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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:18 PM
Original message
You learn something new in R/T every day.
Today I learned that the following events were probable:
1. Jews enslaved in Egypt.
2. The Roman Census that cause Joseph to go to Bethlehem.
3. The world-wide flood of Noah fame.

Yes. The world-wide flood of the OT is probable.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. While I don't believe that the tale of Noah's Ark is based on fact..
it is possible that there was actual serious flooding, perhaps the result of climate change at the end of the Ice Ages. Many world myths include big floods. Primitive peoples may well have equated their corner of the world with the entire world, and severe local flooding with 'worldwide flood'.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. And we're expected to "respect" such bullshit beliefs. n/t
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Its the "other" ways of knowing that have produced this.
And to think that he may be teaching people somewhere.....SCARY!
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. When you regard hearsay and imagination as "knowledge," there's no limit.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. They're documented
And many Eminent Historians believe they happened. They must be true. :shrug:
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Not just many, but MOST.
B-)
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oh boy! Something to look forward to!
:rofl:

Thanks for the warning. I haven't seen that jewel yet, but I'm pretty sure I don't need psychic powers to figure out who posted it.

When I lived in Egypt, I got an earful about that "enslavement" bit. It's annoying (to me anyway) that the real history of that region is much more rich and interesting than the L. Ron Hubbard-level crap we get from the Bible.

I had somebody call me an "anti-Semite" one time for posting that Jews served as mercenaries (NOT slaves) in the Egyptian army. And where did I read that? Well, for one place, in the Xians' favorite go-to ancient historian, Flavius Josephus. It's also mentioned in those, oh, 5000 years of history the Egyptians have lying around.

For Alt-History fans, the region's history could have been a lot more interesting. Egypt's Cleopatra VII almost ended up ruling Judea - she harassed Caesar endlessly to give her total control over that region. The Romans had already given her (back) Cyprus and other big chunks of real estate.

"Control" was the whole issue - the Romans couldn't control Cleopatra. They had an already bought-and-paid-for local ruler in Judea, Herod The Great. They weren't about to dump him for a woman who could do serious damage to Rome (by cutting off most of its food supply, for one thing.)

Flavius Josephus also wrote about the negotiations between Herod and Cleopatra (long after the fact, since he wasn't a contemporary). They sound pretty much like two modern CEOs trying to arrange a buyout...or a hostile takeover.

(I just recently read Stacy Schiff's biography of Cleopatra and loved it. You have to love a historian who writes: "Cleopatra probably looked about as Egyptian as Liz Taylor...")



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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well, considering "the world" was only the area around the Mediterranean
and that the Mediterranean is one of the most active tsunami prone areas on the planet, the flood is entirely probable. A large tsunami, possibly from a landslide from Mt. Etna, likely destroyed much of what was the known world at the time. The story was simply embellished as oral tradition kept it alive. They have found evidence not only of repeated landslides, but of repeated tsunamis. Noah was likely some random sailor who survived by being far enough out to sea to miss the worst of it.

The destruction of Santorini likely triggered another one. Although the Minoans had wisely abandoned their large city there, they were likely destroyed by the tsunami where they had relocated.

In other words, there is likely to some truth to all the legends, whether biblical or from Greek or Roman sources. The stories just didn't happen the way the texts say they did in order to make them fit with meddlesome gods.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-25-11 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. even that is relying largely on the English word 'flood'
Edited on Fri Nov-25-11 07:34 AM by muriel_volestrangler
to conflate a tsunami - which happens all at once, and only ever affects coastal areas - with the biblical story of steady rain which gradually swamped everywhere. There's a huge difference between the two.

And, of course, 'the world' was not just the Mediterranean; recognisable places in the Bible start in Mesopotamia, not the Mediterranean.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. "The world-wide flood of the OT is probable"
that is the one that cracks me up the most. The flood was so deep that NO land protruded above it, including Mt Everest- which is 20k ft plus high. Where did all the damn water go?
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uriel1972 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. My bwain hurts... nt
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-29-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well, thank goodness they got two of every species on that boat!
If there are 800,000 different species of insects on the planet, they had to have 1,600,000 buggies alone on that ship. That's a whole lotta critters, and they had to squeeze in with the the elephants and aardvarks and platyupuses (platypi?) and all...Still, it makes a whole lot of sense and was entirely probable, I'm sure.

:rofl:
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