Woman Fights To Hang American Flag On Home

[The Straight Story]

Woman Fights To Hang American Flag On Home
Property Managers Say Flag Used To Block Sun

POSTED: 10:50 am EDT May 24, 2006
UPDATED: 10:58 am EDT May 24, 2006

A woman in Port Orange, Fla., is being taken to court by her property managers for refusing to take down a large American flag she has hanging on her front porch, according to a Local 6 News report.


Theresa Vale, who has children in the military, said she was told to remove the flag by her condominium association.

She said she will not remove the American flag from the entrance of her property and that the entire incident is unpatriotic.

"Take the flag down?" Vale said. "That would be like taking my heart out and putting it on a table."

http://www.local6.com/news/9266435/detail.html

[wryter2000]

1. Criminey, I hate that mentality

I won't belong to a homeowners' association because of stoopid rules like this. Leave the lady's flag alone.

[noonwitch]

19. I agree. You end up with a comittee of self-important idiots

Drunk on the tiny piece of power they have, who enjoy making everyone miserable to compensate for their own inadequacies.

I'll stick with my post WW-II neighborhood, with it's brick bungalows and no neighborhood association!

[bpj1962]

20. Condo Association Rules

First let me point out that I am in the real estate business and I deal with HOA/COA on a daily basis. The issue here is uniformity and resale value. If you make an exception for her and let her hang the flag then what do you do about the neighbor who hangs their towels out to dry or rainbow flag or a nazi flag. Prior to this women purchasing the condo she was given a set of condominium documents that told her the do's and don't of the association. She then has 72 hours under federal law to read them and either except them or back out of the deal at no cost to her. I am so tired of people wrapping themselves in the flag and accusing people of being unpatriotic because they don't want to follow the rules.

[noonwitch]

31. I'm not saying they shouldn't have the agreements,

I'm just saying I'm not the kind of person who is going to like living in such a place.

[Recursion]

34. Yeah, but resale value argument is BS

Time and time again studies have shown that the only factors that affect the resale value of a property are square footage and location.

Nothing else.

Not the trash or lack thereof in neighbors' lawns. Not cars all being parked in garages. Not the smell of baking bread in the kitchen.

HOA/COA "covenants" are just excuses for pesky busybodies who wish they were still on the Prom Committee to stick their noses in everybody's business.

[Kingshakabobo]

43. I beg to differ.

Up-keep of common areas in a condominium project is important for re-sale.

[Recursion]

49. Yes, I know people think that,

and say that, but the data don't back it up. The data only back up 2 factors: square footage, and location

[Kingshakabobo]

54. I understand where you are coming from......

I've been in the business 10 years and I know appraisers don't give value to the hallways and paint.....BUT....I guarantee you, a shabby foyer, shabby common elements and broken down elevator will cost you in the form of interest in the property which will translate in to money.....and faster sales.

I guess you are saying curb appeal doesn't matter either? I guess I shouldn't spend money on landscaping when I rehab houses? I shouldn't stage the house either?

To be clear, I don't think this little measly flag is going to bring down the property value.

[wryter2000]

52. Certainly a distinction can be made for someone like her

I'd agree with you if her flag were creating some permanent damage to the property. Don't we have enough compassion for someone whose child is in severe danger in the military to make people see the difference between hanging a large flag and hanging towels or a beer flag out the window?

Anyone who complained because I wanted their Budweiser flag taken down when her American flag stays up is a moron and should be told so.

And maybe her kid wasn't in a war zone when she signed the agreement.

On edit: I see now the article says "in the military," not in Iraq. Still, anyone in the military now stands a good shot of ending up in Iraq, even if they aren't there already.

[Iblis]

55. Nope. Sorry. We must ahere strictly to the Rule of Law.

We can't afford to be seen as jingoistic war-mongering Bushies.

*sigh*

[NashVegas]

59. Are Silly Things That Silly People Buy Into

I can see where owners may have a problem with the Nazi flag, but a rainbow? So what? Towels drying? Quelle horror! That's just not our sort of people, is it?

I always thought the point of home ownership was to have a space where you get to make your own rules, provided you aren't defying any real laws.

If someone signs a sheet of paper agreeing to keep the space they supposedly own in accordance to someone else's arbitrary rules, they're little more than glorified renters.

[Catherine Vincent]

2. Why doesn't she hang the flag in her home instead?

[Kingshakabobo]

35. EXACTLY! n/t

[sui generis]

3. Why doesn't her neighbor hang a big ol' Budweiser flag?

Maybe her neighbors should hang a great big gay rainbow flag or a huge neon pentagram or Eye of Horus outside their condo properties.

Wonder what her views are on that?

[Iblis]

4. Waiting to see whether she's labeled "Freeper Nutcase" or "ACLU Hearthrob"

That seems to be the only choices nowadays.

The way things have been around here lately, I'm going to guess the former.

L

[Bridget Burke]

24. "the way things have been around here lately"?

Got any examples?

Since March, that is....

[Iblis]

26. Two words

Jesse MacBeth

or

Jessie McBeth?

Jesse McBeth?

I guess while you're researching that name and it's numerous threads on DU, I'll have time to find the numerous examples where anytime an American flag is brought up it's vilified and anything mentioning "peace" or "Bush sucks" is glorified. When it comes to free speech around here sometimes it's like the MSM and Katrina: one person's "looting" is another person's "foraging".

Let's not start this again.

L

[Bridget Burke]

28. Well, most of us prefer peace to war.

And very few of us love Bushie.

Guess that means we're all America Haters.

[Iblis]

30. That's swell.

"Si vis pocem, para bellum"

...and I wouldn't say "all". I'm not willing to make that judgement. However, it did seem people were whipped into an awful frenzy over such an easily debunked fraud; one of the first responses in one of the threads even denounced supporting the troops.

I was just making a bemused observation on the selective enforcement of the First Amendment that seems to take place on here. That's all.

Have a nice day.

L

[Iblis]

32. One more question, though...

So you're saying that lies and fraud are okay if they support peace and ending the war?

Just checking. Honestly. I'm not labeling anyone. I just want to be sure.

[Bridget Burke]

58. Lies & fraud got us into this war.

But you complain about DU'ers liking peace & disliking Bush. Get used to disappointment.

I stopped checking several weeks ago. Honestly, I am sure.

[Iblis]

62. So the ends justify the means?

I would think you would be above using the tactics of the other side. Doesn't that just bring you down to their level? Isn't maintaining some sort of integrity important?

Why would I be here if I liked Bush? I dislike him and his policies. I am a little disturbed when people use a dislike of Bush as a vehicle to put down everything about America. I still believe Bill Clinton, who said:
"There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America."

Otherwise I would have moved to Canada in November of 2004.

I don't dislike peace, but I will sometimes question 'pacifism'. Sometimes I think struggle is part of our biology, and to deny that can be dangerous. Once again, if you would have peace, you'd best be ready for war.

I'm sorry we seem to have a misunderstanding about this. Sometimes the nature of the internet makes it difficult to communicate effectively.

L

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. LOL Good call, Bridget!

:yourock:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools."

She's proving Schopenhauer right.

[Caoimhe]

6. Simple

Don't move somewhere with homeowners associations. Otherwise, abide by what you signed and STFU.

[skypilot]

7. to block the sun????

What is she supposedly blocking the sun from? Is her flag shading the entire block or something?

[Kingshakabobo]

47. It appears, from the photo, that she is using it to screen the sun....

.....on her little balcony/porch.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Thank god I don't live in a condo place.

You surrender just about all your rights when you live in one of those places. Yuk.

[Maddy McCall]

10. doncha know it.

I couldn't live in one, either. I've seen news items that make those associations seem like little more than bullies.

Of course, if you sign the agreement that you have to sign to move it, then you have to abide by the rules.

But forbidding outside display of an American flag just goes beyond the pale. :(

[Maddy McCall]

9. Ridiculous that she's being made to remove an American Flag...

She has kids in the military. Let her fly her flag.

I think she deserves to have the flag seen. If it were inside her home, only she would see it. She has pride in her children and in her country.

[Iblis]

13. apparently, you and I are in the minority...

If she was hanging a gi-normous sign saying "Peace NOW! Stop the WAR!" This thread would be kicked to the top and people would be sending roses.

But an American Flag? gosh! No! We must abide by the "rule of law".

*sigh*

L

[Maddy McCall]

46. Yep.

[reichstag911]

14. I disagree.

True patriotism is not found in ostentatiously displaying a flag; that's more likely jingoism, or in her case, maternalism. The most patriotic are those who are well-informed of what is being done in their name by their government, and there's a glaring shortage of those true patriots.

Besides which, she agreed to abide by the rules -- think GW* here, if you wish -- and has chosen to unilaterally breach that agreement.

[Iblis]

15. I can't judge her motivations, beyond having kids in the military.

I for one don't know her views on the war. Will you make that judgement?

I still stand by my statement that if she was hanging that flag upside-down, or it was a huge peace-sign, she'd have people from this board flying down to defend her.

L

[Iblis]

16. Having said that...

I think she should probably hang it on a pole. The flag in the window DOES look a little tacky.

L

[reichstag911]

22. Not me, she wouldn't.

We have laws and contracts for a reason. The problems in this country are largely attributable to selective enforcement thereof. And a lot of bad laws, of course, inspired by publicity-driven officeholders and seekers.

[Iblis]

23. Okay. Not YOU.

Point taken.

L

[Maddy McCall]

38. Oh, pu-lease.

There is no litmus test that states what one's intellect must be before one displays a flag.

For god's sake, she's got kids in the military. That's a hell of a commitment to her country, and for that she deserves to fly her flag at her home if she wants to.

[reichstag911]

39. OK,...

...what other laws/contracts is she allowed to break because she's got kids in the military?

[Maddy McCall]

42. We aren't talking about "other laws/contracts," are we?

We're talking about a woman who signed a covenant, probably before she knew that her kids would be in the military, who probably could not fathom that anyone would EVER protest the display of an AMERICAN flag.

It's an American flag. NOT a sign. Not a clothesline with granny panties on it.

It's the AMERICAN FLAG.

[reichstag911]

60. It's a piece of colored cloth.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on the inviolable sanctity of the flag.

[reichstag911]

40. And...

...I don't recall mentioning intellect; why do you?

[Maddy McCall]

44. OK...

I'll just say this. See, some of your comments have strayed from the covenant, so let's talk about your other comments.

I don't give a good goddam if she's "well-informed" or not (and you seem to assume that she's not) or if she's a "jingoist" or not(you seem to assume that she is).

She gave birth to and raised more than one child--and those children are now in the military. If she wants to display a flag on the front of her home, I'm all for it.

My grandmother was not a "jingoist" and she didn't prop herself in front of a computer 12 hours a day on a political website (thus, probably not as "well-informed" as you would consider yourself). Her husband served in WWI and both of her sons served in the Army during and after WWII. She displayed the flag on the front of her home until the day she died.

You want to criticize people who display the flag for "probably" being jingoist or not well-informed. It makes you sound like a pompous ass, and insensitive to the people who truly have sacrificed by being in the military or having family members there.

[Kingshakabobo]

48. I was wondering why the association didn't let her fly the flag on a pole.

...and then I read the article.

Why can't she fly the flag on a pole?? Or would all be lost if she treated the flag with a little respect rather than a bamboo shade?

What am I missing here. Did you read the article? According to the story, they only want her to put the flag on a pole.

[Maddy McCall]

50. I read the article.

You seem to be taking the manager's word, that she's using the flag for a "bamboo shade."

There are lots of maybes here. Maybe she's disabled and can't climb a ladder to mount a flag. Maybe she can't carry quickcrete, dig a hole, and plant a pole in the ground.

Maybe the help she WOULD have had is in the military, not at home to help her...so she did what she could do by herself, and put the flag up on the porch.

Lots of maybes here...since the article really doesn't tell us, we are supposed to infer.

MAYBE some good guys in her area will read the article and offer to set up a flag pole for her--I'm a woman, but if I lived near her, I'd certainly offer to help her.

[reichstag911]

61. "Pompous ass?"

Well, if she were well-informed, she wouldn't let her kids be cannon fodder for our imperialist war, now would she? Why is it that so many southerners have this ridiculous reverence for a piece of fucking cloth? Amend the Constitution to prevent flag-burning, let us have the Confederate battle flag as (or in) our state flag, blah blah blah...

And you sound like an ignorant ass for giving no solid, logical reason for her displaying her flag so ostentatiously in contravention of her contractual obligations.

[wicket]

25. Agreed

n/t

[rpgamerd00d]

11. Woman signs agreement not to hang flag - hangs flag anyway.

That is what the title should read.

[Saphire]

12. exactly!! She agreed to live by the rules when she purchased the

place, now she wants to change the rules. These people make me crazy!

[The Straight Story]

21. Well, not so fast on that:

Property managers at Canal view place said they are taking Vale to court, saying she is using the flag to block the sun rather then to display her American spirit.

So it is, apparently, not against the rules to have a flag - they just think she is doing it for a different reason.

[Bridget Burke]

17. The property managers want her to use a flagpole.

And say she's hanging it to block the sun.

She needs to spring for a flagpole & some shades. Nailing the flag to a wall is damn tacky.

[verse18]

18. I can't believe she compares taking the flag down

to having her heart torn out.

"Take the flag down?" Vale said. "That would be like taking my heart out and putting it on a table."

[Rabrrrrrr]

27. You know, people, we have no idea what's going on

The article says that the association says that she's using it to block the sun - she didn't say that.

The article says the association wants her to use a flag pole, but it says nothing about whether she is required to use a flag pole.

The article, in fact, does not say why the association wants the flag down, other than that they think she's using it to block the sun - but we have no idea, because the article does not say, if she signed any agreement at all that affects this situation.

So far as we know, she could be within her rights to hang a flag. This could be simple bellyaching from a bunch of pinheads.

On the other hand, she might be in clear and definite breach of covenant.

We don't know, because the article has no information of any value whatsoever.

[Iblis]

29. EXACTLY!!!

THANK YOU!

*sigh*

RRRGh!

L

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. That's The Way It Goes. She Should Take Down The Flag.

Many condo communities don't allow you to put anything on the building, flag or not. Many won't even let you get a satellite dish. That's life. Buy a house if you want to do whatever you want. Otherwise you gotta deal with it really.

[karlrschneider]

37. We don't have enough info to adjudicate the matter as described

without knowing what specifics are in the homeowners' covenants (assuming there are any.)

Everything depends on the details and they aren't provided.
:eyes:

[fishnfla]

41. I'll go check it out

I dont know if I would call this place "condo's" , and well, that canal, is more of a big trashed- filled ditch.

But its down the road here and across from the liquor store.

B double e,double r,-u-n.

Be back soon

:hi:

[Maddy McCall]

45. Thanks, fishnfla.

Can't wait to hear from you when you get back.

:hi:

[fishnfla]

51. Ok I'm back, I did a drive- by

A lil' background: Port Orange is typical FL bedroom suburbia-to get to this place I drove by McMansions, campgrounds, trailer parks and developer cut-outs where all the places are faux tropical same color knock outs.

This place is in a working class area, they are really small townhomes, but tidy. There is about 2 feet from the front porch from where you park your car.Not much yard, front or back

1. Local Fox News 35 was there interviewing the neighbors.

2. The entrance faces due east, the place probably gets direct am sun from 9:30 am to 12:30. There is another row of townhouses which facing. FYI: a westerly face would give brutal afternoon sun.

3. There is no room for a stand-up flag pole and nobody else has one. I suppose she could have a flag pole attached to the porch rail, but nobody else does. Nobody facing east or west has any sort of sun blocking awning or anything else

4. No other unit has hanging flags of any kind. There were some hanging plants and wind chimes, and one thing that looked like the Star of David, hanging on other porches. But otherwise it was clean and tidy. No kids bikes or toys on the porches, or grills and coolers, etc.

5. The flag was visible only to the other neighbors really. There is a small side street there but no thoroughfare.

6. I guess I could turn on Fox 35 and watch the report, but I'd rather eat dirt than do that

7. I got a twelver of Red Stripe and a sixer of Dos Equis at the ABC

8. I'm sure there will be something in tomorrows Orlando Sentinal. They go for this red white and blue stuff

[The Straight Story]

56. Thanks for checking it out!! Awesome job!! (nt)

[Maddy McCall]

57. Thanks, fishnfla...

Thanks for telling us more about it. :hi:

[Darth_Kitten]

53. Time to get proper window coverings......

oh, that's me...... ;)