Sorry guys but I didn't realize that Kerry not only endorsed Obama but went to Edwards home state

[saracat]

do so.

"John Kerry today went to the state where John Edwards was born, South Carolina, to endorse someone else in the Democratic presidential race: Barack Obama."


That is just wrong. Imagine if Edwards had gone to Mass to endorse another candiate.Now I feel worse.

No way now do I just believe he liked Obama better.

[globalvillage]

1. OK. I've had enough.

Does John Kerry not have a right to endorse who he pleases? Did anyone here put you down for supporting Edwards? Can you really post in here with THAT avitar and feel you have a right to judge the Senator's choice of candidates?

I'm sorry. I ignored your last one, but every time I see that vile woman on your posts in this forum and think of what she's said about the Kerrys, I just want to scream.

God Damn. THIS IS THE JOHN KERRY FORUM.

[saracat]

4. Okay Bye!

[globalvillage]

5. Whatever.

[LittleClarkie]

6. I don't think she means anything by the avatar.

After all, she's met Kerry several times.

I think she just feels caught in the middle between two men she admires.

[globalvillage]

9. And that's fine

and why I didn't say anything until now. But she insists that the Senator isn't entitled to endorse Obama, questions his judgement and his integrity, and does it repeatedly. I didn't say anything the first time. I gave her the benefit of the doubt.
I never said an unkind word about either JRE or EE until now. I held my tongue out of respect for his supporters. That's all it takes.

[saracat]

16. Thank you Little Clarkie.I appreciate that. What you say is true.

[kerrygoddess]

8. Yes it is the Kerry Forum (not the Obama Forum)

And personally I think discussing the election in this forum should be banned. Feelings are getting hurt left and right in here. I stay out of it most times, but regardless of what might have been said by EE about the Kerry's calling EE "vile" is uncalled for. Get a grip.

Eidted to add: I think all of you Kerry peeps in here would have been unglued if JK decided to endorse anyone but Obama and for that reason the conversations that include the '08 election should be in GD and not here. Because it would suck for JK to lose supporters because his supporters are as understanding and gracious as he is.

[beachmom]

12. Kerry endorsed Obama today; therefore it is appropriate to discuss

this endorsement in the John Kerry forum, including the hurt feelings. We try to not talk about the primaries too much, but hey -- it's easy to fall off the wagon. I think all of us have said stuff we shouldn't have, and then told ourselves not to talk about the primaries, only to find ourselves in pitched battle a couple of months later. It's normal, and to be expected.

This is an organic forum full of Kerry supporters. We do our best, but we're never going to adhere to all the rules perfectly. And I think most of us are friends; when something important has happened, ESPECIALLY if it directly involves Kerry, then we feel the need to talk about it.

It's going to be okay.

[globalvillage]

13. "Get a Grip"?

Excuse me. I have refrained from making any public comments about either Edwards until now, but I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone here.
Maybe 'vile' is too strong. 'Ungrateful' and 'snide' might be closer.

[kerrygoddess]

14. She's a woman and mother

and she has terminal cancer. And if Saracat wants to use that icon, she shouldn't be met with what you dished out whether it is the first time you have or not.

[fedupinBushcountry]

19. Yes

and JRE has used her as a cover to diss Kerry. By the way I don't have a horse in this race as of yet.

[globalvillage]

20. That doesn't excuse what she's said.

How does being a woman/mother/cancer victim change what she did? I don't see any logic in that at all.

[kerrygoddess]

22. Because this isn't about her.

Or wasn't until you made it about her.

[globalvillage]

24. No,

It was about someone posting in here that she wouldn't vote for Obama if he's the nominee, that JK, despite what he said, didn't endorse him because he likes Obama better, and that endorsing Obama makes JK look 'small' and that he was carrying a grudge.
JK gave a speech about why he supports Obama. Is his word not good enough here?
And what being a woman has to do with having the right to attack people is really beyond me. Perhaps you can explain that one. When your done, maybe you can tell me which topic I can discuss next.

[JI7]

27. gv, i totally agree with you

i disagreed with Kerry on his endorsing Webb but never questioned his character .

[globalvillage]

28. Thank you.

I'll stop arguing this, but only because I realize it doesn't represent JK well for a supporter to be this negative, and I'm not making my point with some folks here anyway. I don't think the Senator deserved to be questioned for his decision any more than he, Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton should have been disrespected by Mrs. Edwards, which they all have been in recent months.
Apologies for any offense to the members of this group.

update to clarify

[karynnj]

35. I agree and questioning Kerry's basic character

and essentially calling his a liar in his reasons is likely a violation of the ground rules for this group. Kerry's speech is extremely consistent with views expressed going back to 1966 for those on the international side. Kerry has always restrained himself from the type of personal attacks that Edwards has used - it is hard to see how you can be the person to get beyond the partisanship when you are saying that you won't talk to corporations involved in industries you will be regulating.

[kerrygoddess]

29. I read the post you refer to

and honestly it was far more tempered than calling EE a vile woman.

I look at EE and I see a woman who's suffered the tragic loss of child, had breast cancer and now has terminal cancer. I personally have compassion for what she's been through. And I guess being a woman doesn't give anyone the right to attack anyone does it? It's no more right for her to say what she said about JK and THK than for you to call her vile I guess.

[karynnj]

38. One of the two is asking to be first lady

and she is using her soft spoken, victim voice for character assignation and distortion - the ultimate fist in a velvet glove. Vile might be a little strong, but it is very frustrating seeing this. She is one of the mean girls some of us saw in middle school. So perfect and commendable on the surface as they attack that it is hard to respond.

My guess is that she may be motivated to do this now as she sees JE's run being successful the end that justifies the means.

[globalvillage]

41. You're right.

Vile is the wrong word. It implies evil, and I don't think that. Instead, I should have pointed out the nasty attacks she has made against various Dems rather than calling her 'vile'. It was the wrong choice of words.
That doesn't change the fact that she dished it out long before I threw it back. And it doesn't change the fact that neither her gender nor her illness give her any excuse for misrepresenting and attacking other Dems to get her husband elected.

As for this OP, the other one here, and the one in GDP that alludes to some endorsement conspiracy, I'll attempt to ignore them.

[kerrygoddess]

50. Or you could have left her out of it

And simply addressed Saracat on her comment and not attacked EE because Saracat uses an icon with EE's pic. That's what I meant by you brought her into the conversation. Saracat did not mention her. It was over the top.

[karynnj]

34. She also has been a person who has used her illness

to distort. It was completely beyond the pale for her, on the eve of the Iowa caucus, to say that she could not get health insurance under Obama's plan. This was just wrong and she likely knew it. There was plenty of coverage in the media on the plans and the plan is on Obama's site. This was a planned statement - not a response to a question. In her book, she spoke of not being able to defend the Kerry/Edwards plan because they didn't tell her what it was. If I could find it on Kerry's web site and find some pretty detailed reviews of it sitting in NJ, it's hard to believe she couldn't. (Her husband called it too expensive in the primaries, so obviously he found some information on it.)

Many of us were also offended with her claims, that many of us see as not true, that John Edwards wanted to challenge the election. This was done to make Edwards the darling of the far left, but it very directly hurts Kerry. The Kerrys have not said ONE word against the Edwards. Elizabeth Edwards will be a woman, mother and have terminal cancer for the rest of her life - the cancer diagnosis stinks, but she can't use it as a shield that she can hide behind when she puts out attacks - mostly on the Clintons and Obamas, but sometimes against the Kerrys. I get the feeling that she feels entitled to do so if it helps JRE.

[politicasista]

43. The claim does hurt Kerry

because he is been portrayed or perceived as the evil villain for wimping out or not giving a damn about Ohio while Edwards wanted to press on.

I agree the Kerry's haven't said one word about the Edwards, but it's sad that his supporters don't see it that way and supposed lose respect for Kerry.

[LittleClarkie]

52. I liked her alot in 2004

Lately, not so much.

[karynnj]

33. I assume that for the next month, a large part of what Kerry does on the weekends

will be events in support of Obama. It is also clear that he is very likely to be the high level surrogate to counter the Clinton slams. (You need someone with credibility to go against Bill Clinton) I assume that just as we had posts of him supporting Corzine in 2005 and all the 2006 candidates, we can and will put those Kerry posts here. It is what Kerry is doing. As always, many will be in parallel on GD-P.

This IS what Kerry has decided to do and it is a high stakes move. I listened to some coverage yesterday and it was disgusting. (Donna Brazille was the sane person, pointing out that Kerry is a big deal and mentioning his ability to raise money. The vile Joe Klein (I assume I can call him vile) practically spit out JK's name said that his endorsement didn't matter - unlike those of labor unions, that can provide phone banks and Emily's list that raises money. I have a feeling that Kerry in his calls to action has done more than either of them.) He may have impacted the VA primary last time.

[Dr Ron]

46. Fortunately it is not up to you to ban areas of discussion

Support for Kerry goes beyond support for the individual. Kerry has certain positions which caused many of us to support him. Obama comes closest to those positions so naturally many here are going to be interested in him. Obama also comes closest to Kerry's philosophy of the role of government, while Clinton and Edwards have quite different views. Some might see this differently, but it is perfectly natural that many Kerry supporters would not be attracted to the candidate who is most like him.

If there was ever any question before if discussion of Obama was appropriate here, Kerry's endorsement of Obama has settled the issue. If Kerry had endorsed someone else I'd be surprised but I wouldn't become unglued, and I certainly wouldn't enter comments here or elsewhere critical of his decision.

[JI7]

2. SC is a major Primary state, and Kerry doesn't owe Edwards anything

[LittleClarkie]

3. Why do you think that he, and not Obama, decided when and where?

It's Obama's campaign after all.

[saracat]

17. I hadn't thought of that .it just seemed so "mean".And I don't think of JK that way.

[kerrygoddess]

7. The media says the Obama campaign decided on where

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/01/how_kerry_came_to_endorse_obam.html#more

I don't believe it was Kerry's choice at all. Politics ain't nice. That is the bottomline.

[saracat]

10. Thank you Pam.That is reasonable.

[kerrygoddess]

11. Chin up...

We'll all be backing the nominee soon enough. :)

[sandnsea]

15. South Carolina is the next primary, that's why

This is about fighting Clinton corruption - NOT JOHN EDWARDS.

[kerrygoddess]

18. I don't think Kerry's endorsement of Obama

Was an indictment against Clinton, considering he most likely had some discussions with her and her campaign as well.

[sandnsea]

21. I didn't think you would n/t

[kerrygoddess]

30. I don't have issues with any of the candidates

They are all good.

[Inuca]

37. Not an indictment

but a clear show of preference. With very clearly articulated reasons for said preference, some of which do not throw a very favorable light on the Clintons and their MO.

[karynnj]

40. It was not an indictment of either Clinton or Edwards,

but it clearly said that he was endorsing Obama because he saw Obama as the only one who could create the huge change needed. Consider that he didn't opt in himself partially because he had doubts in being able to heal the divisions caused by the loss in 2004. When you consider that what he is saying is that we have an extraordinary opportunity with Obama to create real change. The messenger matters. In Obama you have a conciliatory figure who with his eloquence and unique circumstances can reach people here and abroad and start a new era.

At the NYC book signing, speaking of 2008, Kerry spoke of how the winner in 2008 has an enormous chance to be a great President of FDR's stature, because of the enormous challenges that have to be addressed and the changes made. At the time his comment that he did think of that as he decided not to run seemed not to follow. I knew he was confident in his abilities and that he was at least as well prepared as anyone - thinking that this would be a time where you could be an all time great president would be a driving reason to stay in, not get out. But if you look at his leadership on Kerry/Feingold and other things that needed to be done, it seems that, just as in 1971, he did things that as he said then in the Safer interview may make it impossible to have enough people happy with him. But, they were important to do.

To do what is needed, the partisanship needs to end. The Edwards campaign is fueling confrontation, and disparaging any reconciliation. The partisanship increased enormously during the 8 Clinton years - though it was more the Republicans than Democrats, they were not the right people to change it then and now they start out hostile. They are after alla campaign where a top person endorsed swiftboating (Wolfson).

[Inuca]

44. What do you mean by

Wolfson endorsed swiftboating? A very unpleasant smirking character, but I do not know about this. Great post, by the way :-)!

[karynnj]

47. He made a comment in a CNN article that it worked

and Democrats needed to consider it. (I'll look to find it) and Thanks.

[kerrygoddess]

49. I don't see that Wolfson said anything

JK himself hasn't said. We all know the damage down by the swiftboaters and we do need to consider it. The Repugs WILL go after Obama if he is the nominee. Or they WILL go after Clinton if she is.

Nothing wrong with stating the obvious and certainly not an indictment on JK as he talks about this himself.

[Inuca]

36. Exactly

Short of a miracle, and I cannot imagine what that would be, Edwards is no longer a real player in the race. I understand that this is hard and painful to accept for loyal supporters, but it is still a fact. The various speculations that he stays in in the hope that somehow either Obama or Clinton would implode, just do not make sense to me. If it happens, than the non-imploding one is the nominee, period. I just don't see how Edwards would significantly benefit from one of the other two suddenly collapsing. Anyway... the point I wanted to emphasize is that indeed this is about Clinton, NOT about Edwards.

[MH1]

23. Well, if John Edwards or Elizabeth Edwards feelings are hurt

too bad. They had it coming.

But I don't think Kerry did it for spiteful reasons at all (he is a much, much better person than I am). There are clear reasons to believe that Obama is the right candidate at this time. Just because you don't see those reasons doesn't mean they don't exist.

For example, there's the positive message of the Obama campaign; the emphasis on open government and civic engagement; the call to service; along with a lot of commonality of approach to the liberal laundry list issues (health care, environment, Iraq, etc). Obama's message is an entirely different message than the message of conflict that Edwards is putting out. For me it seems a natural fit for Kerry - the same things I like about Obama are some of the most important things I like about Kerry.

saracat, I am sorry if your feelings are hurt by this endorsement. But I wish you would reflect some on Kerry's reasons. Listen to his speech today - or read the text if you can't bear to watch the speech - and please listen with your heart to what Kerry is saying. I don't ask you to agree with it. I do ask you to listen and try to respect where he is coming from.

[saracat]

31. I am coming to the conclusion I may not be voting for Prez in the GE

as I have said I am giving some thought to Hillary but am not sure I can do it. Much of what she represents horrifies me but at least she fights, even if only for herself most of the time.I will never even consider Obama and I have done my research. I did reread Kery's speech and have found nothing of substance in it to sway me to Barak. I think I agree with Edwards, the system is "broken" and I may not be playing much longer.This isn't meant to be whiney but I am tired oof disappoointment .I am tired of working hard and not making a difference. And I do not like what I see of the Democratic Party.This may be the end of the road. I will support John Edwards till he says no more. Nobody else gets to make that decision.I admire both John Edwards and John Kerry for taking crap and staying involved but sadly it appears my fortitude may not be as great.Unfortunately I must hang in for longer than I would like but I do have "loyalty", unappreciated a quality as that is, and I have promises I must honor and unlike others, people I feel I "owe" something to.It is only after I repay those debts that I can leave. Maybe tommorrow will be a better day. I can always dream.I would be happy to wake up and think I am an idiot! And it could happen.I have overreacted before. But as Little Clarkie said, I am caught between two men I admire and it really hurts!

[Inuca]

39. I am sorry

I truly am :hug:

[MH1]

42. So you would rather have any republican than Obama or Clinton?

If a republican is elected in 2008, you can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye, and settle in for a long hard struggle - and losses in the struggle - for all the things John Kerry stands for - cleaning up the environment, expanded access to affordable healthcare, expanded civil rights, better opportunities for disadvantaged classes, a more fair and humane role for America in the world.

Instead, you can look forward to:

* doctors thrown in jail for performing abortion
* increased bans on same-sex marriage, possibly even an anti-gay constitutional amendment
* more nuclear and coal subsidies
* further erosion of consumer protections
* further subsidies to agribiz at the expense of small, local, and organic farming

and the list could go on. Weren't the horrors of 8 years of BushCo enough? Why threaten to withhold your vote? By withholding your vote, you are de facto casting that vote for the republican in the race.

If 600 more* people in Florida had made it to the polls in 2000 to vote for Gore, we'd have a very different world today.

As Kerry said, any one of these candidates will represent us well. Sorry, I don't any honorable motive to vote for a republican if one's favorite doesn't get the nomination.

* edited for clarification

[ginnyinWI]

25. one of the first things he said in his speech--

He said that he respects all of the Dem candidates and that any of them would work hard for America if elected. He's endorsing Obama, it seems to me, because he feels that Obama is right for the times, what the country best needs now, particularly to help resurrect our image overseas. He mentioned being in Africa and Indonesia and getting a different perspective.

I don't think it's because he thinks Obama is the only good candidate. Because he said the opposite. The media is spinning this as a slam against Edwards and/or Hillary, but that doesn't mean that it is. That wouldn't be like JK at all---the John Kerry that we know is a loyal Democrat to the core and doesn't go around dissing anybody unless they have an "R" next to their name, and even then, he just pokes fun at them mostly.

[PresidentObama]

26. Kerrycrat here who always supports Edwards: He's free to endorse anyone!!

I respect and admire his choice, and I'm glad Senator Kerry made it a point of endorsing someone. I'm glad he did. It wasn't a slap in the face of Edwards. He didn't owe John anything, and John wasn't really expecting his endorsement anyway.

And it was in South Carolina because that's the next big test for him.

[karynnj]

32. The fact is that is where the next primary is

To be effective, the endorsement had to happen in this time frame. HRC has Bill Clinton out there as a major surrogate making the claim that Obama does not have the experience. That is the message that will be heard from now until February 5. Kerry is one of the few people with the standing to counter that at all - the other is Gore. In a way, this is more similar to what Kennedy did for Kerry. Dean was claiming that he (alone presumably) represented the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. He also had Gore and Harkin. Kennedy contradicted the claim.

Kerry's endorsement says that he thinks only Obama can unite the country. Edwards is running a campaign that is divisive by nature in 2008. In 2004, Edwards, like Kerry, was running a positive campaign that wanted to bring the two Americas together. I don't think this is personal - as much as it is that Kerry is likely not impressed with the new aggressive Edwards. Could you picture Kerry saying of a Democratic opponent that "she has no conscience"? Edwards never said that of Bush. Once you say things like that how can you ever get the support of people who admire and like her? At this point, I'm not sure Edwards could get the undivided support of the Democrats, much less the Republicans.

Edwards was born in SC, but basically grew up and represented NC.

[Dr Ron]

45. I doubt that was the main consideration

I think this is purely because of the sequence of primaries. For whatever reason Kerry wanted to wait until after Iowa and New Hampshire, which makes South Carolina next.

If there is anything to it other than than, the strategy is probably more likely based upon the fact that Edwards won in 2004. While that is obviously related to SC being his home state, it is more a matter of strategy to prevent that from happening again. It is probably coincidence, but maybe part of Obama's strategy was to get Kerry down there feeling it would help in keeping Edwards from winning there again. I doubt Kerry was simply thinking in terms of insulting Edwards in his own state.

I think this has everything to do with liking Obama better. While much younger (and therefor lacking Kerry's experience) there are many similarities between the two. Obama comes the closest to Kerry on the issues. Obama and Kerry also seem to have similar philosophies of the role of government, while Clinton and Edwards have quite different views. Considering how different Edwards current positions are from Kerry's, I find it difficult to see how Kerry supporters could consider Edwards, but of course that is your own decision. People are going to view the issues and candidates differently. However when it came to an endorsement, I'd have been shocked if Kerry had done anything other than to eventually step in to back Obama, especially with the more experienced second tier candidates out of the race.

[karynnj]

48. It might have been because of NH

It and the union's endorsement could be used to minimize the hyped (was it 2 or 3% ) HRC in NH. There was also the outrageous Bill Clinton attack on Obama. Having Kerry there helps on that.

[YvonneCa]

51. Good Morning, DUJK...

...Friends. You are all my friends here. I heard the announcement yesterday, but I've been away from my computer until this morning. It looks like it was a difficult night. :) If any of you missed Vektor's post, I highly recommend it. :7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=273x144753

Sometimes we just need to laugh and remember the family we have here. Thank you, Vektor!






I may be a little late on this, but I have a few thoughts to offer:

First, on the setting for the announcement...I agree with those here who said it was more a matter of the Obama campaign having to be in South Carolina next for the primary...nothing more.


Second, to all of you here, I am reminded of this quote from Senator Kerry:


“ There is no more important word, in my judgment, in the American language...other than love...than CITIZEN. And we have a responsibility... all of us...to be good citizens.”



I wish all of you knew how wonderful...and rare...it is to be so informed and so determined to be good citizens and make the right choice in this 2008 Presidential election. You all care. You all research and educate yourselves (and others) and make your decisions...very rightfully personal decisions...based on knowledge. That makes all of you exemplary citizens, in my book.

Many of us have been taught by our families and others to be responsible citizens and to respect others who do so...even as they make different choices than we do. I respect all here, whichever candidate you ultimately support (hopefully a Democrat :) ) because you are entitled as an informed citizen to do exactly that.


Third, when John Kerry spoke at Pepperdine, some time ago, everything about his message was about unity. It was clear from his words that a divided country concerned him. He was against impeachment for that reason...he said it would anger at least half of the country, and make it harder to unite us around important issues. I was not surprised by the Obama endorsement, because of their similarities on issues, and because of JK's expressed concerns about the need to bring the country together.

I've been a little 'iffy' on Obama's experience. But I've seen with my childrens' generation the excitement he generates about changing our country. These are Kerry's changes...becoming voting issues for my childrens' generation. I can get behind that. When I try to get my adult children to watch JK speak on an issue we care about....they don't focus...they tune it out (sorry Senator). When Obama is on TV talking about the exact same issue...they sit up and listen.

I don't have a favorite in the primary, but I value and trust John Kerry's judgment on so many levels. I don't think the decision not to run was easy for him...but he knew (more than we here) how to get things done for the country. What a sacrifice...I respect him a lot for that. 'Campaign for the Country.' Remember?

Finally, about what we say...or don't say...here. I just think one of the strengths of this group has been the level of respect we have and show to each other, and each other's point of view. (You don't need me to say that, because as I write this, everyone here has already worked out their differences out of respect.) I hope we keep that. It is what is missing in GD and GD-P. The negativity that comes from saying an endorsement is meant to slam others is untrue IMHO, and it covers up JK's unity message. There are likely to be more conflicts during the primary season, so maybe we have to be 'on our best game' a little more, but I hope we can discuss anything relating to our favorite senator and politician. He's doing good things !


:grouphug: