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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:44 PM
Original message
So I'm new and I'm lazy
Edited on Tue May-09-06 05:44 PM by B2G
I haven't posted a detailed profile. And I've posted to afew threads and have been questioned about what I belive. Here's what I believe. And I'm desperately looking for a candidate that I can support wholeheartedly.


1. The war in Iraq is wrong. We need to bring our troops home. (Thought I would get that one out of the way first).
2. Abortion should be a private choice and totally up to the woman. I am very conflicted in the case of the father opposing the decision, as he too is a parent and IMO deserves rights in such cases.
3. Hillary Clinton should not/will not get the Democrat nomination.
4. The average Republican is not evil or stupid. Many of them are my family, friends and neighbors and I cannot imagine severing ties with them due to their political beliefs.
5. I cannot/will not preach my politics to anyone. Doing so would be the same as preaching my religion, which I find to be highly offensive and a waste of breath.
6. Most politicians are corrupt and operate under a huge sense of entitlement. This applies whether they have an R or a D behind their name.
7. Illegal immigration is just that. Illegal. I celebrate and appreciate all that immigrants bring to this country, but we are a nation of laws for a reason. Every country in the world has immigration laws. So do we.
8. It is my right to own a gun and I will lawfully do so if I so choose.
9. I believe in the separation of church and state but have no issue with one nation under God in the pledge or in God we trust on our currency.
10. George Bush did not orchestrate 9/11.

Im sure a lot of you will disagree with many of my beliefs. Tough. They're mine, I'm not asking you to endorse them. There are a lot of Democrats out there who believe these same things. If the Republicans are going to lose in 2008, and I sincerely hope they do, youre going to need us. You seem to disdain the very moderates you're going to need to win. The time to start reaching out was yesterday.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't be surprised if you get your shit jumped for #2.
I did. Some people here feel STRONGLY that the man's choice ends at ejaculation.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. to a certain extent, it does.
at least while the child is in the womb. After all, it's in the woman's body - she'll do what she wants or is coerced into wanting, but ulitimately, she can do what she wants.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I've been fully introduced to that opinion and it's reasoning. - n/t
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. It's more of a fact than an opinion.
Just like a man can pee standing up and a woman can't.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. I'm an argument magnet, aren't I?
I guess it's my fault.

Actually, I've known at least one woman who could pee standing up, and I doubt she's the only one in the world.

I like to think of my opinions as fact, too, but there's usually more gray area than I'm ready to acknowledge while I'm defending them.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. No, it's a fact.
A woman can be pregnant for some time without anyone knowing about it. And she can terminate that pregnancy without anyone but her doctor or practioner knowing about it. And it's been done. Even if there is a law requiring the partner's permission, it will still be done sometimes. So, I fail to see how that is just my opinion.


At any rate, most women probably can pee standing up - you have to squat a little, though. ;)

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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Right, you fail to see it.
Are you hoping to change my mind or that I will change yours?
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. No. I'm just saying that the biology has made it a fact that a woman can
terminate a pregnancy or even have a child and never tell the father. Now whether she should do this or not is another matter and I'm quite gray in that opnion - mostly because I've never in my life been in a position where I have to be afraid of a man, but I can't speak for every woman.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Uh-huh. - n/t
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
68. No, medical proceedures and a law made that a fact...
Not biology. We were not engineered to push our belly button and eject an unwanted pregnancy. Our bodies were made to create and nurture that pregnancy. That is biology. The word biology even translates roughly into the science of life..

But the word "life" doesnt fit into this side of the abortion debate most often on DU.. I forgot.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. bs, the "medical procedure and law" can only function due to
the fact that nature has set up a system which can be tended to in such a manner. your putting carts before horses here.

anyone who opposes the "womans choice only" viewpoint is supporting slavery.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. welp...
Tended to? Abortion isnt tending to one of nature's systems. It is undermining it.

I guess by your definition I support slavery and you know what? Im fine with that. I sleep at night. It's all good. We arent asexual beings. There are two people and two opinions that should be considered. You dont have to believe the same thing and I will never believe as you do... that is just how shit plays out sometimes. But let's not call abortion "biology" because in it's essence it is the antithesis of biology.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. More pregnancies terminate than come to term.
Check it out. Biology favors termination actually.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #78
88. Abortion is biology -- a miscarriage is an abortion
Nature's abortion. The body IS made to terminate pregnancies.

And yes, saying a woman doesn't have 100% say over her own body, and can be forced to carry out a pregnancy for ANY reason, is endorsing gender slavery. It's very, very sad you're fine with that... actually, it is troubling.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Really..
medical abortion the is D&C with suction of biology.

That's and incredibly interesting way of looking at it.

Whatever helps you sleep through the night, eh?
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Do you think miscarriage = a D&C?
I'm really curious if you think that.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. That's what I'm wondering... because it's the furthest thing from that
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. biology does provide
Not every pregnancy is viable. Miscarraiges happen. Abortions happen spontaneously at times. In nature, which we humans are part of, not every pregnancy comes to term, nor is it intended to. Death is as much a part of life as birth is.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Heh..
we dont spontaneously miscarry based upon our wants. I am aware of nowhere else in nature that animals attempt to induce the end of a pregnancy. That act is not bio"logical"- It may be mental, physical, what have you.. but it definately isnt imprinted upon life.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. Horses do.
I know that for a fact. And I am sure they're not alone as a species that can spontaneously abort when environmental demands dictate/suggest it to the animal.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Id love to read about that.
Im unable to find anything on how horses can decide to abort their fetuses. Of course, just like a human Im sure that all kinds of reasons can cause a pregnancy not to come to term, but I was unaware that a horse could actually decide to stop being pregnant and induce it's own abortion. Do you know the medical term for it?

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/fa...
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #89
100. 25 years in the breeding business.
Large herd of 50+ horses so I only know my own anecdotal evidence but I'm sure its out there. My vets and virtually every other horse breeder out there would back me up on this - do some research (shrug). I just know what I know.

I've had horses decide to abort simply because they didn't like their new paddock mate. Or they were shifted from one paddock to another. Or they were injured and required stall rest, or vice versa.

It's frustratingly perverse. I've heard that wolves (and other predators) will abort when famine conditions are present but I don't have the time nor inclination to go researching (and I'm on a dial-up connection - I live in a rural area - which means any PDF files are almost impossible for me to load).

You can believe it or not, but it's a fact.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #100
106. yuppers and deer will reabsorb the fetus if there is a food shortage.
probably lots of species
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
105. read up on some demography/life table analysis.
In times of psychological and/or physical stress, miscarriage rates rise automatically to adjust to the carrying capacity of a population in certain environments. In the West, we can count on adequate nutrition to prevent most of this, but psychological stress can contribute to higher miscarriage rates.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #68
97. We're not engineered to eject unwanted tumors or tapeworms, either n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. I'm a woman & I pee standing up, esp in the shower.
women can too pee standing up. Take your pants off and try it. Lift your skirt and go. They can. See? Writing your name in the snow, it gets blurry, but women can pee standing up.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. ha! ha! See my post #44!
;)
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. dang, broke another rule:don't post before reading it all
:hi:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. well, you're description was better!
ha! ha!
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. (and this was tame in comparison) - n/t
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. and it's tame in comparison to having someone force you into childbearing.
but that's just my opinion.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. You got my message. - n/t
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. Unless they also forced you into sex..
I dont see the corrolation.

Forced into childbearing like we had no part in the matter.

But that is just my opinion.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
86. Birth control fails. Rape/incest occurs.
Sometimes women ARE forced into pregnancy.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #70
108. I know this sounds completely crazy and it may just be me...
but I'd personally rather be raped and not get pregnant than have sex consensually and be forced to carry to term against my will...Gaia forbid EITHER happens to me but I think people seriously underestimate the psychological stress and physical drain that such a forced servitude pregnancy would provoke...
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know if politics allows for "wholeheartedly"
You may have to do some triage, like the rest of us. Nonetheless, welcome aboard...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm a dreamer
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. well, so am I. But still...
n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. "Triage."
In 2000, the triage was *fix the broken arm first, or the broken leg?*

Now, the triage is *fix the amputation first, or the decapitation?*
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with us.
Some I agree with, some I don't.
I am sure you're going to be judged by some DUers here but don't let them get to you.

DU is a great place filled with wonderful, open-minded, intelligent, funny, sexy people.

Enjoy it here. It's a fun place.

Welcome to DU!

:hi:
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Moderates aren't a problem...
Corporatists, on the other hand, whether they're Republicans or Democrats, ARE a problem.

Most of America, in my opinion, falls into the "moderate" category. It's not their fault that the dialogue has moved rightward over the past several years.
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OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. You're not THAT lazy
if you took the time to write that out.

Welcome to DU.

Now, go get me a sandwich ............ ;)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. "I cannot/will not preach my politics to anyone"
This is a huge problem in America. Somehow, discussing politics has become impolite. So rampant disinformation and stupidity will reign supreme.

Reconsider that one. I'm not enough of a dick to jump on you regarding any of the others. You sound like most of the people I know, and I say welcome aboard.

Oh, and preach brother. Preach.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. She called my whole thread pathetic.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Nonetheless, I say welcome as well. But as to not preaching ones politics, I am with you Will. Once in a while when you get a little truth out there, (or truthout), small seeds of reality are planted.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Feh
I call "whatever" on her (?) complaint.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
72. Your thread just like the ones on the Bush twins
was petty. Pathetic isnt the word I would use but to take people's pictures with their names captioned and post them on a site that so strongly disagrees with their opinions isnt that much different then websites with abortion doctor's names.

Those are kids that are just stepping out in life trying to find their way. They have often been raised by parents who told them what to believe and by thinking we are so superior to them we write off some of the few that are actually motivated enough to not sit on their ass all day questioning or participating in nothing of significance.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. Oh, GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Petty I will accept. I don't consider myself "superior" to them in any way, I don't think I am superior to anybody. However:

Saying the thread was 'not that much different then websites with abortion doctor's names" is way beyond the pale. The websites with abortion doctors names ecourange violence towards those doctors. Are you honestly saying that I intended the same result?

PS I did not caption their names, they did on their own website, so I don't think they are trying to hide anything.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Wouldnt be the first time..
even in this thread, that Im disagreed with. Not all sites with the names of abortion doctors say anything about violence. They are easily accessible lists of names, pictures and information that allow people who are not stable an easy way to direct and manifest their hatred.

I did not say that you intended for the kids in those pictures to have harm done to them. Of course I know you didnt.. but I stand by my statement that compiling all of that is in the same vein of those idiots who focus the same type of energy on other more dubious issues.

You didnt caption their names, but Im sure that they never intended to be the fodder of democratic underground. If they knew that they would be, perhaps they would have captioned themselves as "BlueBear" or "BeTheChange".. maybe we should all change our screen names to our real names since we have nothing to fear but fear itself, right?
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
92. Public photos from public sites -- apples and oranges, and you know that
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Thank you.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. Prego -- these comments are a bit bizarre to me
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
90. I noticed that
Edited on Tue May-09-06 08:21 PM by LostinVA
Oops, forget this part: and, it was a good thread, too.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Will, What Are Your Feelings On The Following?
I had a bit of a different take then you did, and am curious if you agree with it in this context or still disagree. It is from my reply below:

"Point 5 I would have the comment that preaching politics is wrong and ineffective, and that can be seen here readily. Many posters preach instead of educate, and it goes in one ear and out the other or starts flame wars. No one likes to be preached at. But that shouldn't stop one for genuinely trying to educate those who may not know otherwise, or help them become aware, in a sincere manner."

I think there is a difference between preaching and informing/educating.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Semantics
"Preaching" can be defined as holding forth, demagoguing, yelling, etc.

I'd define it as "talking about it."

Every great social change in history began with a conversation.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. 'Every great social change in history began with a conversation.'
Indeed.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Fair Enough. And "Every great social change in history began with a
conversation"

I've never heard that but love it. Who said it? (my bad if it was yours LOL)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. I read it in the Utne Reader
in 2003.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:03 PM
Original message
Hey William Pitt, you didn't leave!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. Never said I was leaving
Said I was taking a break.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Break's over! Get busy!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Gotcha
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
61. Good job William Pitt!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. The government depends on us keeping politics a taboo subject.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
65. It's not just impolite anymore
It's downright dangerous in some circles. There's too much venom. It's been like that since Clinton was in office. I'm not trying to place blame anywhere, I think it's just the nature of political discourse now. I find it sad.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
107. Agreed. We have an obligation to preach our politics
to save the world from the lunacy that has befallen it in the name of the religious right.

Preaching about politics and preaching about religion are two different things. One is personal. Politics is about all of us. The collective us and how it affects us all.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. Fine, as long as we end the drugs war
You have not put forward a solution to the primary problem that
has the US at the world's largest prison population fighting an
impossble war.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/995a60ea-de2e-11da-af29-000077...
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. In regards to the drug war
I'm for legalizing marijauna and possibly other rec drugs. Crack, I'm against.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. A progressive in progress
You'll learn a lot on this forum.. the people here are really poltiically
smart and can help you tune up your old model-T. Put this thread in your
journal and see how your politics evolve over time being challenged.

The principal of preventing drugs abuse by crimininalization has failed
miserably for decades now. If pot were legal, likely people wouln't even
bother with crack.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, the sperm donor had a choice when he refused to wear
a condom. Once he's deposited his load into someone else's body, he becomes responsible for the financial damages, whether that woman chooses to abort or to carry.

Most partners will be consulted, but it is not the male partner's decision because it is not his body, his health, his job, his social support system, and his LIFE at risk. That's the one thing you're a little wrong on, but you're getting there.

God doesn't belong on money, sorry. It demeans both god and the money.

As for finding a candidate you can support wholeheartedly, that's not likely to happen, since candidates for national office are chosen by groups of businessmen or groups of business lobbies. You get a choice among oil, banking, insurance, shipping, and the other large industries. Unless we get public funding of campaigns, this is the way it's going to be.

What we do know is that the oil/military/big pill/military contractor lobbies are bad news and we need to pick different representatives next time.

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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. So if we don't "reach out" whatever that means
you'll vote Republican? What? I'm sorry but I don't see any point to this post but to antagonize. What if I don't moderate my stance or agree to move to the mushy middle on the topics you posted. What then? :shrug:

FWIW, I'm also looking for a candidate I wholeheartedly can support and I haven't seen one win the nomination in decades. That means I put my money and my support with people who don't like the status quo either and promise to make changes.

You're lecturing and threatening the wrong audience, IMHO.
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. No, I'm not lecturing
I'm clarifying. I've been asked why I'm here, what I believe.

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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. OK then
Welcome aboard. I wish you the best and thanks for taking the time to post so many details of where you stand. :-)
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. welcome to DU
Edited on Tue May-09-06 06:01 PM by LSK
1 Agree
2 Disagree - not sure what a fathers rights should be
3 Agree
4 Disagree - most conservates have NO FACTS and base all their beliefs on Rush talking points
5 Disagree but depends on who/what the situation is
6 Disagree - watch the House dems on CSPAN once in a while
7 Disagree - its not as simple as that and going after the illegals is not going to the root of the problem
8 Disagree - not everyone should have a gun and not all guns should be legal
9 Agree
10 Disagree - I dont know what his role is but I do not beleive the official story

Having said that, I would say that you should please stick around for a while and try and read a lot of the opinions here and try and be flexible in your beliefs. At one point in my life I might have agreed with you some more but 2.5 years have gone a long way towards changing me.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. I Agree With You On Most, (including #2), but would change 5 and 10.
Point 5 I would have the comment that preaching politics is wrong and ineffective, and that can be seen here readily. Many posters preach instead of educate, and it goes in one ear and out the other or starts flame wars. No one likes to be preached at. But that shouldn't stop one for genuinely trying to educate those who may not know otherwise, or help them become aware, in a sincere manner.

Point 10 I'm still really torn on. Orchestrated 9-11? Let it happen on purpose? Just got caught offguard cause he was vacationing the whole time? I jump back and forth between all 3 at some point or another, but in no way can speak with utmost confidence to any of the 3. There are plenty of reasons to support any of those, but I'm leaning towards LIHOP. There is just too much there.

Other than that though, I think your arguments are very logical and I agree with them.
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ourbluenation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. welcome to DU
:toast:
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B2G Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Thanks
I have to get to the kid's orchestra concert but will check in later.

I'm here to learn. I have an open mind. This is where I'm at right now. I just wanted to share that, because I've seen the suspicion that surrounds new appearances.

;-)
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nookiemonster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. "I'm here to learn. I have an open mind. This is where I'm at right now."
Music to our ears!

:toast:

Outstanding! Welcome aboard.

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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nice opening statement
One thing will surprise you about DU though. There is a likelyhood that you will change some of your believes, because that is what most regulars did over time.

P.S. The average Republican is not evil or stupid may be true, but it is the juice which keeps the pack together :rofl: If you feel frustrated there is always a repuke bashing thread somewhere to make you feel better :D
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. i agree, DU will change your "beliefs"
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. Politics isn't the same as religion
At least it's not the same for rational people. Indeed, if we have a problem in this country it's because far too many people treat politics like religion - on blind faith and rituals rather than objectivity, reason, and evidence and on dogma rather than conscience - and it's the liberals who make this mistake who have compounded the error for the last 27 years by remaining (politely) silent.

In a democracy, politics is ALL about participation and speaking out! A democracy cannot afford political "atheists"!
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. I agree with some of what you say and disagree with other
but that is what is so great about our country and the Democratic party--it is truly a big tent party. Welcome to DU!
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Alleycat Donating Member (992 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. Welcome to DU
I personally don't agree with all your beliefs but I do agree with 6 out of 10. Just remember you can't please everybody!
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. I get where you're coming from and don't disagree with most of
what you said. I'm not quite ready to endorse your #5 or #9 points unequivocably, but...see my sig line. ;-)
Welcome to DU anyhow.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. We'll I've severed too many ties to be bothered worrying about
it. Did it by choice and have no time for people that either can't be bothered with the government of their own country, preserving freedom, saving people from dying in a war of lies. Fuck reaching out to 20% LOL!
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ramapodem Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. Welcome to the fight
While I disagree with you on some of the issues the bottom line is centrists are important to our political system. I still believe that it is the centrists who check and balance the yahoo's on the left and the right. Liberals and conservatives are the minority in the electorate. We are a nation of centrists.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
38. welcome to DU-- what warpy (#9) said, and I will add that, if a man WANTS
to be a father, then I suggest that he choose as a sex partner someone who WANTS to be a mother, or adopt. he does NOT have the right to force a woman to gestate for nine months, with all the effects on her body and mind, simply because he wants to be a daddy.

"in god we trust" did not appear on american currency until 1864. "under god" did not appear in the pledge until 1954, as a sop to the hysterics of the cold war anti-communist lobby. and I DO have a problem with it, a little thing called "separation of church and state"

I hope the repukes lose in 2006, but I won't hold my breath waiting for whatever chicanery they are planning this time.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. Due to comments in other threads, I think you are pulling our collective
Edited on Tue May-09-06 06:06 PM by MrsGrumpy
leg.

I would say you are:

1. Horrified by any thread posted here.

I am a moderate. I also believe people are welcome here no matter how radical I think they are. And I'm certainly not going to run off in horror, as you have posted in your short stay. Hide thread is a valid and much used (by me) option. Make it your friend.

and...you're not moderate so much as you are someone with a HUGH chip on your shoulder.
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KyuzoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. Where I stand.
1. I believe that all military action should only be declared by Congress. Calling it a "police action" or some other euphamism for "war" should not be allowed. Congress declares war before we send troops.

2. I believe that the Second Amendment extends gun ownership rights to individuals. I believe that state governments should have shall-carry gun ownership licensing that includes a background check and extensive safety training. I believe that the current definition of "destructive devices" is adequate to describe what should be controlled federally. I believe that including gun bans in the Democratic platform is suicidal.

3. I am strongly philosophically opposed to the use of abortion as a primary form of birth control. However, I am a realist and know that it is a choice that should be made by the woman and also that you can't ban abortion in some cases and not in others.

4. I believe that rape is epidemic. I also believe that women lying about being raped is epidemic.

5. I believe that the "Drug War" has produced the same failed results as alcohol prohibition. I believe that our taxes could be lowered dramatically and social programs funded properly with extensive "sin taxes" on legalized drugs.

6. I believe that I can count on one hand the number of prominent Democratic politicians who I feel speak for me.

7. I believe that there should be a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.

8. I believe that gasoline prices are artificially lowered and should reflect true market value. I believet that high gas prices will drive market demand for renewable fuels and efficient use of it.

9. I believe that Air Force One should be fucking mothballed.

10. I believe that the President should hold a press conference every week in person, and be forced to answer unscripted questions.

11. I believe it is too easy to get and too difficult to lose a driver's license. I believe that automobile fatalities and injuries are a major issue that must be addressed by political leaders.

12. I believe that health care is a right and not a privilege. I believe that my taxes should fund a health plan that allows me to go to whatever doctor I want.

13. I believe that our military is still equipped to fight a massive Cold War-type WW3 and not designed for quick-strike counterterror operations. I believe our military is bloated and costs too much money.

There's more, but that's a start.
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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
52. Voting Democrat in the future? Welcome aboard!

I agree with all of your points. Except #10. :> ;)
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sheelz Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
55. Welcome to DU
Although, I don't agree with most of your beliefs, I just want to say-- GO Bears! :-)

*warning: the OP's opinion does not represent all Bear fans (perhaps the Packers)
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kiraboo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
56. I'm with you on five of the ten. And I'm as moderate as they come.
Enjoy your stay.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
59. Welcome to DU....My responses
1..agree
2 . agree for the woman, partially agree if they are in a marriage or committed relationship. IF she got laid, all bets are off. They never planned a pregnancy and IMO he has no say.
3 Agreed
4 I beg to differ. most rethugs are very misinformed. The Rush screaming meme's is not an educated opinion.
5 Agree on faith or religion, which should be very personal. Politics affects everyone. I talk about little else.
6 Agreed with few wonderful exceptions
7 Totally agree
8 Agree with the exception of assault weapons. There is no reason for them to be legal for citizens
9 Totally agree
10 Totally DISAGREE. I am very much in the MIHOP camp

There is years of well informed/research posts in the archives. When you have time you may want to go visit.

Welcome aboard!
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
62. I agree with maybe 5 out your 10 but I'm not lazy in my research
or intellectual pursuits. Welcome to DU
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
66. Welcome to DU
I am all over the spectrum on your 10 points
I disagree with #10 but totally agree with the right to own a gun.
But the important thing is whether we agree that we need a change in politics and the way tings are run in this country. That is what is really important.
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BeTheChange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
67. Libertarian underground..
No seriously. It's the crux of a problem for many of us. With the way all the political paradigms have shifted alot of people who would have been solid moderate dems previously are now polarized into the lib party on your points 2, 4, 7, 8 & 9.

The candidates last time I was willing to support were Kucinich and Edwards. I voted for Kerry incredibly begrudingly and Ill be damned if I vote for Hillary Clinton. I say, we need a strong southern traditionally moderate Dem to wake up the heartland and the south and until we find that person start looking forward to President McCain or something equally as bad.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
69. You lost me at "Democrat nomination"
:shrug: Petty I know, but a I can't help it. And don't get me started on the "average republican is not "evil" or "stupid". :silly: :banghead: And George Bush sat on his sorry ass for SEVEN MINUTES while the U.S. was under attack, with a scared shitless look on his chimp face, after which he was whisked away and stayed gone for the remainder of the day. Only to show up four days later with a bullhorn and a fireman, what a brave and courageous leader. :sarcasm:
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
71. Welcome Underground
:hi:
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
74. Do you think DU speaks for all Democrats?
Do you somehow think DU somehow represents ALL Democrats? Your OP isn't clear and I'm confused.

You say in your OP that "There are a lot of Democrats out there who believe these same things" and then go on to imply that "we" "disdain the very moderates you're going to need to win". Who are you referring to as "we" and "you"?

Who do you think is "disdaining" you? The people on DU? Surely you don't mean the majority of Dems since you just stated that "a lot of Democrats" believe these same things.

So why do "we" (you're not defining this population very well), need to "reach out" yesterday, especially if the Dem party already includes people such as you?

Your post is proof positive that Dems are a big tent.

Or are you somehow slamming "us" at DU? This is a progressive site for progressively minded Dems. Deal with it or leave. But that doesn't mean (according to your own OP) that Dems haven't reached out to "you". Clearly they have, and do. Since you identify yourself as a Dem.

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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
75. Here's my take:
(and I know how EVERYBODY had been on pins & needles waiting for MY response)

1) I agree. The Iraqi war is stupid. We should bring the troops home, and send the W (War) Party politicians home too.

2) It's a woman's decision. If a man wants to be a father, I think he should sign a "Baby makin' contract" with a woman before having sex. Otherwise, he sacrifices all parental rights.

3) I think Hillary should get the nomination. Since the Republicans hate her so much, it's obvious that she will be a great President.

4) I think the average Republican is both stupid and evil. As far as I'm concerned, they and their ideas for ruining America can go straight to hell and fry, but that's just me.

5) My religion is my personal business. The politics of others is also my personal business, since it's my life and my country the Republicans are trying to fuck up.

6) Most Democratic politicians are interested in serving the public and helping make this world and nation a better place. There are a few exceptions. Most Republican politicians are complete assholes serving only their selfish personal and political goals without regard for what is right or moral.

7) Give me your tired, your weary, your huddles masses yearning to be free. If we don't have enough jobs for our new immigrants, then we should put Republicans on rafts and tow them out to sea to make room for good people. America needs more Mexicans. They're cool people.

8) The NRA is a Republican organization hell-bent on getting Republicans elected to positions of power. They only use the "gun issue" to stir up a bunch of malleable sheep. Congress and the state legislatures have the power to ban 100% of guns. The NRA can't change that fact.

9) Get that "In God we trust" bullshit off of our money. This nation is led by a bunch of selfish heathens. Leaving the motto on the coins is the ultimate in hypocrisy.

10) Fuck the so-called "moderates". They gave us Ronald Reagan and the Bush disasters. I don't think we need to listen to their opinions anymore. They've demonstrated that they aren't competent when it comes to picking "leaders".
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
76. Bush may not've orchestrated 9-11, but he DID let it happen.
He was warned by the CIA, FBI and who knows who else and he sat on his ass, safe and sound in Crawford.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
84. Hi, i'm old and I'm lazy
Edited on Tue May-09-06 08:11 PM by sweetheart
I've never written a list like yours, here goes:

1. Any assault on indivdiual choice and freedom is wrong. This includes the
drugs war, all war, corporate coercion and state killing, containing people
at borders, prison states, *hard patriarchy* as a meme.

2. Women and men of all races are equal in all ways legal, and perhaps very different in
ways not legal... All have rights to privacy, reproduction and free will,
in all areas of their lives... marriage, gay, whatever.. whatever... let us
be equal, and justice for all.

3. I don't care about anything else, if you do, more power to you.

4. If they cross my points 1 and 2, i don't support them.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
87. I'm so glad you aren't going to preach to us.
Oh wait, you did.

Welcome to DU anyway. It's Democratic nomination, not Democrat nomination. The Republican party likes to use that terminology, we do not.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Beat me to it. n/t
Geez... my ignore list is growing and growing and growing lately...
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #93
102. Astounding ain't it?
Those little features you never had to use before...
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
99. Since you're new
I request that you read the link in my sig link and re-think item #10.

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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-09-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
101. Tell me you're not going to betray us again.
Some...let me repeat...SOME of us DUers have a disdain for selfish, wishy washy Dems, yes. Moderates? Not so much.

All I care about is if you stand up for what you believe, and scream it from the rafters, so I would disagree with your point about 5...which you violated by posting this manifesto in the first place...but you know that. ;)

My problem with so-called moderates, is that they are eternally selfish. Sure, they can see the problems with GOP run governments now that a true corporatist and government dismantler is in charge. The lowering of the middle class, the obscene profits for the ultra-rich, lying to start wars with other nations, and lying that they're not about the politics of oil, which is so obvious to not be funny, and the many other destructive policies had gotten to the point where it's coming after them.
However, once a good liberal...say a new FDR...gets into office, starts to change things for the better, re-creates a better society, and expands the social safety net, these self important "moderates" will fall for the same old "Welfare moms driving Cadillacs", "Investors are the creators of wealth" and "Nanny State" bullshit lines the Repugs are famous for, then they will betray and abandon us again, as the selfish greedy so-called "Reagan Democrats" did in 1980, and dismantle everything again.
They are neither a help, nor wanted in my party by me, personally. They have proven that they have no real belief in a level playing field, and social justice, they just care when it gets so bad it hits them. Fair weather friends are not good friends. Funny thing, like you just did, they feel entitled to be wooed into the party, that the party should conform to them, as opposed to joining in and using their own point of views to make it better. We true believers have been here all along, and will never be swayed by another inevitable Reagan-like svengali selling "God Bless America" in place of sound public policy.We're in it for the long haul. They've proven in the last 25 years that they are not. Why should we change to accomodate a fence-sitter who's whoring their vote to the party that kisses better ass? Their votes are not as important as they think it is.

If you are not that kind of moderate, then let's get to work. :hi:
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
103. moderate? You disapprove of the president on Iraq...you are a moonbat
liberal pinko commie peacenik. :hi:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
104. good luck with all of that
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
109. Why is it "our" job to reach out?
Do I need to buy you dinner and a movie to get a good night kiss? :eyes:
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