is a discussion board.

do. That's really to bad you don't like people saying Repuke etc, I'm sure it will lead to the Dems, how did you put it, annihilation? Seems like you just don't like the 1st Amendment very much.

Frankly, it IS talk like that, that alienates moderates and independents and (gasp) even democrats.

The idea that an opinion like mine means that I am against the first amendment, is silly.

It's stupid frankly.

You really have a one track mind. Sad.

1) it is already the perception of many that Democrats are off-base on issues of morality and defense

2) it is already the perception that many Democrats are elitist and patronizing toward 'joe sixpack'

3) it is already the perception that many Democrats scream 'fascist' like the boy who cried wolf

4) it is already the perception that many Democrats are unwilling to respect or listen to conservatives and are just extreme and unwilling to compromise

IT DOESN'T HELP

When that perception is fostered, in public.

And it certainly doesn't help when in private such perceptions are ignored.

And it's not good at all when there is some truth to it and no one seems to care because ALL the fault is the Republicans, AS IF the left couldn't alienate people ON ITS OWN, TOO.

Dems have a huge chance at taking Congress back this year, calling the opposition Repukes will have very little effect. Unless the MSM starts calling them Repukes and labels it to Dems, well I'm just not buying what you're selling.

I live with Rednecks galore, most of my relatives vote for Bush (those that vote) and I know the difference between them and a Repuke like Ann Coulter. I've had hours of conversations with them and other RWingers. I don't live in this black&white world you sadly live in Carl. Sorry.

But other DUers ARE in a black-white world, and THAT's part of what I'm complaining about.

FINALLY. Yeah, there are some DUrs who do live in a black&white world Carl. That is not the scary thing IMO. What scares me is that a huge portion of the population in America live in a black&white world. One that links Saddam to 911 or that anyone would believe we knew there were WMDs in Iraq. It is dangerous, dangerous stuff and we need to address it and not the petty stuff (just my opinion) like name calling. Why don't we stop all the violence and killing, bring back civility and there would be no need for curse words.

and demogoguery fuels reactionary currents in the culture, AND that kind of culture favors the nastiest elements of the right and extremes of all kinds, so it just contributes to the decline of political culture.

Harsh challenges are one thing. But 'repuke' is another. And empty rhetoric and ideological nonsense, are too dangerous.

I believe you are the one dealing in absolutes. Your entire OP is a display of two-dimensional thinking and drawing of conclusions without a shred of evidence.
The Professor

Everything I said that was a potential harmful problem, is a potential harmful problem.

"annihilate" well, it's a word, it's a word that says something is destructive.

ain't doin' such a good job. Like only 23% approve, or somethin' like that.

I can tell you this, if the Democrats start talking jobs full time, that'll blow whats left of the whole elite crap out a' the way like the day after when ya' got a beer and taco hangover.

I'll tell ya', there's nothin' more elite than a bunch of rich clowns tellin' us ta' go ta' war, who ain't even gone ta' war themself, and then when they lie about it all, tell us we're wrong and full a' shit for being worried and mad.

Ya' start callin' a sorry draft-dodger like Cheney a elite millionare over and over, and give all the details with a wise-crack tossed-in, and that's gonna stick.

by the religious right. I suggest you read the book American Theocrcy by Kevin Phillips to get a clear idea what we are up against

We on Du have been yelling about things for some time, and rightly so. Where are the people we employ at on this whole thing??

The problem is, that dems (in general) have been cowering in a corner -or as you might point out, sitting quietly in a corner. Why??

We pay them well, we employ them, and yet they let bush and crew get away with murder. So how are they representing us??

what do you consider to be the "controversial" issues that the Democrats shouldn't push, and what are the "bigger problems"?

(warning: this could get you flamed. Since I asked, I will try to be civil. Promise!)

I won't be bullied by a threat of flaming. I could care less.

Standing firmly against torture, standing firmly for accountability and oversight of the police agencies/pentagon, getting a better economic safety net and health care for all people, improving the education system, and effective laws against harassment and bullying of anyone, are very important issues.

Other issues are further down on the list.

But I wish to know exactly what issues you think the Democratic Party shouldn't Push- it would also be great to know your reasoning. I was simply saying that there *are* people who will flame you- most likely no matter what you decide isn't important. If you don't want to tell me, then I will have to guess. If you would answer, or even PM me, perhaps you could take the time to explain why each issue shouldn't be on the party line.

Where moderation is scoffed at instead of taken as a first step, where a single issue becomes more important than other issues (like standing firmly against torture, getting out of Iraq, economy, schools, etc.)

Things like gay marrriage, schools, the environment, the economy, getting out of Iraq- these are all single issue things, but they seem to be what motivates the American people. I don't think we're going to change anyone's minds- but the Democratic party could do a bit more to energize the votes it would already have... There are a lot of people who don't vote, but would vote for us in an instant. If we can bring out as many single-issue voters like these as we can, I think we not only have a good chance in the next election, but we could turn around voter-turnout numbers.

So all the other single interest voters really will go to hell with the rest of us if they are that stupid, all of them.

While torture carried out by the troops is a major problem, I'm not sure its as damning as you think. While the world will view us differently (worse), it wasn't our torturing that caused 9/11 or the war in Iraq. It was our shortsightedness. Think about it: we trained Osama Bin Laden to fight the Russians with terrorist tactics. We gave Sadam chemical weapons and more! All these things are just coming back to bite us in the ass. And while torturing will too, its a lot harder to get people out voting over it. After all, many people back the death penalty, and what is that but another form of torture?

(Ps. Goodnight, it is 3:18AM here, and I must sleep)

I don't care if it's Deshowitz or Sam Harris, they can be non-Christian, afraid of the religious right all they want, they are moral weaklings, I hate to use the word 'moral' even to combine it with 'weakling' on them.

Bullying, harassment of women and homosexuals and poor people, the nasty culture of humiliation, it all sucks, it all brings down the country.

And reactionaries WIN with our culture, reactionaries know exactly what to do with it, fascists, stalinists, etc.

We don't call ordinary Republicans that, only the ones who act like thugs, or who say things that make us want to



This generally occurs where "moderate, independent or centrist" involves toeing the Republican line, praising Bush**, etc,
since according to this Faux framing, Bush** is the "center", and the moderate, centrist, and "independent" course is
to agree with him in all things.



Bush** has been throwing around "signing statements" and treating the constitution like a "scrap of paper".
The robber barons and the fundies have bought the government. They own the news, the churches, and the voting machinez.
If it quacks like a duck…



Seems to me that's what you're doing.



So you would have us throw gays to the lions and women to the back-alley abortion butchers. The "moderate" position.

If this is NOT what you had in mind, please specify which controversial issues you wish the Party to cave in on.



Whose problems are not "real"?




You are certainly attempting to talk down to us here.



You used that term, I didn't. I notice that most who do use it are trying to get the party to be more accomodating to the bigots.



If we didn't care, we wouldn't be here.

n/t

wonder why???

* The Iraq War, which is opposed by about 2/3 of the people in this country?

* A national medical plan that would put the USA equal to every single other first world country on the planet?

* The stealing of elections like in OH and FL and other places both in 2000 and 2004?

* How about global warming, that not a single published climatological paper among thousands disputes?

Do you mean these controversial issues?

While I beleive firmly in global warming, I would like to point out that there are many hundreds of climatological papers disputing it. And most- if not all- are based in solid evidence (Ie: truth, but not the whole truth).

NOT ONE disputed global warming, nor that the warming was caused by the activities of man.

The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change

I presume that you will soon provide citations for those hundreds of papers you mention. Please only include those in refereed journals. No others matter.

Yeah, the tin foil hats on both sides keep life interesting but Annihilation???

There are a lot of people who are not reached by the Democratic Party.

On DU there are cetainly some attitudes that are an example of why.

I could take you seriously. - The fact that you started with such a bizarre position doesn't make it very easy. -- the very idea a few wild hairs in the Democrat party are going to drag the ENTIRE party down the friggin drain, ---- that a few "fascists" here and "Repugs" there are going run moderate Republicans into Ann Coulter's arms is just so hysterical.

The fact you do not seem to recognize the VAST MAJORITY of DU posters -- let alone the party in general --- aren't anything like your characterization --- well, let's just say I'm a little suspicious. LOL

And the 'type' I'm talking about does exist, it's just good to raise a warning I think.

That those kinds of things don't help Democrats, and can be serious issues.

when a Democrat candidate - or Olbermann type pundits - start blanketing the airwaves calling the average southerner a "repug" get back to me. I'd be more than happy in joining you in condemning that person and relegating them to "moonbatblogforum.com" so to speak.

A frustrated Joe Schmoe venting on DU isn't likely to put a dent in the vote tallies. Painting all Democrats as "moonbats" will do more harm than they will. IMHO of course.

to me, though. And I think our country IS in moral decline, and the Bush Administration is ONE part of the glaring evidence of moral decline in the country.

Many democrats are the other part of the glaring evidence.

Bully-culture is what it is, it has no moral high ground, it deserves the criticism it gets, and I feel that way about people who say they agree with my politics, and also about those who are very vocal in disagreement.

I just don't want to give free passes to people who agree with me.

and cussed out the authorities. If you think sitting calmly with your hands folded in your lap saying please and thank you while the US attorney general refuses to enforce election law - thereby assuring the populace no longer has a voice of any kind.... well more power to you.

I don't see any evidence of enough firmness of character to claim you are like Jesus

you actually think you are qualified to judge anyone's character here other than your own??

That about clears it all up for me. ROFL.

Welcome to ignore. LOL

I'm sure many would find it quite strange if you or I claimed to have the character of Jesus, a bit presumptuous.

Again, if you can't see that, it illustrates why the left can alienate so many people.

Shish.

Hey, got the discussion going. A little hyperbole can wake people up.

But demeaning republicans and either underestimating them or dehumanizing them, is folly.

and rant for all of DU to see. You think people here are to stupid to figure out who is a moran or a neocon, or a repuke? You really think we all live in this myopic world you insist exists? The only folly I see here is this thread, but it is a public forum so let er rip!

Come Rex we have some ANNIHILATING to do! By any means baby!!

Something about Democrats and annihilation in the same sentence, just kinda sets the tone.

Oh well...


ON TO THE REVOLUTION, BINKA!

You don't change people's minds by putting them on the defensive -- which is what name calling does.

I know this is just a message board, a way that some people let off steam. I've been assuming that most of the name-calling etc. that I see here doesn't carry over into how we conduct ourselves in our real lives -- isn't how we'd talk to someone face-to-face.

But sometimes I've wondered.

(And, Carl, for what it's worth, I've never been able to type the word "Repuke" either. Just never felt comfortable.)

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

When I have an opinion about something suddenly it's a tag team?

Better put your tinfoil hat on.

And I do not do tinfoil I prefer Kangol hats myself. Ciao!

My treat. (You can thank me later.)

Follow the link if you dare . . .

http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

What if he had a history of being (ugh) a Republican? Would it make any difference?

Sometimes I'm afraid our party is in danger of P.C. ing itself out of business. I'm hoping we can figure out a way to be the party with the big tent again -- where we don't expect everybody to toe the line on every issue. Where compromise isn't a dirty word.

Because I'm sure sick of being the minority party.

If a calm please and thank you helps you and Carl reach a few then more power to ya'll. No one is condemning that and there's a place for that. Claiming there's no place for the royally pissed off folks with "Bushit" stickers on their car and a "bushitler" sign in the trunk is just ridiculous - IMHO. Like I said in another post - Jesus reached quite a few by basically telling the authorities to go F themselves and having a complete hissy in the middle of the most sacred place on the planet.

I'm offended at the comparison, frankly.

But I don't have a problem with Bushit stickers.

It's the 'repuke' thing, someone who voted Republican who wants to consider Democrats now, sees 'repuke' and re-thinks whether they should just stay home or vote for another republican and hope.

And acting like Jesus would say 'repuke' on this board, is a bit presumptuous, and a lot of religious people would find that insulting.

If you don't know that, well that's another reason why many get alienated by the left.

I've posted Republicrat and Democritan sometimes, when it seemed too many politicians were the same, and I've tended to rail against Limbaugh Fallwell and Robertson as immoral people, as authoritarians, as part of the great evil facing our country.

I do not mistake my nextdoor neighbors for those politicians and religious-right demagogues, unless they make it clear to me that they are like that themselves, and even then I'd prefer to offer a reasonable disagreement to them instead of ideological garbage, to see if it can become respectful.

Clear talk, facts, can be very harsh, very direct, very biting.

There really isn't any need to trash-talk and demonize people who are misinformed, confused, mistaken, or who otherwise might be reached.

The mere suggestion of THINKING about some things, just leads to mindless buzzwords, slogans, and defenses that DON'T WORK even for me, a registered Democrat who intends to vote for all Democrats next election.

Now, if something seems to have holes in it to someone like me, if something seems like a cheap shot or simplistic or just rhetorical to me, and I'm completely against Bush, let me tell you, lots of people who are upset at Bush, may not vote against him, may not want to vote Democrat, and they are going to be a bit more critical than I am.

I know there are bigots and people who are just reactionary, don't think, don't want to treat Democrats like people. We can walk away from them, they can't be catered to, if they want to be reasonable and listen sometime, well great, but until then, no point catering to them.

But there are others, and some of them are 'gasp' against schoolyard bullying of homosexuals, BUT are not for gay marriage. Or 'gasp' they are against torture at Abu Ghraib BUT they aren't total peacenicks.

They are REPTILES. There is no fucking reasoning with a motherfucking alligator it has one intent and that is to EAT you. I say fuck the nicey poo. Take them out. BASTA!

But if they disagree, they may or may not be reachable.

Even if they aren't reachable, they may not be an asshole to you.

The ones that are nasty, harrassing, and violent, can't be reached, I agree.

If that is what you are trying to say.
We have to have integrity, regardless if the other side has none.

However, sometimes people just get plain mad with all of the crap that has gone on. So please allow some of us, every now and then, to blow off a little steam. As long as it is an exception to the rule and not the rule, I see no problem in that.

Try living here (in Texas) RED Country where things are a little different. I think you see other's viewpoints better if you were to experience being on the losing end of argument for the last twenty years in these places. We have been vilified, cussed, belittled, made the butts of jokes, (and worse) you would understand a lot more if you had been in our shoes here. It is mean down here, liberal is a cuss word to these people.

We are mad and with good reason. You may have valid points, but so do some of the others. Come on down and visit me for a week and let me show you around, it will be a real eye opener.