WAPO article on Kerry and Feingold .

[ray of light]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700141.html

One epitomizes the Washington political establishment as the Democratic Party's most recent presidential nominee. The other is the quintessential Democratic outsider, proud to be the only senator to vote against the USA Patriot Act.

Notwithstanding their different histories, Sens. John Kerry and Russ Feingold joined forces last week to push a proposal that would have required troops to leave Iraq by July of next year. And they may soon have something else in common: Both are considering presidential races in 2008.

"It seems to be a marriage of convenience," said Democratic consultant Dan Payne, a former Kerry Senate campaign strategist.

Snip

"Whether it's John Kerry's indecisiveness or Russ Feingold's extremism, Democrats across the board support an approach that results in surrendering to our enemy," Hauser said. "But as 2008 looms, it is interesting to watch these two senators trip over each other as they rush to the far left of their party."


snip

Kerry reiterated his position, dating back to the 2004 presidential election, that he would not have gone to war had he been president _ "wrong war, wrong place and wrong time."

But he added: "Russ made the right vote, I made the wrong vote, it's that simple."

Feingold said the two men started working together on the issue when they both staked a position in meetings with fellow Democrats calling for a timetable to bring the troops back. Neither could persuade the group to go along.

"So we just decided to cooperate in order to strengthen our hand, and not just be operating on our own," Feingold recalled.

"We've worked together on a lot of things," Kerry said. "We share a lot of strong beliefs about how badly the system needs to be reformed, and how screwed up Washington is."

Payne, the former Kerry strategist, said the alliance poses risks for Feingold and Kerry.

"It's a trick for both of them because there's the potential that Kerry can look like he's backtracking, and Feingold has to be careful not to appear to be co-opted or bought off," he said.

[wisteria]

1. Do you know much about Payne? He seems to think he has it

all figured out.
This generally a good piece, except for the obligatory NRC comment, which actually seemed out of place. Is it me? Do these NRC women come across in such a nasty way that they actually make the case for Dem's they are attacking- in this case Kerry and Feingold?

[karynnj]

3. From yesterday's Globe coverage

``The position he took in '04 was really forced, and led to all the verbal gymnastics he went through. I don't know if he can erase that," said Dan Payne , a Democratic consultant who worked on Senate campaigns for Kerry but who was not involved in his presidential run.

His comment should likely be taken with a grain of salt if he worked on a Senate campaign but was not on the Presidential run. Either Payne choose to go with some one else (Dean?? -from the war comment) or Kerry didn't ask him. (If it were the former and he were really good, Kerry could have included him in the general election team.)


editted to add:
The RNC woman is as ususal repeating their talking points. The fact is Kerry appears anything BUT indecisive here and Feingold sounds less extreme - as he is working with others. Their comment that they are tripping on each other to get the left 2008 support, is 180 degrees out of sink. The important thing is that they worked together out of a sincere desire to do what they thought right. What is clear is that both are handling this as statesman. That comment stands out like a sore thumb.

If she wants to comment on political posturing, she should look to Hillary who likely condoned Reid's actions stabbing Kerry in the back.

[wisteria]

4. Thanks, for the information.

I edited my post to comment on the whole piece and my observation on the NRC comments which are always included in these pieces.

[karendc]

7. Dan Payne

was not on the campaign.

Keep in mind that the only person from former campaigns who was directly hired by the campaign before January 31, 2004, was Dick Bell.

Dick was placed in the basement.

It is important to understand how justifiably angry some former JK folks might have felt by the way they have been treated before, during, and since.

I fear we will hear about more negatives.

JK needs to have more lunches with people.

(BTW, Dick is NOT angry; he always has low expectations of political arenas. He still loves JK, in a political way, of course!)

[karynnj]

9. That does put it in a different light

It might have been better if Kerry had used more people who knew him. It seems a lot of the people he added on were ultimately not very loyal.

[blm]

2. Sounds like Dan Payne is trying to fuck over both Kerry and Feingold with

his characterizations of them.

[karynnj]

5. I agree with your assessment

Kerry is not backtracking - the question would be backtracking on what? The only possibility is he did change on a withdrawal date, but in realiy Feingold shifted a bit too. His last August position was a "flexible target date if benchmarks were met" withdrawal date. Both Kerry and Feingold changed when the country went into a civil war this year. (I think Feingold admitted after Kerry's October plan that they were close and on the forefront.)

Feingold being co-pted? The article is written as Kerry going to Feingold's position. This is because they are looking at the proposal in a one dimensional way - withdrawal. There's a lot of the diplomatic and (how to deal with terrorism stuff) that Kerry contributed.

[wisteria]

6. That brings me to a point I have wanted to make about the

diplomatic portions of this plan. This portion of the plan is getting absolutely no media play. The media present this plan as nothing more than get out by mid 07. I even heard a CNN commentator-John Roberts- claim that both Dem plans do not have any references or plans for helping out the Iraqi's. This is, IMO being done on purpose. It is to bad that there is no structure in place for Kerry to release comments to these programs refuting the claims. Maybe they would be forced to correct their sloppy and unbalanced reporting.

[karynnj]

8. I guess that leaves us as LTTE writers

though there is selection there too. That just leaves the blogs. It also means we need to be less shy speaking to friends and family. I need to go back through our threads, Thomas, Kerry's statements etc to have material to show if questioned at a large family reunion - where the talk in some subgroups always turns to politics. It will be interesting to see how the more active liberal family members are thinking. (Being one of 9 spread around the country it will be interesting to catch the mood.)

[ProSense]

10. Exactly! n/t

[ProSense]

15. AP hit piece!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1516634&mesg_id=1516634

[ray of light]

16. Thank you for posting.

In fact, I almost posted 'exactly' the same wording in here, but I decided to see if others read it as a hit piece too.

[Mass]

11. Another AP BS. if all they have is Payne to support their argument,

they are with a very weak argument.

In addition, their characterisation of Kerry and Feingold as establishment and outsider is stupid.

[emulatorloo]

12. "But it would make such a great movie!"

<quote>

In addition, their characterisation of Kerry and Feingold as establishment and outsider is stupid.

<quote>

It is so annoying how these reporters fall back on hackneyed dramatic cliches. Hoping to cast Danny Glover and Mel Gibson, I guess.

[karynnj]

14. It is actually sad

Kerry SHOULD be accorded some status by the party establishment as the standard bearer - in fact many seemed to barely support him while he won. What's funny is that this comes after over a year of the WP complaining that the party leaders are annoyed that Kerry has kept a higher profile than they would have liked.

[ginnyinWI]

13. Always remember:

The pundit class doesn't have a clue about what real Americans think. ;)

One reason both Kerry and Feingold put forth that amendment is because they are in touch. Kerry through the presidential campaign, and Feingold because he does 72 town hall meetings a year.

[jillan]

17. Maybe we could re-frame "indecisive" with

open-minded?

Kerrycrats start it here, and it can get over to other sites.
I'm sick of this label that Kerry has stuck on him. Especially since it
is a lie.

Idears anyone?

[ray of light]

18. what about "listens to facts then decides" or...

doesn't jump to false conclusions then spring into action based on those false conclusions.


Or need something simpler?

Fair

Diplomatic

Get's the facts because the buck stops here...

[karynnj]

19. Cautious, deliberate, careful, thoughtful, prudent

thorough, fastidious, meticulous,precise, multilayered, complex, sophisticated

[ray of light]

20. perfect!!!

[globalvillage]

21. I like 'reasoned'

It sounds so...reasonable. Or reasonable. That works. Or sensible.
Or sane, although that could be mis-heard.

[karynnj]

22. I liked reasoned

It's mature and it's intelligent and his comments are always well-reasoned.

[ray of light]

23. omg...you know you're tired when you thought it said raisoned.

[globalvillage]

24. Hehe. Oops.

I used to think raison d'etre was a desert, so I can't even giggle at you for that one.

:-)