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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:00 AM
Original message
Illegal Immigration a personal story
We all have our opinions about allowing more than 11 million illegal immigrants to stay in our country without question. Some of us want to toss them out, some want them arrested and some want to embrace them.

Choosing an opinion to have can be hard for someone like me. On the one hand I strongly believe that our government and in turn our citizens should be fair and treat everyone fairly. Our rules and laws should be applied equally to all people living here. Thus if the law is being broken then those breaking the law should be forced to bend to the rule of law.

On the other hand there are so many who have started families here and are hardworking and contributing to the well being of our country that to force them out would leave U.S. born children to live in another country or live without one or both parents.

Due to the fact that our immigration laws have been applied very loosely (or not at all in some cases) for so many years there will need to be a very thoughtful if not enlightened look at all sides of this issue before a new law is made manifest.

I have two nephews in law who are undocumented workers here. One from Peru and one from Mexico. There are 3 children involved, all born on American soil and whose mothers are U.S. citizens.

If I support the rule of law then these men will be forced out of the country and may never see their children again. If I support amnesty then the diligence of those who have come here legally will appear to be a sham. Why would anyone become citizens legally if setting up housekeeping and remaining undetected for a few years is all that need be done to stay?

The predicament is personal not only to me but to my family and to millions of others in similar circumstances. There is no way to change the past, we have only now to make changes that will in turn become our future.

I wish for a bright future for all of us, may those in the position to decide be wise, prudent and most of all fair.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. but have you factored in
the gov't's complicity in illegal immigration - and their ineptitude (?deliberate?) in facilitating legal immigration - (not to mention their involvement in policies that have contributed to the intolerable living conditions in other countries)? Doesn't this shift your thinking a bit?

Consider: this country has ALWAYS turned a "blind eye" to illegal immigration when the economy is good and jobs are plentiful and workers few; then, when the economy starts to sour - they "crack down" on illegal immigrants. We profit off of them when we need them and kick them to the curb when we don't want them anymore.

Consider: the process to becoming a legal immigrant is fraught with difficulty (it was bad enough BEFORE 9/11 - NOW it's a complete nightmare!!) Unless you have plenty of $$, TIME, a sponsor, and someone to help you navigate the complexities - and inanities - of the system - you can pretty much forget legal immigration in the foreseeable future. By then, your kids may well have starved to death.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. If they marry American citizens
aren't they then American citizens?
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. No. Citizenship is not conferred automatically
upon marrying an American citizen. There is still the naturalization process to go through.

For example, I'm an American and my husband is British. He did not automatically become an American citizen when he married me. In fact, he doesn't want to be an American citizen, although he probably could. Our children have dual citizenship.

We have an American friend with a Swedish wife. She was finally granted the right to reside in the United States after years of struggling with the red tape of the immigration authorities (who wanted to deport her), but despite living on American soil for more than 20 years and being married to an American, she is neither a citizen nor has she ever been granted a work permit.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Interesting.
Thanks for the information.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. No it is not - legally they must apply
I-129f fiance visa and I-130 spouse visa are family based immigration programs. Both must under go criminal back ground checks, medical check up, and are subject to consular review.

After 2 years conditional status (married, living together) they must then apply to lift conditional status where the immigrant will then recieve a 10 year permenent status green card.

After 3 years living in this country, No arrest, No State Aid, they may apply for citizenship
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. and they wait for years to get in
me son married an Russian in Jan 2006.......the immigration dept wrote and said it would 999 days plus for her to gain entry to the US...........they have filed pages and pages of forms.........all kinds of checks........yet......these Illegals get to stay in the US...........walk work visit and have free reign of everything the US has to offer(especially after popping out kids)..........

this is not one damn bit fair to the other people waiting to get in legally.........
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No it does not take years he needs to file K-3 visa
Edited on Fri May-19-06 08:45 AM by FreakinDJ
The K-3 visa (1996 Life Act) was designed to reduce the wait time for the I-130 marriage based visa.

He must fill out another petition packet using the I-129f form and include the I-797 (NOA#1 notice of action) from the I-130 he filed and submit it to the National Visa Center in Chicago. Current wait time is less then 90 days

Refer your son to this website
http://www.hinigugma.com/FillableForms/k-1-I-129f-visa-...
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. done that......lawyer did that........yes it does take years!
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Bluedog are you spreading Mis-information on purpose
It does not take years to gain access to the United States for K-1 and K-3 visa recipiannts.

Here is the USCIS visa processing schedules website

https://egov.immigration.gov/cris/jsps/ptimes.jsp

Look up I-129f/K-3 visa processing times at the National visa Center. Currently it is less then 90 days.

If you guys hired an attorney that told you other wise you need to get your money back. I have been running a visa information website for years and we HAVE NEVER had a petition go longer then 8 months before entry to the United States was granted

Of course it takes years to get Citizenship. That is 1 of the conditions. Petitioners must LIVE in the United States for 3 years.

Any thing else I can clear up for you Bluedog??????
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'll ask my son for letter from the Immigration dept.........
and that should settle this matter.........I know what he told me............999 days plus........
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Go ahead and do that...But while you arer at it
You should also suggest to him he file a K-3 visa

Yes the letter from the local service center does say 999 days to process the I-130 spouse visa. He has to file another visa petition with the National Visa Center in Chicago to envoke the K-3 visa program that will have his wife an approved visa petition in 90 days or less.

From the 999 days I suspect he is filing with the California Service Center in Laguna Niquel

Honestly if he has paid an attorney and this guy has not advised him of the K-3 visa program your son should be asking for his money back.

If he needs information on filing the K-3 visa he should check this site

http://www.hinigugma.com /
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. You have no freaking idea what you are talking about.
Edited on Sat May-20-06 09:29 AM by BooScout
Have YOU personally ever been through it? I have and she's dead on accurate. Frankly the Government Immigration site is a farce. Times are wrong 90 percent of the time.

Why Bluedog's son is most likely experiencing problems is because of where his spouse/fiance is from. The incidences of fraud coming from Russian spouses/fiances is rampant and the BCIS takes an inordinately LONG time to approve a visa if they ever do.

Oh btw, that stupid processing site you listed was saying 90 days when my fiance (now husband) came thru the system. It ACTUALLY took us about 7 months and only then after the intervention of BCIS worker who took pity on us and several other couples going thru the same thing. My senator and my congressperson were worthless to assist us.

Anything I can clear up for you?

JFC I hate people who think they know every god damned thing because they found it on the fucking internet and it says so. :eyes:
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. i worked with a lady that just got her citizenship
she`s married and has two kids that were born in the usa and it took her over 7 years to become "legal". what really struck me is that she now knows more about our country`s government and principals than 99% of the people that did`t want her here..
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. The citizenship exam
from time to time an enterprising reporter takes it downtown and ahem, has native born take it... mind you it is both tragic and hilarious
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. This is true. My mother had to take the exam and so did my
husband. Anytime I wanted to know something about our government and history, all I had to do is ask them. I certainly didn't learn what they knew in school here.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Is there a reason they're not on a path to citizenship?
They sound like good candidates.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Fear of "La migra"
They don't feel safe and would rather hide than apply. For some reason (a little sarcasm here) they don't trust the system and they know they've broken the law. It's sad.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Haven't they made a CHOICE to remain illegal, then?
Edited on Fri May-19-06 11:18 PM by MercutioATC
I understand their reasoning, but they

1) Chose to enter this country illegally and,

2) are aware of the process to gain legal residency and, perhaps, citizenship but they refuse to avail themselves of it.



I have a really hard time sympathizing with those decisions.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well
I can't speak for them or really address it except to say that perhaps they'll apply for citizenship. I really don't know though. I don't interact with them much because of the physical distance between us. I would encourage that as well.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. I hope they do.
I have absolutely nothing against people becoming citizens...it's just those that circumvent the law that I take issue with. If they have families and are doing well here, I don't see why they wouldn't be productive members of our country.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
18. Is the "wet foot, dry foot" going to be rescinded?
No, I thought not.... all of the anti-immigration people focus on Hispanics from Mexico, etc.... not Cuba. And, not the totally hypocritical "wet foot, dry foot" law.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I actually don't know the term
"wet foot, dry foot". I do realize that people are threatened by "others", afraid they will take something from them. I hope that this is resolved soon. It is very painful for me.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Here is another personal story from a letter of a student
that I have known for a few years.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Maestro/3
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. That is VERY sad, heartbreaking in fact.
I grew up in El Paso. Back then no one complained about Mexican citizens crossing the border. I was bilingual as I was raised by a Mexican citizen. My mother had to work and the rates my surrogate mother charged were nothing. I was raised on homemade tortillas and beans and love them to this day, (my comfort food). I was cared for and looked after, in fact I liked my surrogate mother more than my real mom. I was taught 2nd and 3rd grade math by my surrogate and we would have long talks at night about how she missed her kids. I would play at her feet while she listened to spanish radio and ironed. I loved her very much.

I hate to see the way this is playing out because like you I am not threatened.

I truly liked reading your entry, I wish I'd seen it before it was archived.
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Scoody Boo Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. Here is my personal story.
I was born in Mexico. I was a "mistake" that my mother made while young. For Grandmother was my "mom." I was supposedly the youngest of the family. The reality was, who I thought was my oldest sister was my mom. She got married to an American and moved to the US, leaving me in Mexico.

Finally the truth was told and I came to the US to be with my real mom at the age of 14.

I always wanted to be an American and became one when I graduated high school. I had a chance to be on the National Taekwondo team representing Mexico and I refused even though I was still a citizen of that country.

I am an American. I have worn the Uniform of my country and twice ducked bullets on foriegn lands under the US Flag. I was born in Mexico but my complete loyalties rest here.

I am not thrilled about any amnesty program but I can live with it. BUT, if because of fear or whatever reason, a person does not take advantage of being able to achieve legal status and makes a choice to remain illegal, they have made a choice to be a nonentity and have only the rights a nonentity deserves.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. My reason for supporting an amnesty for the ones who are
Edited on Sat May-20-06 11:33 AM by Cleita
already here is that our laws aren't keeping up with our needs. Those who have been here for years and are working and raising families in an otherwise law-abiding manner are victims of our system. Our quotas weren't high enough to meet the migrant workers needed by our economy here. So these people couldn't wait for the lottery which is random and basically unfair.

Also, many people seem to think that immigrants wait in an sort of imaginary queue. This isn't true. Every year the INS randomly selects those immigrants who can enter legally from the applicants in a lottery until they meet the quotas for that year. Some who only recently applied might get selected and others who have been on the list for even a decade get left behind.

In the meantime shortages of labor in various industries mostly agriculture spur the demand and supply nature of unauthorized immigration into this country, with many employers actually recruiting from behind the border and transporting the immigrants here. Usually, there is no offer of a return trip so those immigrants are left here when they are no longer needed.

So considering the way we do immigration, it seems you should be able to figure out what is morally right for you.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I don't quite understand that last sentence
I would like to see people treated fairly. I know very little about our immigration laws, (much less than I thought I did).

I don't want to see people treated unfairly, on any side on any border. Do I have the answer for others, no I don't. I would like to see fair wages and integration for all of us and those people who would like to make the US their home welcomed.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Why don't you understand the last sentence?
All it says is that when you get your information together about immigration you should be able to form your own opinion. I don't want to influence what you think about this. All I'm doing is passing on information that I have and how I came to the conclusions that I think are morally right. Your conclusion could be different than mine.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Wrong post.
Edited on Sat May-20-06 12:55 PM by Cleita
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. I have many freinds who lost jobs to cheap labor illegal immigrants
The illegals come in here and undercut wages and steal jobs from citizens. That one fact alone makes me the way I am. I understand everyone has a sad story. Everyone . Ive heard enough about the problems of illegals. Lets hear stories from citizens who have lost their lives and families over this illegal invasion.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. What sector are your job-losing friends in?
And yes, "let's hear stories from citizens who lost their lives and families over this illegal invasion."

Waiting...
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-20-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Construction.
But any field they enter gets undercut.
So youre denying that anyone has been hurt by the illegals? That tells me alot.
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