Great Kerry forum conversationalists: How did you master your craft?

[BlueIris]

(Repost from the Lounge, where it was mocked. ...I know. I was trying to be open-minded.)

Throughout the last year, I have been working to build and refine my conversational skills. It seems as if I used to have them, sort of, but they've been paired down by, well, having to deal with assholes as a part of my daily life for a long, long time. This self-improvement activity is designed to help me be a better, more successful individual, as well as a better activist (to paraphrase a great American, having the skill and grace to hold meaninful conversations is an essential part of being an effective contributor to the Democratic Party). As part of my quest, I have been attempting to align myself with excellent conversationalists, and read up on the advice given to them by experts. Some books I've explored include Deborah Fine's "The Fine Art of Small Talk," Susan RoAnne's "How to Work a Room," and James A. Morris' "The Art of Conversation." If any DUers wanted to suggest additional books, web pages or other resources, I would love that, although this thread is open to comments from anyone who considers him or herself a great conversationalist and wants to share histories, experiences, and tips.

[TayTay]

1. Ahm, which of us are the good conversationalists?

Ahm, I am reluctant to answer. (Hubris.) Plus, I swear too much.

Ahm, I like to ask other people about themselves. Then listen for a response. That usually helps a lot.

[Island Blue]

2. Well you're funny as hell that's for sure Tay Tay!

As far as what makes a great conversationalist I think learning how to listen is very important. (Of course this is coming from someone who IS NOT a great conversationalist so what do I know?)

[BlueIris]

3. Yeah, everyone always says, "being a good listener" is the best thing.

I think I am a good listener. Mostly.

[whometense]

5. Great question.

The greatest conversations I've ever been privy to are the ones I've read in Jane Austen novels. Seriously. Pre-tv, radio, etc, people really knew how to conduct amusing conversations. Aside from playing cards and reading, it was all they had to pass the time in the evenings. It's impressive to see how artful they could be. The range and depth of topics they might cover in an evening (granted, Austen wrote mainly about very educated people) is amazing.

There are really few people who know how to listen. To bring the topic back to this forum, I'll mention that JK is one who does. Most people have things they want to say, and will respond not to what has been said to them, but instead to whatever opening they've been given. I noticed that JK really listens, and follows up what is said to him with more questions - in other words, not trying to lead the conversation, but listening to what is said to him and responding.

I think the key to conversation is really caring about what the other person is saying. Faked interest is pretty obvious.

[BlueIris]

6. About the topic: It's great if it's forum-specific, but

insights into how to hold good conversations generally (from Kerry supporters' perspective) are what I was looking for. And just FYI to future contributors--I'm not going to be communicating with Republicans much in the future. One of the great things about being me. In my opinion, our biggest challenge in the future is going to be convincing the Warner/Clinton/Feingold impaired on the left to vote for JK. "How to hold a meaningful conversation with a member of the opposition party" is a whole different thread, in my opinion. Just to let everyone know.

That's an excellent insight about Austen novels, though. Too bad she's not my favorite (Regency period lit wasn't for me). I guess I could stomach her though, as part of the quest.

[whometense]

8. Not to hijack the thread,

but there was a highly perceptive (negative) review of the new Pride and Prejudice movie on Salon yesterday Pride and pathetic: It's heartwarming! It's romantic! Poor Jane Austen must be rolling in her grave over the new film of her great novel that gives a great look into the real Jane Austen - a woman I would give a lot to have been able to have dinner with.

[globalvillage]

9. Did you see the movie?

I thought it was lovely.
I didn't read the full review because I couldn't get past the pretention of the first two paragraphs. The film was for a mainstream audience, not literary scholars, and I thought it was pretty well done.
The great thing about films like this is that they expose the masses to literature. Most people who saw that movie have never read Jane Austen. But they may after watching the film.
JMHO. I liked Harry Potter, too, if that tells you anything.

[whometense]

10. hahahaha

No, I didn't see it. I'm not a "film" snob, but I am a Jane Austen snob. I loved the movie they made of Persuasion, but the kiss at the end right out in the public streets of Bath offended me. I told you I was a snob. I LOVE the A&E Colin Firth/Jennifer Ehle version of Pride and Prejudice, so I'm gonna stick with that one.

That's what happens when you've read her novels wayyyyyy too many times. :D

[globalvillage]

11. I'll look for your review when in comes out on DVD.

You'll have to watch it and tell me if I'm an idiot.

And no, you can not give me your opinion now. You have to watch the movie first.

;-)

[rosesaylavee]

15. And who could possibly be better than Colin Firth.

Puleeeeease. Some actors are just born to play one role. And that was his. He is very good in many others but that one - he nailed it.

:)

[whometense]

19. Have to agree with you there.

I loved him in Bridget Jones's Diary too, but then he was playing a present day Darcy - same role, less dashing wardrobe!!

[cmnh]

17. I get it. You should talk about politics and literature.

Sort of like Sensenbrenner and Sensibility?

[TayTay]

18. I like that one!

That was good!

[whometense]

20. Ouch.

:D Okay, that 's a good one.

[rockymountaindem]

4. Not to brag

But I had a really good conversation the other day with a doctor in his office about politics. I'd always thought he was a Republican...

At one point he said, dissapointedly, "You're a Democrat, aren't you? It's ok, you don't have to apologize". I said, "I wasn't going to". By the end I got him to agree with me on some things, I had to defend Howard Dean, who isn't my favorite but you know, party loyalty and all (Dean's ok, but not ideal) and I think he came away with some respect for me and my positions. Afterwards, he showed me his "Eisenhower Comission" Republican lifetime membership plaque, and we had a good laugh. Disagreement doesn't mean you can't get along.

[beachmom]

7. Well, Eisenhower was one of those underestimated presidents

No, he wasn't revolutionary, but he did manage to keep us out of war for a while. And he did get that whole "military industrial complex" thing. And not to mention his heroics, leading the troops on D-Day. Being a Republican back then was alright. In fact, being a Republican was no problem to me at all until the '90s, when the haters and religious right started taking it over. If they manage to purge that element and get back to REAL traditional conservatism, I'll give them another listen. After all, I am an Independent at heart. It's just that in this day and age, it isn't enough to be anti-Republican. You have to stand for something, or you'll go for anything, and that's why I am a proud Democrat.

Back to the conversation thing, what about the old classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. I have to admit I read his "How to Stop Worrying" book more often (I've probably read or listened to tapes of it 5 or 6 times during times of crisis in my life), but there are nuggets of age old wisdom in the "Friends" book.

Anyway, I think that is a lofty goal, BlueIris, and you'll have to check in with us on how you are progressing.

[BlueIris]

12. I LOVE Carnegie!

That was one I read that I didn't mention 'cause I thought it was possible that people here would think it was passe. Carnegie knew how to converse, this is true.

[TayTay]

13. A lot of this is the art of mastering 'small talk.'

That can go several ways. There are a certain amount of shallow and very boring people in the world who can only converse in terms of what they have heard on TV. Small talk with these people gets to the, 'so, how's the family, what's up with your job, what you been up to stage,' and then dies. Then you have to start talking about NAtalie Holoway and what's on TV. This becomes more effort that it's worth because I don't watch much TV and have no idea what's up with that poor girl and her suffering family and have no desire to go look it up. Those conversations suck.

Generally speaking, mention a range of subjects. See which one sticks with the person you are talking with. Most people are happy to talk about themselves, their families and such. A good conversation draws people out, gets them to put some effort into recapping a story or such. Keep asking for details. This makes the effort not at all shallow and interesting. Ask about travel, music, movies and such and see what little tidbits fall off the table. Often times, the thing you start talking about is not the thing you really end up talking about. And don't force a conversation. Some of them do die of natural causes. Just see what develops and go from there.

[MonteLukast]

14. Exactly.

A good conversation draws people out, gets them to put some effort into recapping a story or such. Keep asking for details. This makes the effort not at all shallow and interesting. Ask about travel, music, movies and such and see what little tidbits fall off the table. Often times, the thing you start talking about is not the thing you really end up talking about.

One of my big pitfalls when I was younger was thinking that small talk had to fit some predescribed "nonoffensive" mold... think of the advice not to talk about politics, religion or sex we've all no doubt heard at some point in our lives.

I've disobeyed that guideline repeatedly. I *have*, in fact, talked to total strangers about those three very things, and made enough successes to be proud of my accomplishment, too. I even once had a lengthy conversation with a completely anti-choice, fundamentalist woman, and we both left feeling quite warm and fuzzy.

I'm not entirely sure how well-equipped I am to give out advice on this subject, but I believe that the trick is in learning how to handle these subjects right. Make it not so much "nonoffensive", but in comfortable and tailored to that specific person; so as to make them feel more "special", if you will.
And ALWAYS "well-listened". Remember, the good listener pays keen attention to the spaces between the lines, and the emotions being expressed as well. (I'd say a good "practice partner" would be the woman who says she's married to the best man in the world, but with a tight face and a deadpan or artifically-saccharine voice.)

I have a hard time conversing with my father, especially on political matters. Several times he's gotten on my case for not wanting to listen to points of view that differ from mine.
Excuse me? I can have an entire conversation with a woman who is my polar opposite in every way, and we can both leave all-a-smiles. I can do this on a regular basis with strangers almost every freaking day. Hearing that I'm incapable of talking civilly with a person who disagress with me is rich. Really rich.
(Speaking of Crybaby Ted Stevens, Dad actually told me that if I wanted to present myself better, I'd better not stay involved with the Democratic Party because they are all a bunch of immature children who don't know how to control their emotions. :banghead: Yes, Dad's a Republican, and a moderate one; but the things he says about the characters of my Democratic heroes make me want to :puke: .)

Of course, maybe it's an occupational hazard of talking about thsi stuff with parents. :shrug:

[TayTay]

16. It well could be.

Political talks in my family all happen at the speed of light, with a great deal of humor and, ahm, profanity. (Well, they do. It's just one of those things.) Points are also awarded as to who can make the other person laugh first. (It's just one of those Mass things.)

I had to start a conversation with my Rethug sister-in-law last Christmas over the card that the * people sent out to donors. (And a calandar and some other pice of swag.) I was told that I couldn't touch that stuff cuz I had Democratic Kerry cooties. (Sigh! Not a bit of wit in the whole intro.) Anyway, we actually segwayed from that into better topics. This Christmas, I will be better prepared. I do, after all, have a wicked better story to tell about actually meeting a Dem in person than they do about their Rethugs. (This is gonna be good.)