The Only Solution to the Immigration Problem - Give Everyone Citizenship

[Yavin4]

Allow citizens of Mexico, the U.S., and Canada to hold dual or triple citizenship rights in all three nations. That's right. Make getting citizenship rights in all three states easy and simple, on the level of say getting a passport. The downside to the individual is that he/she would be taxed in all nations that they have citizenship.

Would these dual or triple citizens have the right to vote in their respective nations? Yes, they would. Citizenship would mean that they pay taxes to these nations, and as such, they should get a vote. Having a huge labor force here illegally or as guest workers without the right to vote is a modern day form of slavery.

Geography and human history trump borders. They always have and they always will. Corporations have the ability to move and locate any where in the world that they please. So why can't the people.

[theboss]

1. I don't really want to vote in Mexican elections

I find this a supremely bad idea.

[Yavin4]

2. You Wouldn't Have To

Nobody would force you to become a citizen of either Mexico or Canada. You can remain just a U.S. citizen.

The problem that you should be concerned about is having the largest growing segment of the American population working here without any rights at all. This was tried before when it was called slavery.

[jerry611]

3. Making them all legal only makes it worse

The corporations will still be able to drive down wages since the unskilled labor poor would be flooded.
It's like supply and demand. There will be so many people looking for jobs that the companies will not have to pay high wages for the work. Someone complains and they are fired, replaced by someone willing to work minimum wage.

And it still doesnt stop companies from outsourcing to India or China.

[Yavin4]

4. Not True

Once they have citizenship, then their wages cannot be driven down, and it'll be far, far easier to prove who can work legally and who cannot. Also, because of the dual taxation, it will be cost prohibitive for someone to work for less than the market wage.

Right now, businesses can drive down the wages for illegals because their illegal. Making them legal, removes exploitation.

[unlawflcombatnt]

20. You're wrong

Increasing the supply of labor drives wages down, regardless of whether they are legal or not. The laws of supply and demand are not suspended because immigrants are legal or illegal. More workers mean more competition for a given number of jobs. 7 million more workers drives wages down, regardless of their legal status or country of origin.

In fact, legalizing them will make the problem much worse, because it will result in a massive increase in immigration into this country.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Skidmore]

24. Removes exploitation the same way NAFTA and the other AFTAs

have. Extremely bad idea. The other problem with this is that no matter how much wages are reduced the prices for goods for the American consumer stays high. We are subsidizing low wages in other nations by paying prices that are forever higher and by money giveaways to those nations to support corruption and suppress the human rights of others. The corporate masters have gotten bold though and are now going to work on the American public as well.

Supremely bad idea.

[RebelOne]

5. I think not. Very bad idea.

[Yavin4]

9. Not Only Is It A Good Idea. It's The Only Idea

And, it will be the solution in the long run. We already have over 12 million of them here in the U.S. today. Having a massive and growing segment of the U.S. population working here with no citizenship rights is an impending disaster which we've seen before when it was called slavery.

[High Plains]

6. North American Union. If the Europeans can do it, why not us?

[adwon]

Uh

If you want to talk geography and human history trumping borders, then you need to realize what you're calling for is one government for North America. Considering the fact that US massively ouweighs its two neighbors in population, you are calling for an expansion of our borders. I doubt they'd go for it.

[Yavin4]

8. Because of NAFTA, Isn't That What We Have Now?

Commerce knows no boundaries. So why shouldn't governments?

[The2ndWheel]

10. The problem is that capital knows no boundaries

The solution is not to make government bigger to match capital. Because that is a game that will only get worse, as each tries to out-do the other.

In my mind, things need to shrink, not enlarge. But since that isn't what civilization has done on a voluntary basis for 6 thousand years, I don't expect that to happen.

Why are you stopping at Canada, the US, and Mexico anyway? What about Central and South America? China? India? Africa? Unless you do the whole thing, your solution doesn't work, because there will always be someone somewhere willing to work for scraps if he or she needs to feed their kid.

[Yavin4]

11. We Already Have A Borderless World

Citizenship is nothing more than bureaucratic mumble jumble. Human beings are not content to stay in the same place forever. They will always migrate to those areas of the world where they can prosper.

At some point, my solution would also include China, India, Africa, etc. etc. The U.S. should be a beacon for the entire world to live here and prosper.

[The2ndWheel]

12. Obviously it's borderless

Just not by law.

"Human beings are not content to stay in the same place forever."

Maybe at one time, when we were nomads. But since we started agriculture, we've been quite content, unless we use up the land base with overpopulation because we have so much extra food.

"At some point, my solution would also include China, India, Africa, etc. etc. The U.S. should be a beacon for the entire world to live here and prosper."

How much mumble jumble will be needed to keep that going? What do you mean by prosper? Everyone living in luxury? What central authority is going to keep that machine working? Where does the global police force come from to keep things in order? How many representatives will there be? Enough to represent 6.5, 7, 8, 9 billion people? What about automation? You'll need cheap energy out the wazoo to keep that luxury luxuriating. What happens when we use up the planet? Everyone hops on the ship with Hawking to the next planet to colonize?

Good luck with that plan.

[Yavin4]

16. Not Everyone In The World Will Move Here or Become Citizens

Just like not everyone in Michigan will move to Florida or Arizona. Most people will stay in their native country and not become full U.S. citizens.

For those that want to do so, becoming a citizen should be made easier and simpler. Because of geography, Mexicans and Canadians should be able to do it much more simply.

[Greyhound]

14. Has it occurred to you that that is exactly what they want?

"The New World Order" is a tiny elite ruling over several billion serfs. Duh.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Superb idea. Unfortunately, it's workable and practical.

Therefore, the politicians wouldn't consider it.

[Greyhound]

13. How would this help in any way?

Mexico will still be a corporate kleptocracy with 100 million uneducated serfs and I'm pretty sure Canada doesn't want any part of this mess.

[Yavin4]

15. First, It Would End Exploitation of Illegal Workers

Second, this is going to be the solution whether you like it or not. If this plan is not embraced, it will lead to strife and conflict as sooner or later, illegal workers will refuse to continue to be exploited.

[adwon]

17. So they could be exploited legally?

So they'll be citizens getting the shaft instead of just being illegal. That will help oh so much!

No thanks. Part of citizenship is sharing a common culture, not just a passport. It's ludicrous to assume that average American could meaningfully participate in Mexican politics and culture...just as the reverse is also true. Assimilation to a new culture is not done with the passage of legislation, but with effort and time. All this idea does is slap the title 'citizen' on a bunch of people with nothing more in common than living on the same continent. Quite impractical.

[Yavin4]

18. The Average American Wouldn't Have to Participate in Mexican

elections. Only those that want dual citizenship would. I'm not suggesting wholesale citizenship rights. I'm just suggesting that if any Mexican or Canadian wants American citizenship or vice versa then it should be as easy as getting a passport or a driver's license.

If you live in Michigan, you can move to California with little or no problems, correct?

As for language, what's wrong with people becoming bilingual? Most Europeans can speak different lanugages, and you don't see their cultures crumbling.

[adwon]

19. So

Second-class citizens, eh? No thanks.

Michigan and California have a history together. You know, the basis of your argument, that history trumps borders? Well, to compare two US states is fairly silly. Better to compare France and Germany. God knows they love each other.

I didn't mention language. The fact you can speak the language of a given country doesn't mean you can contribute as a real citizen. You still must learn customs, local idioms, history (both formal and informal), as well as understand the assumptions and prejudices held by the mass of people. This sort of thing takes 20 to 30 years, not a quick trip to the DMV. Offering people a quick and painless choice does nothing but devalue citizenship. That's great if you're trying to run a multi-national empire, but not so hot if this is supposed to be some sort of republic.

[Greyhound]

21. Do you seriously believe that the US and Canada can just absorb

millions and millions of new people with out significantly diminishing their standards of living? Your saying that this is inevitable does not make it so and history and human nature indicate otherwise.

[BlueIris]

22. Kick.

[Andromeda]

23. That's what Bush wants:

The North American Union. It's the worst idea I've ever heard of.