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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 02:23 PM
Original message
Could Cheney's embarrassment be Kerry's gain?
CNN:

After the heckle, a reporter asked: "Are you getting a lot of that Mr. Vice President?"

Cheney replied: "That's the first time I've heard it. Never mind. A friend of John -- oh never mind."

On CNN, Jack Cafferty and Wolf Blitzer discussed the incident. Here's that transcript :

"CAFFERTY: The vice president said that's the first time he heard it. Didn't he utter the same phrase to Senator Patrick Leahy on the floor of the United States Senate?

"BLITZER: Yes.

"CAFFERTY: So it wasn't the first time he heard it. He said it ...

"BLITZER: It is the first time he heard it in this context of this trip.

"CAFFERTY: You know what, I'll bet it's not the last."


Dan Froomkin: "My question: Who is John? John Kerry?"

I think I like the way Cheney injected the idea of President Kerry into the scene.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. comment 1
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 02:44 PM by whometense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

    I'm hoping his Dissing comment about John Kerry goes all over the internet. I'm sure if I heard it many others did too and it should be reported that he only cares about politics and business and uses every opportunity to slam Democrats that he can. That comment by Cheney was uncalled for and, the guy who made it is probably right now on his way to GITMO.



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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. What's especially nice is that what KERRY is doing
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:26 PM by karynnj
is so totally what even the RW has to admit is at least ok.

- (with Teresa) Calling Lott and presumably helping (or Lott wouldn't have mentioned it - I'm still surprised Kerry's the only one he mentioned and think it really cool that Kerry himself didn't say he (or more likely Teresa) did anything.)

-sending a compassionate and caring message, suggesting people contribute and giving appropriate links

-putting together a Small Business related legislation package

- oh, by the way he just returned from Iraq which is in turmoil

Cheney should realise this may not be when he wants to diss Kerry. People may hear that he's been working pretty hard to actually help people. It might even cause reporters to repeat Kerry's quote on his evaluation of the Bush administration's accomplishments. Kerry sure did a lot for a Senator they want to cast as a windsurfing empty suit.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Exactly what I was thinking.
I think this was a big mistake on Cheney's part, especially since that clip has been gleefully spread around the blogosphere and had a featured role in last night's Daily Show.

Maybe Cheney thought it made him look like he could take a joke. I thought it made him look like an ass.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. comment 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

    They can never allow people to think that Democrats would have been better

    Look at that dumb fuck Bernie Goldberg's book about 100 People Screwing Up America.

    Jimmy Carter! Plus, isn't he in the top 10 in that book. Totally ridiculous.

    They must forever maintain the vilification of their opponents. I actually have had Freeper idiots on another board my wife and I run both DEFEND Bush's response to Katrina AND try to talk shit about how it's a good thing Kerry wasn't President. I've been destroying them with facts and they are hurting. I mostly post things from here just to try to bring reality to them. I think it's working, somewhat.

    The Repubs and their Cult Members are desperate to maintain their illusions, it's all they have!

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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. to me,
Cheney has gotten slightly more control over his mouth--enough to barely avoid giving the media a wonderful soundbite worth repeating everywhere. Too bad.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. unfortunately true.
BUT - the bit that did escape from his mouth was just enough to get people speculating. And sometimes that can create more buzz than if he actually had said the whole name.

So far I haven't heard anyone guess he was referring to anyone other than JK.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. In one thread that was oh-so-typical of GD
I saw people discussing this, and they were wracking their little brains to come up with anyone BUT Kerry that Cheney must have been referring to.

"Maybe John Conyers..."
"John Edwards?"
"John McCain probably!"

Grabbing desperately at straws to prove that John Kerry is so irrelevant, why, Cheney must not have been talking about him. Pathetic. Fortunately, most people understood Cheney's obvious reference to Kerry.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. hahahahaha!
That really is pathetic. Why would John Edwards or John Conyers pop into his mind??
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. God no kidding
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:22 PM by WildEyedLiberal
I mean, God love him and I do too, but no one outside of DU pays John Conyers any attention. That's a shame, because he was one of the loudest voices screaming about election fraud, but their insistence that he is a viable candidate for president (!) just goes to show what kind of myopic echo chamber these people live in.

And like JI7 said, if Kerry was SO horrible and SO irrelevant, why do they expend so much energy trying to discredit him?
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. he is so irrelevant and was a horrible candidate
that they feel the need to crap in any thread on him. and to start threads themselves on it.

seriously, if someone who was as bad as they claim Kerry is decided to run against whoever they support woudln't you welcome it ? after all they aren't a threat. the person they like is so much superior.

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. they really hate Kerry don't they ?
it's one thing when it's during a political campaign. but usually after it's over and especially if you won then you go on with other things . they didn't go after Al Gore the way they do with Kerry after the election was over.

there is a certain type (regardless of political affiliation) that easily goes crazy whenever Kerry is brought up. and not just that but they always feel the need to bring him up just to bash him.

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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I've found it's a really good way of determining someone's character
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:18 PM by WildEyedLiberal
To an extent, liberal/conservative can define what kind of quality of a person you are, but I know plenty of nice conservatives. I've found that how a person regards John Kerry, however, is an excellent indicator of their internal moral compass and integrity. Most people I know have basically no real opinion on him, so it's a difficult standard to apply. However, all the people I know who love him are stellar, goodhearted human beings, and all the people I know who can't stand him have some or another personality/integrity/honesty flaw that I find troubling.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:27 PM
Original message
That's a very interesting
way to look at it.

I'd have to agree. Witness the people in this group, which in my experience has no parallel anywhere online. I get around a bit, and have not come across any other place where the group tone is as kind, thoughtful, intelligent as it is here.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. i think one reason is
that he doesn't let them get to him. the more they bash him and the less he reacts to them the more angry they get. because it shows just who is REALLY irrelevant.

remember the debates and how easily Bush reacted to anything Kerry did or said. but Kerry didn't do the same. he was in control and knew what he was doing.

i remember the primary debates and Kerry was very similar in those also. there were many candidates so you can't tell as easily since they didn't get much time. but just watching the parts with Kerry , he was the same way he was in the debates with Bush and i would say the same with Weld .

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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Good point
And I think that's exactly what a lot of the lefty freepers hate: that he doesn't jump through hoops to appease their every whim. It DOES make them feel irrelevant, and it makes them FURIOUS as a result.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. lol
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:34 PM by ginnyinWI
That first sentence made me laugh---spot on! :) It says it all. It's envy!! I'm going to have to work that into any replies I make in defense of JK.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Well said.
That does make perfect sense. Maybe that's what makes them crazy about his "careful" statements. Any politician who hopes to stay in office has to think before he speaks. But they want him foaming at the mouth, and Kerry doesn't do wild lunatic. He does DA. Cool and cerebral. Makes it impossible for them to find the ammo they need to take him apart. So instead, just like the repugs, they invent pretend Kerrys (he has no spine!) to demolish. Thus marginalizing themselves completely.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. and that is what we love most about JK
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:45 PM by ginnyinWI
He is smart, knowledgeable, cool, self-controlled,dedicated, and self-confident without being arrogant. That's half the reason we wanted him as our president. The other half is his wit, grace, charm, and big heart.


edit: anyway, the point is that you pick a guy to LEAD you, not OBEY your every command!
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I'll never understand it.
Maybe it's somehow related to the way the press has always insisted on misinterpreting him. It's an odd thing.

And yet so many people love him when they get to see him up close. Makes no sense. I haven't met anyone who has met him personally and who dislikes him (press and rabid wingnuts excepted). In fact, to the contrary, he inspires absolute loyalty. His ex-wife won't say a bad word about him. Hell, his ex-wife's twin brother is still one of his best friends.

He's such a good man. But it's easy to mock and/or hate a caricature.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I think that goes to the heart of why I think Kerry fans are better people
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:27 PM by WildEyedLiberal
All of us either a) knew him and his life from personal observation (eg, you and other Massholes), or b) got off our asses and bothered to find out about our party's candidate prior to the primaries/election. I regret that my conversion didn't happen until about August of last year, but then again, I had never really SEEN Kerry until the convention. Once I saw him, and liked what I saw, I became determined to know more about him, and here I am. Personally, I think the desire to be knowledgeable and informed as opposed to just being a kneejerk ideologue is a very desirable personality trait.
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. I'm thinking about your comment, specifically,
"I had never really SEEN Kerry until the convention. Once I saw him, and liked what I saw, I became determined to know more about him, and here I am."

I think for many of us it was the same way...we didn't know him, didn't SEE him in the forfront because he very much is a "behind the scenes" kind of guy. He's not a camera hound and he just quietly takes care of business.

So...keeping these in mind, how do "we" or kerry's people move Kerry into the "learn more about kerry zone" without him actually being a "candidate for 08".

I suspect the less 08 is discussed by kerry's people helps him more-gives people less time to keep bashing, gives kerry more time to work on the election fraud, and give people more time to "grow a brain."

But what I'm thinking is there has to be little ways people just try to show kerry in a more favorable light while directing people to see how the media sweftboated him and that ANY candidate would have been screwed by this propaganda we have. AND any candidate would have been screwed after the stolen election.

BUT the nuts are always gonna have it in for him. They're idealogues, like the right winged nuts who just hated Clinton even though all of us were doing so well under his management.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I think they really do
I can't understand it, other than it is something completely irrational.

Are they mad because Dean didn't get the nomination?

Are they mad because Kerry didn't win (feeling like abandoned baby birds?)

Do they understand anything about the way the world really works? (Do they understand anything?)

Are they mad because Kerry still has a position of power in the government (which makes them freepers)?

Is it an irrational displacement of anger at the * administration onto Kerry?

Some people, for whatever reason, have made it their life's mission to bash Kerry. They don't really care much about the Democratic Party--they just want to belong to a hate group.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Kerry's calm demeanor
Much of what you said made me remember August 2004, when the SBVT were out in force, he made that mistake in the Grand Canyon, and then the Repub Convention of endless bashing, smearing, and purple heart band aids. This was an absolute low point of the campaign, and many have criticised him for "not fighting back", or to "defend his honor". But I just got the sense that yes, he used his Vietnam service as a selling point for his candidacy, but the campaign wasn't about him. It was about this great country, and how he wanted to restore honor to IT. It was like, "yes, you can use ME as a punching bag" because I want to serve and make America better. Although things were bad then, he remained strong, even if he was being portrayed as weak. And that strength, unfiltered by the media, was there for all to see during the debates. God, I wish we had his strength in the WH right now.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I can't add anything to that.
It's perfect.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Rolling Stone Interview
Classic Kerry. I love it.


Did you get angry at Bush personally?

Look, I know politics is tough, and I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what they do to me. But I do worry, and I am angry, about what they do to the American people. That's what this race is about. It's not about me. I can take it -- I don't care. I've been in worse things. I was on those boats -- I got shot at. I can handle it.

What I worry about is that they lie to America. What I worry about is that they tell the middle class, "We're giving you a tax cut," and the top one percent of America gets more than eighty percent of the rest of the people. I worry that they are unwilling to do anything about the 5 million Americans who have lost their health care.

I worry that there are twenty-eight states in America where you can't go fishing and eat the fish, because of the quality of the water. I worry that they've gotten us into a war where young kids are dying, and they haven't done what's responsible to protect them. That's what I worry about. The rest of it is small pickings.

You don't get angry when Bush outright lies about you?

No, I don't get angry at it. I think it's sort of pathetic.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/6562106?rnd...
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I wonder if part of it is that they misinterpret Kerry's ability
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 03:42 PM by karynnj
to take huge personal blows and emerge still focused, still fighting, with his head up and a smile on his face. Where a lot of us here, depressed by the election results, were amazed and impressed by his strength - some of them choose to think he cared less than they did or somehow didn't understand the importance.

I think it was interesting that the only time the Globe was nice to him was after he was unable to hide that his emotions when he conceded. That he was near tears may have made them realize that he could be hurt, but then he pulled himself together - so I guess no more sympathy.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I think you may be on to something
I guess some people just wanted him to express the same grief and anger that we all felt on November 3. To be honest, if he had expressed himself like I expressed myself to friends and family on that dark day, his political career would have been history. (And they probably would have locked him up in a looney bin.)

That fact that he is still out there fighting for every one of us every single day proves that he is one of the toughest, most resilient political leaders this nation has ever seen.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. I still have that article from the Globe
Ahm, first the Globe snark. Kerry finished 4th in the Globe's 'Most influential Bostonian' list for 2004. (Oh dear gawd, control yourself TayTay, make that cup of tea and come back. Ah, better now.) Kerry came in behind Theo Epstein, GM of the Red Sox (well, they had a good year) and the person who handles the doors at some theater. (They are smoking something funny over at Morrissey Blvd, I swear.)

Anyway, that article was a genuine love poem to Kerry. They briefly recapped the hopeful day turning into a down night and a grey next day. Then they noted how the people of Boston turned out for Kerry. They lined the streets for the caravan from Beacon Hill to Fanueil Hall. They were there in the thousands and they were mournful and respectful.

John Kerry has never had it easy in Massachusetts. While the voters deeply respected his intellect and his commitment to a progressive social agenda, he has been held at arm's length for a lot of his tenure in public office in the Commonwealth. Part of this we have discussed at length in this forum. He's not a Kennedy, he's not a huggy guy in front of a camera and he is cerebral and not an Irish back-slapper, like so many pols in the State.

But he ran a good race. He took a beating from the evil Rethugs who attacked him, personally, and attacked his family and his record. Mr. Kerry didn't fold, didn't whine about himself and how he was misunderstood, he kept on talking about what he wanted to do for the country. He, in local parlance, 'sucked it up' and kept on fighting right up to that damn close ending. He defended the honor of the state and he didn't apologize for the actions of his Massachusetts. He was proud of his home state and his home state noticed. Massachusetts gave Mr. Kerry his highest vote count, with over 61% of the state voting for it's Senator.

And on that final day, he rose above the bitterness and the pain and he faced the music in public and in front of all those Rethugs across the country who had demonized him and he offered grace and thanks and hope for the future. He was a class act. He remembered that a lot of people had fought their hearts out for him and he said he wished he could grab each one of us and hug us. We saw his heart, that big heart that is there, but is usually kept a bit apart so that heart doesn't overwhelm brain and make action useless. But we saw it. And he got public love for it. In Boston, the city that doesn't cry, doesn't like whining and that doesn't tolerate losing. Because he didn't lose, he was a class act.

And the Globe article concluded by saying that Mr. Kerry went all this distance and endured all this stuff and, in the end, found something that had never been publicly expressed in cold, reserved Boston: love. He done good. He should be proud of himself. And so should we.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. Story about the "go f*** yourself, Mr. Cheney" guy on dKos
I actually think the best part of the guy was his famous lines:

"Go fuck yourself, Mr. Cheney. Go fuck yourself, asshole"

But I thought the diary was a little overdramatic. I mean he's actually NOT at GITMO:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/9/153413/7797

Go to the evil site and check it yourself.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Don't have to go to Dkos
Go to Raw Story all info and links are there.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Man_who_said_fuck_yoursel...
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