Is Public Shaming by the Church Legal? TX Appeals Court Will Decide.

[kpete]

Is Public Shaming by the Church Legal?
Texas Appeals Court Will Decide if Church Can Release Private Info
Can Church Shame Man Accused of Affair?

May 28, 2006 — A female member of the Watermark Community Church, a non-denominational evangelical church in Dallas, Texas, reached out to her pastor after her husband had an alleged affair with another woman.

But when the husband, identified only as "John Doe," failed to reconcile with his wife, he said the church's minister, Todd Wagner, shamed him from the pulpit.

And the minister didn't stop there. When the husband tried to resign from the church, Wagner allegedly threatened to mail a dozen letters — half to Watermark Community Church members and the other half to members of other churches who know and have worked with John Doe — detailing the alleged affair.

......................

John Doe does not feel the love. He is suing the church over the letters and said he is no longer a member. But the church says its covenants, which Doe signed, does not allow members to leave the fold.

more at:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2013910&page=1

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Sounds like blackmail, to me. n/t

[Gman]

2. Freepers will be Freepers

and wingnuts will be wingnuts.

[benburch]

10. Sounds like the PERFECT church for some freepers I know.

In fact, they are probably reading this now.

[Xeric]

3. next he'll be sleeping with the fishes

"But the church says its covenants, which Doe signed, does not allow members to leave the fold."
What is this, a Mafia Church?

[kestrel91316]

17. Well, I do know that in the early days of the Mormon church, there was

only ONE way to leave the church, and that was "six feet under". They had a sort of zero tolerance policy toward any dissent or dissatisfaction or changing of one's mind.

Maybe this church has decided that sort of thing is perfectly ok?

[Xeric]

18. No doubt there's a bible quote

that they can interpret that way.

[beam me up scottie]

4. "John Doe does not feel the love."

:D

Sounds more like a cult than a church.

[gkhouston]

5. so it's a cult.

I hope at least a few of the "members" (or should I say inmates?) of this church have enough sense to leave this place before it implodes. If my minister ever had the nerve to claim that no one is allowed to "leave the fold", my ass would be out the door so fast it'd create a sonic boom.

[pooja]

6. Disgrace the Church some more

If you embarass the church enough, they might just be willing to let you go. Otherwise, its time to get out of town.

[silverweb]

7. WTF?

"...the church says its covenants, which Doe signed, does not allow members to leave the fold."

Who in their right mind would ever sign such an agreement?

What kind of ligitimate organization would ever demand it?

:crazy:

The guy was nuts to have ever signed it in the first place, but I hope he wins his case and the court makes it clear that that agreement can't possibly be binding.

[stepnw1f]

8. It's a Cult (nt)

[Donkeykick]

9. Folks,

you can only appreciate this sort of thing; it most definitely brings the religious right down further and further. I love when I see this sort of stupidity in the news. If this doesn't wake up the public to their judging ways, I don't know what will.

[kpete]

11. Thanks Donkeykick

Couldn't agree with you more...

[bobbieinok]

12. if there really is separation of church and state, should this be in court

[Peace Patriot]

19. Separation of church and state doesn't mean that a church's ministers or

members can break the law or commit civil offenses. This looks like a case of defamation and extortion. As for the "covenant" he signed, think about this: What if I signed a covenant to be someone's slave--literally, as in someone else owning me? Am I bound by it? Would/should a court uphold it against me, and return me to slavery because I had agreed to it? The covenant he signed has no force. You cannot sign over your right to freedom of religion or association (except maybe when George Bush or a big corporation requires it...oh, my...I mean, except in the old republic...I mean, except when we had judges who believe in democracy and upholding the Constitution...). (Oh, my. Oh, my, my, my.)

[msongs]

13. once a nazi, always a nazi? what about freedom of religion? nt

[meow2u3]

15. Freedom of religion also means the right to change religions

Something this fundie cult doesn't seem to understand.

[kevinbgoode]

14. Uh-uh. . .

"Kelly Shackelford, chief counsel of the Liberty Legal Institute, a Texas organization that fights for religious liberties, said the church is behaving this way because it feels it must save the marriage."


The "marriage" is not licensed by the Church.

[Eric J in MN]

16. deleted

nt

[madmusic]

20. "Liberty" Legal Institute

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:0l7WSWtCaGEJ:www.bibleinschools.net/pdf/libertylegal.pdf+%22Liberty+Legal+Institute%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3">Attorneys for National Council on Bible Curriculum Issue Challenge to Recent Attackers

Plano – Attorneys for the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools (NCBCPS) respond to Texas Freedom Network’s (TFN) attack on an elective Bible course offered in public high schools across the state.

“It is ironic that a group which claims to be against censorship is now attempting to become the biggest censor in the state of Texas ,” said Hiram Sasser, director of litigation for Liberty Legal Institute.

The recent report, The Bible and Public Schools, published by TFN and authored by Dr. Mark Chancey has sparked a national debate on the use of the Bible for academic study. “If TFN thinks they have a case, they should file it. Otherwise, they are just full of hot air,” Sasser said. The NCBCPS curriculum has been approved by 300 school districts in 37 states and endorsed by many of the nation’s leading constitutional scholars, public officials and law professors. In the case Abington v. Schempp, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that “the Bible is worthy of study for its literary and historic qualities,”so long as it is “presented objectively as part of a secular program of education.”

...

The NCBCPS curriculum has been approved by 300 school districts in 37 states and endorsed by many of the nation’s leading constitutional scholars, public officials and law professors. In the case Abington v. Schempp, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that “the Bible is worthy of study for its literary and historic qualities,”so long as it is “presented objectively as part of a secular program of education.”

Isn't great how they hijack "liberty"?

[beam me up scottie]

21. Yeah, I love that.

Not to mention "freedom".

Who are we?

Liberty Legal Institute (LLI) is a 501(c) (3) organization that was founded in 1997. The Institute fights to protect religious freedoms and First Amendment rights for individuals, groups, and churches. LLI's assistance is provided free of charge to ensure all individuals and groups can thrive without the fear of governments restricting their freedoms.

Liberty Legal consists of a network of over 120 dedicated attorneys across the state of Texas successfully battling in the courts for religious freedoms, student’s rights, parental rights, the definition of family, and other freedoms.

The Institute offers its assistance pro bono. Attorneys across Texas donate their professional expertise and time to fight for these sacred freedoms.

I feel so much better knowing they're looking out for my freedom.

Overview

· The Institute has been involved in cases before the U.S. Supreme Court numerous times. In March of 2003, the Institute coordinated an amicus brief for the Child Internet Protection Act (CIPA) case before the U.S. Supreme Court.

· In 1999, the Houston Chronicle considered the Institute to be the Texas “conservative version to the ACLU”.

· The Institute has handled countless legal situations with a success rate of over 80 percent.

· In 2003, Institute attorneys served as national spokespersons for the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) as it became law in Texas, joined other groups in getting Women's Right to Know Act passed, and aided in a victorious battle to get Prenatal Protection Act passed.

[madmusic]

22. Thanks. That's what they sounded like n/t