Question of the Night...Can we have Democracy

[serryjw]

without Capitalism (as defind by RWers)A market driven society? A supermarket meat cutter (from Russia) wouldn't sign my petition because he doesn't believe that 'governemnt control' is a good thing. I asked "what is the difference betwen a fascist government or fascist corpocracy"? He still believes in market forces?? What do you do when market forces to not help a segment of society?
I guess the question is 'control' vs 'regulation'

[Erika]

1. Replace control vs. regulation with corporate profit

That's the aim. Corporate profit could care less about wages. Zilch, Nada. As Exxon stated, they are in business to maximize profits.

[opihimoimoi]

2. Aristocracv and Democracy can co exist ubless the aristocrats

grab control and use/make Laws to their advantage....supressing the Masses

[serryjw]

5. Catch 22

Profits help society and reinvestment for our future society. Even the masses (until recently!) benefited from retirements programs of their companies. In the 90's more middle class people were invested in the market, directly or indirectly, than ever before.

The conversation reminds me of one I had last week. Would you take a $100K job building bombs?

This is as close to my philosophy as I can find
quote.......
self-described "free market libertarian" founder and CEO of Whole Foods Market, John Mackey, claims in an article in Reason magazine that he is serving customers and society out of "love" rather than self-interest while he boasts the profitability of his company in that article. (Rethinking the Social Responsibility of Business, Reason magazine October 2005).

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

3. A thought provoking question...

...for which I have no answer. Here is a review of Oscar Wilde's essay "The Soul of Man Under Socialism." An interesting read that I think has some relevance to your question.

<snip>

Wilde was certain of what kind of future he wanted for humanity. As the quote above indicates he did not wish to see an industrial tyranny rise in the name of Socialism. "All modes of Government are failures", he maintained, while social democracy is "the bludgeoning of people by the people for the people". His main obsession was with what he termed "individualism". I think it's fair to interpret this as a will for freedom. "Socialism itself will be of value because it will lead to individualism."

He opposed the locking up of people because they had committed crimes against property, arguing "a community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment rather than the occasional occurrence of crime".

He also took up the case of possibly the most famous political prisoners of his era. Along with George Bernard Shaw, he signed a petition for the release of the Haymarket martyrs (anarchist trade unionists executed for their role in the 8- hour day movement). He saw through the lies and the rail-roading they were receiving in that court in Chicago.

"A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not even worth glancing at."

Wilde lived his life never once renouncing his beliefs or his choices. His politics have been hidden over the years since he died in 1900. He wrote his essay on 'The Soul of Man under Socialism' over one hundred years ago, yet the ideas expressed are still vitally relevant. He expressed the idea that we all exist and only some of us really live. Some of us live because we're pushing for a different world to the one that surrounds us. Read him and remember "Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue."

by Dermot Sreenan

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/ws98/ws53_wilde.html

[rwheeler31]

4. We no longer have good

regulated business, greed is rampant.