White people, white people, white people!!!

[Dawgs]

What is wrong with these fucking white people? Why do so many vote Republican; especially men. How do win them back?

I think this is a crucial part to us winning in 06' and 08.

When I was young(25 years ago), people like my grandfather were die hard Democrats. They voted for Democrats because they were pro worker, pro American, and pro military. Are white people so stupid that they let the Republicans change their minds? How do we get these people to understand that Democrats are better for all Americans?

It just makes me sad. :-(

BTW, I am a white 35 year old male.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. I see white people..... there's more than one way to be "dead". Brain

dead applies just as well as physical death. You could consider those who are not upset as not only not paying attention, but possibly of being dead from the neck up as well.

[liberalitch]

4. Bram Stoker wrote that "there are worse things than being dead"

Although he was talking about vampirism..... I'm sure it applies to heroin addiction and republicanism

[sam sarrha]

43. republicanism is an addiction to a dysfunctional perceptual format called

Apriori, where the conclusion comes first and the premise follows. This creates a logical loop that is ineffective in dealing with reality..

the problems it causes are externalized by the format itself and blamed on the scape goats.. the previous focus of the conclusion...

they have spent about 20 years brainwashing the public and changing the definitions of words and Emotionalizing words and concepts in a coordinated program to overthrow the country..

it isn't easy to get sanity back... the Saudis did a similar thing.. very similar.. and it is coming back to bite their balls off... a plague that will last for thousands of years..and cast much of the world into darkness.

[liberalitch]

2. i ARE a white person too....

And I often wonder the same thing.....
I know for some racism plays a huge part in it.... greed, maybe.
Lack of an active sex life coupled with insufficient relationships with mom and dad? I dunno....
Although I find black and/or gay republicans equally confusing (confused?)

[sam sarrha]

46. the difference is that liberals have Porn to sublimate with.. the uptight

RepugNuts with their iron clad morality get perverted, mean and cranky..

[donsu]

58. oh please - porn is not the savior of the world

the repugnuts have sex, it's just the kind they have to hide.

[sam sarrha]

81. laughter is still the best medicine..

[leftchick]

106. lol

I don't know. Jeffy Gannon seems to have alot of repuke sex in his closet and I would like to see it exposed.

[HillDem]

3. I think that is one of our biggest challenges

I think we need a strong leader who will break the stereotype of liberals being sissies. We need to get back to our blue collar base and convince them that they are really voting against their own interests by voting republican. We need to take back the word "liberal" and make it a good thing. And we need to show republican "populist" leaders for what they are: a bunch of elitist self serving conservatives who try to justify their greed with their policies.

BTW, I am also a white male, 19 years old

[Raydawg1234]

59. or we need to take the word conservative and make it a bad thing.

[More Than A Feeling]

129. Yes, I totally agree!

Some people here talk about "sane conservatives". But G.W. is the logical conclusion of a political philosophy based on selfishness. Electing people who agree with their "leave me alone, I've got mine, other people can hang, especially if they don't look and act how I think they should" ideas leads to government that cares only about itself, not the people who have elected it, and we are seeing the results of that. Conservativism simply does not work as a governing philosophy.

[RagingInMiami]

107. They perceive dems as weak

And the dems have proven them right.

[AirmensMom]

5. According to my sister and BIL,

it's the unions. That's what's ruining everything. Have to vote Republican so they don't support the unions. Nothing else matters to them. Oh, and they're white and racist. x(

[unblock]

7. except that it ain't the unions, it's the racism

if they're racist, then THAT's why they're voting republican.
everything else is just cover.

[AirmensMom]

22. They own their own business.

They don't want to be told how to treat their employees (he's a workaholic and expects everyone else to be). Believe me -- for them, the unions are a bigger deal than the racism. They also hate poor people, including their own family members. They think the people in NO got what they deserved, etc.:puke:

[dogfacedboy]

39. I have relatives like that, too.

At my last 4th of July BBQ, my righty sister-in-law started her usual shit, and it was the last straw. I told my wife that if she didn't ask her sister to leave, I was going to show the SIL the door in a not so nice fashion. My wife handled it, but then the SIL wanted to argue with me about it. She finally left, and she's no longer allowed in my home, at least until I grant permission.
My wife isn't happy about that, but until I receive an apology, in front of the entire family, I don't really care how my wife feels about this matter.

This man's home is his castle, bought and paid for with MY hard earned money (only $3,500 left to pay when I met my wife, so it is MY house), and no righty scum is going to speak down to ME in MY castle, and get away with it.

[AirmensMom]

52. Talk about fireworks!

I agree with you completely ... and congratulations on owning your home! :thumbsup: We're almost there.

[Robeysays]

124. hell yeah

[Proud liberal Kat]

115. unions

have earned their place in history and still have one in the present. But they can be just as predatory and wrong as anything else. I have seen them come into human service fields promising the sun and the moon to people and of course delivering nothing. Pay from the tax dollar is pay from the tax dollar (sure the state unions get better, though it makes me a bit ill as it is all cut from the same service dollar; I would like to see the focus on more money for all the disabled rather than for the unionized state workers.) But anyways. I consider myself very liberal and pro-labor, but in my personal life and field I have seen more harm than benefit from unions at work, and I think that is the problem. That as many gains have been made that the negatives of unions are more present in everyone's minds (Everything has its downsides) and less appreciation for the work of the past on the part of unions is present as many of us weren't aware of those struggles when they happened and they become just history.
Kat

[billybob537]

10. And they're scared

fear is the tool of tyrants. Unions gave us the 40 hr work week overtime pay, health insurance and most of the benifits we all take for granted now.
And i'm 47 white male, Pipefitters local union #537.

[AirmensMom]

27. That's true.

But since they own the business, they don't want to give those things to THEIR employees. They do whine about the cost of their health insurance ... but they blame that on all the uninsured poor people who get treated at the ER. :banghead:

[pretzel4gore]

11. except police unions....ever notice?

of course hypocrisy is perfectly ok if judging the naztypoohs....

[TallahasseeGrannie]

6. Sorry, I don't see

it as a racial divide at all. Ever democrat I know is white.

What I DO see is a gender divide. To many the Repubicans are the Can Do party. Want a war? WE CAN DO IT! Progress, apple pie, prosperity, and cuttin' a whole mess o' brush and throwin' it in the dualie.

Things like health care, jobs...women's work, don't ya know?

Don't worry your pretty little head about it. That pie ready yet?

[Kahuna]

16. You don't know any black people?

Sorry but you said every Democrat you know is white. That sounds like all you know is white people.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. About half the people in my life are black

because I live in the deep, deep south. Interestingly, many of them don't vote at all and some only vote local. Quite a few of them vote Republican because they are strong fundamentalists. With a couple of exceptions, all are strongly non-political.

I have one black friend who is an ardent dem. She's the only one that I know. She comes from an urban out-of-state area.

I'm not saying, now, that you can extrapolate my experience to the general population countrywide.

[Kahuna]

32. I apologize then. What you are saying about the profile..

of your black friends , especially the strongly non-political sounds like most of the black folks I know.

[Totally Committed]

18. I'm sorry, I don't see how you can say it's not racial after Katrina.

It is racial, first and foremost, imo. But, it's complicated. And, it is gender, but to a lesser extent. Please see my post downthread at #17.

TC

[TallahasseeGrannie]

38. Well, I think it SHOULD be racial

but in reality, I don't think it is,

Take Katrina...I have spoken about it to dozens of my black friends and NONE of them saw it as a black white issue. So many of us white folks hade the Wolf Blitzer thought "they are so very BLACK" but my black friends were like, "Well, yeah, it's New Orleans!" And then this might surprise you. I heard way more "blame the victim" mentality from my black friends. They were saying things like "they should have gotten out" to "Why didn't they have rafts in their attics" and all sorts of things that would have brought down flames here on DU. A white colleage (teacher) and I were bemoaning the treatment of the blacks in LA when our teacher's aide, an unmarried woman of about 50, chimed in, "You don't undertstand because you are white. Those New Orleans folks are sorry, have always been sorry. They didn't listen, they didn't bring food and they thought everything would be taken care of for them. Well it wasn't."

My colleague and I just stared at each other with our mouths open, at hearing this. We kind of sputtered and said, "ookkkay...if you say so."

Once again I put in the caveat, I live in a fairly rural area in the deep south, a place where my black friends and colleagues have lived for gnerations, some not ten miles from the original plantations that freed their ancestors.

[Proud liberal Kat]

116. I see some racial tones...

but I see more socio-economic. Racial tones get tied in due to history and socio-economic lows being cycles. I don't think the average American really gives a crap whether the poor are white or black as long as they stay out of their neighborhood seriously. I think there is race there definitely, but I think that economic hate is way more prevalent today.
Kat

[TahitiNut]

19. Then how do you explain ....

Over 80% of blacks are liberal/progressive and over 90% disapprove of Mortimer Smirk.
Only about 55% of males are conservative and only about 45-50% approve of C-czar Disgustsus.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

45. That's an interesting poll

and I don't have any explanation. Most of my black friends would not think of themselves as liberals or progressives. Even if they might vote democratic, I think they would consider themselves conservatives. Perhaps this is the church influence. Most of them are pretty distrustful of gay rights and abortion. On the other hands, I don't have any black friends who like or approve of our dear little fuhrer.

[zanne]

57. You're from the deep South, right?

If you live in a red, very conservative state, doesn't that mean that MOST people of any color will be conservative?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

70. Well, that is a good question

and maybe somebody can answer it.

I was under the impression via the polls that only 2% of Black folks approval of Bush. Now, does that translate out to progressive or Dems? Or just not voting? Good, good question.

[William Bloode]

85. The way it works in my part of the South is like so.

Most Poorer folks of both white, and black tend to be moderates. They would fall on the Democratic side for the most part(not very enlightened on some issues such as gay rights). Problem is for them is they don't vote. The reason being here in the South there has always been a distrust of government, and government actions. Which what i'm saying is they feel it does not matter what they think or how they vote, political fat cats and cronies will do what they want. It's almost like they expect the vote to be fixed, so why bother voting my vote won't really count for much. Not counting being discouraged to vote in many ways, which compounds the problem.

So what you end up with is mostly the upper middle, elderly, and upper class voting, And these guys trend very conservative. They attend the big shiny churches, drive the big cars, and look down their noses at the rest of us. These folks tend to be quite a bit more conservative, and it shows in the voting. This group is also much more organized in getting their vote out.

This situation in my area led to what i saw prior to last election. You could go door to door asking the opinion of everyone. You would actually find very little support for * and the administration from the whole. Yet when you remove us lower class people you get a voting block that is 60% or so in favor of *.

I think one of the biggest reasons the South is red is because we don't do enough to get the lower middle, and lower class to vote. Which is the majority. I just think in other areas theres more trust in the elective process, and better effort to get the underclass to the polls.

Things could really shift imo, if you could get these people to vote, and not think they are wasting their time.

[Dawgs]

24. Obviously not all white people are Republicans, but many more vote...

Republican.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/results/states/MI/P/00/epolls.0.html

[pretzel4gore]

36. in a way, you're right.....

if you read todd gitlin's 'twilight of common dreams' or michael lind's 'up from conservativism' you see this question approached by 2 very smart tough men who were rooted in the left (gitlin-he was part of the SDS and 'free speech' summer of love hippie movement who became very cynical) or the right (lind- he was one of the rightwing scholars/thinkers similar to kevin phillips who got his idealistic start with goldwater; ayn rand and milton friedman influenced him: leo strauss was what alerted him to the conjob and helped make him a cynic)...racism does play a role in the identification part (which thus creates the improbable spectacle of minimum wage slaves who see their kids sold in sex/drug bondage still identify with the white wallstreet billionaires before with their black/latino neighbor who suffers the same fate!) but 'divide and conquer' occurs also within the target white male group who (gitlin mentions that it was only once where the white male voter did not determine the US presidency-the election when ross perot divided the 'racist' vote and let bill clinton win, 1992)...the gist of all the blah blah is that while the free press and the 'concerned citizen activist' and all the loudmouths who direct the energy of our society fixate on haircuts, dress and out of context statements/bs/etc, they systematically ignore the fact the entire society is 'managed' mostly in secret, at vast public expense often by creating reactionary movements (see 'bussing') or undermining legality (see illegal drugs) to create police/cohersion controls and so on....the entertainment medium is used to warp the common idea of reality-one example is michael jackson, whose fame is almost entirely a media fabrication...all this says that while white men maybe the problem, they are the main victims too (noone can say that 'white man' has benefitted from the regan/bush revolution, unless getting a fix of heroin is the idea of a 'benefit')

[TallahasseeGrannie]

41. You raise good point

in a nutshell, it is WAY more complex than we might like to believe.

[JanMichael]

48. Uh...It's pretty well documented. Just because you're surrounded by...

...white Dems doesn't really mean much in the aggregate.

2004 Presidential Cross-tabs (CNN Exit Poll of 13,531 voters)

* Bush defeated Kerry 61-38% among white male voters. Bush also won white female voters 54-45%.

* Kerry won union households 60-39%.


For some screwy reason i can't find Black voting for 2004 but it was likely in the 90% range for Kerry.

The problem is with stupid White Men and their stupid Racist ways.

[H2O Man]

8. You are

still young. And you raise an important point: how come people vote republican when they really have nothing in common with the republican machine?

[Warren Stupidity]

28. I think this was covered pretty well in

'Whats the matter with Kansas'. Of course I haven't actually read the book, so I can't tell you what the answer is, but... er, Happy New Year!

[we can do it]

121. My Question Exactly

If I see one more dilapidated car wobbling down the road with a BooshCheney sticker I am gonna scream.

[billybob537]

9. Republicans talk tough

This appeals to stupid people.
Never mind the fact the republicans are, here to steal everything they touch.
" " teaching our children to hate steal and lie.
" " A cancer on moral value, and family values.
" " ethically challenged.
" " stuck in denial mode.
The Republican party only, has the power to remove the cancer from it's own body or die from it.
"Stay the course is their mantra" Even though 65% of Americans say we're on the wrong track.
It's time to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Republicans who wont learn from the mistakes of this Badministration will have to go.

[skylarmae]

12. large blocks of dems switched during the civil rights movement

and then again when the tobacco health hazards and advertising issues were finally evaluated and laws changed, thereby changing the tobacco industry dramatically. Then 25 yrs. ago just began the Reagan military machine, having been humiliated by the Iranians, and believe it or not, the Rove machine was alive and well then too. (Rove never thought Nixon should have been forced from office and that Presidential powers allowed Nixon to do whatever he f**king wanted to). At only 35 years old you missed tumultuous and radical changes that went down in the 60's and 70's racially and politically. It was an ugly time and much of the prejudice still lingers in the so-called 'heartland'. Actually, some might even say, we've come a long way, baby! Unfortunately, we still have a long way to go. IMHO

[bridgit]

13. you're trip'n...

why didn't the 'white people' who know better stand up and defy republicans when they had the chance, there's a great squishy middle that swings on a SNAP, a sound bite.

i think that most people are in the middle (not straddling a fence just balanced, in the center) but politicians have to be prepared to say, "enough" and then be prepared to reply to whatever comes next and i do mean whatever cause the other side always has some smart-ass thing to say always.

during their primary; that exchange between bush & mccain about the 'flyer under some windshield' (pure rovian dirty tricks by the by) left even mccain speechless. why? why was he speechless?

in this next go-round there can be no more excuses. the republicans running this dog & pony show are shitty, pissy & mean spirited and it is time for them to go; they must be called on it.

[brainshrub]

14. White people are dangerous to elect as Mayor! (I have the proof.)

It's true! I've done the research!

White people are dangerous to elect as Mayor.

The meme that black mayors are somehow are more prone to corruption than other groups is an incredibly racist one and obviously not based in reality.

Tom Bradley of Los Angeles, Maynard Jackson of Atlanta and Norman Rice of Seattle were all great mayors who served their respective cities with distinction; and yet, the first image that comes to the mind of many white Americans when you say "Black Mayor", is that of Marion Barry in a hotel room smoking crack.
Therefore, in the interests of fairness, let's go ahead and take a look at the most corrupt mayors in recent American history. What do they all have in common? (Hint: It isn't gender, age or political affiliation.):



<snip>

Entire article at: www.brainshrub.com/white-mayors

[MichiganVote]

15. Money, it takes money or the promise of money

[Totally Committed]

17. Testosterone Poisoning....

.... Just kidding! But, it's near the truth..... I think the answer to this (and this is going to sound very sexist on my part, but I think it's realistic, sadly) is to give them what THEY PERCEIVE as REAL MEN to vote for. That's why they vote Republican -- they perceive Republican women as soft, feminine, and submissive, and Republican men as strong, alpha male, and dominant. Strong women turn them off, bigtime. And men they persceive as "soft" turn them off even more than that. And, they think the Democratic Party is made up of wimp-ass men, ball-chomping women, who all want to take their goddam guns away from them, frankly.

What the Democrats have got to do is find a (being realistic) MALE candidate that is perceived as ALPHA, who will fight tooth-and-nail, and not take sh*t from anyone. I stress "perceived" because these White Males are all about the perception of masculinity, the perception of dominance... they want someone LIKE THEM. That's why the wimp-ass, brain-dead Republican males do so well with them. They look at George Bush and are able to feel they'd like to go and have a beer with him, swap stories, have a docile, sweet, smiling "little lady" like he does to go home to, and at the end of the day KNOW they could probably outhink him if they had to. They want someone to "take it to them Ay-rabs" and keep the women-folk safe. They want somoeone who will KEEP THEM RICH once they hit it big in the lottery. They want someone who won't waste their tax bucks on educating kids that don't look like theirs. And, they want somoene who is a Christian, like them. Sorry, but it's the truth, and before you start screaming about that, admit you know it's the truth.

I am not going to give you a candidate. I have my own, and I think he's the answer, and I will support his candidacy if he decides to run. He's PERCEIVED as Alpha Male, is a Christian, is a gun-owner, with a lovely wife (happily married for about 40 years), and doesn't take sh*t from anybody. But, his policies are those of a Liberal Democrat.... diplomacy before war is considered, economic and social justice, equality of opportunity, eradication of poverty, emphasis on education for all, and human rights. I think, while he isn't perfect (what human being is?), he's perfect for these times, and I will support him. Think about whom you will support if you think what I've written is true. Be realistic, is all I ask.

TC

[TallahasseeGrannie]

26. I agree with you

gender related issues are powerful and sometimes cannot even be articulated.

[Totally Committed]

33. That is SO TRUE, and very sad....

At the root of all the problems in society, there is a gender issue. But, it's like a huge heap. We have to take care of what's burying it first.

TC

[TahitiNut]

51. White Women favored Bush over Kerry in 2004 by 11% (55% to 44%)

Sounds like "estrogen poisoning" played a role as well. :eyes:

I have very little patience with the embedded sexism that pervades these threads. The fact of the matter is that conservatives are all about preserving the entitlements of the privileged. In today's America, due to the entitlements of inheritance, that's predominantly about race (we inherit race from our parents, not gender) - not primarily because we remain racists, but because the extreme racism of the past created social, political, and economic inequities that have been passed on from generation to generation because we venerate inheritance in our laws and social systems. People inherit poverty as much as (or more than) we inherit wealth!

It is to be expected that people, no matter their gender, race, creed, or ethnicity, will regard their privileges and entitlements as "righteous" and will act in a manner to preserve them. The difference between (mainstream) liberalism and (mainstream) conservatism isn't one of being opposed or in favor of inheritance - both favor passing on benefits to their children. The difference, therefore, is one of the degree to which our laws and customs favor inheritance ... the mechanism whereby the privileges (and corresponding injustices) of prior generations are passed on to later generations.

[CrispyQ]

119. "Don't Think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff

While 'framing' is the key issue discussed in this book, Lakoff discusses many of the framing issues in the context of the difference between Republicans strict father model & Democrats nurturant parent model. It's a great book & a quick read. I think you'd like it.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931498717/qid=1136209604/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5792740-7358366?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

[roseBudd]

20. Reagan created the perception that dems were for welfare for fat

lazy black women driving brand new cadillacs. The cadillac memme is still being mindlessly repeated by College Republicans. Right, wefare recipients can get car loans for brand new cadillacs.

[peanutbrittle]

21. The neocons have exploited their psych

Since OKC and the conspiracy that middle easterners were involved (which I actually believe they were along with our government AND BFEE ie MIHOP) and 9/11 the middle aged white male has been ready to "just drop the nuke" join the military and fight to defend our country.

There are many who vote with their wallet. In the Red states the big money bosses of the middle age republican male tell them that if a democrat gets into office you can kiss this economy goodbye. Developers, big construction companies, military and defense contractors, oil and gas companies all provide for the typical red state male. I.E. don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Many I talk to are sick of the welfare system being taken advantage of, therefore are against the safety net and social programs. Of course my defense is that we have to have a safety net and that there is more money that goes into corporate welfare than goes into social welfare.

In rural areas the average Joe Republican is not as informed as we who stay current with the issues the "what's the matter with kansas" mentality.

[peanutbrittle]

67. "Praise Jesus and pass the ammo"

Adding to my post, I would add THAT mentality as the fundamentalists have warped the moral standards through the bible belt.

Also before I get flamed, I am fully aware of the "red state" "purple state" election fraud issues but I had to have some way of typifying within the context of my post. So, should have said "pseudo red" or "most red of the purple"

Age differences in this group may come into play. The 35 age area doesn't remember Vietnam as well as someone like me in my latter 40's

[Nimrod2005]

23. I agree 100%...Drives me crazy to see middle aged WM

running things too...When he nominated Roberts, all I wanted to see was him NOT nominating a MAWM, but he did...I love to see minorities in politics, hispanics, women, and african americans.

What will these white man do when they are the minorities? mass suicide? it is going to happen around 2020 I think?

[Mr.Green93]

65. "What will these white man do when they are the minorities?"

There are six billion people in the world. Around 700 million are white. Something is wrong with this equation.

[No Exit]

29. Repuke propaganda has done to Democrats what the WH wanted to do

to Joe Wilson. The WH, especially Pigboy and Cowboy Scooter, sought to make their critic Wilson look like a "girly man" by sniggering about the falsehood that "his wife got him the job of going to Niger".

The repukes have succeeded in making their party a masculine party, and in depicting the democratic party a feminine party.

Now, obviously femininity is not a bad thing. I think the majority of men of all political stripes value it. But they don't want to HAVE it as a character trait.

It reminds me of that old book, "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche". At some point during the hype of that silly little book, it occurred to me that a better definition of "real men" would be stated thus: "Real men eat whatever the hell they want to eat." (Please! No double entendres! :) )

So I think the democrats have to get it across to men that if they REALLY wanna be bold manly men and all that, they needn't stick with a phony brand name, but should simply be whatever political party best serves their own personal interests. Which, for the majority of Americans, would of course be the Democratic party.

[dennisnyc]

30. you'd probably be interested to read t. Frank's book _What's

the Matter with Kansas?_ I found it fascinating especially after the Abramoff emails proved his thesis correct.

[hippiechick]

31. It's because the GOP platform plays off of basic human fears ....

... the same thing it's been doing since the end of the civil war. They created the socio-economic and racial divide by making the 'just well enough off' fearful of the 'white trash' and of the newly 'freed' blacks (toss in some immigrants, too) -- and vice versa until everyone is scapegoating everyone else, and the Fat Cats - the biggest threat to ALL other categories - have elevated themselves above the fray.

Everyone was (and is) afraid that 'those people' (anyone who is NOT them) are going to 'take whats theirs' and are all selfishly and fearfully fighting to maintain what they think they've got. They see the 'upstanding' white Republican 'authority figures' spouting shit about safety and religion and patriotism and up-by-the-bootstaps bullshit, and
a/ want to be like them and
b/ for some reason, trust them to 'keep the undesirables out' (of the workplace, neighborhood, school, whatever).

The book Prometheus Rising did a very good job explaining the base levels of (mental) existence and how some political parties appeal, almost literally, to Neanderthal instincts in folks because that basic survival instinct trumps any higher form of logic, reasoning, or nuanced problem solving (ie, voting Democrat or Indie).


:hi:

[No Exit]

34. I think this is a problem whose remedy must have 2 steps

Step 1: get these people out of the thrall of the repukelican party.

Step 2: convince them that today's democratic party will serve THEIR personal interests.

On some wingnut-ish boards where I used to post btw 2003-2004, I fancied I found some success in accomplishing Step 1.

Step 2? Need to put more guys like Murtha out there. There is no paunchy, middle-aged, white male in the country who would deny that he has SOMETHING in common with a guy like Murtha. (Even if the similarity is only in his beer-swilling mind.) They might even bestow on Murtha that very highest compliment that guys like this can bestow, which is "He's a good ol' boy..."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

35. white folks I know vote Dem

and some of them are reformed Republicans who have seen the light. I think the thing to do is reframe the argument of what government should do--the neocons have successfully duped many voters into thinking the tax cuts are for them, that the GOP is the party of morality.

As Dems we need to say that government should be there for folks when they need a helping hand, when they are in trouble. The tax money we pay in should go with deep gratitude and respect to veterans who have been wounded (both psychologically and physically). It should go to shore up our crumbling infrastructure and for truly making sure places like power plants are safe. These values-of support of those in need, comforting those who have sacrificed-these are following the teachings of Jesus and other prophets of many spiritual traditions. It is NOT moral to steal, to give to those who already have more than enough, to cheat. We have seen progressive ministers speak out on this subject-their message needs to be heard louder and louder-even if it means leafleting parking lots, painting signs and putting them on our cars, getting the message through highway signs.

[Totally Committed]

37. Where do you live?

Do you mind if I ask? If you don't want to give a specific answer, what part of the country are you in, and is it a Red State or a Blue State at present?

TC

[Dawgs]

42. I live in Georgia, if you're asking me.

Everytime I see a Bush bumper sticker there is usually a middle-aged white male behind the wheel.

[Totally Committed]

71. I was actually asking ayeshahaqqiqa...

but knowing you live in Georgia explains so much. I think people should take your post very seriously. You make a powerful point. Thank you for your answer, and for your original post. It takes courage to ask questions and pose points that attack the hard points and really the heart of the matter. Race, class, and gender are all at the heart of the decline of the Democratic Party, and we continue to decline because we refuse to believe that's true. Your moral courage in saying what's what should be applauded. We need to discuss this or we will continue to lose, and our country and the friends and families we leave behind living here when we are no longer here will suffer for it.

TC

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

63. Arkansas

in the Ozarks. It is really an interesting mix of people-environmentalists, libertarians, fundamentalists, New Agers. This part of the state elects the most conservative congressmen-even Bill Clinton was defeated by a guy who to this day proclaims Nixon's innocence and that he was framed. This is where WalMart headquarters is, and there is a fair sprinkling of millionaires around-I assume this is why is always goes repuke (area also known for folks buying votes, you see. No need for Diebold here-they steal elections the old fashioned way). My family, btw, is from Southern Illinois, well known to be solid Blue.

[Totally Committed]

72. Thanks for your answer.

I hope you continue to work to make sure the white folks there continue to vote Democratic. We need that trend to continue in your state and elsewhere if this country is to surive intact.

TC

[Saturday]

40. They vote Republican because

1. They don't like the welfare system.
2. They fear Democrats will take their guns away as the NRA tells them they will.
3. They like macho men. Even though Bush is a wimp he has been cast as a macho man in PR.

Lyndon Johnson told us long ago that the Civil Rights movement would cost Democrats the south for years. He was right.

[Burma Jones]

44. Good Points

and welcome to DU

[Saturday]

47. Thanks...

nice to be here.

[pretzel4gore]

54. because of the pigmedia

had the pigmedia not been so relentless in pushing their racist, misogynist worldview, progress could have been made, deep south and all. But Johnson knew the media was run by the pig, and johnson had no idea how to control it (PBS was set up to offset the pig, but you can see what happened to that!)..the fiction that the south is racist and only racist has long been debunked, by huey long among others...long knew that to raise the living standard of louisianians, a colour blind approach was necessary, in gov contracts etc black biz had equal opportunity- needless to say, huey was murdered in 1936)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

60. Welcome to DU!

:hi:
I think you are right, with these modifications:

1. They don't like the welfare system-for minorities. If a white man is on disablility, well, he deserves it. (They don't realize that the majority of people on welfare in this country are white and rural-I live in a rural area, and that's why I added what I did).

2. The NRA has so brainwashed them that a Democrat could come out to their land with all kinds of guns and ask to hunt and they'd still believe Dems want to take guns away.

3. Men that like macho men are themselves a bit shaky on their masculinity-I think this also translates into gay bashing as well.

[bumblebee1]

96. Here's another reason they vote Repuke.

Democrats will raise their taxes. Unfortunately, my dear sister and brother-in-law don't seem to realize that taxes will have to be raised in order to pay down this deficit run up by *. They must like the thought of their granddaughter/sons paying off this deficit.

[Maestro]

49. I'm white too and have voted Democrat since the late 80's.

But really I think that what * and the rethugs do is appeal to a few things that non-thinking, mostly apolitical people attach themselves.
1) Bravado - White men love to think they are strong and won't back down from a fight. That is great if you are actually protecting your family from harm; stupid if you take that bravado to horrific extremes and simply become a bully. * is a bully with the mightiest military in the world, but with no leadership skills.
2) Finances: The rethugs have got into these people that the government doesn't need your money. So we hear of tax cuts after tax cuts. They are very selfish in this regard. That is why any social programs lose funding under rethugs and rethugs always saddle the U.S. with huge amounts of debt.
3) Religion: There is nothing wrong with being spiritual, but this nut has taken that to extremes blurring the lines of the separation of church and state. Many white men and women feel the need to keep * where he is if only for the fact that many feel religion will take a back-seat in other party as it should.
4) Personality: I really feel a lot of white men are not threatened by *. He is a guy with whom they could have a beer. He doesn't put them off by being too intellectual like that evil guy Clinton or Kerry. :sarcasm: Showing that you are a Renaissance man is not good in politics. The Rethugs rarely put forth any candidate like that.

I suppose there is more but I am just waking up....BTW, I'm a 37 year old white male, from a military family whose parents have voted rethug all their lives but I recently got them to switch in 2000.

[yorkiemommie1]

118. good points

my dh is white, retired, but i see points #1 & 4 in him especially. the white males whom i know who are liberals don't seem to feel the need to prove their manliness .

[lpbk2713]

50. Repubs are the "Circle the Wagons" party.

They are deathly afraid that someone (or some faction) will get a bigger piece of the pie that they band together compelled by their own paranoia. And anyone that doesn't march in lockstep with them is "the enemy".

[derby378]

53. Just saw a list of "white power" rock songs...

Won't share the titles here. Some of them are just, well - ew.

Just Google "I got white pride" and you'll see what I mean.

[gizmo1979]

55. Why yes we are.

we are very stupid.We have an education too and we're still stupid.It's a sliding scale of stupidity though the further south you get the dumber we become.

[xchrom]

56. republicans have worked from the 1970's on this.

give some credit where credit is due -- and understand it as a campaign.

i've read a lot of naive or worse posts on this thread.

but what has happened has been calculated -- african americans{when not relegated to anecdotal stories} have been very aware of teh campaign that conservatives have waged for these many years.

and while it's fair -- and past time to talk about the {wanting?} character of the american people -- it's not right or fair to do it through the lens pf personal experience.

everyone always asks the extraordinarily impotent questions ''why this or that'' -- or your ''white people'' etc -- and these aren't bad questions per se -- but i see threads that are fairly empty that run down the history{i.e. leo straus, paul weyrich and the heritage foundation, grover norquist and the rise of the financial neocons and the pnac neocons}.

it's not an accident -- it has been a succesful campaign to play on the fears of certain self interested groups -- i.e. white men or fundies{they get here because of a concerted effort to get prayer back in school} and now the newest group fundy african americans afraid of gay marriage etc.

the way to combat this trend or trends -- is to dissect how we got there -- and fight fire with fire.

[Karenina]

73. TOR!

Fröhes Wissenheit und Richtige Verständnis, Du! Ich wünsche Dir Alles Gutes in 2006 und immer! :hi:

[xchrom]

100. thanks for that

sadly reading the rest of the thread after i wrote this -- not so many people understand what has happened -- or can't understand that it has happened by design.

perhaps imperfectly -- but the repukes had to work very, very hard just to reach political parity.

what's important to focus on ABOUT white people is the strategy employed to get them to vote repuke -- and it's history.

then you can discuss the character of americans in general -- an effort that is past time -- but i wonder if du can do it.
there's a lot to say -- but i dislike peoples ignorance of history when it comes to this topic.

[TNMOM]

61. Redefine christianity = win white vote

I don't think there is any doubt that the thugs have usurped christianity - or religion, in general - as their base. My white in-laws wouldn't vote for Kerry because they think numb-nuts is a morally superior.

To win, liberals have to re-frame the discussion on morality. The thugs have just one area they exploit well: sex (and other variations of 'threat-to-OUR-way-of-life' fears). The last time we did this well was when JFK successfully made humanity a moral obligation. By humanity - I mean aspiration to advance humanity to greater ideals.

It has universal appeal, whether you are black or white; rich or poor, male or female, gay or straight. Tapping the human potential, educating humanity, promoting a brighter future for the human race --- these are key elements to winning the American conscience.

[insane_cratic_gal]

62. We messed with their guns is what happened

It's a bigger issue then we care to talk about.

Look at gun owners, age group,race and sex.. and what section of the country they live in.
Look at the majority of who is part of the NRA

It's a myth to some extent, NRA tells their members that democrats mean to take their gun rights away. My dad is a members he says it's what is preached at the NRA.

While we agree that assault weapons should of stayed banned he also feels if you chip away at one right less is there to support the founding right of the Constitution. He voted republican, but thought that Bill Clinton was decent President.

It's a point of contention between us, how he voted. During Christmas, I made him promise to not vote party lines, but to vote for a anyone who promised to get out of the mess the republican party has made. I made him promise to research the candidate and not listen to fox news. I asked him why he would vote against his interest by electing a Republican, he didn't have a good answer but he could tell you a 1,000 things wrong with the democratic party. The next conclusion is we have failed on some level to define republicans as they have us.

We need to point out their ugly deeds and flaws. We do it here, but we need to do to a lager audience. Maybe with Air America we can gain some ground we've given up over the years. We've been too passive, taking the high road, now is the time to call it like we see it. No more DLC melting of the party, no more passive behavior while they push us around. They turned Liberal into a nasty word, we need to define the Conservative party of Greedy elite heartless bastards that they are.

[TrueAmerican]

64. As a white male

I find your comments racist and offensive. I see your username is also "Dawgs". Are you one of those wannabe white rappers too?

[Totally Committed]

77. TrueAmerican, I very respectfully disagree.

The people left to die in New Orleans were poor, overwhelmingly Black, and unlike most of the rest of the voters in their state, Democrats.

As someone who worked very hard for Civil Rights in the 60's, I know for a fact this Party made promises to minorites and women then that have gone unkept to this day. It is time for this Party and the people in it (and since it is men that still govern, for the most part, the men in it more than others) to step up to the plate, and talk about race and class and gender honestly and openly. The dialogue has got to begin in earnest, and if white people -- men, in particular, are too "offended" by even the questions, the answers will never be found.

The OP and the person who wrote it posed a very important question, and the discussion needs to begin. The OP is not "racist", but this country and our Party stll are. Please try and put your discomfort and perceived offense aside, jump in, and help answer the questions. They are important if we are ever to be an equal-opportunity Party as we claim ERRONEOUSLY to be.

TC

[Deja Q]

66. Why do gays vote republican? Or blacks? Why is everything TWO-SIDED?

Why is pithy good? (it sure as hell ISN'T.)

1994 - the 'contract with america'. I also know people who saw little newt "I divorced my wife when she was in hospital" gingrich on the news this morning and loved what he said about not defending the undefendable. :eyes:

People are geniuses for being led. It's as simple as that.

[bumblebee1]

97. I had a friend in CA

who absolutely loved Newt Gingrich. Her response to "Newt divorced his first wife when she was lying in a hospital bed with cancer?" I don't want to hear that!

[stop the bleeding]

68. Why do rednecks vote republican?? Thats like chickens voting for Col.

Sanders....

Saw this on a another DUer's bumber sticker that lives in my hood.

Very fitting phrase.

[Straight Shooter]

69. Apathy versus empathy.

Republicans are the party of apathy. They hold high the banner of sacrifice, as long as they aren't the ones doing the sacrificing. Republicans don't care. Their role model is God, and, I'm sorry to say, despite what people say that "God is love," I consider the God of the Bible to be self-righteous and megalomaniacal to the point of schizophrenia. I cannot love such an entity, much less worship it.

Democrats are the party of empathy. The hold high the banner of altruism, where we all sacrifice some, in order that some do not have to sacrifice all. Democrats care. Their role model is Jesus, who practiced tolerance tempered with wisdom, who judged not but healed with compassion, who saw through the hypocrisies practiced by those in power and sought to equalize all members of society. I consider Jesus to be the archetype of what a human being can aspire to. I can love Jesus, at least the idea of Jesus and his teachings.

Simplified: Republicans want to be like God. Democrats want to be like Jesus.

[zalinda]

74. Most people are too busy to care

They get their news from either local TV, local paper, or gossip. Gossip is the biggest one, as it spreads all kinds of lies. Just look at the Saddam/9-11 connection. Even now, 22% still believe that Saddam caused 9/11. There was a big article in our paper, in June before the 2004 election, stating there was no connection. Yet, my friend, voted for Bush because there has been no terrorist strikes since Bush went into Iraq and got Saddam. He was very surprised when I told him there was no connection.

Face it, most people are like my son and his girlfriend, they don't care about politics if their life is going okay. My son does vote because I sort of make him vote, and he does vote dem, but that doesn't mean he is interested in who is running the country.

My sister lives in Ark and works in a convenience store there. She hears all the gossip and she believes half of what she hears to, even though she is mostly dem. It went all around the state that the NO survivors were taking limos to buy $700 shoes, that they were just sitting on their butts, and refusing jobs just so they could live the "good" life at the center. This, she believed.

For all the bad or no press that he had, John Kerry did remarkably well. If the repubs had played fair in the voting process, we would have him or Gore as president now.

The dems, now, get very little or no press. It's change the perception of the dem party, change the voting, and change the press, or the repubs will stay in charge.

zalinda

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. 50 Million People Voted For Kerry. I Would Wager That Quite A Few Of Them

were white.

Sorry, but I think your post is misguided.

[insane_cratic_gal]

78. I think your missing the point of the OP

he's stating that a larger percentage of republican party is white males.

Women (of all walks of life) typically represent a majority democrats and african american men are a huge part of the democratic party

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. I got the point, I just think the point is misguided, foolish, broad brush

and ignorant.

[TrueAmerican]

82. Thanks for a Sane voice

If I would say Hispanics were stupid for voting for Bush in Texas, I would be deemed a racist.
But somehow it's okay to stero-type white males.

[insane_cratic_gal]

84. Ya because the white race is so persecuted

:eyes:

No one is burning anyone at the stake, we are talking facts it's your choice to become offended by those facts or not.

You've decided to be offended, you could of had an active part in the discussion as to why the facts are as they are but you've both chosen to slam the OP vs discuss why the majority of white men voted for Bush.

So lets have your opinion and not your scorn.

[TrueAmerican]

91. Offended? Scorn?

"What is wrong with these fucking white people?.... ; especially men."

Hmm, whom is scorning who? Why should I debate a racist, self hater?

[insane_cratic_gal]

93. Sometimes we have to look past

crude vocabulary to the facts of the opinion piece?

I'm not defending OP personally, I merely looked at some of the statics and couldn't find fault with what he said (except fucking white people, but he's from NJ =) lol j/k) the fact still remained. Generalized as the facts may be I think he was wondering what we could do as a party to send a wake up call to those voters.

You can contribute what you will, as you see fit, I have no right to tell you shouldn't.

I'm done ruffling feathers for today, I hope i didn't ruffle too much.

[Dawgs]

94. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

:crazy:

Someone's (TrueAmerican) touchy. Relax man, this thread was meant to start a discussion about the base of the Republican party, nothing else.

[TrueAmerican]

99. I have no need for a discussion invovling name calling

and juvenile behavior.

If you want that, you should post over at freerepublic.

[Dawgs]

101. Okay. What was juvenile by what I said?

Saying that I'm sick of stupid white male Republican voters seems to fit DU just fine. I don't care what color they are; it just seems like that is one group of people that doesn't get it.

I wasn't attacking the white male race, or white people, or whites in general.

How many ways do others in this thread and myself have to explain it?

[insane_cratic_gal]

83. Nothing ignorant about stating a fact

Nor wondering where we need to focus some attention.

We may not like it, but the majority of this party that carried us was african american... 88 percent voted for Kerry. 88 percent! Granted they only represented 11 percent of the vote, but a hard won 11 percent. If you saw what happened in OH you'd see that.

White (77%) Bush 58% (+4 gain though probably diebold) Kerry 41%

African-American (11%) Bush 11% (+2) Kerry 88%

Latino (8%) Bush: 44% (+9) Kerry: 53%



Kerry lost the white vote for both men and women

White Men (36%) Bush 62% Kerry 37%

White Women (41%)Bush 55% Kerry 44%

I dunno it's difficult to say, I still think the election was rigged, so can't honestly lend an opinion but I can state was the facts are (misconstrued or not)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

87. "majority of this party that carried us was african american" DEAD WRONG

That statement is 100% wrong and equally misguided. Let's use some fact based logic rather than emotional rhetoric shall we? Hell, I'll even use your numbers.

White (77%) Bush 58% Kerry 41%

African-American (11%) Bush 11% Kerry 88%

Latino (8%) Bush: 44% Kerry: 53%

Using the total of 121,068,715 votes cast, that extrapolates out to the following:


White votes for Kerry: 38,221,393

Black votes for Kerry: 11,719,452

Hispanic votes for Kerry: 5,133,314

Looks to me that the white vote was 3.26 times MORE than the black vote, so claiming that the black vote is what carried us is absolutely ludicrous and ignorant.

[insane_cratic_gal]

89. Its not me getting emotional

your ludicrous facts and ignorance comments are "emotional" and trying to bait me into a flame fest.

You cherry picked what I wrote: Granted they only represented 11 percent of the vote, but a hard won 11 percent .. (re read it) that is there and you skipped right over it to throw me to the wolves.

11 % but of that percentage 88 percent voted Kerry.

I am using logic your just choosing to be offended and confrontational.

Most the time I agree with what you've written, today on this topic I just don't agree. I'm not emotional or invested at all.

being white bread from the north I have more reason to be uppity about it but it was minorities that carried this party.

Personally i think people are just people, but what do I know.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

90. I'm Not Trying To Bait You.

I'm a bit testy from my hangover this morning, so my apologies if I'm being overly confrontational. My point is that millions and millions of white people voted democratic, and I find flaw in the argument that as a majority the white people are the ignorant ones that need to be woken up. I don't like labels and generalizations. The fact is the majority of voters are white (as can be seen), so of course that would be where the biggest gains could be found. I think it is foolish to categorize it as a race issue. I guess we will agree to disagree. Please understand I meant no harm, I just get always get bothered when things get overly generalized such as "what is wrong with white people". There was nothing wrong with almost 40,000,000 white people, that's all.

:hug:

[insane_cratic_gal]

92. Truce and respect for the hangover!

You are correct there is an amount of generalizing.

It's a class issue, education issue, race, gender, and religion issue.

Your right in pointing out they decided to pick just one and focus in.


Hope you feel better! Bloody Mary, Aspirin, lots of water and a nap =)

[TahitiNut]

95. I completely agree.

:thumbsup:

[many a good man]

76. The value of whiteness

"What's the Matter with White Folks" by Tim Wise is the best article I've ever read on this topic. Read it here: http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/feat_wise_whitefolks_p.htm

Written primarily as an answer to Frank's "What's the Matter with Kansas?", he convincingly shows that attachment to the system of white privilege motivates voting behavior (systems of religious and cultural preference round out the analysis). "Anxious" whites are willing to vote against their own class interests to maintain the preference system.

LBJ famously said that he lost the South for a generation when he signed the Civil Rights Act. Forty years have since passed and its still lost. As someone who came of age during the "Reagan Revolution," I saw first hand how many blue collar traditional dems in the north jumped the fence and started voting Republican. These "angry white males" have been instrumental in continuing GOP dominance.

In the 60s and 70s liberals worked assiduously to end the system of white male privilege in America and a backlash ensued that continues to this day. Quotas, affirmative action, busing, welfare queens driving welfare Cadillacs, Willie Horton, women's rights and gay rights have all been shoved down our throats by the Republican noise machine. Cherished myths about America have been challenged and proven to be false.

The decline in living standards has been caused by conservative, pro-corporate economic policy but is attributed by many whites to the liberal effort to end the system of white male privilege. Many whites falsely believe we now live in a land of minority privilege instead now. I think it will take a few more generations before we can turn these people around.

Democrats have not captured the majority of white male voters in 40 years. White women are the crucial swing vote. Democrats can't win without that demographic.

[bettyellen]

104. Bingo. That kinda covers every reason i have heard from middle class

people white and black, who have voted Republican.

That's why it hurts to see them put reproductive rights on the back burner. they need us women, and they had better wake up to that fact.

[TheBaldyMan]

79. but the dems won the last two elections

rather than win over thr RW you should sort out the electoral oversight in the US

[butterfly77]

86. Because white men rather see Iraqis and people in other countries..

have equal rights rather than their own countrymen and women.

[Raydawg1234]

88. Personally, I blame it on all of those damn purple people.

[MissMarple]

98. Many of them are now filing for bankruptcy...they are flooding the courts.

I wonder if they make any connection with the new bankruptcy law and their personal choices of politician and political party.

[Joey Liberal]

102. Because they are morons

And I'm "Caucasian" too:).

[Kurovski]

103. Forgive me if someone already posted this:

maybe it's because the Dems don't give the perception that they work hard enough for the regular workers who comprise the majority of Americans.

I know they work harder then Repubs, but it's the perception thingie.

Joe Biden and other Dems voted against working stiffs with the bankruptcy bill. They voted against Workers who are in financial straights due to illness and other unforeseen hardships.

They have to knock that crap off or just go cross the isle already. They drag down the message and goals of the Democratic Party.

[mzmolly]

105. We do have to find a way to reach them. I think our society breeds

all sorts of dysfunction in white males BTW. They are the privileged class and want to keep it that way, thus the "Vote Republican" mantra.

[Clara T]

108. What's the Matter with White Folks?

What's the Matter with White Folks?

by Tim Wise

A simple glance at the history of this country makes it all too clear that whites, in particular, have been willing to overlook their class interests for the sake of racial privilege. Working-class whites did this in the South when elites convinced them to fight for a slave system that undercut their own economic well-being; they did it again during the emergence of the labor movement when, fearing the racial solidarity in wages that unionism would bring, they fought to keep their unions all-white.

In other words, white supremacy has long offered whites an alternative identity, apart from their class status, around which to rally. As UCLA law professor Cheryl Harris puts it, whiteness is a form a property every bit as valuable to those who possess it as the material goods they might receive by voting for more progressive candidates. This is not false consciousness, in other words, but alternative consciousness: the prioritizing of non-fiscal interests by people who have been offered alternative benefits by a system of racial inequity.
So if whites—even those whose economic status is vulnerable—come to view progressive government policies or candidates as threats to their hegemonic status and control (whether through immigration, affirmative action, welfare and social service programs, or even a foreign policy that is insufficiently belligerent to non-white terrorists), it ought not surprise us that such folks might ignore their true class interests and vote instead for what they view as their other interests, including those that are in effect conceived in racial terms.

<snip>

While black men might logically view the greatest challenge to their patriarchal manhood as systemic—the inability, thanks to a racialized class system, to provide for their families—and thus vote in more progressive fashions, white men, whose ability to serve as providers tends to be more secure, have the luxury of viewing the biggest threats to their manhood in decidedly gonadal terms: threats from feminists, homosexuals and such.

http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/feat_wise_whitefolks_p.htm

[Bouncy Ball]

109. I'm white, too, and I can't explain it to you.

:shrug:

[Yavin4]

110. I Have An Answer For You. Please Read.

Following WWII, we dominated the world's economy. The average White male with just a high school degree or even less could easily get a middle class paying job, and with one salary, he could take care of his entire family. By the late 60s and early 70s, our dominance of the world's economy came to an end, and no longer could anyone with just a high school diploma get a middle class paying job.

The Republicans used their massive propaganda machine to get White males to believe that it was the social movements of the 60s, Civil Rights and Feminism, that was to blame for their economic plight instead of a major shift in the global economy.

In fact, what drives all non-wealthy groups to vote Republican is a desire somehow to recreate the 1950s where low-skilled workers could easily become middle class property owners with one paycheck. The Republicans feed this fantasy as it fades farther and farther away.

How to win them back? Be honest with them. Tell them that the 1950s are over, and they're never coming back. Talk about the challenges of the global economy and what it means for them.

[peanutbrittle]

112. Your post really helps me

put it into historical perspective which I was lacking. It goes along with what I posted above more in todays context.

Thanks,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1009&mesg_id=1054
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1009&mesg_id=1055

[Dunvegan]

111. Democrats: We need to get back to our roots...

...get side by side with the working people who are Republican yet most affected by the Republican rip-off.

From "What's the Matter with Kansas?" by By Thomas Frank.

Democratic political strategy simply assumes that people know where their economic interest lies and that they will act on it by instinct. There is no need for any business-bumming class-war rhetoric on the part of candidates or party spokesmen, and there is certainly no need for a liberal to actually get his hands dirty fraternizing with the disgruntled. Let them look at the record and see for themselves: Democrats are slightly more generous with Social Security benefits, slightly stricter on environmental regulations, and do less union-busting than Republicans.

The gigantic error in all this is that people don't spontaneously understand their situation in the great sweep of things. Liberalism isn't a force of karmic nature that pushes back when the corporate world goes too far; it is a man-made contrivance as subject to setbacks and defeats as any other. Consider our social welfare apparatus, the system of taxes, regulations, and social insurance that is under sustained attack these days. Social Security, the FDA, and all the rest of it didn't just spring out of the ground fully formed in response to the obvious excesses of a laissez-faire system; they were the result of decades of movement-building, of bloody fights between strikers and state militias, of agitating, educating, and thankless organizing. More than forty years passed between the first glimmerings of a left-wing reform movement in the 1890s and the actual enactment of its reforms in the 1930s. In the meantime scores of the most rapacious species of robber baron went to their reward untaxed, unregulated, and unquestioned.

An even more telling demonstration of the importance of movements in framing people's perspectives can be found in the voting practices of union members. Take your average white male voter: in the 2000 election they chose George W. Bush by a considerable margin. Find white males who were union members, however, and they voted for Al Gore by a similar margin. The same difference is repeated whatever the demographic category: women, gun owners, retirees, and so on – when they are union members, their politics shift to the left. This is true even when the union members in question had little contact with union leaders. Just being in a union evidently changes the way a person looks at politics, inoculates them against the derangement of the backlash. Here, values matter almost least of all, while the economy, health care, and education are of paramount concern. Union voters are, in other words, the reverse image of the Brown-back conservative who cares nothing for economics but torments himself night and day with vague fears about "cultural decline."

While leftists sit around congratulating themselves on their personal virtue, the right understands the central significance of movement-building, and they have taken to the task with admirable diligence. Cast your eyes over the vast and complex structure of conservative "movement culture," a phenomenon that has little left-wing counterpart anymore. There are foundations like the one operated by the Kochs in Wichita, channeling their millions into the political battle at the highest levels, subsidizing free-market economics departments and magazines and thinkers. Then there are the think tanks, the Institutes Hoover and American Enterprise, that send the money sluicing on into the pockets of the right-wing pundit corps, Ann Coulter, Dinesh D'Souza, and the rest, furnishing them with what they need to keep their books coming and their minds in fighting trim between media bouts. A brigade of lobbyists. A flock of magazines and newspapers. A publishing house or two. And, at the bottom, the committed grassroots organizers going door-to-door, organizing their neighbors, mortgaging their houses even, to push the gospel of the backlash. And this movement speaks to those at society's bottom, addresses them on a daily basis. From the left they hear nothing, but from the Cons they get an explanation for it all. Even better, they get a plan for action, a scheme for world conquest with a wedge issue. And why shouldn't they get to dream their lurid dreams of politics-as-manipulation? They've had it done to them enough in reality.

(Edited to correct link.)

[ddeclue]

113. 39 YO white male from South : It's racism"

At least IMHO - A lot of it is racism, testosterone poisoning and religious wing-nut brain-washing.

They don't reason or have basic critical thinking skills or choose to intentionally ignore the facts when it conflicts with their racial prejudices, religious prejudices or testosterone poisoning..

(You'll head a lot of them put it as God Guns and Guts...)

Democratically Yours,

Doug D.

[tomreedtoon]

114. Because the Democratic Party forgot poor whites.

There is a nice post over on bushflash.com that explains it. Here it is...

http://www.bushflash.com/index2.html

The guy made a trip into Mississippi to see his relatives. He passed into towns, villages and lone houses haunted by Republican-created hell...but their cars all had Bush stickers on.

Why? Because the Democratic Party cared more about the big cities and urban areas than the lone little communities. The Party allowed Republicans to bully them into cutting things like subsidies for education and support of our poorest citizens. Then, the Republicans hit those poor areas with the anti-black, anti-gay, pro-Christian messages. In other words, the Repub's beat them with one hand and smoothed their weary heads with the other.

And the Democrats let them get away with it, because it was more fun to party it up in the cities and pretend that they were still the party of Roosevelt. And it was so easy to dismiss those savaged, abused people as "hicks" and "inbred" and "stupid."

And there's a lot of progressives who continue to do the same. Tom Tomorrow (who I always think of as "Yonny Yesterday") gets a real charge out of kicking the people who were deluded into voting for Bush. Or for that matter, anybody who doesn't follow exactly what Tom Tomorrow says. I'm sure it gives him a great sense of satisfaction...and contempt like his will assure that those people will still vote Republican for decades to come.

[hopeisaplace]

117. they have an inflated version of self-worth !!

..that's my take.
IMO, they think if they vote republican they will become Bill Gates or something..
or people will automatically think they're rich when they 'proudly announce
their political choice'. I think the opposite, when someone announces they are
a republican, I immediately assume they don't read.

IMO: There's only one solution. Make it REALLY embarrassing to be, say, or vote
Republican...Need the media to join the ride on that one. The media did that very
thing with being a Democrat during Clinton's BJ days. Of course, it appears
reporters were given free-rain on Clinton because their Corporation's ultimate goal was
to acquire a Republican Government to get Corporate tax breaks and whatever else these
Corporation's get from having a Republican Government..that's what I'm thinking anyway.



edit: grammer

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Armstead]

123. What the hell are you talking about?

The "far left" has too much say? And is none of the above?

That sounds like classic GOP Right Wing Spin.

Sure, some people on the left may fit into your handy stereotype. But it is a relative minority, and there is nothing wrng with different personal styles.

The REAL problem is the branding of basic economic liberalism and progressive populism as "far left" and that otehr nonbsense. By your shallow definition, the Joe Lunchbucket of the 1960's would be branded as a "radical leftist socialist" today.

[Hippo_Tron]

126. Bullshit

Clinton and the DLC are the ones who screwed over the American worker. They refused to push for single payer universal healthcare which would have made healthcare available to all Americans at a much lower cost than what they pay for it privately. He signed countless trade agreements that were written with the benefit of corportions in mind and not people. And then to add insult to injury he signed a welfare reform bill so that people the people he already screwed over could be screwed over some more.

All the while people like Russ Feingold and Paul Wellstone (people who you would call the far left) opposed him the entire way.

I'm for moving America to the center as well. The problem is that America's political scale has been tipped so far to the right that what most consider the center is only slightly left of the corporatists and the neocons.

People need to wake up and realize that while capitalism is the best economic system that here is, it is still incredibly flawed. In a capitalist system there is ALWAYS going to be poverty. A real "centrist" government has things like universal healthcare, a minimum wage, and well funded public education to balance out the negative effects of capitalism. The people you call the "far left" are the real centrists.

Now, let's keep going. First off, tell me who exactly the "far left" are and how they are anti American and anti military.

[Bridget Burke]

131. Please--do define the Far Left for us....

And give us some examples of how the "Far Left has too much say"....

[robbedvoter]

132. um...does someone else smell PR BS?

Force, huh? Some entrance on DU!
BTW, the Warner threads spring now to a tune of 5 a day - and I still have to understand: what would make someone want to get up in the morning and say: "mmmm...Warner ...I think I'll post a thread on DU about the great feeling he gives me....Mmmm, center!

[Armstead]

122. One reason is the Democrats no longer stand for economic democracy

The reason so many white working men supported the Democratic party was because they knew the "liberals" stood for protecting their own economic rights. But since the Democratic Establishment jumped into the same corporate bed as the GOP, that reason is gone.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x33541

[Greyhound]

127. That is the most succinct, accurate, portrayal I've read in quite some tim

[bobbieinok]

125. think dems will 'take their guns' and 'kill babies' (abortion)

[More Than A Feeling]

128. I think it's because we have advantages we are unconscious of

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html
http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html

making things more equal for everyone makes some of the people already at the top feel threatened.

P.S. I am also a white male.

[noiretextatique]

130. whiteness shields them, or so they think

per the propaganda of the RW, which use the symbolism of the "other" (willie horton, welfare queens, terrorists, liberals, non-xtians, women, etc) to give some a false sense of security. tim wise and others talk about the powerful appeal of whiteness, and the the fact that many white americans reject the notion of that concept as privilege in their lives. i see it as a continuation of the same type of terrorism that produced jim crow after slavery instead of integration. it also applies to over groups as honorary whiteness. i'm sure OJ understands what i'm talking about now that he doesn't have that status anymore.
i agree with others about the complexity of the issue, and i don't deny the economic/class compenent, but social construct of whiteness is a part of the dynamic.

[radio4progressives]

133. It's Rooted in White Supremacy ...

That's what the border thing is about, that's what the electronic voting machines are about, and that's what Ronald Reagan helped Republicans figure out. that's where this phenom started in this era.