What was the worst Presidential screw up?

[El Supremo]

Poll question: What was the worst Presidential screw up?

I, like many others, am really pissed at this administration for murdering so many. But I need to put Iraq in perspective of other historic foul ups.

[BlooInBloo]

1. I used to be in favor of Ford's pardoning Nixon..

... Now I think it was an error. Apparently republicans didn't learn that not playing by the rules is a BAD thing. Maybe republicans now would be different had that lesson been impressed more strongly back then.

And then we might not have stolen elections, 9/11, Iraq, Enron, and all the rest...

[MissWaverly]

10. I think it was the pardons for Iran Contra

Even though Watergate was bad, I think Iran Contra was worse, because it was based on secrecy
and lies and was completely against what the guidelines were.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Ok, but I was never in favor of the Iran-Contra pardons in the 1st place.

[MissWaverly]

16. Yes, I know but I think that's where this stuff came from

I think that the secret deals and covert stuff never went away.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Ok. I disagree - I think it has older sources...

... Like Nixon's "getting away with it", via Ford's pardon.

But it's a little bit like arguing about which skyscraper weighs more.... LOL!

[MissWaverly]

25. well, I think that executive privilege comes from then

but I think the growth of the covert ops and CIA blossomed out of the Ford, Reagan and
the Bush administrations. I think that Watergate was small "beer" compared to what's
happening now. But maybe I was younger then and more naive.

Ah, youth.

:-)

[cynatnite]

2. Reagan...repealing the fairness doctrine

Seems like that put us where we are at today.

[VOX]

12. You could make a good argument for this! This was the opening wedge...

And here we now sit, up to our ears in hate radio, far too many right-wing talking-heads, a 24/7 "news" channel that pumps right-wing sewage exclusively, etc., etc.

Excellent thought, cynatnite. Sobering, but excellent. :thumbsup:

[PWRinNY]

3. Bush: screwing with our Constitution

He's unraveling the very fabric of America. IMO there is no bigger screwup than that. Downright evil.

[unhappycamper]

4. That's a toughie.

It's a toss in my book between LBJ and GWB. Both were wars started on lies. LBJ appears to be ahead at the moment: there are 58,195 names carved on The Wall; there's a large population of homeless people who have been permanently fucked up by that war.

I'll have to think a while before I vote.

[El Supremo]

7. I agree with your reasoning.

That's why I voted for LBJ and Vietnam.

[donco6]

5. Bush 1 doing it with Barbara.

Major f_ck up there.

[PWRinNY]

6. HAHAHA!!!

:spray: Good one! :rofl:

[VOX]

13. Oh man, are you ever **correct**, donco6!!!!! n/t

[Selatius]

8. Viet Nam, but Iraq could be worse as far as consequences

When South Viet Nam finally fell in 1975, the event didn't escalate into a situation where several large powers are sucked into the conflict.

If the US pulls out of Iraq, there will be a power vacuum, and Iran's Ayatollahs will try and develop their ties with Iraqi Shi'ite clerics further. The Sunnis, of course, will fight tooth and nail against this, and the Kurds may decide to bail out, which would force Turkey to send in its armies and crush the Kurds before they even attempt to declare independence and create a "Kurdistan." It would be chaos.

It's true that Viet Nam led to 58,000 dead American troops. Iraq will most likely not approach such a level of death, but the geopolitical consequences of Iraq falling into civil war could be catastrophic for the region and the world, much worse than what happened after Saigon finally fell.

[Arkham House]

9. Wilson's war message to Congress, 1917

The US entering World War One as a combatant was the ur-blunder of the 20th century...unimaginable mischief and evil emanated from it. No other decision begins to challenge it for sheer disastrousness...

[otherlander]

20. Yes, that was pretty disasterous, wasn't it? But then again...

after the end of World War 1, he was interested in maintaining peace. I think that if the Fourteen Points had been followed, especially anti-imperialism, fair treaties, and self-determination, WW2 could have been avoided.

[El Supremo]

23. You are absolutely right.

We had a genuinely noble cause in ending WWI. Unfortunately the only way was to join one side or the other and fight.

What happened after The Great War was a true travesty. But you can't blame that on Wilson.

BTW, Iraq was created by a stupid treaty between the French and Brits at the end of WWI. They had no concern for religious and ethnic differences. We are paying that price still today.

[KyuzoGator]

14. Bush 41 impregnating Barbara? nt

[NNadir]

15. I suggest you look into James Buchanan.

Bush is a disaster, but Buchanan's disaster killed many hundreds of thousands of Americans in a time when the US population wasn't that high.

What happened, the Civil War, may have been more or less inevitable, but he made the situation much worse than it had to be.

Buchanan almost caused what Bush may yet cause, the complete destruction of the American experiment.

[FSogol]

17. Other: * doing nothing about Katrina? n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

18. In hindsight ......

Clinton not going balls out to investigate the shit that happened in the two adminstrations that came just before his.

I don't fault the guy, but in retrospect that could have prevented SO MUCH PAIN.

Our next Dem has GOT to shine some harsh sunlight onto the books of Il Dunce's reign.

[maveric]

21. Bay of Pigs was a screw-up.

Maybe not the worst but should be noted.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. LBJ, Tonkin Gulf a toss up with Boobya and Iraq. But, not screwups.

"Screwup" indicates a blunder, a mistake. Neither the Tonkin Gulf BS or the multitude of excuses for invading Iraq were "screwups". Both were premeditated aggression.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

24. Clinton: hiring Dick Morris

turning off the dem base with triangulation and creating the apathy that allowed dubya and the boys to sneak in and wreck things

this was a true screw-up from somepme who didn't intend those connsequences. dubya got exactly what he wanted when he invaded iraq and he and dick will have quite the dough in their trust funds when they leave office

[UTUSN]

26. RAYGUN raping a starlit? n/t