Survivor 21 Ep 14: "What About Me?"

[lazarus]

Jud! I knew it, he was playing all along! Brilliant performance. Winning three IC's in a row was great, but he had a great performance in front of the jury.

I was surprised Chase won so many votes. His willingness to own what he did served him well.

Jane wasn't quite as bad as I thought she would be.

Jane in no way deserved that Sprint prize. She was a horrible, hypocritical, vile person, one of the worst ever on the show. She only looked slightly good in comparison to Na Onka, who was even worse. Hopefully we won't see either of these nasty people ever again. I know Jeffrey has said Na Onka won't be asked back, as she's a quitter.

I'm surprised they didn't announce the cast for next season. Rumour has it it's returning survivors, and I'd think they want to play that up.

I like the Redemption Island twist. It all hangs on when, exactly, the redeemed one returns to the game. If it's before the F3, they may well just be a free boot, particularly if they survived an early boot and thus don't have any real alliances built. It'll be interesting, I think.

[Phentex]

1. We were pleased...

I was worried when Fabio got behind on the puzzle challenge. But I remembered his mom did well on hers so I was hoping he would pull it off to keep things interesting.

Sash. He thinks he was a player but he obviously forgot the Russell strategy doesn't translate into jury votes.

Chase. I feel like there was editing and we missed much of what really went on with him. I was glad he was straight up with Fabio at the end.

Dan. He was just boring to me. He just wasn't interesting and I didn't quite get his strategy of I'm a marshmallow, let me go to the final. (?) Yes, because people want to beat an older man who did nothing!

The thing that keeps Survivor going is their ability to mix it up with new rules, new ideas and new twists even if some of them piss us off, lol.

I'm pretty sure they aren't going to stand for quitters again!

[lpbk2713]

2. One thing worked out as I expected.

Sash didn't get a single vote. I'm glad the jury saw him as the same weasel I did.

And I agree re Jane. Jeff said the vote was historic and overwhelming. I thought
she was spiteful and was not an effective player at all.

I had an idea Fabio would win but more votes went to Chase than I expected.

I think Boston Rob, Coach and Rupert should get Survivor billing as co-stars.
They seem to get a lot of camera time on the show. :sarcasm:

[dr.strangelove]

3. Fabio and Jane

I knew no one could beat Fabio. The only way to win was to get him out after Jane, and he won out challenges. to be honest, I would not have voted for him had he not won those three in a row. That is what made me glad he won. He played himself in. Sash, another great "outwit, outlast" player who forgot that "outplay" includes the social game. I give him credit for losing his entire alliance yet still getting to the final 3. But along the way he burned all of his bridges. I also was glad to hear about Brenda turning on him. It explained why he did not give her the idol. I wondered about that.

Chase, he had maybe the best final tribal ever. It almost won him the game. Just as Amanda twice showed how NOT to do final tribal, Chase showed how to do it. His only mistake was letting Marty get to him. His fight with Marty should have been handled as a brush off. He should have said, "Marty, the dumbest person in the game is you if you think I am going to play this game with you hear. You lost and I beat you, deal with it and give up the sour grapes!"

Still his opening of, bring it. I own up to what I did, but I did it because it was a game, was almost as good as Todd in China. Though Todd won more because Amanda lost at tribal. Chase almost won me over there. Had Fabio been gone, I would have given it to him over Sash or Dan.

On Jane, I could not disagree more Laz. She was simply a great player and a funny person. She was as real as they get. She got hurt when the people she put her faith in stabbed her in the back. Thats not being a hypocrite, its being real. I don;t see her as vile or nasty, I see her as a tough lady who lost a husband, raised a kid and runs a business, so she brings a normal amount of baggage that a person her age has to the table. I'm glad most of the viewers don't agree with you, because I was hoping she would get that prize. I even voted her once myself, and I rarely vote for that prize. I never saw a single piece of vile or horrible behavior. Anyway, to each his own, but I like Jane.

For next year. I like the idea of Redemption island, and that future quitters won't get on the jury unless they manage to quit for a good reason. I wish it was all quitters. They had to change it because Jenna quit because her mom was sick and they would not want to appear to hurt someone in that boat. But I trust MB to only ban real quitters, people that give up, rather than are forced to quit due to their real life throwing a change at them.

I almost hope we don;t see the rumored return of two past survivors, but if we do, so be it. I think the show is starting a fast decline. I would be surprised if we get 3 more seasons.

[lazarus]

4. Jane

you have to have watched the secret scenes and read the interviews to get the full Jane effect, but there was plenty of nasty on display before that.

Just off the top of my head, with no research:

She regularly stole eggs to feed herself and Chase. She also held back fish to feed the two of them. That's why she was so distraught that Chase didn't take her on the reward, the whole point of feeding him was so that he'd win and take her.

Her constant nattering about being from North Carolina, and subsequent smack talk about New York, etc., gave off a real rural vs urban snobbery.

She did something worse than Na Onka, imo. Na Onka chose to go on reward, knowing she was leaving in a few hours, instead of giving it up to gain rice and a tarp for the others. Jane put out the fire and hid the flint. That means Na Onka made a choice that would have left the others exactly where they started, whilst Jane hurt the others through spite and meanness because they had the gall to play the game.

She to this day thinks Na Onka is an okay person, while Sash and Chase and Marty aren't. Weird set of values there, Jane. A thief and a selfish quitter over three guys who just wanted to play the game as hard as they could. But thievery of food doesn't bother Jane at all, since she did it herself.

She basically did everything she could at Ponderosa to swing the vote to Jud. While I appreciate that, she went beyond anything I've ever seen in the Ponderosa videos.

Maybe this is a Rupert/Russell thing. I never understood how people bought the storyline the editors were telling us of those two, while ignoring all the nasty things they did, until I realized that most people just plop down and watch for an hour and that's it, while I read interviews and watch secret scenes, etc. The one season I took off from doing that, Samoa, I, too, bought the storyline and thought Russell should have won.

(BTW, supposedly, rumour has it, there was an incident the night Jane was voted off. She accused Sash of offering to pay off her mortgage if she swung votes to him. Jeffrey stopped the cameras and consulted with producers for ten minutes, before just continuing on.)

(Also BTW, the final votes were all the old Espada plus Benry for Jud. Or all the women minus Holly for Chase.)

[dr.strangelove]

5. jane

I'll be honest, I did not watch this season as religiously as others, so I am happy to admit that I might have missed something on Jane. But what I saw, while certainly not an overtly nice person, I did not find her nasty. Just someone who was real. He vigor and assertiveness was appealing. I've never understood the concept of having to be nice about the game. If her plan to have Chase keep her involved taking eggs for her and him and taking fish for them, I'm all for it. Even more reason for her to be pissed at him though.

As for her rural vs urban snobbery, being a NYer, I love that. It makes me laugh how many people from rural areas think less of NY. I find it slightly funny and it does not turn me off at all. I don;t think she was meaner then NaOnka. I'm fine with playing the game to win, but it seems like Jane's taking food was for a reason while Naonka was just to be mean. On the fire, by that point she knew she was going home. thats why I never would tell before tribal.

I would like to go check out what Jane did at the Ponderosa to swing the vote to Jud.

Also, I am real interested in the Jane/Sash mortgage rumor. That sounds interesting.

anyway, not a great season, but it had some good moments. As always, I enjoy discussing it with you Laz. Hopefully things will work out quickly in my home life and we will have some more personal time.

[lazarus]

6. turns out

the original vote tallies were wrong. The latest tallies, based on various interviews, have Chase getting Holly, Jane, Brenda and Alina. According to Jud, Brenda and Alina both said they were going to vote for Chase because they thought nobody else would. Nobody knows if that's true or not.

Holly said in an interview that she voted for Chase purely on two things: His FTC performance, and she thought Jud got "lucky" in winning three ICs in a row. Right.

As for Jane, I don't have a problem with playing hard, but something about her turned me off from the beginning, and it just got worse and worse as the season rolled along and she kept doing nasty things and more things were revealed.

Every "fan favourite" has been created by editing for the most part, but this was the most egregious example, IMO. They could have given fan favourite to virtually anyone in the cast, and they chose Jane, despite the horrid things she did, and I question why they did that.

And I do hope things clear up for you, as I enjoy our discussions, especially when we disagree. :hi: