how long before America recognizes that the GOP

[leftofthedial]

is an organized criminal enterprise?

[undergroundpanther]

1. Until they are hurt

Hurt by the thievery incompetence or they are dragged off to labor camp or arrested for sneezing at an airport.

In other words until more people are affected in a bad way PERSONALLY by bush's policies or his criminality they can play nimby and slip into denial.

[havocmom]

2. A lot of life-long Republicans in my area have figured it out

Their values are the same as they have always been. They are waking to the fact that the GOP has abandoned them.

[AndyA]

3. I agree. True Republicans are very unhappy with what they see in their

party. They want smaller government. A high level of ethics. Separation of church and state. They want balanced budgets, fiscal responsibility, a strong military that isn't the aggressor.

None of which define the Republican Party of today.

The ball has started unraveling, and I see no signs of it stopping. The more it unravels, the more people leave the Republican Party.

[BOSSHOG]

4. There is a substantial number of Americans

who know but are too ignorant and way too proud to publicly condemn the gop. Its their party so by gawd what they do is just fine and dandy and they have been thoroughly indoctrinated that they don't want the alternative, libruls.

[sce56]

5. "Nixon and Agnew in 72 why change horses in the middle of a screw!"

Graffiti read on a freeway entrance sign post back in the 70's! It is the same old party that brought us Tricky Dick, "I'm not a Crook", Nixon and Ronald Reagen, Iran Contra scandals, why believe they ever were honest since Eisenhower left office?

[leftofthedial]

13. Ike was the last legit Republican

since then, they've all been crooks.

[samplegirl]

6. I guess when their tired

of trying to make ends meet every month or lose their job.
When independent and family owned businesses are forced out
by corporate america. Or possibly when we all have to resort
to stealing our groceries.

[tom_boy]

7. Prosecute Them?

I say vote them out.

Unfortunately, what goes around comes around.

As pleasant as it would be to criminally prosecute these guys, once that practice becomes acceptable, Democracy becomes the victim.

I say the most thorough way to become the dominant political party is not in the justice system, but in the voting booth.

Just ask the Repugs. After achieving landslide dominance in Congress, they scored a judicial home run of impeaching Clinton.

Not only did it not help them, It the long run, it weakened their very own party

[leftofthedial]

8. how does the prosecution of criminals undermine Democracy?

[tom_boy]

9. Politics that originate in the justice system

tend to create a police state.
In my opinion.

Don't think that you are so clever that someone can find some law you have broken, and given enough resources that person can make sure you spend your time in courtrooms and jailhouses until your grandchildren have forgotten your name.

And as I say, it just isn't good strategy. It clearly didn't do the Repugs any good with Clinton. I think we could have won DeLay's seat, but now we have to fight against some new guy, without DeLay's baggage.

[leftofthedial]

10. so you would advocate blanket amnesty for all crimes committed

by any elected politician

interesting.

utterly ridiculous, but interesting.

[tom_boy]

11. That would be absurd!

We need to let the police do their job.

(However it is worth noting that we do give immunity to foreign ambassadors. I guess the work they do is more important than being a representative of a democracy.)

I'm just saying, this is a tool better left out of the the political toolbox. These investigations should be started because they are crimes, not because some special interest group (that would include you and me, dear) demands that the forces of justice grind their wheels slowly against some particular group.

[leftofthedial]

12. I don't think anyone here is advocating trumped-up political charges

like the repukes used on Clinton. king george has commited treason and broken the vows he took when sworn in after the coup in 2000 and again in 2004.

if a President commits treason, the Congress, not police, is the body empowered to hold him accountable.

[tom_boy]

14. OK hold your nose and pretend for a minute...

That you are on the other side of fence. Say the moderate right.
Does this charge of treason seem like a politically motivated charge or not?

Now you know what the answer is going to be.
And remember the karma principle-what goes around comes around. (or the ancronym-KIAB)

I'm not saying that what he has done is insigificant, I'm just saying is something that would be called treason if you or I did it. Or is this person being accused of the crime because of who he is.
Yeah, it's a crime that a guy that stupid in the Commander in Chief, but I don't think it is the kind of thing that you use the courts to fix. His Iraq data seems flawed, but I don't know if its a good idea to put people to death (the penalty for treason, right?) because they listened to the wrong people.

But more important than all that, this sort of thing never seems to translate into votes, or least not for the last few decades.

[leftofthedial]

15. had justice been sought and served during Iran Contra

instead of a conciliating forgive-and-forget approach

we wouldn't even be discussing this issue.

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Starting a war on false pretenses he knew were fals falls under treason

And it would for anyone else IMO.

[radfringe]

16. how long before America realizes

there's a leadership vacuum?

In a subtle way - America has realized there is a leadership vacuum.

When leaders fail to lead, people start taking matters into their own hands.

A prime example of this is the Minutemen border patrol, and similar groups along the borders. If there were leadership and confidence in our 'leaders' these groups wouldn't have organized to this great extent.

yes, we have groups and organizations taking action on alot of issues - but for the most part they are working to pressure the leaders. The minutemen groups are by-passing the government and doing the job themselves.

Another example are the states which have passed/are passing strong illegal immigration legislation - again by-passing the federal government which has failed to lead.

the lack of leadership is not limited just to the illegal immigration issue - states are passing legislation regarding gas gouging, emission standards, environmental regulations, and labor laws (to name a few). Cities, towns and states are also passing resolutions to impeach bush*. ( or as I like to call it impeaCHIMP )

instead of ONE UNIFIYING set of legislation we have a crazy-quilt being assembled. Private citizens and states are doing what the congress and administration has failed to do.

[tom_boy]

17. The country needs a solution.

Whether are not you are willing to admit, illegal immigration is a problem, and it is going to be solved.

One approach is the the reactionary mob justice of the MinuteMen.

I sincerely hope we can come up with a more just and national resolution

[ShortnFiery]

18. Yes, but we shouldn't gloat too much ...

I just saw Schumer(D-NY) on a Tweety replay and he came across like a patronizing pr**k. Gotta give Tweety credit for stating flat out that a 9-11 family member, words to the effect that "she has shown more courage than you by stating Moussoui knew less than the GOVERNMENT about the happenings on 9-11 before the fact." Schumer hemmed and hawed by stating, "Well that MAY be but still I would have preferred execution but I can live with life in prison."

What f**king MAROONic behavior for a fellow Democrat!

Can't NY State give us someone better than this bozo <cough> Senator "Pander Baby" Schumer?

[TRUTHSEEKER_01]

19. Well it may be to late before that happens

[mortlefaucheur]

20. Not yet, not since 1856. n/t

*

[tom_boy]

21. 1856?

OK help my history out. What happened in 1856?

You realize of course that impeachment has been used in the 20th century.

(Here is an odd note- I perused a couple of historical sites on the Andrew Johnson impeachment. Historians seem to regard it more as political payback than justice (sound familiar?I'm thinking about what they did to Clinton). Now the wierd part is...

The Republicans were seriously ticked off at Johnson (AJ, that is) because he was unwilling to give African Americans in the South civil rights fast enough. Go Figure. Times change

[shadowknows69]

22. I think a lot of them know it.

and hold on to the hope that if they keep supporting them they'll be invited into the inner circle of "The Elite" someday. Sometimes just the potential for power corrupts absolutely.

[genieroze]

24. Two thirds have it's the one third that's retarded.