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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:06 PM
Original message
One year anniversary of the first debate?
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow, time flies!
I remember I was SOOOOOO nervous for JK all day that day (I had butterflies in my stomach like it was gonna be ME who was debating). It wasn't that I lacked confidence in him, I just wanted everything to go perfectly. Within about two minutes after the debate started I was excited and cheering - I knew Kerry was in the process of handing Shrub his ass in a paper bag.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. it was exciting watching that debate
and how the Chimp just sucked throughout. i loved how they did the split screen of showing both candidates. and how the Chimp looked everytime Kerry was speaking.

this is why the whores had to rescue his ass by making a big thing out of the Mary Cheney comment. oh, and Lynne Cheney is a disgusting bitch with a cold piece of shit husband. i remember the bitch said Kerry was not a good man. well, what does she think of her disgusting beast of a husband's comments about "friend of John" when he was supposed to be looking at the mess created by the hurricane. and the campaign was over then. dumb fucking nasty ass bitch.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah, but that is a question I have
I don't know why they had him say that without a full PR strategy behind it. It's like he made the statement, and then they didn't have any sort of campaign "gays are our brothers, sisters, daughters and sons" or something. I never quite understood what the purpose of bringing Mary Cheney up at that point was.

Not that I think Lynn's response was anything but pure hypocritcal bitchdom.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. yeah, the response should have been better
Kerry himself had good things to say about how he has many friends who have risked their lives in war to defend this country and who he found out were gay. it shows the point he is making. but the problem is there needs to be a larger thing behind it with many in the party speaking out and backing up what he said.

and that has always been the problem. the Republicans get different people to go on tv to discuss various things but notice they ALL have one or two lines which they continuously repeat to hammer into people's heads. more recently you can see it with the "blame game" line when faced with criticism to the hurricane.

so instead of getting out what Kerry's point was the media is filled with Republicans and their fake outrage.

another time when we missed was when Giuliani blamed the troops instead of Bush for something that went wrong. a few people from Kerry's campaign responded. but it should have included other Dems from Senators, Governors, local officials, pundits etc.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. "there's enough blame to go around"
That's the one that's getting on my last nerve because it's so appealing to fair-minded liberals and independents. That's where the presstitutes site has it right. It isn't just Limbaugh and the obnoxious "blame game" type talking points. It's also these more subtle, reasonable words from the mainstream media. Dems need to figure out how to turn them into a "private joke", say them and then launch a missile to every one of their spitballs. An honest, factual missile.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. that reminds me of what they said when Kerry responded to attacks
they started with the "people want to hear the issues" comments. so even when Kerry was defending himself they didn't show what he was saying and made him appear in a negative light by saying he wasn't discussing things important to the people.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. That was just strange.
Kerry had been attacked three times in MA for his support of the anti-war efforts in the past. (One of them involved bringing then Congressman John McCain to Boston to have him rail against the protesting Kerry.) One of the after the election wrap-up did talk about how the guys from KErry's swift boats were getting older and were grandfathers and such and had lives. And it was August, prime vacation time. And it's just not that easy to round everyone up for another press junket. That said, the best thing that happened was the Rood (sp?) article in the Chicago Tribune. That was the most effective debunker or O'Neill and Corsi's lies.

The thing that did hurt was the windsurfing ad in August. (It was also inevitable.) Sen. Kerry went to the Nantucket house to relax and strategize with his team for the rest of the campaign. The media came along. They took those pics of him in Nantucket Sound and spun the sport into an elite and expensive hobby that made Kerry look 'out-of-touch.' Next time, don't invite the media to Nantucket. If they want long shots of the Senator on the water, they should have to buy it from the National Enquirer type paparazzi.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. I still don't get the whole "windsurfing is elitist" thing
I'm looking out my window right now and my neighbor has his board right behind his house under a tarp. My neighbor is hardly elitist, but of course now his hopes of ever becoming president have been dashed. (Sarcasm) Windsurfing, kite boarding, surfing - those are just things people do when they live in places where there is a lot of water, wind and open sky. People around here may not always have the money to pay the rent, but dammit if the wind is blowing or the waves are up they're gonna be out there.

(Of course I know all of you know that - I'm just sayin'.)
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. What I remember most from that debate was when it was over and
Kerry was walking off stage, people in the audience were shouting
"KERRY! KERRY! KERRY!" :cry: :cry: :cry:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. August 2004 - The Way It WAS
I wrote this a while ago, but in light of a couple posts and blog pieces today, I'll repost it.



From the moment John Kerry became the clear winner of the Democratic primary, he led in the polls. He led in the polls in the early spring, through the selection of John Edwards as Vice President, through the convention, and through most of the month of August. Despite the medias incessant claim that there was no convention bounce, Kerry was ahead in the polls in August from 1 to 8 points, across the board. Dont believe me? Its on the internets, take a look. Be sure and take a look at the Bush bounce as well, outside of the Time/Newsweek poll, Bush had the same 1 to 8 point lead after the RNC convention.

So what happened to that consistent lead? With the signing of Form 180 and the release of Kerrys Navy records, many are giving credit to the lies and smears of the Swift Boat Vets. Despite the fact that John ONeill hasnt stopped making these outlandish statements since 1971, somehow people think that the release of the exact same Navy records that Kerry had on his web site would have appeased these weasels. Just today, the Boston Globe (Kerry's Vietnam, see Ron's post above) has repeated the canard that Kerrys failure to respond damaged the campaign.

But is Kerrys failure to respond any more accurate than the lack of a convention bounce? I dont see it.

On August 4, the Swift Boat Vets released a new ad, after having been knocked down by the campaign in May. From Media Matters, in an August 5 interview with the Associated Press, Senator John McCain (R-AZ), "a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called the ad criticizing John Kerry's military service 'dishonest and dishonorable' and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well."

Between August 4 and August 19, Cutter said the campaign relied on the news media, surrogates and 700 letters to the editor to discredit the charges, including Carville taking on ONeill on Crossfire on August 12.

On August 19 at the IAFF convention, Kerry stated "They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the president won't denounce what they're up to tells you everything you need to know: he wants them to do his dirty work. After noting the Navy records that awarded him his medals, he added "Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam.

The campaign releases Rassmann ad, "All these Viet Cong were shooting at me. I expected I'd be shot. When he pulled me out of the river, he risked his life to save mine."

On August 21, the campaign released the internet ad Old Tricks along with this statement: A front group for the Bush campaign called "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" is continuing to spread their lies about John Kerry's military record. Their statements have been contradicted by official Navy records, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune and every man who served under John Kerry -- yet George Bush refuses to condemn their tactics. Through his silence, George Bush is approving their action. And Bush campaign officials in Florida are even promoting events for this front group.

Enough is enough. No matter what these Bush campaign shills now say, John Kerry's commanders remarked in 1969 that, "In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed." In fact, all of John Kerry's performance reports (available on our website) display an absolutely heroic record of service.

On August 25, Max Cleland attempted to deliver a letter to George Bush asking where is his shame to attack a fellow veteran who has distinguished himself in combat?"

So, why did Senator Kerrys numbers begin to fall AFTER he launched his attack against the Swift Boat Vets. Interestingly, The American Enterprise magazine has this opinion The media establishment finally took notice when Senator Kerry attacked you publicly on August 19. ONeill agreed.

I dont know whether thats true or not. I do know one thing though. As I was going through liberal blogs to find the references for this post, two things were noticeably missing. One was any reference to the agenda Kerry was laying out, which is a story for another day.

But the most important thing that was missing was gut level righteous indignation. What I should have seen was We have sunk so low in this country that we are willing to denigrate a mans war service, simply because he is a Democrat. Anybody who would do that isnt worth the shrapnel in John Kerrys ass.

Thats all we should have heard then, thats all we ought to hear now. Some things are sacred and a soldiers honorable war service to our country is one of them.

LINKS:
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=1...
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. That's what we should have heard
which is why I blame the media, but mostly, I blame the big name Dems who didn't stand up and say what needed to be said.
The swiftboat liars should have been sunk on day one, and they would have been if the leading Dems had done their job. Every one of them who didn't is responsible for our loss. They should all but a few be ashamed for letting us down.
Look at what Sen Kerry is doing for the '06 congressional candidates.
I can't imagine for one minute he wouldn't stick his neck out for any one of them. I got two e-mails from Sen Kerry this week asking me to support them.
Where were they when we needed them?
Silent. They were fucking silent.
They are why we lost.

When the swiftboaters impugned his honor.
When the terror alert was raised at every convenient moment.
When the flip-flopping, wind-surfing, Teresa-hating, French-looking, third grade bullshit started.
When the purple heart band-aids came out,where were they?

They were silent. And that's why we lost.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. look at Kerry's defense of McCain, Gore , Cleland etc
when they were being unfairly attacked, especially on their military service. it was always outrage at them for even attempting to question their service. he made it about those attacking and how horrible they are rather than take any of the attacks themselves seriously.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Honestly, I love most of our Dem leaders.
But on this, they failed. And I'll wager they are still failing at defending the '04 campaign. It's too late to support it, they just didn't. Obviously, it's too late to fix it, they didn't do that either. But it's not too late to recognize that they just didn't do what should have been done.
I hope they realize that they blew it. They were wrong, and it's time for them to fess up, if only to themselves, instead of just pretending it never happened. Maybe if they do that, it won't happen in '08. I doubt it, but maybe.
I know that both John and John put their hearts and souls into winning. And I think we did, too. The failure was not K/E, and it was not ours. It was theirs. Our leaders let us down. I really believe that.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. "they just didn't do what should have been done"
They should have been there 24/7 lifting Kerry and Edwards up. They should have taken one look at Lynne Cheney and said "we gotta counter this stuff."

Oh well, maybe next time.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. What burns me
is that I got two e-mails from Sen Kerry this week asking for support for '06 candidates.

Hey! All you people Sen Kerry is supporting in the run up to '06...
Yeah, you. The one with my money...
Where the hell were you last year?

:grr: :grr: :grr:

Hope they learned something, at least.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. an article from the Kerry Reference Library on debate 1
It's toward the bottom of a long page of articles:

Julie Foley, a certified image consultant and founder of The Consultant of Style in Weymouth, said while Bush's lighter grey suit and blue tie conveyed warmth, Kerry diminished Bush's style by sporting a very presidential dark suit and red tie.

``Red is power,'' she said. ``Kerry dressed like a president and has stately body language. The president also slouched terribly. He was leaning on the podium, and I know he's a relaxed guy, but I can't believe he didn't stand up straight. I think his mother is going to be all over him.''

snip

Comedian Tony V, who, at 10:15 p.m. was ``still as confused as when they started,'' admitted he liked the president's down-to-earth demeanor.

``George Bush sounds like someone you want to talk to,'' he said. ``I read somewhere people choose a president they'd like to have a beer with. Me, I'd rather choose a president and go out with people I like. I feel bad. He reminds me of Fredo in `The Godfather.' I can hear him saying: `I'm smart. I know things. I'm not stupid.' ''

snip

``I can't get it out of my head,'' he said. ``George W. looked like Alfred E. Neuman. And Kerry looks like he was born with a suit on.''


http://kerrylibrary.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopi...
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That whole "want to have a beer with" thing was bull.
He reminds me of the creepy guy at the end of the bar no one's talking to. Calling everyone weird nicknames. Ick. If I needed a ride home, and he was the only one offering, I think I'd call a cab. Have a beer with? I'd stop drinking first.

Speaking of bush*'s nicknames, I saw a list of bush*'s nicknnames for people today. His nickname for Teddy is "Senator". He doesn't have one for Mr Kerry. As it should be.




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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Given his propensity for nicknames,
I assume he had a nickname for Kerry - but it just hasn't leaked.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. "born with a suit on"
That's a great description.

It's what I was talking about when I posted this picture:



Even when he's doing scruffy he looks put together.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. He's got their backs. . .
and there you have it. . .

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. We Were Right In 2004
It sure as hell isn't too late for the Dem leadership to begin that campaign, because we *were* right in 2004. It doesn't seem that there's an easier way to win in 2006 then to point out how many times our own Presidential candidate was right. And if the DNC wants to be fair to everybody for 2008, then just stretch it out a bit and show 2004 campaign tape from all of them, repeating the 'we were right' points that need to be made.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. if the media would have wanted Kerry to win,
he'd have won by a huge, un-corruptable landslide.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
17. That was so exciting.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:04 PM by TayTay
I remember being at work and all these AP stories were coming over the wire how Sen. Kerry's people were 'worried because he was having trouble keeping to the time limits." The Kerry team was confident in their guy and was just putting out spin to get the Bushies so over-confident that they would make mistakes.

(This puzzled me because I have seen Sen. Kerry debate many, many times and he is very, very good, as you guys now know. Kerry had 8 debates with Weld in '96 and he just stuffed that bastard. I was so surprised last year that more people didn't realize that Kerry was in his element in a debate and that he would just kill.)

The night before the Sarasota debate, the Bushies were so overconfident that they went out drinking and let their candidate get tired at a hurricane support event the day of the debates. Bush was tired and off his game that night big time. He looked like a little kid who gets annoyed at being called out on his mistakes. Kerry just stomped him. My favorite articles of the whoe campaign came in the next days as campaign crowds would just erupt in deafening applause whenever Sen. Kerry would start talking about 'the debate." LOL! The article said he was a little surprised by this reaction. (It is pretty cerebral, when you come to think of it.)
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. There was a decent thread yesterday in GD about Kerry and the media.
Someone was saying that what Kerry needs someone to handle the media for him. I agree. The message is there. His head and his heart are in the right place. If Kerry was managed properly through the media, there would be no stopping him. He is exactly what this country needs right now.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. Look at the difference in these two!


and could we forget:


or this:
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. These are awesome pics
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:18 PM by TayTay
Kerry looked so good and so Presidential. Gawd I thought that any sane human being would look at these two and conclude that one was an intelligent, thoughtful and politically savvy individual and the other was a petulant and ill-informed child. Sigh!

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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-01-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. His suits always look iron and clean
While Smirky's look cheap and wrinkled like he got them from Walmart or somewhere. :rofl:

I agree. Very presidential.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. the man wears a suit very well
The best models are the ones who are on the thin side, because they make the clothes look better. He must be a joy for his tailor to work with! He also stands very straight(military) and has a lot of poise and grace. It's hard to catch him on film looking awkward.

His opponent looked more like Rumplestiltskin--hunched over and bunched up, with a twisted face. Twisted posture and twisted mind. Each one's body language were good mirrors of the characters underneath!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. These were the players that helped Kerry make Bush look like a buffoon
Before and After Debate: Blacks play key role in Kerry Campaign
Date: Friday, October 01, 2004
By: Michael H. Cottman, Special to BlackAmericaWeb.com

Miami When John F. Kerry stepped onto the University of Miami stage last night for the first of three presidential debates with George W. Bush, the fingerprints of Vernon Jordan were everywhere.

Jordan, the black lawyer and Washington insider who was President Clintons first friend, headed the team which negotiated the terms of the debates for Kerry a role that put Jordan inside the Massachusetts senators innermost circle of advisers.

At a time when Republicans routinely criticize Democrats for taking blacks for granted, the list of Kerrys black campaign aides is both long and impressive. In addition to Jordan, there is Susan Rice, a foreign affairs specialist who was the Clinton administrations assistant secretary of state for African affairs. She helped coach Kerry for last nights debate, which focus on foreign issues.

Kerrys team of black advisers also includes Terry Edmonds, who made history when Clinton named him his top speechwriter. Now Edmonds is Kerry's lead speech writer. Bill Lynch, who was a top aide to former New York Mayor David Dinkins and former Labor secretary Alexis Herman are also key black advisers to Kerry.

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/cottma...
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/kerry9...
:)

I remember the day after. Tom Joyner and the gang were real proud of Kerry. Tom even referred as "my man John Kerry" and how he looked and sounded presidential. Good optimism until this lady at my hair salon pissed me off by saying how disappointing Kerry's closure was. She said we should have nominated someone else. :grr:

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Vernon Jordan is an amazing man
And a very elegant man. He really is a power player.

Thanks for posting this! I did not know that.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-30-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. He is.
Edited on Fri Sep-30-05 11:58 PM by politicasista
You're welcome. Also, remember I was telling you about Susan Rice, info about her is in the second link. She, Vernon, and the gang rocked that night. :hi:
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
30. I just got done watching it - I have it recorded on my dvr
:shrug:
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
One thing I have to say, Bsh's delivery wasn't has bad as I had remembered it. BUT he was so full of it, especially when he was talking about first responders; and how he would never waiver no matter how bad things got in his party - lol!

Enough about him!

Kerry was magnificient. Presidential. He explained VERY CLEARLY his position on Iraq, and over and over explained that he did not vote to go to War, only as a last resort.

All I can say after watching again, without all the intensity of the election, is the only reason that Kerry is not our President today is because nobody was pushing his message. Kerry always was consistent and clear on his positions. But somehow his words got lost along the way.
Kerry should have won this election by a landslide. ;( ;(
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-04-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. it's good to go back and look from time to time,
because people like to rewrite history so that the loss makes sense--because it really didn't make sense.

He won those three debates, and he should have won the election. Without a slanted media and rampant voter problems I know he would have. My proof: when people are polled, their responses line up with Democrats. They didn't get a clear enough message (thanks, media! x( ) and when some tried to vote Kerry, their votes were lost or flipped to *. Never forget how close that vote was in Ohio.

If I thought it would help, I'd post quotes from my saved videos all over DU in reponse to things like, "he has no spine", etc. From the primary debates going forward he was always both stating his policies and attacking * for his. He did everything he should have.

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