Were people who voted for bush really THAT stupid?

[johnnie]

His current approval ratings are at 31% and even lower in certain other aspects of his presidency. A mere 18 months ago George supposedly gathered over 50% of the popular vote and his numbers have been falling ever since. In November of 2004 the gas prices were already on the rise, the war in Iraq was a complete failure, the economy was stumbling, there were already talks of illegal activity in the administration and it seemed obvious that the pendulum was still in the downward swing.

How come we here at DU predicted everything that was coming our way, but yet there were a little over 50% of the population that turned a blind eye? Is loyalty to your party or the need to keep your ego fed really the right reason to sell your country down the river? Or is it because the majority of people who voted to keep these people in charge are really that stupid that they didn't see what direction we were heading?

I have no problem telling the people I know who supported this administration "I told you so" when they come to me complaining about the war, gas prices, the multiple indictments and the continual down slide of their comfort of living. It is hard for me to feel compassion for them while they are on the verge of losing everything they worked for because the cost of living has been rising at a much quicker rate than the money they are getting from their employers.

It is hard for me to understand why many Americans take their right to vote so flippantly that they would rather have their team win than to do what is right for this country, the future and their fellow citizens. Many people go to the polls and vote for their party only and unfortunately, the Republican party has been hi-jacked and turned inside out by a group of people that don't give a shit about the people of their party, but care only for their friends and their bank accounts.

So, why were the people who voted for George so disillusioned? Where they really that stupid or did they just want their team to win no matter what the consequences where? I am wondering if any of them have learned a lesson.

[wisteria]

1. I don'\t think most were stupid, just scared and mislead and gullible. n/t

[marmar]

4. I agree. The gullibility of many people about so many things...

continues to shock me. The terra alterts, and so and and so on - lots of people still buy that crap wholesale.

[johnnie]

7. A quick definition per Webster Online

Stupid:

1 a : slow of mind : OBTUSE b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent
or careless manner c : lacking intelligence or reason : BRUTISH
2 : dulled in feeling or sensation : TORPID <still stupid from the sedative>
3 : marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : SENSELESS
4 a : lacking interest or point b : VEXATIOUS, EXASPERATING


I think your observations fall in there somewhere.

[leftchick]

2. Cognitive Dissonance

http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm


Cognitive Dissonance

Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon which refers to the discomfort felt at a discrepancy between what you already know or believe, and new information or interpretation. It therefore occurs when there is a need to accommodate new ideas, and it may be necessary for it to develop so that we become "open" to them. Neighbour (1992) makes the generation of appropriate dissonance into a major feature of tutorial (and other) teaching: he shows how to drive this kind of intellectual wedge between learners' current beliefs and "reality".


Beyond this benign if uncomfortable aspect, however, dissonance can go "over the top", leading to two interesting side-effects for learning:

if someone is called upon to learn something which contradicts what they already think they know — particularly if they are committed to that prior knowledge — they are likely to resist the new learning. Even Carl Rogers recognised this. Accommodation is more difficult than Assimilation, in Piaget's terms.
and—counter-intuitively, perhaps—if learning something has been difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating enough, people are less likely to concede that the content of what has been learned is useless, pointless or valueless. To do so would be to admit that one has been "had", or "conned".

[johnnie]

5. "To do so would be to admit that one has been "had", or "conned".

It seems that people are admitting to it now.

[leftchick]

10. yes and there is a term for that as well

That I think fits this .....

<snip>


The term "paradigm shift" has found uses in other contexts, representing the notion of a major change in a certain thought-pattern — a radical change in personal beliefs, complex systems or organizations, replacing the former way of thinking or organizing with a radically different way of thinking or organizing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

[johnnie]

12. Maybe...

But I am thinking the term we are looking for is "dwindling bank accounts". :)

[leftchick]

22. that is for sure!

:)

[durrrty libby]

3. I believe they were motivated by fear and bigotry, so

Yes ...…they are that stupid

[Minnesota Libra]

6. No they weren't stupid they were focusing strictly on the faith stuff.....

....and simply chose to ignore everything else. Why? Everything else wasn't hitting their pocket book at the time and now their pocketbooks are being directly affected. So now the neocons/fundies of the world suddenly feel justified in forgetting all that "faith based" stuff in favor of their purses.

I love getting :sarcasm: with the really die-hard fundies/neocons by saying something like, "Oh, but I thought everyone viewed Bush as the best thing since god himself. So let me get this straight, the faith based stuff is out the window in favor of a flattening pocketbook? Wow, talk about knowing one's priorities.":wtf:

OMG, they give me a dirty:shrug: look for that kind of thing but they have no come back either.:woohoo:

[johnnie]

8. But see...

I would call that stupid. As I previously stated, many here at DU saw what was coming and it didn't seem to take a political analyst to figure it out.

[cantstandbush]

15. BINGO!!! We have winner!!!! n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. Most people have a sheep gene

They want to be led. They want to surrender resposibility to other people for significant decisions. It is why money managers and stock brokers are able to tell them what to do with their money. It is why preachers and televangelists are able to tell them what to believe. And it is why they make seemingly irrational political decisions. Simply put, they bought into something that somebody was selling them. And they didn't question the sales pitch. It sounded so good. Why bother?

[babylonsister]

11. IMO, we was robbed. He never won nothin'. nt

[johnnie]

14. You just might be right

But at a 31% approval rating, that still leaves a small percentage that have changed their minds. And I am also thinking that some of that 31% are only answering positively because they have yet to come to terms with the fact that they were swindled.

[babylonsister]

28. I didn't mean to make light of your post, johnnie.

I do think people are finally 'seeing the light'. We've seen testaments to that on DU for awhile now. Finally! That 30% might not change too much; that's the solid base that will never vote for a Dem, and can't open their eyes to the fact that their savior isn't all they thought he was cracked up to be.

[johnnie]

34. Oh, I knew you weren't making light

What you said is probably the truth, but I just don't think that the popular votes were a full 20% off. It's the fact that so many people are turning their backs to this guy now and it has only been 18 months.

[Toucano]

51. But that's not the question.

Fraud or not, win or lose, MILLIONS of people actually voted for the bastard.

The question is, ARE THEY STUPID?

[stubtoe]

62. They certainly DID something stupid!

[BlueJazz]

13. I find it hard to fathom that people didn't look at his past "Record".

I mean..He failed at everything he tried to do (in his past.

Christ, if I were going to start a Corporation, do you think I would
choose someone with a complete, total record of Failure??

[johnnie]

19. Makes ya wonder..huh?

These people who are known to be in the party of corporations, profits and big business vote in a man who couldn't keep *any* of his past businesses a success. Hell, he would probably tank a paper route if given the chance.

[cushla_machree]

67. And he called himself the CEO president! n/t

[emulatorloo]

16. Reasons Bush voters gave me: 1. "He'll do better next time!"

"He will be more moderate, you can tell he has learned his lesson!"

2. "You can't change presidents in the middle of a WAR!"

3. "Bush needs to clean up the mess he made in Iraq"

4. "He is so genuine. Not all slick like John Kerry!"

5. "I just *******LIKE******* him!"

6. "Democrats won't protect me from terrorists!"

[Vickers]

20. Next time you talk with a George voter, ask them what they thought

of the debates.

I bet less than 5% of the people I have talked to who admit that they voted for George actually watched the 2004 presidential debates.

Those folks should be tied to a fucking chair and be forced to watch that goddam mess.

[johnnie]

21. Funny you say that

During the debates I would ask the people in my department if they watched "last night". They never did, and they also voted for bush. It was pretty disturbing.

[LiberalFighter]

60. They shouldn't be force to watch the debate... They should be FORCE to...

watch all of the dumb things he has said since he was born. Over and over and over and over.



On edit...

And then declared insane and committed to an insane asylum in Iraq.

[zalinda]

17. I talked to someone recently who STILL thought that Saddam

had something to do with 9/11. But it turns out she never votes, and this is a 40ish gal. How sad.

zalinda

[coffeenap]

18. "I don't want to believe..."

The mainstream culture of the US and other western countries is to look for a leader and then trust that leader. This is the basis of Christianity and in its purest form is a fine way to live (since the leader is a noble one). The problem comes when one transfers that perspective to a person (or group) that is not trustworthy. Everyone I have spoken to who voted for * has started their explanation of their choice by saying, " I don't WANT to believe that my government would....".

By following a leader, they are free to live their daily lives in relative peace. They assume their leaders will represent their values and act accordingly. It takes a lot, mostly some personal experience like losing a loved one in the war or losing their own job to outsourcing, to get them to wake up from the dream.

I wish they could see it before they experience their own unnecessary personal losses and empathize with others.

[marions ghost]

35. yes u r right

it's not hard to get people to just stick with what they think is a "known" entity --like buying the same brand of coffee. Easy road in this hectic world. And actually we SHOULD be able to trust that the govt is working in our best interests. We all should.

Right, the idea that the government would try to sell the grassroots Repugs down the river too--was the furthest thing from their minds. SO much easier to believe that "It's all good." Fine for Dems to NOT get anything they want much ever, but the Boosh supporters believed that the Republicans were truly looking out for them. Not stupid so much as naive, too trusting. You don't have to be stupid to be taken in by clever lies and a monolithic media. Just fearful and naive, and somewhat mean-spirited.

Americans, particularly Republicans, also have a lot of irrational "team loyalty"-- which is to their detriment at times. It promotes rigidity and prevents flexibility. Feels good, though.

I guess God WAS on their side == as it seems that George Dubya and Co. were actually sent from God to knock them out of their comfort zone right about now. A true gift from heaven. Maybe they can atone and save their mortal souls from eternal damnation now.

[partylessinOhio]

23. Yes, some were very stupid,

some were brainwashed,

some were guided by their hatred of the poor, the Blacks, the elderly, the disabled and even poor children, and

some were misled by religious quacks that preached to them about abortion, homosexuals and polygamists.

The anti-Christ played on the fears and hatred of all of the above.

This country cannot survive with these divisions between it's people.

:scared: :cry:

[SpecialK]

24. Don't you find in your daily life...

...that most of the people you come across are freaking idiots?

Sadly, it's not surprising that people are so stupid that they voted for Bush. And yes, they are stupid. Unforgivably stupid. Give it any name you want, but in the end, these people are $#@@$# stupid.

Sorry if this sounds bitter and elitist, but I'm sick of it. Really and truly sick of the general population's a.) inability to think critically and b.) attitude that this is acceptable.

[peaches2003]

25. What a joke

Bush and Rove must go to bed laughing their asses off. Half of the American public really wants to be deluded and depend on a father figure to protect them.

When will the new terra 'attack' occur before the midterms and what will it be this time? Can't people figure out the pattern Rove uses to get their votes???

[Ilsa]

26. I think some of them were looking for Fundie-style Camelot with

the Imperial Blivet. They were looking for a Father Knows Best kind of president with the heart of Marcus Welby, MD. And yes, they stupidly fell into lockstep with the party that had the magic words, like "Jesus" or "God told me..." or "good vs. evil" type of definitive stark descriptions so they don't have to think about the deeper end of the issues.

[tjwash]

27. They managed to con a few million fundie nutcases...

...into flooding the polls under the guise of "keeping those damn gay people from getting married."

Unfortunately, it was just enough to eke out a small win. If all of the Dems could have put their differences aside and voted for Kerry, instead of whatever third party candidate they chose, would it have made a difference? I don't know.

[jedicord]

29. He's a guy you want to have a beer with,

and cold beer is great. Kerry was too much a guy you would have a Courvoisier with, and dammit, you hate Courvoisier.

In a nutshell.

When I tried to tell people what was going on and why they should vote for Kerry they ridiculed me and stuck their fingers in their ears.

[MessiahRp]

32. I shared a beer with Kerry

One of the greatest experiences of my life. It's too bad the American people didn't even give the man a chance to show how regular joe he could be... they prejudged him through the media's lies and I would venture to say that many people voted against him for that (not even for real issues) while not even knowing who the man really was.

Rp

[shadowknows69]

30. Never underestimate the power of propaganda

n/t

[lonestarnot]

31. And this friend is the answer! Propoganda is mighty powerful if done

correctly and as is demonstrated by this administration.

[Gregorian]

39. They have Rove and the media.

And the Republicans believed the noise that came from them. We have been painted all kinds of things. Even if true, it has nothing to do with how we can make this a better country. In fact, especially if they are true, it means we can do a better job. But that's another subject.

Now here's what I predict. Since we don't "Rove" on the republicans, it has been a one sided game. Rove (or whomever), calls us hippies, and presto we're hippies. McCarthy calls us commies, and that's what we are. To republicans, that's what we are. Enter the internet. Now the arguments have been heard. Now they know the truth. They know they've been propagandized (if that's even a word), they know what their party stands for, and they know how we feel. There are a lot of stubborn people out there, of both parties. But anyone who is even half of a human will see now. I don't know, I'm not optimistic about what appears to be a large group in this country. But at least the game isn't one sided anymore. It isn't tv, but it's something. They hear us.

[suegeo]

33. The psychology of "shock and awe" part I

I think the government knew that the attacks in Sept. 2001--which I believe the Bush Junta was complicit in--would have the intended psychological impact: the people will rally around der furher.

That's why they conspired with their Saudi biz buddies to have the attacks go down. They used it to control the group.

I mean come on: people running through the streets of New York for their lives, buildings topple, the defense department is defenseless, and people thought of Bush as a SUCCESS?!?!

Terror is something they've studied for a very long time, and they just used the tactic against us, is all. Some people are still in the trance that government put them into.

On Edit: I also label this effect as "Reichstag fire part II" or "Let's dress up as Indians and throw some Brittish tea into the Harbor"

They are using psychology against us, to drag us back, instead of using it to advance us. The junta is a bunch of flaming assholes, and they suck, big time.

[Kazak]

36. Not to mention the landslide in the debates!?!

I think a lot of folks willingly turn a blind-eye so that they won't have to put environmental interests over corporate interests. They don't want to face the inevitable future our planet faces, they just deny it. They won't have that luxury much longer.

[jerry611]

40. Environment wasn't a priority, sadly

When you look at the numbers, Americans don't rank the environment very high on the list of issues most important to them.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. My brother-in-law said he voted for W because the Democrats would

take away his guns, which he hasn't used in 30 years! He also believed we HAD to invade Iraq, but I've had trouble getting him to say why. In my opinion, that's stupid.

[jerry611]

38. A number of reasons

Here is how the 2004 spectrum breaks down in America...
-The first 20-30% of the population will never vote for a Democrat or liberal. That group includes the radicals, the laissez-faire capitalists, the rich, and the religious right.
-Now the next 20-30%. A lot of these people are average families, middle class workers, military and veterans, and married women. Basically the average American.
-Now we are at the 50% mark...
-The next 20% includes the working class and families that decided to vote for Kerry. Also includes union workers, blacks, and the poor.
-The next 10% includes single women, academia, and intellectuals.
-The final 20% includes the radidals, anti-war protesters, communists, and socialists.

So as you can see, we are basically a 50-50 country with only maybe 10% of the population that is willing to swing their vote around. In mid-term elections, usually the party most energized wins. So the Democrats may pick up some seats in congress. But in 2008, you will see this same political atmosphere take hold just like 2004. So Democrats need to learn from the mistakes of 2004 in order to capture that extra 5% to 10% of the vote needed to win. So far, the GOP has been just a little better at doing that. And that's what's making the difference. You arn't going to have elections here like they have in Europe where someone wins 70% or more of the votes. We are not a 70-30 country. We are not a 60-40 country. We are 50-50.

[johnnie]

44. If the election was held today

Do you think it would even out to 50-50 at this point?

[lastliberalintexas]

48. Probably so

Republicans vote like rabbits reproduce- they are committed zealots who have a much higher turnout rate than moderates or people on the left side of the spectrum. That has been true for eons now, unfortunately.

[jerry611]

68. Yes....i do believe it would be 50-50

We are not going to become a left-wing country no matter what happends with Bush. Not one conservative oe Bush voter has changed their political philosophy on anything. They just don't like the fact that Bush isn't doing what they elected him to do.

Approval ratings and election results are two very different things.

[johnnie]

70. I would think that that wouldn't be the case

I think there are enough people that are really pissed off enough to change their vote this time. I personally know a few.

[newportdadde]

41. The propoganda machine is not running full tilt now.

Bush ran a great PR campaign with a ton of cash, he was able to take all of his failures and still spin it to a win(or close enough to steal if your in that camp). Either way the man took one of the worst records in modern history for a President and he still sits in the big chair.

Once we get closer to Nov and the Republican PR machine gets full tilt and starts spending its flush cash you will see all of these close races in the US for Congress get even closer.

Never, ever underestimate how important it is to sell yourself. The RW is very good at not only selling themselves but making the other person look terrible.

[catmandu57]

42. DU'ers are smarter than the average bear

It's pretty hard to slip things past us, virtually impossible. On the other hand, yes, people are that stupid, I see it all the time when I do get out I see it everywhere. People too damn lazy to think for themselves, with no curiosity, no drive to look beyond what they are told. They're sold a bill of goods and later are too damn embarassed to admit it, the best thing we can hope for is that these people just stay home.

[lastliberalintexas]

43. Polling and voting populations are different most of the time

Even when pollsters attempt to snag "likely voters" there is no guarantee that those people will or did vote. That can account for a fairly large variance in the percentage of people who supported him in the voting booths and the percentage of people who do so in a poll.


And yes, for the time being my post also ignores the possibility of any kind of fraud with respect to the election.

[davekriss]

45. Were Bush voters that stupid? Yes

On edit: Further, I don't believe Bush really garnered 50% of the vote. We witnessed a bloodless coup on December 12 2000, repeated in 2002 and 2004. Times are really that dire.

[Jim Warren]

46. and the envelope please................

the winner IS............Clinton's Dick!

[ShortnFiery]

47. If all you do is listen to FOX cable news and read emails from the RNC

you too could be as whacked as the Republicans.

Fortunately for us, the Republican leadership is waking up to the fact that the * Administration could care less about their prospects for re-election.

Let's help them (for different reasons) CLEAN HOUSE GOOD? :woohoo:

[sweetheart]

49. Yep.

.

[Toucano]

50. Yes, they were/are.

Every single Bush voter I know has an incredibly limited amount of knowledge of current events, economic theory, foreign affairs, etc. They parrot hallow, inaccurate talking points from Rush and Sean because they are TOO STUPID to think for themselves.

Some here will blame the media, but not me. The people are responsible for chewing and swallowing the shit diet the media is feeding them.

The great Republican accomplishment in all this is the way they convinced people to adamantly support policies that are against their own interests.

[SpecialK]

54. I agree completely...

...all of the Bush voters I know have a STUNNINGLY loose grasp on all types of current events, foreign affairs, even geography!!

And, although it has nothing to do with knowledge of facts, I'd still be willing to be that Bush voters have - on average - a much lower IQ than non-Bush voters.

[johnnie]

57. The ones I knew voted for two things

They mentioned abortion and gay marriage. They didn't give a shit about the war because they know no one that is there and it is far away.

[RagingInMiami]

52. Stupid, ignorant and uninformed

fucking idiots.

[nancyr]

55. I totally agree.

[tabasco]

53. The brownshirt mentality occurs with a poorly educated electorate

and a mass media controlled by one point of view.

[donsu]

56. the voting machines are rigged - repugs didn't really win

where you been?

[leftofthedial]

58. stupid, lazy, venal, religiously insane

yes, they've been misled and lied to and all that, but people have a responsibility to do a basic level of due diligence. Millions of us knew despite all the mendacity.

I've lost respect for Americans as a people.

[johnnie]

61. Respect is earned

In my short 42 years on this planet I never had respect for Americans as a people. I have respect for some people, but not as a whole.

[leftofthedial]

66. Older than you,

I recall feeling the same way about any country that could elect Nixon twice, once by overwhelming landslide.

What the hell is wrong with our gene pool?

[Arugula Latte]

59. They fall into two main camps: stupid or greedy

(sometimes both)

I know a very intelligent and educated woman who voted for Bush because, basically, she is a rich bitch. She doesn't give a flying turd about anyone except herself and her immediate circle of rich assholes.

[anarch]

63. as a general rule, people are even more stupid than they appear to be

I believe it was H.L. Mencken who said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

[question everything]

64. Let's be fair (and no, I am not a freeper)

How many of us were really happy with Walter Mondale, Mike Dukakis, even Clinton back in 1992, Gore and Kerry?

But we voted for them because we support the Democratic platform. At least, we support it more than the Republican ones.

Bush and Reagan were selected by the powers behind the scene to provide a pretty face for their message. In 1980 it was the Star Wars, in 2001 it was the PNAC. In both case we can be certain the the defense industry, the good old "military industrial complex" was behind. (Do see the movie "Why We Fight"). In 2001 the pharmaceutical and chemical industries joined, too.

But the story presented to the voters was of "family values," of love of god and country, of - what a joke - small government and in 2004 of "don't change course in the middle of the war."

And, I suppose, we provided enough fodder, spoked in monosyllables, and unable to counteract to the aborting and gay marriage attacks to have more of them voting for the party, the message, not necessarily the messenger.

And I would accept the opinions of those who know that Bush is personable and affable. The American voters like a personable president, which is why, back in 1996, Steven Forbes with his goofy smile beat sour and dour Bole and Buchanan in the NH primaries. This is why Clinton even now remains so popular. And.. American voters like to have their president human with human errors and mistakes. This is why Clinton's approval rating soared during the impeachment proceeding. Whenever we are having fun with Bush bumbling, many see him as only human.

We, here, seek content and intelligence from our leaders but for the "common man in the street" Gore and Kerry might as well have spoken Chinese.

No, they are not stupid. They simply believe that the Republican speak to them better than the Democrats - god, country, motherhood.

And this is our goal, really. The census shows that there is a net migration from blue to red states. And, no, the new citizens do not change the outcome. If Kerry carried all the Gore states he would still have lost. And it will be worse in 2008.

Plus, as reported yesterday on CNN - not many Congressional seats are up for grab as many districts are safe for the incumbents.

We need to talk to these voters, not to offend them. We need to bring our issues back to their coffee tables, their water coolers, their schools and their churches. We need to speak in everyday terms: schools, health care, retirement. And, yes, even values. The CIA man who procured prostitutes is a Republican; Duke Cunningham is a Republican, as is Ken Lay and the rest of them. As are the CEOs of HMOs and Mail Prescription orders, squeezing us out while collecting millions.

[KyuzoGator]

65. People were fooled into thinking Kerry was the greater of two evils.

A lot of people voted for Bush because he "wasn't Kerry." That's why the election results aren't tracking with opinion polls.

[Ganja Ninja]

69. A vote for George Bush was a vote for hate.

They hated Clinton.
They hated liberals.
They hated Democrats.
They hated gays.
They hated blacks.
They hated the poor.
They hated the disabled.
They hated the old.
They hated the sick.
They hated immigrants.
They hated foreigners.
They hated environmentalist.
They hated the educated.
They hated non-Christians.
They hated the wrong kind of Christians.

They just flat hated everybody and were willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.