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slide to the left Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 10:59 AM
Original message
Immigration e-mail I got today
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials in ages!! It explains things better than all the stuff you hear on TV.



"Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country

protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal

immigration. Certain people are angry that the U.S. might protect its own

borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to

stay indefinitely." Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind

these protests.



Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in

your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and

washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all

the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when

I broke into your house)."

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must
add me to your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits to me and
to my family (my husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part). If you try to call the
police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house
carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there. It's only fair, after all,

because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better

myself. I'm hard-working and honest ... um, except for ... well, you know.



And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a

fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it

without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being anti-housebreaker.



Did I miss anything? Does this sound reasonable to you? If it does, grab

a sign and go picket something. If this sounds insane to you, call your

senators and enlighten them because they are stumbling in the darkness
right now and really need your help."
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Dufaeth Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ever seen 3 Iron?
good movie based on this premise.
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. I like that analogy - pretty much says it all!! Of course some will......
....say that those breaking into your home have the right because they "only want to better themselves" and that you "have the duty to provide those with what you have and they don't". :eyes: :dunce:
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IselaB Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Actually, it doesn't "pretty much say it all"
What if the intruder tells you that he's there because your landlord pays him to show up every now and then and clean the place up. The landlord doesn't care how he gets into the house as long as he gets the job done.

Then the intruder tells you a story: "I used to live in this house. But your landlord stole if from me. He just came in one day and said it was his and told me to leave. I called the police, but they refused to do anything, because the landlord is rich and powerful. Now he rents the house to you. I had to move down to the south side of town, where there isn't much work. I begged the landlord for a job and he said I could come back into the house and do some housework and yardwork and he'd pay me a little money. If you've got a problem with that, take it up with the landlord."

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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. My ancestors came here LEGALLY, that's all I ask of anyone nt
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IselaB Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Well, GOOD FOR YOUR ANCESTORS
If they came here legally it was because of one of three things:

1)It was a time when we were letting everybody (from certain parts of the world) come in freely, or

2)they were seeking asylum from a government the US government didn't approve of, or

3)they were well-off professionals who are often welcomed into American society with open arms.

But they weren't poor, working-class Latinos trying to immigrate here anytime in the last few decades.

But it's good that you've been able to manufacture this whole arrogant, self-aggrandizing attitude based on something your ancestors did. It's good to feel better than other people, even when it's based on the accomplishments of somebody else.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. My father's parents showed up at Ellis Island.
They passed their physicals & got permission to enter the country legally. No Immigration Lawyers, no endless paperwork.

As Irish Catholics, they faced some xenophobia--but they did qualify as "white." Just barely, according to some!

Don't know about my earlier ancestors. But things were even looser in those days.




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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
35. It's on "arrogant" to ask people to follow the law when..........
....they refuse to follow the law and then have the audacity to make all kinds of excuses for not following the law.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. I somehow think the US didn't ravage the economy in their native country
either.

Mexicans can't even make money off of their corn crop anymore. NAFTA fixed that for them.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. And once again I will remind you that is not possible in 2006
if you are a Hispanic from Central America.
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Logic people...how many fallacies are there here?
Do Americans "own" America? Is it their "property?" I see a fallacy of equivication here. This is not to mention the selfish "mine mine mine" Murkin attitude. Greed, thy name is Murkin.
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BonnieJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Do Americans own America?
Um yes they do. They live by the rules, pay the taxes, defend it. Yep, it's ours!
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. They do, until some rich guy wants your property
and can convince local politicians that it's in the community's best interest to take your land and develop it into a shopping center or luxury homes . . . when's the last time "eminent domain" was done for the sake of a middle-class or poor person? I don't remember any reports of million-dollar estates being bulldozed to put up a bunch of low-income homes . . . usually it's the other way around . . .
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. IMHO the citizens of a country are the owners
After all I've been making payments (my taxes) for almost fifty years and I also have some "sweat equity" in two hitches in the military. Selling "legal residency" to those that have entered this country illegally is selling what I've worked for these many years, very cheap.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. So do you own the country more than people under 50,
non-taxpayers such as disabled people, or people who haven't served in the military? I never knew there were so many gradations in this "ownership society."
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Didn't say or imply that
I just stated why I feel that citizens of a country are the owners of that country and stated why I thought that I was one of those owners. You read into that what you want.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Why else is someone an "owner" then?
Other than military service and tax payments? Is there any other way to break in? I want my 1/280,000,000 of the acreage of the country to do up the way I want--but do I qualify?
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Countries are "owned" by their governments
The government of the USA is ostensibly "We the People", that would be citizens by birth or naturalization and other LEGAL residents.
Now you tell me why people that have entered this country illegally, and if working with phony documentation, have committed a felony should be given the same rights and privileges of those "owners".
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. That's a drastic oversimplification
There's land owned by the government and land not owned by the government. There are people who have a say in policy-making and there are totally disenfranchised people who are still US citizens.

I'm not arguing for equal rights here, I'm just saying the "ownership" analogy is Republican tripe. As for "doing something" about illegal immigration, any attempt to turn the clock back will mean rounding people up, and nothing can convince me that's ever right.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. "Land is owned by both governments and individuals but
a country is owned by its citizens. You've changed the meaning of the discussion by now saying land.
Declaring someone legal who was the day before illegal is giving them "equal rights" except for the right to vote which comes with citizenship.
I've said nothing about "rounding people up". Enforcement of the workplace rules with serious penalties for the employers of these illegal immigrants would be all that is necessary.
The only real beneficiaries of the proposed legalization are those here illegally and their employers. And if those now here illegally decide that after legalization they want to be better paid, then we'll have a guest worker program to do "the jobs they won't do".
We went from about three million illegal immigrants being given amnesty in 1986 to, twenty years later, having eleven or twelve or, more likely no one really knows how many, million in 2006. Twenty years from now there will probably once again need to be a legalization to "bring out of the shadows" maybe forty million illegal immigrants.
Both sets of my grandparents, those that immigrated from Bohemia and those that's family were here in this country pre-revolution, homesteaded in the Oklahoma Panhandle, the only thing the government gave them was a piece of land that they had to work for years to prove up on and gain title too. But they earned their land and their citizenship without demonstration of anything but their determination to make something productive out of a piece of the prairie.
To sell legal residency for $2000.00 cheapens the effort those that came before, and legally immigrated, had to make.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Oh I see, you're still wanting to cash in
on the investment of some dead Sooners. I have ancestors who worked in America too but I only expect to get what I myself earn.

I guess I'd rather live among taco stands than among people who rant and rave about "ownership"

But where does the equation between citizenship and ownership come from? Except from the mouth of George W. Bush, I've never heard of it.

And bullshit on the employer thing. Anti-immigration is a cultural interest and very few that you've chosen to camp with will be happy without roundups and deportations. The country's track record on regulating business versus incarcerating citizens is crap, why should I expect them to be any better on this issue.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Man you're damn near as good at that internet diagnosis
thing as Bill Frist.
I've never ranted or raved but tried to explain my point of view and all I get in return is blather.
You "had ancestors that worked in America" does that mean you haven't?
I've evidently worked a lot longer than you so where am I cashing in on dead Sooners? Some "dead Sooners" referring to someones ancestors is a cheap, chickenshit shot and if that is your level of discourse, direct it at someone else. I have no more time for you.
I expect damn little from my government whether Democrat or Republican but I would expect that citizens would show more empathy toward their under and un-employed fellow citizens than to millions of illegal aliens.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I'm sorry, did I imply that you're mentally ill?
Don't see where I did that. ("internet diagnosis")

I don't think you're crazy, just more conservative than you ought to be with all your experience, and you have banded together with racists, which is less surprising considering that you hearken back to your land-grabbing ancestors.

As to my employment history, why is it even relevant? I didn't bring it up.

I like illegal aliens better than people like you, and I'm glad to say they are here to stay.
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NJ_Lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. What a brilliant analogy... Simple way of looking at it...


My God, is it really that simple...?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
44. No it's not
LOL
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PatrioticOhioLiberal Donating Member (456 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yeah, the Native Americans
might have had the same thoughts about all those Europeans who crossed the boarder and slaughtered the buffalo...but hey, who's keeping score?
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Dufaeth Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Instead of keeping house they ate all the groceries
:)
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. These little analogies are always tripe
Reminds me of a chain e-mail.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Sort of makes sense though.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. A country is nothing like a house
If my country was my house I would be allowed in every part of the country. As it is, I am confined to public space, my own property, and private spaces which I purchase access to. In this I have the same rights as illegal aliens or anyone else.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Let's see, I come to your house by mistake, thought I was some
where else, but decide I like it so I cheat lie and steal my way into your home not too mention make you sick so some of you die off (more room for my family) kill you off or stuff you into certain "rooms" where you must stay, then all the promises I made to get where I want I renege on because some one else promised, not me. Isn't that about the scenario with the Native Americans? Oh I almost forgot I also destroy everything you hold sacred because I can't see any sense in them ,they don't benefit me at all!
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. My problem with the analogy is rather than the "burglar" saying:
Edited on Wed May-24-06 11:26 AM by Jim__
"I've made all the beds and

washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all

the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when

I broke into your house)."

I think he/she might say: "You paid me to make all the beds and

wash the dishes and do the laundry and sweep the floors ..."

As for them breaking in, we hung out a sign on the front door: "Help wanted."

The whole immigration issue is more complicated than people like to pretend.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. I just don't get it...
It's not like they "made all the beds ... washed the dishes ... did the laundry ... swept the floors ... yard work" etc. all on their own. They're there because the "house owner" is paying bucks for them to do it. Not Big bucks, mind you, but better than they'd make back home.

You don't want "them" in your "house", then do your own "housework" or pay someone something they can live on.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. Eh, the "Mexicans" pay more in taxes than they use
in fact they never try to claim overpayment of taxes nor any Social Security benefits either-the ones working under fake documents that is (and yes I meant "Mexicans" as a coverall phrase)

This is complete BS. I certainly don't think that those here ILLEGALLY should get a free pass to stay but we need to find out if the law(s) are fair, work, can be complied with if they aren't/don't they need to be changed but there will be a price to pay for having broken the law.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. BRAVO
You addressed one of those issues that the bigots forget to address or don't bother to think about, that many actually use fake numbers for which taxes are paid. People rarely look to see how much of the costs are offset by those tax payments.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thanks-from my journal
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/underpants/27

According to the US Social Security Administration 75% pay payroll taxes and will contribute $6-7 BILLION in Social Security funds that they will never claim.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Not true for many
The tax argument is a total red herring. Many illegal aliens pay no taxes (except sales taxes). For example, if you are working as a day laborer, you are paid in cash. Lots of subcontractors in the construction industry pay under the table, undercutting firms that hire native-born workers/legal residents.

Whikle it is true that the undocumented do use social welfare services at lower levels than citizens/legal residents, they also impose costs on others, especially in the school system. In my city, our already struggling urban school district has had to find resources to educate children who only speak Spanish at home. There's also the cost of medical care, much of which is picked up by public hospitals, raising the cost of health care for the rest of us.

The fact that some are paying social security taxes and they will not wind up drawing social security does not eliminate the fact that massive illegal immigration hurts American workers. Of course the laws can be complied with! If these are hard working people who contribute to the tax base, then let them remain in Mexico (as per your example) which needs the revenue even more than we do. I agree with your substantive proposals--one of the first things we need to do is to make it possible for more people to immigrate legally.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. The Tax Argument is NOT a Total Red Herring!
We have no state income tax in Texas. So we've got sales tax--state & local. Which everybody pays.

Even renters pay property tax--indirectly. We used to support our schools that way. Idiot Governor shoved through a property tax reduction but no new source of funding education has appeared. I don't have kids but don't mind any part of my tax money going to schools. And I don't care about the legal status of the kids--or their parents.

Republican policies--on the state & national level--have done more to cripple health care than "illegals."

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I do not understand that argument
the "Think about all the money that leaves our economy" argument. The ironic partS are that they people saying that are usually the ones who say it is no ones business what THEY do with THEIR money (I agree) also since when is everyone in America so concerned about the communities well being?? What happened to boot straps and good old "on your own" 'Murkan incentive???

:rofl:

That just slews me everytime I hear it.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
53. I meant the argument that paying taxes entitles one to residency
It's often commented that undocumented workers pay more into Social Security than they will draw (assuming nothing changes to entitle them to draw on it at a later date), which is certainly true. Usually, when this argument is presented, the supposed Social Security crisis is also brought in, but the amount that the undocumented are paying will do little to change the "date Social Security becomes insolvent" in any event.

The point is that there's a lot more than simply paying taxes involved in citizenship. Simply paying taxes does not give anyone the right to live here illegally, which is what many folks who make the "they pay taxes" argument seem to imply. Many people who favor massive undocumented immigration will come up with some number--always huge--that supposedly represents the contribution they make to our economy and the public fisc. While I agree that the exact numbers are hard to come up with--we are dealing with an "undocumented status," after all, and so any statistics are of necessity estimates--the numbers cited by advocates of massive illegal immigration usually do not include the costs of illegal immigration. For example, while true that most people coming across simply want to work, their presence also makes it possible for a goodly number of career criminals, some of whom are fleeing Mexican justice, to come here, and these folks impose major costs.

I know renters pay property tax indirectly (I rent). While I appreciate your altruism in that you certainly don't mind money going to schools regardless of the legal status of the kids in those schools (a sentiment I'm sure most folks share), I simply meant to point out that massive illegal immigration does not impose costs evenly or fairly. Where, after all, do the undocumented choose to live? Places where the rent is low. Places where the rent is low usually also have low property values, and therefore lower revenues, and therefore often troubled schools. The extra costs of having to school the children of undocumented workers is usually paid by those school districts least able to afford it. My majority-minority school district, already having problems finding enough qualified teachers, now has to find teachers who are qualified and bilingual.

I agree with your comment in re health care--I had not meant to imply that providing care for immigrants was the main cause of our health care crisis. Obviously, that cause is the lack of a universal single-payer system. Still, it is a cost, and in many poorer communities that have struggling non-profit community hospitals, it's a cost that they can ill afford.

Anyway, the reason we are talking about this is because the republicans put it on the national agenda in order to distract from the massive failure of the Bush administration in every regard. I say we should focus on that, and get back to this issue once we have secured a Democratic Congress.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. In the big picture yes that is the goal-to make it LEGAL
but I have to contest two things in your post.

First- you mention "Many illegal aliens pay no taxes ..." I don't mean to pick at words but that is endemic of the problem-it is very hard to find any real raw data on which to base decisions. I don't think this is any accident. I was shocked to find so little information available, I thought it would be reasonable to find at least some university sociological studies but alas no (at least I didn't see the link on the post above). That seems to be the problem everyone says "Well I know about ..." or "Around here I have seen..." that is fine and dandy but is that really the picture of the situation as a whole. From what I can tell no it isn't and part of that is because there is no way of telling who is and who isn't illegal. If you only go by those who LOOK illegal (not making an accusation towards you here) maybe that is what is going on ...but are they really illegal? They could have been recruited here and have all the documentation you could want. REAL documentation.

Okay sorry for that long paragraph.

Second- that it raises all our health care costs. MMMmmm no probably not. The numero uno reason for increases in health care is increases in technology. Indigent care (uninsured) is budgeted for and accounted for in *yes* our insurance but mostly in public funding. Every time I hear that it leads me to say "So we clearly need nationalized healthcare" but that is another topic for another time.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Yes, it is partly anecdotal
The part about people in the construction industry especially--construction workers for firms that don't hire illegal workers are always complaining about being undercut.

As far as I can see, there's nothing wrong with the "around here, I have seen" mode of argumentation. It is based upon observation, which is the basis of empirical science. Where I live, in NC, there were few Latinos 20 years ago. We have two types of Latinos here now: well-educated professionals from New York (mainly) state and Mexicans (smaller numbers of Guatemalans and Hondurans) who do blue-collar work. Almost all of the latter are illegal, and outnumber the former by 20 to 1. I know this by checking the voter rolls, and by knocking on doors during the last election.

Me: Hello, I'd like to encourage you to vote for John Kerry.
Resident: I like Kerry. But I cannot vote.
Me: Thanks for your support! Here's a button. Want some bumper stickers?

So, here at least, in my neighborhood, if you look (or, rather, sound) like a foreigner, you probably are one, and if you are a Latin American foreigner, you are probably here illegally. I used to live in CA, and I understand you cannot pick out who is foreign just by race, but there are other things--dress, mannerisms, accent, height, weight, whether you have a Mexican or some other foreign flag attached to your vehicle, etc.

Indigent care does come from the public fisc, in the case of public hospitals, whether directly or indirectly. The main reason for the increase in the cost of health care is the cost of providing a life of luxury to doctors, who feel that, after all they have been through, they deserve not one, not two, but three Mercedeses. We don't have a system of health care in this country, we have a system for providing luxury cars to doctors--lots of people have no health care, but all (ok, almost all) doctors have luxury cars. But, yes, that is the topic of another post.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. They aren't eligible for social services
and the $6 BILLION they pay into SS more than offsets the cost of educating them. (Yes, education is the only tax payer funded program they receive).
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Was it postmarked from "KKK"?
More xenophobic bullshit.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. And you fired back an angry request for No More Right Wing Spam!
(Old, rancid spam, at that.)

Didn't you?

(Why is this tripe always so badly formatted?)



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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Yeah, RW spam is what it is.
The bad formatting comes from being passed around from e-mail platform to webmail platform, getting new line breaks each time.

(And not being re-formatted because spam forwarders tend to be computer illiterate in my experience...)

Nice little subliminal promotion of the "ownership society" in this one. I think a lot of them come out of political think tanks.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
28. Change the subject
It's funny that these e-mails are being sent out just now, just as the Republicans are trying to make an issue of immigration so that they can distract the country from the debacle that their regime has been.

If illegal immigration is such a pressing issue, why have Republicans done nothing about it during the nearly six years that they have had unified one-party control of the government? (OK, except for the Senate during the first two years, but you get the drift.)

I oppose illegal immigration (and favor legal immigration), but it's a problem we can talk about later, after we take back Congress. The fact that the Republicans want to put this on the national agenda should make us suspicious.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. gosh I wonder how many times this nasty little bit of crap will get posted
I'm betting at least once or twice more in the next week or two.
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eugene5debs Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Won't be relevant for much longer
That analogy will not apply in the future, when instead of a "house" there will be one huge dormatory.

http://www.staggeron.org/universe.html#amero
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. K & R
that about sums it up!!
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Iblis Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
39. My answer to this analogy? Four little words...
What

Would

Jesus

Do?





Really. Seriously. How can they even argue against that, considering how big a Christian people that write these kinda things profess to be.

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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Jesus would build a wall
he was big on wall building. He would also aim center mass. You can look it up.

Welcome to DU :hi:
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Iblis Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thank you. Although I've been around for a bit...
Edited on Wed May-24-06 03:20 PM by Iblis
I mostly lurk, but pop up now and then; which explains my low number of posts.

thanks again.

L
PS Nothing wrong at all with Center Mass. I'm big on the Pelvic Girdle myself, though...at least that's where my shots usually end up.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
46. Here is a better analogy:
The city you live in has taken possession of your neighbor's house. He still gets to live there but he doesn't own it. And then he loses his job when the city also takes possession of his employer's property and the employer goes out of business.

So to feed his kids, he breaks into your house. You threaten to press charges and send him to jail, so he decides to picket to get attention and help for his family.
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