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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:48 AM
Original message
Cegelis - Duckworth crazy making
Something pretty weird is going on. We need to find out exactly who is backing Christine Cegelis, and then make the connection to who was behind Hackworth. These people are liars.

Cindy Sheehan has a post up about Christine, saying that she is supposedly the anti-war candidate. Well read the Iraq plan, it's John Kerry's plan. WTF??? Then she says Duckworth wants to stay in Iraq, which isn't true, she supports a withdrawal that considers Iraq security in the process. Not much difference.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/3/143638/8463

Then there's the supposedly big issue about Duckworth not living in the district. Well she lives 3 miles outside of a boundary, in the house where she grew up. Illinois law is that you have to live in the state, so this is a nothing issue. Who is trying to turn this into some carpetbagging bullshit?

They've also distorted her view on abortion, saying that she's a states' rights person. That is so far from true. She compared it to Terri Schiavo, and said they're all personal privacy issues and the federal government has no business in any of it. They're just bold-faced lying.

Back to JK and Iraq. What is up with Cindy Sheehan supporting a candidate with Kerry's Iraq plan?? And how did it come to be that Murtha came out with a plan that captured the left, just weeks after Kerry announced his plan to actually demand Bush begin withdrawing troops. And how did Murtha's plan pretty much get dropped, and now we've got Sheehan saying this Cegelis plan is a plan to end the war.

Does this all seem a bit weird to anybody else?? I think people are misleading Cindy Sheehan too, she's busy and probably doesn't have time to keep up with every utterance of every candidate.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. One awkward thing is that it likely means that Cegelis is a Kerry
supporter to some degree. I think this may be the case of having 2 good candidates. It must be that Durbin (who should know) didn't think Cegelis could win. That may be fair - in 2004, she had Kerry and Obama on the ticket with her - both likely getting out the Democratic vote. So, in ILLINOIS, 2004 could have been an outstanding year to run as a Democrat. (Is that likely, WEL?)
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. well it might have been a bad year-- I don't know
People in Illinois know they are in a dark blue state and many may NOT have bothered to vote. That's why the national popular vote people are making the case for doing away with the electoral college.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I'm talking about the particular smears
More than which candidate would be better. There's also the claim that Cegelis "scared" Henry Hyde into retiring. Oh right, puhleeze.

You know, I think I'll email the Cegelis team and ask them about it point blank. I like them both too, I'm just trying to figure out who it is that can't seem to support a candidate unless they're smearing the opponent. And where the hell are they when the opponents are Republicans.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. But why would she claim Kerry's plan as her own?
Last time I looked that's plagiarism.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. No, just politics
It would only be plagiarism if she actually wrote it out and submitted it as a completely new plan of her own. She is just stating her views on what we should do in Iraq, which whether she knows it or not, is pretty much the same as Kerry's view. I don't have a problem with Cegelis, she would be a great candidate. I have a problem with Democrats running smear campaigns against other Democrats.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Do you mean Hackett?
Not Hackworth?

Are you suggesting purposeful seeding of divisiveness?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. lol
Do you know how many times I had to read that to see what I'd done?? :silly:

I don't know what is going on, but it just seems like an awful lot of intentional distortions coming from somewhere.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Cegelis partners are mad because somebody else is running
who has a chance. In their typical way, they are distorting the issue. (Nota: I like Cegelis and would probably support her, but I think the anti-Duckworth attacks are over the board).

What is notable is that there are apparently no politicians from Illinois who endorsed her at the point (not even Durbin?). I think one of the issue is her poor showing in 04 compared to Obama and Kerry in the district she hopes to win. (Cegelis 44 % - Kerry 47 % - Obama 50 + %).

Sheehan is simply supporting Cegelis because she likes that Cegelis is saying "out of Iraq" as soon as possible (whatever this implies). I doubt she has had time to read any detailed positions on the subject.

However, something is fishy with the idea that Duckworth grew up in IL. She was born and raised in Thailand (see her site-her father was working for the UN - Her mother is Thai) and then in Hawai (like Obama - interesting connection). However, it is my understanding she was living in IL-06 before she was sent to Iraq.

http://www.duckworthforcongress.com/cms/index.php?optio...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think the "grew up in IL", may be that she is living "in her family's
house" per one article. So, at some point in her life, the family moved to Illinois. I don't think this is as much an issue in Chicagoland as in Massachusetts.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yes that's the reference I saw
Her site says she was commissioned to the National Guard to Illinois in 1992, so that's still a long time in the district.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I won't support liars
I don't care who they are. They did it to Kerry during the primaries. I was inclined to believe something had happened in Ohio with Hackett, but now I start seeing what is happening to Duckworth so I don't think so. Brown may well have not done a thing to Hackett and it was the same "exuberant" types that will say anything to try to win. I was just wondering if anybody knew if particular groups were behind both Cegelis and Hackett, because they need to be watched.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
24. sandnsea, I don't know if other groups are smearing her
using Cegalis's name, but I can tell you that the group of people in different grassroots organizations have worked hard to build up a coalition since her loss in 04 and she was making headway.

Personally, I think it's really unfair to call people "liars" when you don't know for sure that it's people in Cegalis's organization or people who are "republicans" which that IS a strongly Repubican area, who may be creating rumors to hurt her. They play with dirty tricks and it's not like anyone here can point specifically to Cegalis herself or anyone specifically on her committee.

And to say, "Cegelis has to be watched" really isn't fair because the facts just aren't there to support that. I have friends and relatives in that area who have busted their butt out there for many years, then the DCCC decides, "We'll install an Iraq war vet in that district...." well, you can bet those people are annoyed! They feel disrespected by the party! They talk about using grassroots and then they do something that the grassroots people object to. Duckworth could have run the next district over where there was no viable dem candidate. And they're the ones intimately involved in the situation...not like anyone in other states.

Even with the Hackett and Brown thing, all we have are innuendo and rumors. We have no idea if the actual people involved were with Brown or with Hackett or if they were just people calling in and saying, "I'm with..."

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. I've seen the posts
The post that had Cindy's Kos piece was posted by Kevin Spidel, who also posts on Christine's blog. I PM'd and gave him an opportunity to clarify the remarks coming out of the Cegelis campaign, I also emailed the campaign. No denials so far. Tammy Duckworth is being intentionally smeared and it's not just me that sees it. Here's a party leader in the district.

http://www.rklau.com/tins/archives/2005/12/09/tammy_duc...
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nolies32fouettes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. self deleted
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 07:08 AM by nolies32fouettes
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. After reading their answers to question on Iraq at DU -P,
they seem too vague to really say whose plan they back. After the last few weeks, all of these plans may be impractical. Cegelis, sounded more like Feingold - same date and vague un-defined benchmarks should be met. (But Kerry's time line was similar (though he gave a time interval rather than a date) and had some very specific steps that needed to be taken.)

I don't think Duckworth is far from Kerry's either.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. These people are gaming the issue
This is bullshit sour grapes. It's a friggin endorsement. It's friggin free country. Just because these Senators are elected they lose their right to endorse anyone they choose to?

Weeks ago Kerry was irrelevant to these same pot stirrers. Weeks ago he was portrayed as being the outcast among the Democrats by some of these same people.

All of this is bullshit, and these people are playing emotional games, stirring up angry sentiments. People are all up in arms because some Democratic Senators endorsed a Democratic candidate. Friggin ridiculous!

Maybe some of these other Democrats considering a run in 2008 should start endorsing candidates and giving them financial support.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I would like to submit H. Clinton's name as a first suggestion. She
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 11:37 AM by wisteria
can certainly well afford it.Oh, and how about Warner? Endorsing a vet could win him some votes from the security and defense crowd. Then there is Edwards, he had an apology for his IWR vote and he is possibly considering running again. No endorsements from him have been forthcoming.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Edwards is not likely to endorse candidates in blue states
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 06:04 AM by benny05
or at least right now.

JRE's "Raising the States" is geared towards Dems running in red States that really need the help--and towards efforts in getting the minimium wage raised initiatives on state ballots since our stubborn Congress won't do it; Teddy was the only one who fought hard for raising the minimum wage.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. you have to wonder how far Karl Rove and the right will go
but, I see this more as the usual sour grapes lefty crowd - whose voice gets ampified by the blogosphere.

At root they just need something to bitch about, or they're not happy...
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. i view it this way also
the Sherrod Brown thing really showed it. Brown who is as liberal as they come started getting attacks. you would think those who are truly liberal and care about the issues would know his record and get behind it. instead we got a bunch of ignorant posts about Brown being connected to the dlc.

but i also see the Republicans being behind some of this in that they often fund it or support it some way. and it makes sense as it's to their benefit.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Can Kerry get them for palgarism?
Seems that's what is going on. And yes Kerry had his plan out way before Murtha. I remember Dean on Matthews' show and he was going to talk about Kerry's plan but Matthews cut him off. And of course the hypocriacy is amazing. They like it when their favorite canidates get the "belt way" support but nobody else is allowed to. :eyes: If you need help investigating let me know and I'll try to help since I'm on spring break this week. Only thing I have to do is a report and study on my test for History class.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Suggest You Talk with William Rivers Pitt about this One
He and his buds are trying to help Cegelis win. Check out the Illinois forum.

I don't live in her (Cegelis or Duckworth's) district, so I don't have to deal with the ugliness of that race. I didn't contribute when Kerry asked because of that reason. But I wish Kerry would raise some bucks for a guy in my district who has a really good chance of beating the rethug incumbent. The contender's name is David Gill (http://www.gill2006.com ).





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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Oooooo you live in Illinois 15??
Me too!

Go to school in Urbana, hometown is Sullivan.

Are you in the Champaign-Urbana area?
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yep
I've seen you on the Illinois forum, haven't I? I'm on the roll call list.

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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I haven't been in there in a while
It's pretty Chicago-centric so I don't check it out too often.

Don't think I've met any other folks from CU around here! :bounce:
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. kevsand is a Champaign county resident
and so is her spouse.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. psst...
There are some, *ahem*, "questionable assertions" being made over there by folks angry at JK findraising for Duckworth. You may want to join the discussion.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. That's what I was alluding to
having to do with William Rivers Pitt.

I have no desire to get into their discussions since neither candidate is my district.

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I thought maybe that's what you meant
I also would not get involved except for when the "questionable assertions" being made are about Kerry or other national dems. Then I don't give a fig whose district it is.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. yikes
I shouldn't have gone over there. :scared:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. It's great that people
are throwing their support behind the candidate of their choosing. That's what it's all about, and no one should be criticized for doing so.

I don't see a problem with national and state Democrats supporting a candidate for office in accordance with the law, and as the OP points out state-wide support is allowed. The Republicans tried to make that an issue in New Jersey when they lost local races to Democrats and there was nothing illegal done. The Republicans have a history of doing this on a much larger scale and with a well-oiled machine (that once included Abramoff).
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