Coercion at Town Meeting

[YankeyMCC]

I'm a Town Meeting member in my hometown. Last night we were in session and I've mentioned here before that the Town Moderator invites preachers to come give an invocation as part of the opening of each session.

There is a selecwoman who leaves during every invocation and last night we had a rather right wing Evangelical xian preacher (he quoted reagan and gw in his invocation) give what most of us thought was an overly long speech. But also we had two men standing in the balcony hold signs "Stay and Pray"

Apparently this was targeted at the selectwoman who leaves. She never has made a big deal about this she simply and quietly steps out after the signing of the national anthem. But with our town facing increasing financial challenges, risking losing our library accreditation, risking going below minimum manning for firemen and police, maybe losing a fire station and dealing with a particularly thorny large land development issue...these people are focused on the private religious behavior of one selecwoman. I don't know if she is a theist but I do know she comes from a Jewish family and these men were xians.

These men have the right but they might as well have been protesting democracy in my opinion. I was happy to hear a more evolved spectator in the balcony challenged them and spoke to them the way I would've liked.

(Personally I just stand with my arms folded while the praying is going on.)

[trotsky]

1. Yikes, I don't know how you can stand it.

I'd go crazy. Maybe you could meet privately with the woman and discuss some options for keeping the meeting focused on town business?

[YankeyMCC]

2. I hope to someday

submit an article to do away with the invocation. It would be too soon and to far for someone as new to TM to try now. But several of us approached her at the break and offered support. I may start walking out with her, but I want to talk to her about that first. She's chosen to be quiet about her abstention I would not want to turn it into a bigger distraction unless she felt it was time and necessary.

[fshrink]

3. Religions

live off of, and reproduce through, decay, which they therefore foster.

[YankeyMCC]

4. And the adventure continues

Perhaps I should not have done this because now I'm worried I've unnecessarily escalated an issue.

But I called the minister that gave the invocation that night and asked, very calmly and politely. "Are the men who held the signs at the Town Meeting Monday night members of your congregation?"

He said "no" but sonovabitch if he didn't get really upset and defensive.

"Where do get off implying I had something to do with this?!" he said.

I didn't imply anything, just asked him a question.

"It could've been anyone in the audience!" he said.

I was reminded of watching the detectives on "Law & Order" interrogate a perp. You know when they get the clue that someone is guilty when they overreact, get overly defensive.

Not always true of course, but still...

And he tried to bait me, "What if the answer had been yes." I just said if the answer's "no" then there's nothing more we need to talk about.

on edit: just noticed I apparently can't type a coherent sentence today. Fixed a couple words and added some missing words.


He hung up on me after I asked him if it was a problem simply to ask him a question.

[beam me up scottie]

5. Typical.

I would bet that not only was he aware of the intentions of the men but had also approved of the signs.
It seems as though others have voiced their disapproval and now he is trying to cover his own ass.
And just like a schoolyard bully, you get him alone and he wets his pants.
I wouldn't worry about escalating this, it sounds like someone beat you to it.
And even if you did, good for you!
I cannot tell you the number of times I have been outnumbered and wished I had just ONE other person to back me up, but there was no-one.
That is EXACTLY what they counted on and why they felt comfortable doing this to that poor woman, they figured she was alone and vulnerable and they could intimidate her.
I'm damn proud to know you Yank!
:applause:

[trotsky]

8. Bwah ha ha ha ha

just like a schoolyard bully, you get him alone and he wets his pants.

:rofl:

That is so fucking funny. Mainly because it's universally TRUE - you get any of these religious bigots one-on-one and they fold like an origami duck. Weasely cowards.

[beam me up scottie]

10. They remind me of hyenas.

Did you know that hyena pups will kill and eat their siblings?

[trotsky]

11. I did not!

Did you know that hyena pups will kill and eat their siblings?

So they're like atheists, are they? ;-)

[beam me up scottie]

12. Well, I really am trying to eat only other people's babies.

As a female, it just seems like way too much work to give birth to something that will end up being nothing more than an hors d'oeuvre.
:evilgrin:

[fshrink]

6. Yep.

A little resistance is all it takes. Good move.

[BiggJawn]

13. So who invited him to give the Invocation?

There's somebody you need to ask. "Preacher So-and-So said he didn't know anything about those guys, so I figured you might have some information...."

Do you have rules concerning public demonstrations from the gallery? Are signs permitted? if not, there's you ammo for next month when they show up again. "Have the Sgt.-at-Arms escort those gentlemen from the building before we procede, please..."

Another tack would be to ignore the fuckers and concentrate on the Town's Business. THAT would probably burn those Fundy's cookies, since they're probably WANTING to be ejected, in order to show that they're being "Persecuted for their Faith"....

[YankeyMCC]

14. Next month!?

You don't know us very well. LoL We met twice a week for several months, I think we hold the record for the longest town meeting. Last session lasted 4.5 hours we spent the entire time on a single article. There are 70 in the warrant.

The preachers are invited by the moderator and I know he did not know the men in the balcony. Signs are permitted in the balcony as long as they don't hang to far into the hall proper. These guys were leaning over a bit but their signs were not very big and there was no obstruction caused.

They have a right to be there as silly as it might be.

And unless they escalate it, they did not show up for the next session, we will ignore it.

I'm sure in a way I made that preacher I called very happy, feeding into his "persecuted xian" complex.

[BiggJawn]

15. Twice a week? Wow!

You must have a HUGE city! I lived in a City of a Million, and our City-County Council only met in full session twice a month...

Maybe somebody with a "Leave if you don't Believe" sign can show up....:-)

[YankeyMCC]

7. Now this is funny

Sorry for essentially self-kicking this thread but this Town Meeting experience is really interesting.

Last night's invocation was given by a Salvation Army Major. One of the lines in his prayer was "Please keep our minds free of superfluous information."

I had to look down and cover my mouth to keep from laughing out loud or shouting out something like..."You mean like praying or god?"

What could be more superfluous than a prayer in Town Meeting? LoL

[trotsky]

9. Give me a break!

Town Meeting, supposed to take care of TOWN business, right?

I'm sure God has great plans for your town, Yankey. You had better listen to those preachers. :sarcasm:

And maybe, if you want to drive home a point, put a little placard next to your name plate on the table saying Matthew 6:5-6.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. GMTA

Unless you read this first: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3680981