Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

For the Geek Table: Breaux on Health Care, vs. Kerry?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Democrats » John Kerry Group Donate to DU
 
MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-19-05 10:04 PM
Original message
For the Geek Table: Breaux on Health Care, vs. Kerry?
I'm just wondering if any of the proud geeks here watched the segment Breaux did, ""What Americans Want in Health Care Reform". The video is currently up on the cspan site.

I haven't watched it myself yet...just wondering if someone *cough*TayTay*cough*Whome*cough*...was geeky enough to have watched it and considered how it compares to Kerry's approach to health care. Is Breaux totally off the map, or is he right there with Kerry?

("For extra credit, compare and contrast both men's ideas on health care policy with the plan Hillary proposed in the 1990's"...ok just kidding...)

Just curious....my own geek time is up for tonight (spent most of it at a local candidates' forum), so I was hoping to mooch some knowledge and insight off you guys tomorrow during a work break.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I haven't watched it.
But it sounds intriguing. I'll get righton that. (Is there still 10% off my grade if I hand it in late Prof?)

I like the compare and contrast. Hillary's plan went through like 8 evolutions and wound up being, not so much. I'll look at Breaux's and see if it matches up with Kerry's innovative idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I haven't looked at the Breaux plan yet, but I tried to find
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 07:53 AM by karynnj
exactly what Hillary's plan was. Her autobiograpy really waltzes around it. From the book, I know it was 1342 pages long, that 48 hrs before Bill's initial speech - Hillary led him to realize that it had problems and they and a group of experts re-wrote it, that she got good reviews before Congress, and that they gave up before forcing a vote - which Hillary deemed a mistake. (One initial surprise was they originally planned to just give Congress an outline of principles, but found that Rostenkowski expected a detailed bill.)

After the failure of the universal health insurance plan, she claims the following as her achievements on health care.


"worked behind the scenes with Senator Kennedy to help create the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which by 2003 provided coverage to more than 5 million children ... represented the largest expansion of public health insurance since the passage of Medicaid in 1965."

So the woman who managed to annoy health professionals, insurance companies, and Congress while working on Universal Health coverage then helped Kennedy, who had been writing and passing legislation for over 30 years at that point and who had a perfectly good (uncredited) junior Senator (who also knew how to write legislation) who actually worked with him on a pre-cursor bill? Unless she really had impact on this, this claim could embarrass her.

- getting Bill to sign a series of bills on such things as allowing women to stay in the hospital more than 24 hrs after child birth, raising awareness of AIDS, and increasing research into .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Agreed on that.
That health plan was screwed from the start. It just was politically mismanaged so badly that it was a great contributing factor to the Dems losing Congress in '94. (Seriously. That is my outstanding problem with Hillary Clinton. She is not a great politician. I think she has gotten better, but she didn't have the people skills to sell her stuff. She is annoying me now because her idea of positioning herself for '08 is to run to the middle. Excuse me? Make a plan, tinker with it until is is good. Sell the freakin plan. No amount of running to the middle is going to help if you don't have the goods. Sigh!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Slightly OT,
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 08:42 AM by whometense
but on the subject of Hillary as pol. This came to me late last night as I was watching the emergency heating assistance press conference. After reading some of the comments people had made about Hillary I was watching her pretty closely.

I'm not sure I agree that she resents Kerry, but it came to me that she has an almost Margaret Thatcher-like, dragon lady kind of affect. She's tough, and I too feel like she's probably something of a bitch, but that quality's probably a prerequisite for any woman who wants a career in national politics.

It's more like what you're saying - that she's not a very good politician. No matter what she's really like in person and offstage, she comes across as cold. Just cold. Next to her Kerry is like a (tall, lean) teddy bear.

Oh, and I haven't seen the Breaux thing either, but now I'm curious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I agree with what you say
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 10:49 AM by karynnj
I really can't think of a woman, high in politics that hasn't had to do this. (The closest I can think of - but know relatively little about are Olymphia Snowe or Blanche Lincoln)

Comparing pictures of Hillary in the last 2 years with when she was first lady, there seems to be a coldness and unhappiness when she is not"on".

I like your comment that "Next to her Kerry is like a (tall, lean) teddy bear." He really was! So maybe this is the real strategy - Kerry, taking the passion that he always had but has learned he can show and the genuine feeling he has for people amplified by so much interaction with them will appear ONLY next to people who seem cold. After two years everyone will be saying that he's a huggable teddy bear. :) who everyone would want to have a hot chocolate with. (I don't want to picture beer drinking teddy bears.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. very observant, Karyn
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 10:56 AM by ginnyinWI
JK should appear with Hillary often! Side by side everyone can see who's the Real Deal. She may have a good heart--I'm not trying to say she doesn't--but she's a newbie at this game.


p.s. Now I want to have hot chocolate with Sen. Kerry! :donut:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Teddy Bear?
Oh dear, that's too funny.

Wonder if Condi thought that yesterday.

That's funny, given his history. I think he's likeable, but not a Teddy Bear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Whome said it first!
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 11:21 AM by karynnj
No, Condi doesn't get to see him as a Teddy Bear, but as a Big Powerful Bear who doesn't like her and wants to stop her evil plans. I'm not sure what type of bear that is - but I hope it's one that gives her nightmares.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I own up to it.
But ONLY in context of standing next to Hillary. He was fiercely in Condi's face. As she richly deserved.

And I agree with you, Karyn, about beer and teddies. Not a pleasant picture. :-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. she is indeed cold
She says the right words, but she doesn't exude the--- heart, for want of a better word, to connect with the audience. Bill is better at this, but JK is better than Bill. And I don't care WHAT the pundits say about that!

Hillary just doesn't seem to deeply feel it in her bones. Did anyone see her addressing an AA group a few weeks ago with Harry Belafonte and others? She lapsed into a Southern accent! I thought that was hilarious, but not effective.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I don't think the pundits are totally wrong on JK vs Bill
Edited on Thu Oct-20-05 11:15 AM by karynnj
There were so many times this year and last when Kerry was almost painfully sincere. To me it seemed that he cared very deeply about many things. But I don't think he would be good faking any emotion that he didn't feel - which I think Clinton can do. The other thing is I think he usually hides when things hurt him, which would explain the MA reaction to his concession.

Bill I think can appear to care both when he really does (and I do think he often does) and when he doesn't care. He is charismatic enough that you want to believe him, but there is a faint undertone of thinking his actions (biting his lip etc) are a bit rehearsed. As I didn't see this for a long time, it may just be Clinton fatigue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. This always bugged me
about Clinton. I never thought about it much till post-presidency, because it didn't take a long time to choiose between him and Bush senior, or Dole either for that matter.

But Clinton has always struck me as over-the-top, though maybe that's my inner New Englander speaking. I'm naturally much more comfortable with slightly reserved and dignified. Clinton's too gushy for my taste. But with Kerry the painful sincerity is always evident to me. I love him for it, because I can tell he's telling the truth. With Clinton, I was never sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm not from NE, but I'm with you
I'm origionaly from the Indiana side of the Chicago side. Maybe southern is too much for us too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. yes, that's what I meant to say about Bill
He knows how to be a good politician, but once I got a chance to hear Kerry, he seems less authentic by comparison. I mean, I always took Bill with a grain of salt--never completely believed in him. You are right about how much trust Kerry inspires because he always is so sincere. I "got" him pretty quickly, and I'm not even from New England! I recognized him as a member of my generation who shared the values and ideals we held back in the 60s and 70s.

Not at first glance though: my first impression was that he must be too out of touch, too rich, too stuffy, too "Washington", etc. But that was before I heard him discuss issues in the primary debates (impression: super-intellectual, super-knowledgeable, sincere, focused and committed) and got filled in on his life story, esp. the VVAW part.

And he grew as a candidate: he started out kind of reserved, unemotional (at least what I saw of him--the primary debates), but by the end of the general campaign he was much more "out there" with his emotions, not afraid to show his softer side, like some of you have written already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. True.
one of the things I've always most admired about Kerry is his ability to learn from his mistakes, to grow, and to genuinely change. My belief in his ability to do that has been reinforced by watching him since the election. He strikes me as much more open and demonstrative. I think the campaign changed him in the sense that he was forced to show his true self in public pretty much 24/7, and most people appreciated him. And a lot loved him. You don't go back after an experience like that. Unless it wasn't genuine in the first place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. No 10% off...
But it seems my query has stimulated a fun little discussion of Hillary. Ah well, I guess I should watch the video myself before asking you guys to do my work for me.

;-)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-20-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet
Well, the Sente was in session, and I had to work and there was a committee meeting and I will do so tomorrow when they adjourn for the weekend. I swear. Don't give up. People do come to the geek table. They just have to be all prepared and stuff. (And I have to go to the store and get pizza and hot chocolate and, ahm, teddy bears. AHm, scratch that last one. I not with them on that one. Nice and likeable and stuff, but I can't agree with the teddy bear thing. Sorry. I can go with what one of Kerry's daughter said, "He's goofy" sometimes. He's also a very good political warrior.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 28th 2014, 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Democrats » John Kerry Group Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC