Offensive Words

[Ripley]

I love George Carlin, RIP, he was a good observer.

But he didn't quite live in a woman-perspective world did he?

There are words that offend minorities. Not allowed.

There are words that offend women. Allowed.

I've been asking for the difference and never get it.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Here you go:

"Do not post messages with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[polmaven]

5. George Carlin

was a DU member? Wow! Who knew? :shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. It's calling me out from another thread, they just aren't posting my name

[polmaven]

8. If that's what you think,

then why not see how far that gets you with the mods?

There was a lot of disagreement on that thread. She did not even mention that thread. The OP may have been referring to the thread in another forum regarding the Rude Pundit for all anyone knows.

Paranoid much?

[ismnotwasm]

2. Ever see his Rape Can be Funny skit?

He tries to explain his humor, tells the unfunniest rape jokes, and I "get" humor. I can watch "The Aristocrats" and "get it".


Still there is no comic I miss more, I like this from feministing;
http://www.feministing.com/archives/009453.html

[iverglas]

10. "the unfunniest rape jokes"

I may have the unfunniest of all times.

In the summer of 1974 I was abducted while hitchhiking -- with a man, who unfortunately was slight and long-haired and taken by the driver for a woman, and who even more unfortunately was going only to Toronto while I was going farther. I was confined in a car with no door handles, choked into semi-consciousness and raped, and then told I was going for a walk in the woods at the bottom of an abandoned quarry in farm country. Being quick of wit and quicker of foot than I had ever been, and him apparently losing his bottle, were all that saved me.

Over the next few days I was having trouble sleeping, having little panic attacks ... I still have PTSD, as a result of that and other events before and after.

I called the local women's centre, got a referral to a psychiatrist, who was unavailable but referred me to another, who was unavailable but referred me to her partner. (It was August. Psychiatrists all take vacation in August.) I have always relied on referrals and chains of referrals, both to find services myself and for people to be referred for my services. I felt safe.

I saw him the week after the event. I started talking. I got to the crucial moments of the events I had suffered (more came after, with the police and so on), and oops, my 50 minutes were up.

The diagnosis: I had a rape wish and death wish, and needed to begin psychoanalysis immediately.

The end-of-session chitchat: a joke in which a man with an erection chased a woman around a table, and she said, can't you have an erection and a knife? Or vice versa. I forget. Rape wish and death wish, you see.

I was fortunate that one of the senior people at my summer govt job was Canada's leading expert on sexual offenders at the time. I had a chat with him, on the suggestion of my boss, the research director. He said the psychiatrist was an idiot. I pretty much knew that, being a long-time feminist already and no fool, but the affirmation helped. He still thought I ought to pay him, though. I didn't.

[Ripley]

12. So sorry to hear that iverglas.

I'm glad You got through all the trauma okay. I think You sound pretty grounded and strong nowadays.

[bliss_eternal]

13. iverglas...

...can't even begin to express how sorry I am to read this.

:hug:

[iverglas]

16. thanks for the thoughts, folks

I always keep in mind that it's a rare woman or girl, though, who doesn't have similar experiences at some time in life. Some are worse, and many women are far less well equipped to deal with them than I was and am.

It's been a lifelong object lesson, though, in how if it could happen to me, and my life could be as influenced as it has been by it, it can happen to any of us, and many of us spend our lives with those influences defeating us in so many small and large ways it hurts to think about.

[Ripley]

11. Never saw that, thanks for the link, but it's not available now.

Yeah, he was one of the best. Loved his "Stuff" routine.

I always found it interesting that his 7 words included "cunt" and "tits" but not any pejoratives for other minority status folks. Guess he was a product of his time.

[bliss_eternal]

14. Though I'm unable to find a reference...

...I seem to recall him responding to a question about that once. He seemed to feel that as a "white male" his good friend, Pryor had more to say about the slurs used about "the minority status folks" (to quote you) than he.

[lightningandsnow]

3. Facing off women against "minorities"

is really not effective, seeing as there are a lot of women who are both. It hurts our ability to build coalitions and it alienates people. Sexism is not the "last acceptable preudice", and racism, homophobia, ableism, and the like, are far from dead.

I see the word "retard" quite a bit. That's offensive to a minority, and considered pretty damn acceptable from what I've seen. And, yes, I've heard a lot of racist and homophobic things go unchecked as well. I'm not referring to this board in particular, but society in general.

[ismnotwasm]

4. Well

I still think that misogynist language is inherent in our culture. You can't get away from it. Words that originally had anti-woman intent became enfolded. They've become part of the norm, acceptable in culture. I think it contributes to pathologies like whole sale hatred or rape culture.

I'm old enough to remember and I came from a place when being called a bitch was fighting words. You didn't take that shit. You didn't let people disrespect you. (Sometimes, you landed in jail, but that's another story)

It's one of the reasons I hang on to my right to an expert potty mouth. I have a strong personality and people I know understand they will be challenged on sexism, homophobic hatred and racism in words as strong as I can get away with. (I'm not stupid, I don't get far with that shit with certain hard core bikers I know, although they are fare more receptive than you'd think)


I used to think, like the poster, that racist language was much less acceptable (other than from racists who are fucking everywhere the pukes)

I've kinda of changed my mind about that since on this particular progressive board, (it's everywhere in the progressive community )I've seen racist words and intent treated the same way misogynist words are, as long as it isn't 'blatant'
The New York Times comic was just the last example. Evidently the people who want to move on, or because they don't "get" it, can categorically deny racism. Jesus.

I hear "That's so Gay" as an insult, 'Fag" or "Faggy" "homo" (As homophobic hate, those types of words have also become part of the "norm", but since insulting and hating gays also has much in common with insulting and hating women, I consider them misogynist as well)

Anyway, I've heard that shit from a couple of my adult children, who should know better AT LEAST that to say it in front of me. It's part of their slang. Totally pisses my off and if they're going to say that shit, they get to listen to my opinion on it.

In Seattle Gays are being attacked pathological haters. Gays have a strong community up here, and their community has been invaded, they are being physically attacked and called names simply from walking down they street. (Like "Gaydar" is real and these assholes can tell someone's sexuality by looking at a body)

My point is that language DOES matter. It does affect society in a broad based way, and it DOES affect behavior. I'm not the language police, what I want, is thought and consideration about what words mean, not what one wants them to mean.

Oh, and saying "retard" is just as shitty. Insult an entire community without any fucking consideration or humanity at all.

[polmaven]

7. What she said^^

This past summer, I was being plagued by some out of control neighbors. In one weeks time, I heard the husband calling the wife a c**t at the top of his lungs at 2:00 am,(with their 11 year old daughter and 9 year old son in the apartment) on a Wednesday morning. A few days latter, on Labor Day, actually, dad and the kids were playing in the parking lot when mom came dowstairs, "drunk again". The 11 year old said something like "Mom, please do yourself a favor and be quiet, for once, and stay out of jail". Mom immediately started calling her a b**ch. When their 3rd floor neighbor objected, she was - with her 5 year old daughter standing there - called a f'ing ni**er.

That is when the kids started calling over to my house to please call the police. I had, of course, already done so.

OF COURSE language matters. Language can be hurtful and absolutely does affect societal behavior.

And yes, I find the word "retard", and "That's so Gay" to be highly offensive as well.

[iverglas]

9. two different things

and both are important.

Language can be hurtful and absolutely does affect societal behavior.

The Danish cartoons, for instance, were both.

They were hurtful to the people whose beliefs they mocked.

And they were likely (and likely intended) to exacerbate public hatred of Muslims.

The same is true of misogynist language.

Decent people do not use language that they know is hurtful to other people.

And decent people do not use language that they know is grounded in, and perpetuates, the stereotypes that are used to oppress and victimize vulnerable individuals/groups.

It's just so damned simple.

[bliss_eternal]

15. Totally agree....

...and thank you (for saying so).

That both are hurtful, affect societal behaviour and yeah....it is simple (imo).

On edit--part of the problem seems to be that so many think about these issues in terms of "what affects me personally"--as opposed to the "greater good." It's quite natural (and easy)to argue for one's own issues. It's more challenging to put it all out there, for issues that affect people that don't look exactly like us (in one way or the other).

I'm also of the opinion that comments about "which group's slurs get more recognition or respect" are unnecessary and divisive, particularly in a forum like this. I appreciate those that took the time to say so, and to share about that.

I appreciate your efforts to point this stuff out.
:hug: :hi:

[Name removed]

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