Fundamentalist atheist checking in...

[onager]

And man, if the R&T crowd hears about how I spent today, I'll never live it down.

I went here...

http://www.szoborpark.hu/index.php?Lang=en

Usual Pathetic Attempt To Be On-Topic: a few months ago I was in Prague, and there is a HUGE difference in the way religion during the Communist Era is treated in the Czech Republic vs. Hungary. Hungary is still predominantly Catholic and the Church swings a big propaganda hammer here (but no sickle--sorry, I couldn't resist).

OTOH, the Czechs say their "religious leaders" openly collaborated with the Communist regime for nearly 50 years, and they are still angry about it. That may be part of the reason...other than good sense...that the Czech Republic is one of the least religious countries in Europe. And they are willing to talk about the whole story of how religion failed the country.

One story I heard in Prague from Actual Czech People: the church wanted to take over an ancient cathedral in Prague and make it a working church again. The Czech government turned the Pope down flat, saying the church was a museum and they would like to keep it that way.

Subtext: Communism isn't the only idea that belongs in the Dustbin Of History.

[Synnical]

1. Onager: My job forces/allows me to travel all over the world

I'M SO FUCKING JEALOUS!

See what a College degree does! Which most people can no longer afford. Public eduction, what?

Just sayin'.

You know I love you and your posts - DON'T STOP!

-Cindy

[onager]

4. Aw, thanks! College degree, eh?

I really appreciate the compliments (of course).

See what a College degree does!

Do you mean my college degree? I got it by going to night school while I was in the Marine Corps. Ironically, that degree is from one of the right-wingers' favorite places--Pepperdine University. Home of Ken Starr, et. al.

Pepperdine sent professors out to the Marine base at night, and I think they used it as a place to dump their most radical/undesirable profs. One of my professors was an anarchist who had us reading Bakunin and Emma Goldman all semester.

One of the most talented was a Marine infantry officer, who would often come to class straight from a field exercise with his books in his knapsack. He taught a brilliant class in propaganda and political persuasion. We did stuff like analyzing the famous St. Crispin's Day speech from Henry V as political propaganda instead of Shakesperean literature.

So overall, I don't have much formal schooling. My degree is in Political Science, but I work in electronic engineering. I was educated in that field by the Marine Corps, who had some...unique motivational strategies.

If your grades slipped you would be invited in for a friendly chat with a Sergeant-Major. He would say something like: "Your grades are down, and we are starting to think you might make an excellent helicopter door-gunner." i.e., a career field with a life expectancy of about 15 minutes in a combat zone.

[YankeyMCC]

2. Just seconding Synnical's point in her post

As you describe the attitude of the Czechs I thought about Poland, I try to follow events there a bit due to ancestry, there's a similar distrust there of at least some members of the church due to collaboration during the communist era, yet it's still a very strongly Catholic country.

Have you ever visited Poland, I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts on the seemingly contradictory attitudes there.

[onager]

5. I don't know much about Poland

But I would sure like to. I know the church moved right in after the fall of Communism and soon had passed restrictive anti-choice measures, etc. I would like to learn a lot more.

In Hungary I picked up some good books about the 1956 Hungarian Revolution. It was largely triggered by events in Poland, where large anti-Communist demonstrations broke out in the summer of 1956.

One of the books has a pretty detailed description of the U.S. attempting to prop up Cardinal Mindszenty as the leader of the Revolution in Hungary. But nobody bought that. He just fled to the American Legation, where he spent the next 15 years. There were ordinary priests and clergymen picking up weapons and actually fighting the Russians in the streets, but (as usual) we didn't hear much about them.

[awoke_in_2003]

3. "openly collaborated with the Communist regime"

No surprise there. The ruling parties have always used religion to help control the people. The church would side with the king, or other ruling party, to ensure their existence, and the ruling power enjoyed the privilege of having the church to say to listen to the ruler or burn in hell. A win-win situation for both. "There will never truly be freedom until the last priest is strangled with the entrails of the last king".