Babysitting.

[ThomCat]

A post on a thread has me thinking, and I thought of something that I should have realized many years ago.

When I was a teen I was in one of those towns were almost everyone was poor. I did odd jobs to earn money. One of the jobs I did was Babysitting. I think there was a shortage of teen girls doing babysitting for some reason. I rarely had any shortage of work. And that is what I was just thinking about.

In 20 years, It never occurred to me looking back that this was odd, a boy getting a lot of work babysitting.

One couple I babysat for had a job transporting people with developmental disabilities to and from a school. It required them to be away from home all weekend for the part of the year that the school was in session. So I would move into their home from Friday night until Sunday night throughout that whole part of the year. They had 3 young girls.

Who would let a 16 year old boy move into their home to watch 3 young girls for 2 days and nights at a time, every week? Would you?

That's a hell of a lot of trust. I can't believe I never realize that. I'm just realizing that I took that trust for granted. :(

I now wonder if they knew I was gay before I did, and figured they could trust me because of that. They never had anyone else come over to check up on me while I was babysitting that I know of.

I'm sure they talked to their daughters to make sure I was a good babysitter. I got along well with them. They wanted to be left alone, so I became very good at keeping my distance but always being nearby to keep my eye on them.

The three of them entertained each other and I mostly just read books and did some housework. But when they needed a referee for something I was the ref. When they wanted to do things like build snow forts I got to build it for them and then be the "enemy" under a hail of snowballs.

So, if you don't mind, let's talk about who is trusted to watch children. Feel free to take it far beyond just the scope of babysitting, but this is a good place to start.

20 years ago most people thought gay people shouldn't be allowed near children. Yet, the only reason I can come up with why that couple allowed me to watch their daughters is because they must have had good "Gaydar" and figured I was gay and therefore safe to be around their daughters. They didn't know me before interviewing me to babysit for them and they didn't know my family at all. :shrug:

To what extent would you trust a boy to babysit?

To what extent would you trust any teen to babysit?

[lukasahero]

1. Not much time

but I just thought this as I was moving on to other things thinking I would give your post some thought.

My first reaction was that, of course, I would let a boy babysit - without question. And as I started to think about that I realized that it is because I would not let anyone near my children (if I had any) or even my dog (which I do have) without knowing them, their family, their values etc and having fully assessed their character.

Of course that doesn't guarantee nothing could ever happen but I do think it improves the odds.

[ThomCat]

2. I'm guessing that if we polled people,

that would be a minority opinion.* I think that most people wouldn't like to have a boy babysitting. Especially babysitting girls. If I posted that in GD I am pretty sure a real flame-war would erupt. Which is why I didn't post it there.



*Not that I think you're really care whether or not people agree with you. I'm sure you're used to that a lot of times. We've all gotten used to it, I'm sure. :)

[lukasahero]

3. Hee

Oh, I have no doubt you're right about me being in the minority (for both my choice of allowing boys and for doing my research about who I let take care of my kids/animals/house...)

My perspective may also be skewed by virtue of the fact that I have 3 nephews. If I didn't have boys in my life, would I think differently?

And no worries, Thom. I'm ALWAYS in the minority here. :)

[ismnotwasm]

4. To the extent

They don't come across as overly damaged little shits.

With that qualification, and having a lot of experience with teenagers, I would be more leary of a straight male ONLY because of the prevailing version of what constitutes masculine behavior. Truth to tell, If I don't hear sexist or homophobic language in the course of a discreet conversation, and if they can HAVE a conversation--showing interest in the world-- I trust kids. Most kids are just kids, Gay or straight. What they have to deal with, especially Gay teens is another thing entirely.

I used to have one Gay young man babysit for me, actually stayed with me for a bit. He lived in a small town (I was essentially just passing through, a restless period in my life) his Cowboy father was horrified at him being Gay. I hope having a little acceptance in his life helped, he was in a lot of pain, but I'll never know.

[ThomCat]

5. I hope that helped him too.

I can imagine what kind of position he was in. :(

I hope he escaped.

That was an incredibly good thing you did for him.

Your post does a good job of showing that quite a lot of judgment, a lot of IFs goes into judging someone for caring for a child, though it can be boiled down pretty casually into a few sentences. :)

Not too damaged. Able to have a conversation. Shows interest in the world. Not sexist or homophobic.

I wonder how many teens would think they qualify. :P

But surprisingly, many do. A lot of kids are good kids. A lot of attitudes towards teens are negative hostility and bias against them that I don't think teens deserve.

[bliss_eternal]

6. is it possible...

...that you could be underestimating the desperation of some parents? :shrug:

which isn't to say, someone would have to be desperate to ask a guy to babysit....and certainly not to ask you--:blush: as i get the sense you give off a good vibe, which is why one would be inclined to ask you to babysit. that, and one can tell when someone genuinely enjoys being w/kids, in a positive way (not to get some sick thrill, of course)...and it's also obvious when children enjoy or like a certain person, feel comfortable with them, etc. you are probably just that kind of person, thomcat. :)

for some parents, i've encountered (thankfully, not many) it's just a matter of a body, w/a pulse, who seems capable, clean, likes kids, kids like and respond to them, etc. they don't care about much else. they don't bother to try to learn anything about the person beyond that. i've seen it personally. it's not something i would feel inclined to indulge in (which is probably why i don't have children--i don't have any sources of child care, and trust absolutely no one, lol).

but i've seen it...more than i'd like to. this sort of desperation (and blind trust) didn't exist, you'd never see reports of children being molested by some trusted guy in the neighborhood, or a teacher entrusted w/the child, or soccer coach, or children's volunteer, etc. :(

[ThomCat]

8. I think a hell of a lot of people are a lot more desperate

for childcare than anyone really talks about. The more I wonder, the more I think desperation was what originally got that couple to call me.

I wonder how many parents are so desperate that it is the desperation that leads them to the blind trust. They feel they have no choice but to trust the people nobody in their right mind would ever trust. :(

How many molestations would be avoided if we only had childcare options and funding?


Yes, I give off a vibe of being a big kid myself. Until recently when the disability made it impossible, I loved to get down on the floor and play with the kids toys/games with them. You hit a nail there. I didn't think of that. :P

I still babysit for friends kids and the landlord's nephew occasionally. I still have toys around the house that I let the kids play with when we babysit. I have all my superhero toys from my comic book collecting days, and a small teddy bear collection (with superhero and jedi costumes, of course) and other cool geek toys. A collection of cartoon DVDs. etc. They're mine! But I share. Yes, I'm a still a big kid.

[bliss_eternal]

13. aha--i had a feeling...!

...you're like my dh, another big kid.
he'll get right down on the floor and play. i'm one to talk, i do the same in a heartbeat. ;) i've had kids just walk up to me in stores and reach up to me(for me to pick them up)...which sometimes frightens me. i wonder what's up, that they'll walk up to a stranger and do that...know what i mean?

relatives were shocked when their kids took to us, immediately.
talked to us like they'd known us forever, gave us their hands to walk w/them, etc. started to tell us their little stories, and secrets. yet the kids never seemed to warm up to their other (closer) relatives. we just have good kid vibes, i suppose. :shrug: i started babysitting really young, too.

the funding issue (for childcare) bugs me, too.
the other thing is people *choosing* to have children, they don't really want, aren't emotionally ready for, or feeling they have no other choice than to have(when married, etc.). some people immediately *assume* their parents will babysit, or their sisters, other relatives, etc. the baby arrives and they face the reality, that no one is lining up to care for their pride and joy.

people need to think about this, BEFORE they even start to try for kids. at some point, everyone needs a break.
i cringe when i see ads for childcare, on craigslist. :scared:

[jmm]

10. Your post reminds me of an old neighbor.

I think I may have posted this story awhile ago. When I was 7 I lived in Sacramento for about a year. We lived in a two floor apt complex with a nearly identical one next door. Only difference was ours had a pool filled in with sand but the other one had a functioning pool so the kids in both complexes frequently hung out there. There was a man who lived on the second floor and would frequently sit with a chair in front of his door staring at the pool. Now that I think of it I wonder if he had a job because he spent way too much time out there. Most of the neighborhood children and parents loved him but my brother and I had a bad feeling about him so we always avoided him. He was constantly trying to get kids into his apt telling us about the games and snacks he had. The first time he tried that with me I asked if he could bring them to the landing in front of his door. He said no because they'd get wet from the pool. I was confused and said, "but you live on the second floor sir?" His voice got colder and he said no so I declined and said I'd rather play outside. One neighborhood parent even told me straight out I was rude for avoiding him because he helped care for her children. Many people loved him because they were desperate for child care and he was there for them.

A few years after moving I saw him on America's Most Wanted. Soon after we moved he was arrested for molesting a couple of boys (They didn't release the names but I strongly suspect I knew them based on details from the show), got a slap on the wrist, moved to another community where he molested again, and was wanted for that crime.

Throughout the years I've seen too many situations like this. It's not just the children of parents desperate for child care that get victimized but desperation leads to blind trust and causes people to overlook warning signs.

[ThomCat]

11. Damn.

:(

I have never understood why so many people who are CAUGHT molesting children are set free with either a light slap on the wrist or no punishment at all.

People can get long sentences for shoplifting a few dollars worth of food. But molest a kid and maybe you'll get probation that you don't even have to show up for.

I guess it's too much to wish that your neighbors has listened to the bad feelings you and your brother had. But at the very least, someone should have locked that guy up the first time they had him in custody after the first child came forward with a complaint.

That is a heartbreaking story. :(

[bliss_eternal]

12. geezus...!

so thankful you and your brother listened to your inner voices, and avoided that dude. i'm so sorry for the kids who didn't have an inner voice, or who weren't allowed to listen to theirs, because their parents forced them to stay w/him...from their own desperation.

a woman i worked with, was constantly looking for babysitters.
she'd tell me stories of asking (and accepting) the help of random strangers, who'd she met because they provided care at her son's day care. or the entertainer, at another child's birthday party. it was really disconcerting to me.

as i got to know her more, i got the sense that she was *not* ready to procreate, when she had her child.
she did so, because her husband demanded it. :eyes: she spent most of her time, overwhelmed by both of them (her husband and child), seeking ways to have time to herself--free of their demands. she drank a lot of wine. :(

[jmm]

7. When I first saw the subject line I thought this would be about...

men "babysitting" their own children.

If I had children after safety, qualifications, and all the other important things have been considered I wouldn't mind a male watching them. I'm certain if I do ever have children that I have plenty of male friends and family members that will play a huge role in their lives. I don't know how much luck I'd have finding boys looking for work as a babysitter. As evidenced by men who think they can babysit their own children child care, especially for young children, is still considered by many to be woman's work. Society still pushes gender roles when it comes to interacting with children.

Recently I had a discussion with a few people including my brother about being around children. He mentioned that he often feels uncomfortable around his friends with children, not because they don't trust him, but because he's so good with them that parents will get jealous. He has literally seen fathers sulk and look depressed because their child wanted to hold his hand instead of theirs. I'm great with kids too but it's expected for women to know how to deal with children.

Many men want to be better with kids but haven't been socialized to be around them. Then there are the men who are good with kids but people don't think to call them when they need a babysitter and they rarely are encouraged to teach elementary school, become nannies, etc.

[ThomCat]

9. That jealousy from fathers is pretty significant.

If a father has fallen into the strict gender role, only being around the kids as a disciplinarian and leaving all the care and nurturing work to mom, then of course the kids aren't going to be all that close and affectionate with dad.

How many fathers have learned how to get past that gender role and learned how to really spend a lot of time around kids? :(

That has a lot to do with the idea of them "babysitting" their own kids too. If they don't spend time with their own kids, then when they do, it's a bit deal. :(

[bliss_eternal]

14. that's wonderful...

...that you'd at least be open to it (men sitting w/your child). i honestly don't know that i would. i've worked w/guys that were in training, and pursuing an education to work w/kids (i.e. childcare, teaching, counseling, etc.). so i've known and been around men that are capable. in spite of that, i'm still not sure.

if it was one of those guys (who i knew *quite* well)--yes, definitely. otherwise....um.....i don't know.

[ThomCat]

15. Yeah, me too.

Even though I'm a guy, and I'm a guy who has done babysitting... If I had kids I don't know how likely I'd be to trust a teenage boy to babysit.

How sad is that? :(

I'd really have to know him and trust him. I'd be terrified of "what if my judgment is off and he is one of those guys who might molests a kid?"

I've been FRIENDS with guys who I later found out were date-rapists, and I never had a clue. How good a judge of character can I be? I'd probably err on the side of caution... :(

Unless I knew the boy pretty well. I tend to really trust people if I know them well. So maybe I would.

So I guess I don't know either. :shrug:

It becomes a situation of second-guessing. :(

[bliss_eternal]

16. i sincerely appreciate your honesty...

...thank you.

i heard john walsh, address the issue. the man who became the host of america's most wanted, after his son was abducted (walsh became an advocate of sorts). he said something to the effect of,"...why take that chance, leaving your child w/a guy....no matter who he is?" he said more, but it really made me think.

it's not just the news. i can think back to my share of male teachers during school, who gave off an odd vibe. who i learned there were rumours about later (or outright lawsuits, etc.). not to mention all the ones that seemed to go out of their way, to be in positions where they were the only adult w/children. :scared::grr::mad::(

[jmm]

17. Unfortunately I think every high school had teachers like that

There was a gym teacher at my high school who was well known for wanting to play one on one volley ball with certain girls. One of his favorites was a good friend of mine who knew he was odd but didn't know what to do about it. She noted once that it was odd he never tried to play with me since my chest was bigger than hers. "Maybe if I was blonde?" I said to her. She then joked about dying her hair. He had actually come to the school as one of the replacements for some teachers that everybody loved...until they were arrested for running a chop shop out of the trade wing of the school. I swear that place was like Peyton Place for the new generation x(

[bliss_eternal]

18. omg--a chop shop...?!

:wtf:
...out of a high school? what the hell were they thinking? you've got me beat, there. :spray:

we had our share of perverted male teachers.

oh and a couple of born again, black muslim types who thought it was their job to tell any kids with olive, beige or yellow hued skin that,"...somewhere in your lineage, someone was raped by the white man, or allowed themselves to to be seduced by him. either way, you are part white devil--and filled with much of the oppressor's evil."

that was a rather traumatic day, i recall. lol. (sigh)

[ThomCat]

19. Wow. So evil is a racial trait, and inherited perpetually.

:wow:

That sounds like a Great teacher! :sarcasm:

I'm very sorry you, and anyone else at that school, ever had to deal with that. :(