We've Stayed The Course

[cali]

and 2600+ Americans are dead. Security in Iraq is worse now than it was last year or the year before or the year before that. We've stayed the course for almost 4 years and through 3 Iraqi elections. We've spent half a trillion dollars. We've neglected the important mission in Afghanistan. It's time to refocus and change the course. We will never know if Iraqis can stand up for their own country and their own government unless we give them the opportunity to do so. Continuing to repeat the same actions hoping for a different result is a good definition of insanity. We've had over 3 years of doing it the republicans' way. We can no longer afford their course. It's crucial that we make changes in order to get better results, and it's clear that republicans in Congress, who have backed bush on every aspect of this war, are incapable of doing so.

OK, that's my attempt at framing the Iraq debate. The 2600 number is a modest estimate of where deaths will stand in September; that's when I think we should really start hammering them with these points.

[NewJeffCT]

1. I loved Craig Crawford's line from MSNBC last week...

"Thelma & Louise stayed the course - and they went off a cliff!"

Or something like that.

[madokie]

5. and the sad part is we are heading toward the cliff at break neck speed

all the while the cliff is heading toward us with blinding speed. I guess we can be thankful that the point of impact will not be a culmination of the two. oh wow

[ixion]

2. the course

has 'the course' ever been defined in anything other than abstractions and generalizations and jingo? No. Given that, how can we know the course if it hasn't even been defined?

:eyes:

[cali]

4. It can fairly be interpreted

that staying the course means continuing on the same trajectory set by the admin. They are vague and we can use the same sort of vague language to fight them.

[Virginia Dare]

9. I call it Mission: Impossible...

as it was defined last week, during the Chimp's post-visit victory lap, we stay the course until the Iraqis have a fully self-sustaining and operational government, economy and infrastructure, and a stable and secure society.

At the current rate of progress, does anyone with a brain realistically see that happening anytime in the foreseeable future?

[ixion]

10. exactly... that particular 'course' is a neocon utopia that hasn't

existed since...hmmm... gee, before we put Saddam Hussein into power.

Remember at one point that Iraq was a stable, secular, successful society. Then we started in with our little puppet regime machinations, and the next thing you know it's all gone to hell, and the the same people who implemented this disaster sit around scratching their slimy heads wondering how it could've gone so horribly wrong. :eyes:

[H2O Man]

3. Very good.

The administration wants to keep the public's thinking hostage to the dead Americans. I saw that snake Karl Rove saying if the democrats insist on leaving Iraq now, they will have to explain to the families of the dead soldiers what they died for. No, Karl, get out of here with that weak shit. You and your friends need to explain to those families why their sons and daughters died. And you need to explain to the other families why you expect others to fight and die in a war that you lied to bring us into, and that very few people here support at this late date.

[cali]

6. Thanks water man

I respect your opinion.

[Virginia Dare]

7. You know, maybe this is his evil plan after all...

Get the Democrats to lead a "get the troops out" rally drawing pressure from the American public, ultimately convincing Congress to insist on a plan to withdraw the troops.

Of course, they fuck up the plan and mass slaughter ensues.

Democrats get blamed, "see, we told you, we should have stayed and seen this through, all of our soldiers died in vain, blah blah blah".

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Stay The Course To What?

My objection is even more fundamental to your, clearly correct, facts and figures. If the "Mission Accomplished" was the truth, than what course is necessary. Either the mission is accomplished or it's not! So, if we still have to be on ANY course to success, than that was an outright lie.
The Professor

[Igel]

11. This is the better framing.

If you like framing. Me, Lakoff ... eh. I don't even think I'd call it framing, but simply playing judo with their words.

In any event, say you've reached the end of the course and be done with it. At least then you've actually opened a way of engaging the other side in a meaningful way, instead of merely shouting slogans.

(Remember, the course was a track that the horses went in for a certain number of times, set by convention or the organizers ... not an unmarked path.)