OK...here is a question that is causing me some degree of angst....

[Adsos Letter]

I come from a protestant denomination that fully, actively supports Church/State separation, which I consider to be pretty right-on of them...however, in most of their other beliefs they tilt toward the decidedly conservative fundamentalist realm...there are various streams of liberality within the denomination, but they are primarily conservative on just about everything.

So...I am 2/3 the way through a three semester graduate History series on "American Thought and Culture: 1620-Present."

In the process of doing all the reading (and the reading list is looong) I have spent some significant time with "American Transcendentalism," and especially its roots in Unitarianism.

Here's the deal...I am finding myself very much attracted to many of the teachings of Unitarianism, but am having some major mental struggles over the thought of abandoning my more fundamentalist roots...for a lot of reasons...

Has anyone else here ever had to deal with this kind of...dark night of the soul, for lack of a better term... .

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. Not to such an extent, but my family has been Lutheran on both sides

since the Reformation, one branch in Germany and one in Norway.

When I decided that the Lutheran church was too suburban and too nuclear family-oriented for me, I drifted toward the Episcopal church. But it took me 17 years to "make it legal" and be officially received.

Not a huge leap, I know. But I agonized over it, not because of any major doctrinal differences (there aren't any to speak of) but because I was breaking a centuries-old tradition.

In the end, though, you have to go where you feel most at home.

[Adsos Letter]

2. Thanks for your insight Lydia...

I think I am coming to a point in life where my faith has to be my own...not something bequeathed to me by my parents.

I think it probably is just that simple (even though I am well along in years).

[kwassa]

3. I think it also depends on your personal view of God

I think that the Unitarian church has changed quite a bit since it influence on Transcendentalism in the 1800s.

It would probably be best for you to visit a Unitarian church. I grew up in one, and as an adult found it personally lacking for any sense of spirituality or relationship to God, which is important to me and ultimately defines a church as a church. I see Unitarianism today as primarily a secular humanist meeting group, which is fine, but not what I am currently looking for. I agree in principle of most of their stated beliefs, but find that there is a general anti-theist and anti-Christian bias there.

There are many different liberal and mainline Protestant church denominations that you might like, though within them there can be individual churches that are conservative. I think that you might feel at home in many of them, but the best thing to do is to visit them and see where you feel an attraction.

What denomination are you currently involved in?

[Adsos Letter]

5. Thankyou for your kind reply kwassa...

I appreciate your inside knowledge and experience. I am a theist, and a Christian, so a church espousing those core beliefs would be important to me.

I think what appealed to me in the Unitarianism of ante-bellum America was their emphasis on the positive approach to the meaning of Jesus and man, as opposed to the Calvinism of Congregationalism. I also find the non-trinitarian interpretation as harmonizing more closely to my reading of scripture.

Check your PM...

[onlyadream]

4. I never understood the Trinity..

as much as I've tried. All my Christian friends/family have tried to explain it to me and it never makes sense - they end up shrugging their shoulders and tell me that we can't understand God. I don't really buy it. It isn't mentioned in the bible and I feel there's more in the bible to discount it then promote it. So, I keep my mouth shut (not to offend those who blindly follow what ever they're taught).

[Adsos Letter]

6. I empathize with your take on the trinity, onlyadream...

My reading of scripture has always led me in the direction of a unitarian understanding, as expressed by William Ellery Channing in his ordination address "Unitarian Christianity" (1819).

Bravo to you on your spiritual maturity; not to cause unnessesary offense to others. :thumbsup:

[Kajsa]

7. I have often found myself in the dark night of the soul.

It's an excellent description of the inner turmoil of finding a spiritual home.

I was also raised in the Lutheran church, the Augustana Synod, as my whole
family emigrated from Sweden.

For years my mom strived to find open minded, tolerant pastors/congregations
we could join. We had a great church in Seattle,WA. for years where people
of all faiths could visit.

Our pastor was good friends with local Rabbis,Imans and spiritual leaders from
all faiths.

The concept of "chosen people" was one of many I tried trouble with in traditional
faiths. I never believed for one minute that billions of people around the world who
weren't Christian were condemned. It just didn't make sense to me then and now.

After searching in my area, I found a United Methodist church I attend with my son.
Here, I can receive Communion, even though I was not confirmed in any church.

My stepfather was Unitarian when he met my mom and they were married in the
Unitarian church. However, like me, he didn't find the spirituality he needed there
and both parents came back to the Lutheran church.

Wherever you feel comfortable and your spirit is not in constant conflict with
the teachings is where you will find a spiritual home.

I know I haven't worded this very well,
but I hope it helps.

:)

[Kajsa]

8. Edit to insert 'had'

instead of 'tried' preceding 'trouble with'

in line 9.

:eyes:- caught it too late.

[Adsos Letter]

10. I didn't realize...

...that either Lutherans or Methodists were Perfectionists! :D

[Kajsa]

12. LOL!

I think the ones raised by a bunch of Swedish engineers
are.

:D

[Adsos Letter]

9. Thankyou for sharing your experience Kajsa...

I am just really beginning to take responsibility for examining my beliefs, and what that means in the hear-and-now.

Others have told me that modern Unitarianism may not meet my spiritual needs, something I suspect is probably correct, so I am trying to identify what it is about 19th century Unitarianism that is so attractive in the face of some of what my own denomination teaches.

"Wherever you feel comfortable and your spirit is not in constant conflict with
the teachings is where you will find a spiritual home."
This is certainly the issue at hand...whether the conflict with the message is a function of the teaching, or of some aspect of myself is where I find the most struggle.

Thanks again, and Merry Christmas. :)

[Kajsa]

11. Merry Christmas, Adsosletter.

:) :pals:

[metapunditedgy]

13. I started Lutheran as well (a trend?) and went through several

"adjustments." It's never easy, but it's an ongoing process. For whatever my opinion is worth, my experience is:

1) Barring external influences (like getting kicked out of a Seminary), you're in no hurry. (Don't let anyone push you.)

2) You sound like you take these issues seriously (like me); you'll be thinking about this sort of stuff for many, many years

3) The aspects that are missing from my church always seem very important to me, but if I move somewhere else, I find myself missing other things.

4) Your core principles are most important. For me, I can't stand when churches manipulate or otherwise harm their parishioners... but it still took me 10 years to find a place where I felt more comfortable.

5) Don't take religious advice from people on the internet. :-)

[Adsos Letter]

14. Thanks metapunditedgy...

I recognize that there are no perfect churches, I think I am just starting to make a more serious evaluation of how my understanding of the world, metaphysics, and human purpose equate with what my denomination teaches. :)

I am always happy to hear others weigh in on these matters; half the battle is in realizing I'm not alone, even if I may disagree with the conclusions others have reached...at least they have thought about it.

Thanks for your insights. :hi:

[metapunditedgy]

15. These days, too, I'm less concerned about what a church believes

than I am about how the people interact and how the church functions. But everyone is different.

Anyway, in my case, I just caused myself a lot of trouble by trying to find a church where I fit in with the doctrines/teachings/creeds.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. As has been mentioned here, old Transcendentalists have...

little to do with modern UUs, even though modern UUs love to talk about them.

I grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran-- first communion, confirmation, elementary and high schools... the whole thing. There was a consistancy of thought that I admired, and the secular education was great, but from childhood I never seriously bought into the theology. Didn't take long after HS to drop the church. A couple of months I think it was.

Fooled around with a few things spiritual, but most ended up bullshit. Took me 30 years or so to get around to looking into serious alternatives, serious being defined as something that's been around for a few generations and had time to mature, and I started looking at Quakerism and the creedless ways of worshipping an undefined God in undefined ways. Works for me-- since creeds and doctrines about the Almighty are interpretations of scripture and have no way of being tested or proven, there is little point to having them at all, except to define the particular sect.

After moving to an area without a large Meeting, I started going to the local UU church, and it's great for social sctivism, community and such, but it is a spiritual vacuum. Although I'm a Universalist myself, they just take it a bit far and, in order to not offend anyone, take no stand on God at all, or even on the possibility of God existing. I don't mind atheists, but for them to call the shots in a "church" just seems a bit much.

Curiously, there are also Quaker meetings where any mention of Jesus brings frowns, which is also a bit odd, but this is one result of creedlessness.

[Adsos Letter]

17. Thankyou TreasonousBastard...

Some of what is driving me, at this point, is having done a bunch of reading on American thought and culture that has, as a consequence, made me much more aware of the context in which my denomination formed.

This has had some impact on how I view the denominations creeds; and that, in combination with my own personal life experience, has me engaged in a more pointed evaluation of my own beliefs.

Sorry to be so opaque, but I think that is the best I can articulate it at this point, without turning this into a full-blown dissertation that would probably only be of interest to me. :D