Beating the Right

[carl_pwccaman]

Revealing the Republican Party's idiocy, their lack of accountability, hypocrisy, and disregard for human/civil rights, with determination and with moral indignation, can get a message out there, can make a difference.

But establishing Democratic alternatives as more ethical, more morally sound, more politically principled, as deeper answers to serious problems, and as insightful and realistic approaches to real dangers, is extremely important, too.

It isn't just about the platform. Hypocrisy, shallowness, or unrealistic approaches will hurt us. Lack of principle with hurt us. Over-focusing on lesser principles or ignoring the most important principles, will hurt us.

Let's strenghten our positions, let's look at the best most principled arguments, and let's look at difficult realities deeply.

This is serious business. Serious challenges, serious criticisms, can be opportunities to really do better.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Random_Australian]

2. We all chose to live in a system that would eventually make

winning everything.

[Swamp Rat]

3. If it truly is a 'zero sum game', then I want off of this rock!

:D

[BlooInBloo]

5. Just a bunch of rabid dogs. Just like republicans. Sigh.

[rman]

8. wtf are you still doing here then,

if you think DU-ers are "just a bunch of rabid dogs"?

[BlooInBloo]

9. Duh-ER! I dunno! Wut did it LOOK like i wuz tryin to do in thuh thred?

[Swamp Rat]

12. You mean 'rabid RATS!' ... get it right!

:rofl:



eeeeediiiit!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BlooInBloo]

13. LOL! - my bad!

[rman]

6. oh nice broad brush that

[BlooInBloo]

11. Silence speaks volumes.

[riverrine19]

14. i think you are right,

i`m so distraught about our current govt. that i believe that we should get in the gutter with these bastards,win by whatever means possible,having said this,i know its wrong,just trying to be honest.

[riverrine19]

4. what morality is there in a war

of choice,deception at its greatest,a govt. on the wrong track,morality is one of those sneaky bastard works,you can always rationalize something.

[rman]

7. "you can always rationalize something"

Doesn't mean there's no such thing as morality - unlike what neocons and nihilists seem tho think.

[riverrine19]

10. morality is standing up for the poor

downtrodden,doing good works,having a heart and using it.

[carl_pwccaman]

19. Yes, concern for justice and compassion and understanding reality

and what you said, that is ethical, that is moral, and it is active.

Presenting THAT message as morality is much stronger than repeating slogans of tolerance or equality, when it is done while we point to things that have been done that are practical, helpful, good.

We can become better, and present ourselves better. We can challenge ourselves to really try to communicate the practical and principled wisdom we have, whatever that is, on whatever issues we have it.

It will help. And we need all the help we can get.

[carl_pwccaman]

20. True

Making sure there is a REAL safetynet and working it out so that it works better for everyone, is a very real good thing to try to do.

Just because it's difficult to explain or proove to everyone's satisfaction doesn't make it untrue or non-existant.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi riverrine19!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[riverrine19]

18. thanks for the welcome

[Asgaya Dihi]

17. The morality we bring to it

One of my favorite examples with cons who try the same argument is George Washington. We haven't had a time I don't think when things were more at risk than then, and the leaders including George himself faced hanging if caught.

At the time there was no Geneva Convention, the rules of war were whatever the people with the power said it was and offering quarter to the enemy was seen as an option of the victor. The Hessian mercenaries we fought butchered ours when they had the chance and we did the same to them at first. George saw this and put a stop to it, said that we weren't going to win by fighting like they did. That's even in the cold with no gear and no food for your own.

You want morality? We have to offer it, it doesn't come on its own. The quicker we are to compromise when pressured the less we'll find of it. If we'd set a record of leading by example maybe people would start to believe in it. They used to.

[carl_pwccaman]

21. I couldn't have said it better myself.

You want morality? We have to offer it, it doesn't come on its own. The quicker we are to compromise when pressured the less we'll find of it. If we'd set a record of leading by example maybe people would start to believe in it. They used to.

Thanks!

[BlooInBloo]

23. Seconded.... Except possibly for the "they used to" part....

... I think that's an unjustifiably romantic view of what may, with equal justification, be viewed as a quite evil-ridded history.

But I'm with ya on the feeling that "those who WANT morality should be the ones PRODUCING morality"... Too bad DU as a whole isn't down with that...

[neoblues]

15. How about...

Going back to basics...

Such as making it a primary component of our Democratic "Ideology" and susequent "Platform" that we strongly support "Populism" (as defined as: the political doctrine that supports the rights and powers of the common people in their struggle with the privileged elite).

We need not address "ethics/morals" other than to express that we do well as measured on the scale of ethical and moral behavior--especially as relevant to governing (against unnecessary wars, in favor of people's rights, in favor of raising mankind to it's best, education for all, opportunity for all, promoting honesty, truth, justice and all moral behavior in all citizens who've been respected, given guaranteed rights, etc...), and that Republicans fail on all such measures (owing to their penchant for lying, cheating, stealing, corruption, preference for unfair taxes, inequality, aristocracy, priveledge and so on). Our "values" are sound, our "ethics" are proper, and our "goals" are lofty.

Alas, we do face a large segment of America that likes the kind of corruption, feel good lies, and unequal distribution of opportunity, education, rights and wealth... who also desire strongly to press their worldviews on everyone else and who won't negotiate and do not want to achieve a consensus. Of course, those are just exactly the reasons why we must defeat them politically.

I'm just afaid that with the large number of DINOs that even if we did win back some real power in 2006, that our Democratic "Leadership" would still choose not to seek to restore America to what we had before, much less move ahead and improve on it. Our "leaders" have us over a barrel--we need them to achieve a Democratic majority to avoid the continued destruction of America, but because we need them--they don't have to worry about doing what we want them to since we can't replace them. Arghh.... Vastly better the the Republi-destroyers we suffer with now, but not the real, Democratic "idealists" we desperately need.

[carl_pwccaman]

22. Focus yes, not to get caught up in all the moral quibbles of dinos

We need not address "ethics/morals" other than to express that we do well as measured on the scale of ethical and moral behavior--especially as relevant to governing (against unnecessary wars, in favor of people's rights, in favor of raising mankind to it's best, education for all, opportunity for all, promoting honesty, truth, justice and all moral behavior in all citizens who've been respected, given guaranteed rights, etc...), and that Republicans fail on all such measures (owing to their penchant for lying, cheating, stealing, corruption, preference for unfair taxes, inequality, aristocracy, priveledge and so on). Our "values" are sound, our "ethics" are proper, and our "goals" are lofty.

I think the way you pared down each term, that sort of thing is good, it 'saves' such terms from the quibbling and meddling of moral majority or academic legalistic meanings of such terms.