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millions still live under the illusion that we must obey the law...why?

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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:19 AM
Original message
millions still live under the illusion that we must obey the law...why?
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 09:33 AM by mopaul
our leaders don't, why should we?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's why they won't be our "leaders" too much longer.
Let's not join them in federal prison.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Because they have better guns than we do
as well as a hell of an arsenal of high explosives.

It all goes back to the Golden Rule.

"He who has the gold, makes the rules."
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. i'll bet we have more
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Is your FSM pin available somewhere?
It's wonderful!!
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. i stole that from someone here at DU
but i'd love to have a real one
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. http://www.rof.com/fsm.htm
:)
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thank you!!!
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. yes, our leaders are maniacs, no, you may not disobey them
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. What are you advocating?
Civil war?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. i'm just sayin', it's an illusion
literally. a few hundred maniacs destroying the world right in front of our eyes and we don't stop them because we live under the illusion that we can't.

but we could.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Because the illusion is the glue
that holds society into place. Stops the RW lunatic from down the street coming over and busting into your house. (most of the time) Stops us from blowing up their SUV's (most of the time).

I believe people are individuals, It isn't law that is the illusion, but leadership. People don't follow words, they follow actions.

How many times has Bush talked about helping NO? The poor? Elderly on Medicaid and medication? No child left behind? It's talk.. the action doesn't exist for domestic policy.

We have some of the best talkers of the political battle ground! But with a majority of Reps holding the house and congress hostage, we have no actions to back that up. We only have a voice and a muted one at that.

Now, lets see what action if any we taken on Alito.

At the very least I want all No's out Dems, to me that is action for the record even if it doesn't stop it, the objection is noted.



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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. It is amazing when you think about it
What outrage does it take to get the masses to rise up against tyranny? I guess I need to study some previous revolutions.
For what it's worth, I do celebrate Bastille day.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Here's a place to start your study of revolution.
Edited on Fri Jan-13-06 11:25 AM by leveymg
There is a large and elaborate formal political science literature on the subject. Unfortunately, nobody reads it outside the Central Intelligence Agency, a few college professors, and political operatives like Mike Ledeen and Grover Norquist . We all should learn what they think they know.

Start here: http://www.iet.ru/publication.php?folder-id=44&publication-id=4524&lang=en

Chapter 4 describes the process of revolution comparing the English, French and 1917 Russian revolutions. The authors use the formal framework elaborated by C.Brinton, identifying three main periods of revolutionary development: the rule of moderates, the rule of radicals and thermidor. However, the substance of the analysis is quite different, being based not on a simple quest for similarities but on the logic of social struggle.

The authors identify several main pillars for this analysis: 1) economic trends matter in the process of revolutionary development (though the “revolutionary economic curve” itself is described in another chapter); 2) as pre-revolutionary society is highly fragmented the dynamics of the revolutionary process cannot be analysed in terms of class struggle, instead micro-social analysis is necessary to understand the logic of revolutionary transformation; 3) weak state power is the essential element of any revolutionary process; 4) four main elements determine the behaviour of any revolutionary government: ideology, the need for social support, the need to find means of financing revolution and the experience of previous revolutions.

The rule of moderates can be divided into several sub-stages: initial unity against the old regime, fragmentation according to positive programs and polarisation in two directions: radical and conservative. Unlike Brinton, the authors consider the process of “dual sovereignty” as a confrontation not between moderates and radicals but between conservatives and radicals, while moderates lose more and more ground to these two extremes. The moderates go under, because they cannot overcome the limits of the type of action determined, first, by their self-image as the most popular government based on national unity and, second, by their ideology of combination of all the best features of the old and new orders.

The rule of radicals, in our view, is shaped by the need to keep together a highly fragmented society in conditions which are extremely dangerous for the revolution. Three main instruments are usually used to achieve this objective: forcefully imposed ideology, terror and manoeuvring among social groups to maintain a pro-revolutionary coalition sufficient for radicals to preserve their power. The role of ideology at the radical stage of revolution is usually overestimated. We illustrate the predominantly practical and pragmatic nature of radicals’ actions by means of several examples. Rather then viewing the radical period as “the reign of terror and virtue”, we see the main determinants of government activity at the radical stage as being the search for sources of funding and for social support. These two goals are often at odds, and the balance between them which is finally achieved is determined by specific features of different revolutions. Experience of other revolutions also plays a substantial role, sometimes more important than ideology itself.

Thermidor is the period shaped by active processes of new elite formation and stratification. It consists of two sub-stages. In the first one, the process of social manoeuvre continues and the government is still weak and vulnerable, as it has to balance the interests of several competing groups in the newly forming elite. The population at large plays a diminishing role in this stage but intra-elite conflicts continue to be sharp and destabilise the situation. But as soon as one of elite groups is strong enough to dominate political life or several of them form a strong alliance, a new authoritarian regime based on the interests of this group (or alliance), is established. It means that the revolution is coming to an end.

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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Very interesting
Bookmarked for further perusal.
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NotThatNolan Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. What's this "we" stuff?
I think the word you're looking for is "you". The plural form. If you were ever actually going to participate you'd be dead or in prison by now.

I'm sick of talk. Name the place and time and I'll be there. Let's get this bitch rolling.
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Noam Chomsky would probably start talking about "consent" at this
point in the conversation. I honestly don't know what it would take to get a more equitable and balanced society in place, but to paraphrase Ron White, I do know what ain't working.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. disruptor
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. bigger guns
more money

they are royalty now, didn't you hear?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. They'll always have the bigger guns and more money.
What we need is patience and discipline -- the very things they're running out of.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. zzzzzzzzz
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-13-06 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. illusion kick
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