700+ signing statements? I wonder how many secret pardons he granted?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

Remember all the heat Clinton got for his last minute pardons? In one or two cases, I probably felt the same way as many others.
Now, given the secrecy of this administration, the refusal to properly report to the American public, their refusal to even release data to COngress, and even their claim that the NSA can't be investigated because the investigators' security clearances are not high enough, who believes that Bush and Co. have NOT already pardoned most of the players in the runup to the Little Iraqi Invasion? And torture? I'll bet that Gonzales, Ashcroft, Feith, Cheney, and others are already scott free; they are simply keeping mum.

[liberal N proud]

1. Can a pardon by granted before anyone is charged?

[oscar111]

2. "pardoned in advance for any crime he may have committed"

i seem to recall that phrase from some history of Nixon or others in that era

totally outrageous

like something from the Middle Ages

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. I do not believe that you have to be charged with a crime before pardon

Didn't Gerald Ford pardon several people suspected of illegal acts, but not yet charged? In fact, wasn't his pardon of Nixon broader than the impeachment charges?

[izzie]

5. I would think they could do up to the Constitution

Well until Bush I did not think that any one had more power then what the Constitution said they could have. So I do not think that any one could forget a crime if the Constitution said it was a crime. That sounds sort of nuts but Ford really did not have the say if Nixon should be charged or could forgive him for something he did. I think I will just give this up. Some one must be able to say it with some better writing than I am trying to do.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. the constitution does not permit pardons on a very few issues.

[izzie]

13. Thank you. I just messed that whole thing up.

--

[onenote]

4. a pardon can be granted for crimes committed even if charges not yet filed

See Ford's pardon of Nixon, for example.

That being said, I fail to see the logical nexus between the signing statements and the idea of "secret" pardons. The signing statements aren't and never were a secret. Nor are they anything new (although chimpy uses them far more than his predecessors).

Why bother with an advance pardon? What difference would it make whether the pardon was granted now or later. If its a secret,it doesn't prevent charges from being brought.

[PADemD]

6. Are the Signing Statements Open to the Public

or are they classified?

[originalpckelly]

7. Everytime he puts one out they go up on the WH website...

they aren't classified. Its just that no one looked at them before the Boston Globe did.

[Solly Mack]

8. Open to the public...in my journal is a link to his signing statements

and a way to check for any new ones he signs. Link added below to search

Complete List of Signing Statements made by Bush - A Must Read
Posted by Solly Mack in General Discussion
Sat Mar 25th 2006, 12:48 AM
I've listed a couple of examples of Bush's signing statements from 2006. Note the language used - especially in the second example - "unitary executive branch"

Bookmark the below link and you can check each week for any and every signing statement he makes.


Excerpts from 2006 Signing Statements

Statement on Signing the Department of Defense, Emergency Supplemental Appropriations to Address Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and Pandemic Influenza Act, 2006
December 30, 2005




"The executive branch shall construe
these sections in a manner consistent
with the constitutional authority of the President."


Statement on Signing the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006




"The executive branch
shall implement these provisions in a manner consistent with the
President's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive
branch"


More at Search Signing Statements - http://www.gpoaccess.gov/wcomp/search.html


In the search field type "signing statements"(w/o the quotes). They come in Text, PDF and Summary.

[PADemD]

12. Thanks for the Link

[sendero]

9. I will never understand..

... what the framers had in mind with this pardon stuff. What possible good use could it be?

Giving people a blank check is never a good idea, and the framers went so out of their way to avoid blank checks in every other facet of the Constitution. Why did they do this?

So far, virtually every pardon I'm aware of has been an abuse - forget Ford's "dividing the country" excuse, it would have done the county good to have gotten that stuff aired right then and there.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. I read a letter on this

I forget if it was madison or jefferson.

In essence, the purpose of the pardon was to erase mistakes and to show mercy in the most trying of circumstances.
They saw a brit legal system that stomped on the rights of individuals, and they wanted a safety release.

[sendero]

14. I guess I can...

... envision such a circumstance, I just don't think one has happened yet. It seems the only mercy being exercised is political/self-serving in nature.

[Nevernose]

15. What about commuting all the death sentences in Illinois?

That was hardly self-serving,

[sendero]

17. A commutation..

... isn't really comparable to a pardon. The folks are still in jail.

[DBoon]

16. I don't worry so much about secret pardons

I worry about secret detentions and secret executions

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. thank you for putting this topic in sharp, realistic relief. How true.

there certainly are larger and more critical issues looming, aren't there?