The Hidden Cost of Illegal Immigration: ID THEFT -->

[Dr. Jones]

Identity theft is yet another ramification of illegal immigration. It is particularly a problem in the border states. A good friend of mine had his own identity stolen after a car accident with an illegal, and it caused all manner of headaches. Once you've had your ID stolen, it's difficult to recover.

This is not to demean illegals - I believe that the majority are indeed here to work hard and raise their families. However, there are in fact a number of them who have engaged in this kind of identity theft, just as there are a number of American citizens who have engaged in the same - and the idea is to figure out how to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

If you've ever had your identity stolen, you know exactly what I'm talking about. It's a total nightmare - a time-consuming, endless exercise in frustration and heartache.

Note: The word "illegals" does not carry with it any implication of race or ethnicity. The fact is, individuals from a vareity of ethnicities and races have crossed the border into our country illegally.

In the noisy immigration debate raging in Washington, there is one voice NOT being heard. The voice of identity theft victims.

Behind many of the nation's millions of undocumented workers are someone else's documents. To get a job, illegal immigrants need a Social Security number and they often borrow one. As victim Melody Millet is fond of saying, U.S. citizens are being forced to share their identities with undocumented immigrants to give corporate America a steady supply of cheap labor.

Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don't know it. It is the dirty little secret of the immigration issue: By not dealing directly with the undocumented worker situation, the U.S. government is actually encouraging identity theft. In fact, one can argue that the origins of the identity theft epidemic can be traced to the immigration issue.

Source: http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html

[Warren Stupidity]

1. Lets find everything we can blame on mexicans! nt.

[Dr. Jones]

9. That's not the view shared by many who have seen this problem...

It's not about blaming Mexicans or any other race/ethnicity, it's about seeing a problem and finding out what we can do to solve it.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. Its a joke son.

I find your obsession with the horror of mexicans illegaly inside the borders of the land we stole from them amusing.

[Dr. Jones]

16. This topic is in regards to how we can prevent ID theft.

And it is in fact true that some illegals have stolen some people's identities. How can we prevent ID theft in general? And what can we do to prevent ID theft perpetrated by illegal immigrants?

[Ms. Clio]

12. I think you need to take your crusade to the IRS, and stop bothering us

You do know that the IRS issues perfectly legal Taxpayer ID numbers to those undocumented residents who request them, right? And that the IRS will collect taxes from undocumented residents, and not notify the INS of their status?

Perhaps you should invest your energies into solving the terrible problem of illegals paying taxes here -- imagine that! The sheer effrontery of those people!

[Mountainman]

20. Bull Shit! You will find any and all excuse to back up your fear of

social change. It's a lot like the scientist with his mind made up then goes looking for reasons to support his opinion.

[Richard Steele]

2. So IDtheft ORIGINATED with the immigration issue? ROFL!

What are you gonna blame on them next?

Potholes? The lack of TP in public restrooms?
That episode of TREK we all disliked?

I can't wait to find out.

[Dr. Jones]

6. According to the article, yes, it started with illegal immigration, BUT...

is that really true? That's up for debate.

[Richard Steele]

35. Don't you mean "Some People Say" it's up for debate?

Nice way to wuss out on your original declaration- very FAUXvian of you.

Kinda like if I didn't actually SAY this,
but I just offered it up as a discussion topic:

"Dr. Jones isn't really a Democrat;
he's actually just a WhoreTroll who gets paid
by the post to keep starting threads about immigration,
as the RePubs grasp at straws to distract the citizens
from the REAL issues of the day."

Hey, you can't hit alert;
I'm not personally calling you a feeble-minded troll
who's motives are laughably transparent...

I'm just trying to start a conversation; I certainly don't
feel obligated to stand by my accusations any more than
you stand by yours.

Quid Pro Quo, and so forth, KnowhutImean?

So, are you REALLY the lamest sack of FreeperShit to ever crawl
past the Thousnd-Post mark?

IT'S open to DEBATE!

[Richard Steele]

36. OH, never mind.

I finally get pissed enough to compose
a really SNARKY response to this AssHat...

...and he was tombstoned earlier in the day.

Does my "response time" suck, or do the DU Mods ROCK?
I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

[Ms. Clio]

37. Omigod it's finally gone???

Enjoy your dirtnap, "Dr." Jones.



You are a loser, a liar, and an idiot.

[Ms. Clio]

38. oh, and this was fantastico!

[Richard Steele]

43. I do have my moments, when the spirit is upon me....

But then it goes away- it always does.

[SidDithers]

3. Ah yes, the daily Dr. Jones illegal immigration thread...nt

Sid

[Ms. Clio]

4. no more FAIR, CIS, Malkin, Minutemen, or fables

getting hard up for material.

[Dr. Jones]

5. Not really. The info is out there.

It's just that some irrationally discredit the source just because it doesn't line up with their own thoughts and perceptions of illegal immigration. Therefore, they discount it altogether, even though many credible sources were presented to them.

In this case, it is very true that identity theft has been an unfortunate ramification of illegal immigration. That's fact.

[Ms. Clio]

8. All of those are rightwing sources, so they are NOT CREDIBLE

in this or any other universe.

I know two people who have struggled with this problem, and in neither case was the perpetrator a non-English speaking person. There's far more to genuine "identity theft" than simply using a false SS# to apply for a job, and I doubt very many Mexican farm workers are sophisticated enough to attempt it.

[Dr. Jones]

10. Is MSNBC a "Rightwing" source? That's where this article came from...

sorry, but that argument is very weak. One simply can't pass off these kind of articles as rightwing when clearly they are coming from non-partisan credible sources. But alas, as I've said before, if it doesn't fit one's desire to believe that which is not true, that person is prone to discredit anything.

My cat jumped up on the counter the other day and started eating my beans and rice. Is that rightwing? It happened, and I witnessed it. Nonetheless, that dang cat got sprayed with a significatnt stream of water for that one.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. MSRNC? Well yes it is. nt.

[Dr. Jones]

15. Well it's not FOX if that's what you're getting at...

don't make me laugh!

[Ms. Clio]

14. Try to keep up

I specifically pointed out the discredited rightwing sources you previously used, and noted that this was your attempt to find something more "mainstream."

[Dr. Jones]

17. This thread is not about my PREVIOUS sources. It's about ID Theft.

What do you think we can do to curb ID theft, and how can we go about preventing illegal immigrants from perpetrating these crimes?

Focus, Ms. Clio, focus. I only mentioned ONE source in my OP.

[Ms. Clio]

21. History, Dr. Jones

Your sources are your history here, and it's not been very impressive.

You're not truly here to "solve the problem of identity theft" or any other "problem" you will subsequently link with "illegals."

[Dr. Jones]

26. How judgmental of you. Can we please get back on topic?

How would you resolve this issue of ID theft in general, and how would you discourage illegals from perpetrating these crimes?

[Ms. Clio]

27. no, because it's an utterly asinine topic

and not really the point of this thread.

[Mountainman]

22. (I don't like cats. ) I saw a cat jumping on the counter. Cats should be

taken off the face of the earth, they jump on counters and eat your food! (There that will help get rid of cats just as soon as I get enough people to agree with me.)

[Dr. Jones]

28. Try living with one!

Jumping up on the counter and eating our food is but one of the many joys of cat ownership. Stinky carpets from the cat mistaking the carpet for its litterbox is another. But overall, the cat can be fun to own. I enjoy trying to make our cat hiss by chasing her around.

But I digress.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Yet another great argument for Amnesty from the Doctor.

If, the "illegal" immigrants were made legal, they could have their own identity, SS numbers, etc, and not have to bother trying to impersonate blond people named Thorvald or Sven.

[Dr. Jones]

19. At least that's a well-thought-out, credible argument.

Although I do wonder if legalizing that many illegals would encourage even more illegal immigration into our country once word got out that America is legalizing illegal immigrants. Our hospitals, schools, and state and local governments simply could not sustain that kind of population explosion.

Secure the borders first, and then consider such a thing.

[Mountainman]

24. Listen, illegals pay taxes see, social security, federal and state income

tax, sales tax. Our social systems are suffering because we spend the greatest portion of our tax revenue fighting a bogus war on terror which makes the likes of Halliburton rich.

[Dr. Jones]

29. Not true that ALL illegals pay taxes, but you make a good point about war.

Indeed this "war" has drained our budgets and siphoned money off where it could have been used to actually (cough cough) help people.

[Mountainman]

18. Jesus fucking God, Out of 11 to 12 million illegals how many steal ID's ?

It could also be white people with a business selling false ID's to illegals. ID theft will go on whether there are illegals or not.

Nice try.

[Dr. Jones]

30. From my OP:

However, there are in fact a number of them who have engaged in this kind of identity theft, just as there are a number of American citizens who have engaged in the same - and the idea is to figure out how to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

Nice try?

[Ms. Clio]

31. It's completely deceptive

"a number of them"; well, HOW MANY? Let's have the hard numbers, so we can see how many Mexican lettuce pickers are using false SS#s, not just to apply for a job, but to actually steal an American's identity and inflict the kind of financial damage of that sort of crime.

It's completely vague and meaningless BULLSHIT.



(typo edit)

[Dr. Jones]

32. What is difficult for me to believe is that so many want to

completely ignore any hint that illegals are anything other than hero-martyrs who are ALL perfectly innocent and who are not "really" in our country illegally, not "really" usurping American middle class jobs, and not "really" using inflammatory rhetoric against the American people. It is this disconnect that really keeps this debate alive.

This refusal to acknowledge any kind of REALITY of illegal immigration has me baffled. Personally I'm growing weary of battling not a realistic viewpoint, but an idealistic fantasy. And I fear that as long as people continue to believe this fantasy, we will never come up with a solution.

[Ms. Clio]

33. do you actually believe that "illegals" are usurping "middle class jobs?"

I want to see your CREDIBLE evidence of that. It has been repeatedly pointed out to you that American jobs are threatened by multinational corporations who owe allegiances to no nation, rather than the impoverished people they exploit.

And again, you claim that "they" are using "inflammatory rhetoric against the American people," but your only evidence to support this argument is that many protesters, including legal residents and American citizens, are asking for some form of "amnesty." That word, apparently, constitutes "inflammatory rhetoric" to you.

Don't worry. I think we will manage to come up with a solution without you.

[Ms. Clio]

34. Oh, and thanks for proving my point

this thread was never about the horrors of identity theft at all.

[pitohui]

40. only the ones who want to work

so i guess basically yeah that's all of them except the kids

sure they don't personally hold you up and rob you themselves, there's a black market for all that, serviced by organized crime

wake up and smell the coffee

everyone who howls for big business to be fined for hiring "undocumenteds" is howling for more ID theft, of course every "undocumented" working has plenty of documents -- they just don't happen to be their original identity

[dogday]

23. My Son fights in an illegal war and

gas is at 3.00 a gallon. Our government is spying on it own citizens.. Our President and his staff have broken numerous laws and you are worried about illegal immigration theft identity?

There are much more important issues to be focused on... If you put as much effort into ending this war as you do these illegal immigration threads, who knows what you could do...

But you just keep on worrying about your identify now and pushing this wedge issue ya hear???

[pitohui]

41. when your identity is stolen

and you have to pay thousands in extra social security tax for a job you didn't hold or get any pay for, don't come crying here

if people don't value privacy, if they don't value their identity, if they can't set boundaries or borders, then it is damn hard to feel sorry for them when the inevitable happens

i guess if your country's borders are not worth defending, then why should your own identity be worth defending, so at least there is consistency there, but let me ask you this -- is there NOTHING, ever, worth fighting for?

[dogday]

44. There are things worth fighting for

There are things worth fighting for, I am saying right now, there are greater things.. We have been allowing this for years and years and all of a sudden we say enough is enough...

This is a wedge issue and you have fallen for it...

To bring this administration and it's corrupt associates to justice is the first thing on the agenda.. To stop an illegal war is the first thing on the agenda.

As long as my Son fights in this illegal lie of a war, that is worth fighting for.. A real life is worth fighting for... Some things are more important, and my Son is more important than any of those things that you mentioned....

[UTUSN]

25. A relief thread below, relief from these daily Minuteman threads

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ("Minuteman rally live on C-SPAN")

[pitohui]

39. it isn't that well hidden

who hasn't known someone to have their identity stolen by an illegal alien?

the fact remains that if they come here to work, well, they need documents to work, they need a social security number, and it might just be yours, i don't care how wonderful and well intentioned someone is, when they break the law to enter this country, when they assume a false identity to take a job, they are breaking the law and stealing, and me, i'm not a bit ashamed to say that i DO demean criminal behavior

i have heard of people in snarls because "they" didn't pay any social security on some construction job or another, of course they didn't pay, they didn't hold the job, some illegal alien did -- and yet all the social security folks know is a person w. this number was reported to be in this job, so where is the money?

there is a storefront in vegas -- hell, probably more than one for all i know -- which openly advertises on its building that it will create new documents for "check-cashing" on the spot, er, that's nice, as a LEGAL citizen, i can't get documents on the spot, to send away for a real birth certificate, to apply for a real passport, to pass a real driver's exam -- you know what? that takes time, money, and proof, but be hispanic and suddenly they'll manufacture that for you on the spot and nobody shuts it down?

identity manufacture and theft is big, big, big business, make no mistake

and i bet 90 percent of the people profiting off this are GOP, they are the ones who want cheap labor and they have attorneys to do the dirty work if THEIR precious identities are ever stolen

[Freedom_Aflaim]

42. Yup. Illegals frequently steal someone SSN number

and use that to gain employment.

Its not uncommon for entire familys to use one stolen SSN number.

I guess once you break laws while entering the country, breaking laws regarding forgery is just as easy.

[Moderator]

45. locking....

The author is no longer with us.