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Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Democrats » John Kerry Group Donate to DU
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:31 PM
Original message
any thoughts on this article?
not about Kerry, but DU seems to have taken the "Crisis Papers" under their wing...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x200130#200171

I think it's mostly a load of dreck, myself, but I don't have the time today to post on this.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. OK, I put somebody on ignore for obvious reasons
How can some people be so insensitive and post images terrible images as if it was ordinary stuff?
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Horseshit
The "Crisis Papers" has been on my shit list after they continued to lie about Kerry's Iraq position, even after his speech at Georgetown last October that made his position - including withdrawal - blindingly clear.

What a load of tripe. Anyone who ignores/bitches about Kerry despite all the things he's done, including the Alito filibuster, yet masturbates eagerly to Russ Feingold and his (botched) censure attempt, has zero credibility to me. Now this idiot is an admin, huh? God help us.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't want to
kick it by commenting, but it seems to have attracted a bunch of dead-enders.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
4.  Pardon my ignorance but what are the "Crisis Papers"
Thanks
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. on DU's homepage
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks
I read it, it seems to me to be political hyperbole without any substance what so ever. I think this is a problem with the left and perhaps politics in general that people use hyperbole, name calling, to get their point across, now if they used reason and thigns like that they wouldn't seem so nuts.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. A lot of platitude. No original thoughts at all.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't believe everything posted at DU. Some people just have
their own personal agenda. What I find surprising is this person is brand new and was able to become an administer. Go figure.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Whoa I saw that too
You sign up to become a mod not an admin though, that is weird. Agree about personal agendas though 100%.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Here is the explanation
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 04:50 PM by ProSense
posted in the thread:

Ernest Partridge and Bernard Weiner aren't Admins at DU, but the "CrisisPapers" posts currently have an Admin icon next to them because I'm publishing their articles here (in conjunction with the Crisis Papers) - the account is set to Admin status because we've moved the Crisis Papers articles into Journal format and I needed to perform some testing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. What garbage
I guess I'm one of the useless idiots beacause I refuse to believe the most extreme accusations without any real proof - the problem is that the very real problems will not get solved if people are discouraged from even working on them. Their conspiracy theories are really nonsense, that unfortunely makes it harder to expose the real bad things that really happened.

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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'm a useless idiot too.
And I think articles like this only add to the general feelings of malaise, hopelessness, and cynicism. Highly counter-productive.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Nonsensical, hogwash tripe, and not only that,
Edited on Tue Mar-28-06 04:47 PM by ProSense
but also horse shit, BS leftist crap (I read enough of it to know).

Unfortunately, the Democrats never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And opportunities aplenty are coming their way which, for the most part, they simply ignore. For example, when one of their number, Senator Russ Feingold, speaks up with a loud and eloquent voice, he is told to shut up. Demanding censure of the outlaw President, he is told by his own party, is "not nice."


Censure an outlaw President? it's a resolution asking for a potential war criminal (even though the most we can expect is impeachment) to say he was wrong, apologize and move on. Stop trying to spin it as some tough principled measure. It's a symbolic gesture. This is another attempt to spin a hero by berating Democrats.

Also, abandoning Bush? Welcome to fu_king reality. What took them so long? The Democrats were never WITH Bush. Even some whose votes sided with Bush's interests (bankruptcy bill, Roberts confirmation, ) were never WITH bush.


Here's some stuff still outstanding to fight for (sign the DSM letter):

11/01/2005

Statement by John Kerry on Closed-Door Senate Session and Senate Failures to Investigate Pre-War Intelligence

“For a year and a half, the Republican leadership in Congress has refused again and again to complete Phase II of their investigation into pre-war intelligence failures. All the requests I and other Senators have made of the Intelligence Committee for more information have been pushed aside. The Republican leadership has been complicit in a political cover-up of the decisions that led to war. Nothing could be more serious or more deserving of full public disclosure. The families of our troops deserve the truth, as does every American. Now that one of the chief architects of the war in Iraq has been indicted for related crimes, it is more important than ever to know how intelligence was presented to the Congress.

“The country and the Congress were misled into war. It is deeply troubling that the Republicans in Washington are so afraid to share the truth with the American people. Clearly it will require an independent, outside investigation to get to the bottom of this.”


Click here for Kerry's June 2005 letter to the Intelligence Committee on Phase II of the investigation into pre-war intelligence.


http://www.kerry.senate.gov/v3/headlines/pdf/SSCI_Letter_Downing_Street.pdf">Click here for Chairman Roberts' response.



Kerry on campaign finance reform (fight for Kerry's version of clean money reform, or at least fight for McCain-Feingold, which McCain is violating at every turn and trying to destroy):

I realize that a lot of my colleagues aren’t ready to embrace public funding as a way to finance our campaigns. But it is, in my opinion, the best constitutional means to the important end of limiting campaign spending and the contributions that go with it. Ultimately, I would support a system that provides full public funding for political candidates. I will continue to support Clean Money as the ultimate way to truly and completely purge our system of the negative influence of corporate money. I would also support a partial public funding system as a way to wean candidates from their reliance on hard money and get them used to campaigning under generous spending limits. I offered an amendment to McCain/Feingold that would have provided sweeping reform in the form of a partial public funding system, but I recognize that we are a long way away from enacting such a program. Nevertheless I will continue to support and work for that type of reform as a way to end the cycle of unlimited money being raised and spent on our elections.

Mr. President, this bill is a way to break free from the status quo. However, as with any reform measure, there are always going to be possibilities for abuse. The fact that some people will try to skirt the law is not a reason for us to fail to take this incremental movement towards repairing the system. But, it does mean we must ensure that this the first, rather than the last, step for fundamental reform. I have supported campaign finance reform for eighteen years and I believe that even legislation that takes only a small step forward is necessary to begin to restore the dwindling faith the average American has in our political system. We can’t go on leaving our citizens with the impression that the only kind of influence left in American politics is the kind you wield with a checkbook. I believe this bill reduces the power of the checkbook and I will therefore support it.




Get rid of this kook:




Kerry Renews Call for Rumsfeld to Resign
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: August 25, 2004

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry on Wednesday renewed his call for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign and urged President Bush to appoint an independent investigation to provide reforms after a report faulted all levels of the military for abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

"It's not just the little person at the bottom who ought to pay the price of responsibility," Kerry said at a Philadelphia union hall. "The buck doesn't stop at the Pentagon."

A report released Tuesday by an independent panel led by former Defense Secretary James R. Schlesinger concluded that senior U.S. military leaders in Iraq and the Pentagon can be faulted for inattention to prisoner abuses, but it did not recommend that Rumsfeld stop down.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/25wire-kerry.html?ex=1251172800&en=a666cbaba8cbe651&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland




Other stuff: Kerry also voted against Gale Norton's confirmation and with good reason.

From the Office of Senator Kerry

DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR LAUNCHES INVESTIGATION INTO BUSH ADMINISTRATION EFFORTS TO EXERT POLITICAL INFLUENCE ON KLAMATH BASIN DECISION

Decision comes in response to request by Senator John Kerry

Friday, September 5, 2003

WASHINGTON, DC – In response to a request by Senator John Kerry that it investigate whether the Bush Administration exerted political influence over its management of the Klamath River Basin, the Inspector General of the Department of Interior has announced that it has launched an investigation into the matter.

“The Bush Administration has acted as if federal agencies like the Interior Department are a division of the Republican National Committee and at their disposal to give out political favors. The Klamath decision was but one more example of politics dictating policy in the Bush Administration,” said Kerry. “The Klamath decision should have been based on law and science and not a political operative’s agenda, polls, and campaign priorities.”

A July 30, 2003, Wall Street Journal article detailed the involvement of White House political strategist Karl Rove in the dispute over water management issues in the Klamath River Basin, which stretches from Southern Oregon to the Northern coast of California. Rove apparently began his efforts with a presentation to Interior Department officials connecting regulatory actions – including the Klamath issue – to Republican prospects in the coming elections. Based on these reports, it appears that Rove sought to influence Department of Interior decision-making processes by injecting political considerations into what should have been questions of science and law.

In a letter to Kerry, the Office of Inspector General stated that it will investigate:

1. What would be the normal regulatory process in a matter such as this, assuming that this was an Administrative Procedures Act-governed regulatory matter.

2. What actually did happen in the administrative process in the Klamath Basin matter.

3. How the Klamath Basin matter deviated from the norm (if at all) with special attention being paid to:

a. The science b. Any suppressed information c. Any evidence of political interference

“The agreement by the Interior Department’s Inspector General to investigate this matter to see if political pressure from the White House intimidated staff and influenced policy is a positive development and the appropriate first step. I anxiously await their decision,” Kerry concluded.

-- 30 --




Bush crony Gail Norton resigned, possibly related to Abramoff.


There are numerous examples of the same from Kerry (Alito filibuster, etc.), and a lot of other Democrats (many in the house like Louis Slaughter) have done excellent work.


Like I said, nonsensical BS.


edited typo
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You should post all or some of that in that thread.
Right now it's full of a bunch of me-too circle-jerkers.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Nevermind.
It hasn't been kicked in forever. No need.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I just did, and I feel better.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. LOL
Served them right. I noticed that you sanitized the title of your post a wee bit :P
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. It's called
reserved belligerence. :P
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. I saw this - it's really disappointing.
It was apparently posted by one of the admins here.

I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this but I will anyway - I felt betrayed when I saw that.

I haven't had time to read the article thoroughly though, I just skimmed it. Maybe it isn't quite as bad as it sounds. But why is one of the admins posting stuff bashing the Democratic Party? I don't get it.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It wasn't an admin per se
The Crisis Papers are written by two dudes and used to be featured on the DU main page - apparently, however, the admins like their rantings so much they are trying to make the Crisis Papers a journal, and have thus given them admin status for the time being. I don't really understand that, or why the "Crisis Papers" couldn't get a regular DU account like the rest of us schmucks, but that appears to be the situation.

I don't like it one bit either. Whether that's what they intended or not, this gives the overwhelming impression that the DU admins endorse these sentiments, which I, like you, find rather betraying.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. yeah, I felt kind of betrayed too...
One of those, "why am I donating money to this website if their gonna use it to push this lefty freeper bullshit?" moments...

Actually, I'd kind of noticed the "Crisis Paper" articles a few weeks ago and wondered then why DU was putting them up on the home page -

Seems like they belong more in "Counterpunch" than DU....
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Du serves a lot of constituencies
I guess the lefty freepers get stuff too. I find Skinner and EarlG and the other Admins to be very very good and I genuinely look forward to their posts. (See Skinner's today about the immigration wars at DU. He was very reasonable.)
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I did like that post by Skinner.
I reco'd it.

The one we are discussing here upset me though.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-28-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. They are 'same old, same old'
but I just ignored them. The 'bash Dems' thing is so overdone. (We're tired of it now, can you imagine how tired of it we'll be in Nov of '07 when the Presidential primary wars are in full force. Everyone who isn't a particular posters preferred candidate will be somehow wrong and dead-certain to bring down the whole Dem Party. That is going to be nasty.)
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